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Game Over on Round 5 Day

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Also, I'm an idiot. I mentioned scum Numbers townreading Luka but it ended up sounding saying the complete opposite of what I meant. "I don't think scum Numbers gets out of his way to townread scum Luka here" is what I meant.

I think Luka looks a bit better because of Numbers kinda jumping to whiteknight that slot. But at the same time the content Luka been posting in-thread has been significantly underwhelming for the past couple Days. I wouldn't mind this slot gone, but I am not confident on it based on the interactions Number had with it such as the post quote previously and the high place in the readslist.

That… is a fair point. It might be a throw-off that they left when they were taken out. But I don’t have much of a better idea to who could be the last wolf. Luka seems like the best candidate from reviewing older messages with him, Numbers and the rest of us.

The mini clash with Numbers later on also felt a bit weird and opportunistic of him. I don't think Luka and Numbers make sense as a scumteam unless there's some weird unnecessary theater going on and I'd prefer to lynch elsewhere? Setting up for a bus is often seem as suicidal in a setup this small (although in my experience lynching a scum this early in a game like this is actually really bad cuz having fewer interactions make it really hard to follow up on finding the second one).

While I'm catching up I'll keep my vote on
Vote: serif;

I might change if I spot anything that red flags me a bit more.

If I am understanding you here, this represents a bit of a disconnect with Luka's self-assessment. They'd offered as a defense that they would have distanced with Numbers as mafia:

Luka was my tinfoil, and I could be convinced in that direction.

I distance as scum
I havent commented on numbers once which, is sus in its own right; but doesnt allgin with my scum meta

If this assessment is accurate, that'd suggest any theater was one-sided (from Numbers). Is that what you mean to convey, ExLight? That Numbers was the one propagating a sense of animosity or "theater"? Perhaps if I am generous, I might note that when one wolf gets animated about someone else and that animation is not reciprocated, the engagement is less compatible with "distancing" -- that tends to be more mutual.

This would depend upon Luka's self-report being true. I am unable to dig and verify right now.

You use hard words. Number swinged a bit on how he approached Luka, so depends on when you're meaning it.
I'm not comfortable making judgments based on Luka's self-meta because if someone is aware enough to describe their meta as scum then they can easily fake their town meta since they know what to avoid. This would be just WIFOM and I'm uncaring about this comment in particular. Luka's posts are very scummy to me, what is making me townlean them very slightly is how Numbers deals with this slot (at first kinda whiteknighting it, and later on clashing a bit with them probably as an attempt to start a wagon).

My blanket assessment of Luka would be that their posts have gradually declined toward a classical mafia archetype. After a hot start, they have drifted much more out of view (and in alignment with a member of the mafia being mechanically outed, so that's not ideal). At face value, I think they're wolfy.

With respect to Numbers interactions, I can find an argument in either direction if I want to. I think ExLight did well to discuss an interpretation that is favorable for Luka. I covered a contrary view earlier, in which it seemed that Numbers was antagonistic to Luka but also listed them as a town read (i.e., potentially establishing distance but without the threat of an actual bus).

@JaggedJimmyJay
What was your opinion on Bob on D1? You seemed a bit avoiding his slot, despite you two seemingly knowing each other somewhat well.

I know Bob very well (albeit in a different username). I didn't have a clear read on them on Day 1, because they were playing low-key and close-to-the-vest. However, I thought I saw the kernels of meaningful solving (and from a uniquely Mac mindset, the other Bob body). I place value in their perspective and in the absence of concrete suspicion wanted to give them the chance to develop their impressions and make waves. I didn't want them voted out, at least not that early.

IMO him dying that Night makes the lack of interactions between you two fairly underwhelming, are you able to see that?

You use hard words. Number swinged a bit on how he approached Luka, so depends on when you're meaning it.
I'm not comfortable making judgments based on Luka's self-meta because if someone is aware enough to describe their meta as scum then they can easily fake their town meta since they know what to avoid. This would be just WIFOM and I'm uncaring about this comment in particular. Luka's posts are very scummy to me, what is making me townlean them very slightly is how Numbers deals with this slot (at first kinda whiteknighting it, and later on clashing a bit with them probably as an attempt to start a wagon).

To be clearer, I don't mean necessarily that we need to trust (or distrust) Luka's self-meta. Rather, if it is true that Luka had nothing to say about Numbers, that could work against the [potential distancing] theory that could be tacked to Numbers' treatment of Luka. It'd be odd to have totally one-sided distancing.

Leesbra how did you manage to set it so your pronouns show up below your avatar when they don't for other users? Almost everyone has them listed but I have to click their profile to see them. 

IMO him dying that Night makes the lack of interactions between you two fairly underwhelming, are you able to see that?

I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean. Them dying as someone that I know might make me look goofy. I can't really speak to the "degree of interaction", as I think Bob and I interacted a decent bit even without necessarily taking hard stances. I don't really fault you for that impression based on those soft stances. MacBob and I go way back and tend to treat each other with care.

Leesbra how did you manage to set it so your pronouns show up below your avatar when they don't for other users? Almost everyone has them listed but I have to click their profile to see them.

Honestly, I do not remember how. And also i’ve seen that it only appears (atleast for me) on PC, which I rarely am on here with.

IMO him dying that Night makes the lack of interactions between you two fairly underwhelming, are you able to see that?

I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean. Them dying as someone that I know might make me look goofy. I can't really speak to the "degree of interaction", as I think Bob and I interacted a decent bit even without necessarily taking hard stances. I don't really fault you for that impression based on those soft stances. MacBob and I go way back and tend to treat each other with care.

Yea, it's why you both have this sorta relationship that the lack of back and forth is a bit underwhelming. 
I think you both knowing each other well generates a sense of expectation on you having more solid reads on each other or at least boncing some ideas off each other. Him dying when you've actively decided to give him some time/space to do their own thing creates this sort of distancing from their death, since there's not much for us to work with. It also makes so he doesn't have a strong stance on you to be used as a legacy.

On a completely unrelated note, I'll be running a game in the near future (likely starting in 3-4 days). It will be a large-but-fast game with non-standard mechanics and some weird thematic flourishes (based on the show Severance). You're all invited if you like. The folks in this game have generally been very good vibes, and that's the most important thing to me. No pressure at all, just thought I'd toss out the invite. I can provide a link if folks desire.

Does scum in Wintreath usually have access to chat during the Day Phase? Or is it Night only?

Does scum in Wintreath usually have access to chat during the Day Phase? Or is it Night only?

(I know rules say mafia has day chat but I don't know if it means, like, the thread or the scum chat)

Yea, it's why you both have this sorta relationship that the lack of back and forth is a bit underwhelming.
I think you both knowing each other well generates a sense of expectation on you having more solid reads on each other or at least boncing some ideas off each other. Him dying when you've actively decided to give him some time/space to do their own thing creates this sort of distancing from their death, since there's not much for us to work with. It also makes so he doesn't have a strong stance on you to be used as a legacy.

I don't really have anything to say about Bob dying other than that it's a bummer. It would have been nice to have someone that I know and knows me deeper into the game, especially as the pace has gone stale. Maybe the mafia thought Bob was a power role candidate.

As for developing solid reads -- not in this case. We know each other very well, but that doesn't quite mean we read each other well. Bob in particular takes on many different forms and metas (something I alluded to earlier in the game), and sometimes it takes a little time to get a strong grip what they're up to. To my memory they don't often give a strong read on me either, at least not until deeper in a game. We've both fleeced each other many times over.

@JaggedJimmyJay
What was your opinion on Bob on D1? You seemed a bit avoiding his slot, despite you two seemingly knowing each other somewhat well.

I know Bob very well (albeit in a different username). I didn't have a clear read on them on Day 1, because they were playing low-key and close-to-the-vest. However, I thought I saw the kernels of meaningful solving (and from a uniquely Mac mindset, the other Bob body). I place value in their perspective and in the absence of concrete suspicion wanted to give them the chance to develop their impressions and make waves. I didn't want them voted out, at least not that early.

IMO him dying that Night makes the lack of interactions between you two fairly underwhelming, are you able to see that?

It does make sense that if Bob dies N1 one of the wolves would know him, though once he outed himself anyone could have realised he was a strong player from his MU champs play.

The careful positioning around eachother I find NAI, after all if you've played with someone a great deal and misread them a few times you start being careful not to do so again. And we know Bob was town, if he felt like JJJ should have had a strong read on him I'm sure he would have said so (disclaimer: I don't know whether Bob did or not). Also, if you respect a player and think they're probably town, hard townreading them D1 is more likely to get them killed at night so many players avoid doing so.

Hmm, I still feel like there was missing something there.
If scum has Day chat I believe killing Bob had already been brought up which is why Number had the weird townlock read on Bob despite not echoing his reads. If that's the case I'd expect the second scumbud to maybe be avoidant of that slot, which I believe fits the bill here for a potential JJJ scumbud barely interacting.

ExLight
Caitlinuwu
Sugar Moon
Luka
Leesbra
JaggedJimmyJay
serif;

I think I'm comfortable with this readslist? Leesbra might fall into yellow, it's hard to read newer players.