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@taulover: Personally, I feel like RP-wise we already tie things into land. As @Charax pointed out, to meet the requirements of Citizenship you have to have "land" in the form of a NationStates nation, and when a person becomes a noble they get to pick out a city that they would presumably rule over. Arguing that the Freeholder title has classist connotations from the real world is kind of like saying we shouldn't be a Monarchy because it has authoritarian connotations. As Freud probably didn't actually say despite popular belief "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

I've never thought of the nation requirement as a "land" thing, and personally find that analogy rather odd. Regional communities, or at least Wintreath, operates more like a group of people who reside in a location; it just happens that in the original game the people are called "nations." Laws treat it much more like residency, not property ownership, and generally the nation aspect is ignored or contradicted. Not to mention that Wintreath is one of the few NS communities (if not uniquely) which doesn't require a nation for citizenship.

The Monarchy absolutely has authoritarian connotations, but I think monarchies make sense in NS regions because of the integrated inherent power of the root admin. I.e., there is inherently an authoritarian aspect to conventional online communities and the Monarchy reflects that.

As for nobility, I think granting appointed noble titles makes sense in the context of a meritocracy. And sure, they're rewarded with a city, but that's reward for their accomplishments, which has very different connotations from implying land requirements for basic citizenship status.

I've never thought of the nation requirement as a "land" thing, and personally find that analogy rather odd. Regional communities, or at least Wintreath, operates more like a group of people who reside in a location; it just happens that in the original game the people are called "nations." Laws treat it much more like residency, not property ownership, and generally the nation aspect is ignored or contradicted. Not to mention that Wintreath is one of the few NS communities (if not uniquely) which doesn't require a nation for citizenship.

Nations aren't required to maintain citizenship but they are required to obtain it initially, even though citizenship is given to individuals and not nations.

You know, since we're a monarchy, I really think we're missing opportunities for all citizens to have some sort of RP noble status, and the chance to claim some small piece of land on the map. We've often had people ask if we had a regional map.

I just don't want to make it too Norse. Hvitt Ridaral and Skrifa, etc. just don't roll off the tongue nicely. Riksrad is easier for me personally, because it's very close to Afrikaans, but yeah, simple titles would be cool.

And honestly, haha, it might be lazy to just take Dragon Age's, but I'm not a fan of reinventing the wheel. They sound awesome and they're incredibly easy to get to know. Arl is already very close to Earl, for example.

I've never thought of the nation requirement as a "land" thing, and personally find that analogy rather odd. Regional communities, or at least Wintreath, operates more like a group of people who reside in a location; it just happens that in the original game the people are called "nations." Laws treat it much more like residency, not property ownership, and generally the nation aspect is ignored or contradicted. Not to mention that Wintreath is one of the few NS communities (if not uniquely) which doesn't require a nation for citizenship.

Nations aren't required to maintain citizenship but they are required to obtain it initially, even though citizenship is given to individuals and not nations.

This wasn't true for a while (until, IIRC, Chanku convinced everyone that the original intent of the change was for nation residency to still be a prerequisite, and changed the Citizenship and Demonym Act to, among other things, say that). As an aside, I still support the alternative route to citizenship of post counts.

But again, regardless, I don't think the comparison of residing within the NS region to property ownership is apt, for reasons described above.

I've never thought of the nation requirement as a "land" thing, and personally find that analogy rather odd. Regional communities, or at least Wintreath, operates more like a group of people who reside in a location; it just happens that in the original game the people are called "nations." Laws treat it much more like residency, not property ownership, and generally the nation aspect is ignored or contradicted. Not to mention that Wintreath is one of the few NS communities (if not uniquely) which doesn't require a nation for citizenship.

Nations aren't required to maintain citizenship but they are required to obtain it initially, even though citizenship is given to individuals and not nations.

This wasn't true for a while (until, IIRC, Chanku convinced everyone that the original intent of the change was for nation residency to still be a prerequisite, and changed the Citizenship and Demonym Act to, among other things, say that). As an aside, I still support the alternative route to citizenship of post counts.

But again, regardless, I don't think the comparison of residing within the NS region to property ownership is apt, for reasons described above.

I should note that my convincing other people was due to misremembering.

Based on the way the discussion seems to be going, I've broken out this topic into two new topics: one for nominations to change the Citizen title (or keep it) and one to discuss the nobility titles.

The changes for civil servant titles didn't to spark any disagreement or debate, so I'll look into changing them once we've figured the rest of it out.

The changes for civil servant titles didn't to spark any disagreement or debate, so I'll look into changing them once we've figured the rest of it out.

Ah that was a bit lost. Katie came up with excellent ambassador title names already (though Heralder might conflict with your idea of "herald" to mean "recruiter" - though in this case I think "herald" might confuse for the meaning of recruiting just in general also).