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Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
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Melehan
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  • There's acting suspicious, and there's acting suspicious. Aragonn's response to my vote for him seems a bit much, especially in contrast to his response to Doc who voted Aragonn for the same reason. He's very much topping my list of Most Suspicious because of it.
    1 person likes this post: Laurentus
    Melehan
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    Aragonn
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  • No no, nobody defend me. I have 5 votes leveled against me. Let the host tell everyone my role. My death has been accepted.

    And yes, people who have played werewolf with me know that this is what I do. You know who you are. You have no excuses. Soon everyone else will know as well.
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    Aragonn
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    • To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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    Aragonn
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  • Just as a final piece of spite, I'm gonna Vote: Laurentus.
    Jarl Aragonn
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    Aragonn
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    Laurentus
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  • I'm sorry, Aragonn. I'm not changing though. If you had chosen someone other than Hydra I might have found this more believable.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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    Aragonn
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  • We'll see who gets the last laugh.
    Jarl Aragonn
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    Aragonn
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    • To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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    Imaginative Kane
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  • The way Gerrick voted has got me suspicious so I think I will actually vote to lynch Gerrick.
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    Let us not repeat the mistakes of history.

    Now tell me.  What do you see?
    Imaginative Kane
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    Red Mones
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  • I’m removing my vote.
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    Hydra
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  • Alright, I think that everyone needs to take a step back and calm down. I've been away for a while and I see a couple pages of new posts, so I'm going to have to examine everything.
    Mayhaps it actually is a member of House Valeria trying to cover their tracks.
    I totally get why you think it might be a member of House Valeria. I do too.

    As for Aragonn, IIRC, he's always super active during werewolf games, and defends himself in a fairly logical manner by pointing out Melehan's lack of evidence. It's true, both Aragonn and Melehan both don't have that much evidence to go on, but to be frank, that's the best we have. And his response to Melehan makes sense, as the best way to defend yourself is to find another suspect with more damning evidence. This is the way he plays, and he knows to vote for Valeria as he (correctly) has in previous games. Now he is Valeria himself and I'm not discounting that, but for now, I believe his input is an asset at this point.

    In my opinion, Doc had an interesting Wintermoot theory that was fairly convincing. However, I don't like how he switched to Aragonn within minutes, but I totally understand if he missed something and just wanted to look back. However, I don't really get how he implicated Aragonn in the first place. All I saw was him voting such that Doc wouldn't be lynched first round as always. :P

    Anyway, at this point my gut is still pointing toward a Valerian for murdering tau in cold blood, putting it either on Laurentus or Aragonn. Laurentus has been pushing hard to get Aragonn lynched, while the bandwagon on Aragonn has circumstantial evidence at best in my opinion. I don't see what Laurentus means by Aragonn "trying to distance himself from the Mathy kill". As I said before, I also still don't get how Doc implicated Aragonn in the first place. From there it's just been a chain of Melehan, Laurentus, Red Mones, and Gerrick, with Laurentus' vote placed (since he's always active) in a way that helps perpetuate the bandwagon (not too close to the beginning but not too close to the end to be accused of bandwagoning).

    Therefore, here is my suspicious list in no particular order:
    1. Laurentus (he's a Valerian)
    2. Gerrick (voted jokingly without much explanation)
    3. Wintermoot (Doc makes an interesting point)
    4. Doc (but he's not acting on his points)
    5. Melehan (reaction to Aragonn seems a bit off, but then again I'm not as familiar with their playstyle/reactions as I am with Aragonn's)
    6. Aragonn (he's a Valerian)

    I'm going to Vote: Laurentus. While he always plays actively and aggressively, he's a bit too deliberate in his actions, knowing the reactions he would get.
    2 people like this post: El Fiji Grande, Imaginative Kane
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    El Fiji Grande
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  • I really don't understand all the fuss about Aragonn. While Aragonn did choose to pile on HappySpin's joke Hydra vote, two votes that early in the day can hardly be understood to be a true pile. Moreover, some early movement makes sense in light of Laurentus' wise post that voting patterns help reveal allegiances. Doc's flip-flopping from Moot to Aragonn is understandable, given that there really wasn't anything else to go on. Aragonn getting a bit flustered about the vote strikes me as defensive, but not necessarily unreasonable. Had we switched his vote away from Hydra, I'd actually be more easily convinced that he's a wolf, given that such a move would be a clear attempt to distract attention from himself. Personally, I'd be more interested in hearing some analysis from @Aragonn what made him choose to vote Hydra in the first place.

    Of anyone, I'm most suspicious of Melehan, actually. I agree with Aragonn that Melahan's reasoning about not wanting to see piles form was super hypocritical and ironic, given that that's exactly what just happened, when they joined Doc's vote on Aragonn. The next few posts were just Melehan and Aragonn becoming increasingly defensive, which should reflect poorly on both of them. Following Melehan's Aragonn vote, down went Laurentus, Red Mones, and Gerrick, though Red Mones did later retract their vote. I think it's incredibly likely that there's at least one wolf in the Aragonn pile, capitalizing on the flying accusations.

    I will vote Melehan.
    2 people like this post: Red Mones, Imaginative Kane
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    El Fiji Grande
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    Red Mones
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  • Yes. The Aragonn vote wasn’t totally unreasonable, but the more I thought about it, the more I started to doubt. El Fiji your point about at least one wolf being on the pile also came to my mind, and it sort of pushed me over the edge. I was ready to jump on the bandwagon based on Lau’s point that we need to lynch somebody (he’s right). Aragonn was the popular choice, I ran with it. Now I’m thinking that wasn’t a very wise choice. Aragonn is definitely suspicious, but I’m not so sure he’s a wolf. He does seem to have a consistent play style that he seems to be following as well. For now I’ll wait to vote.
    Red Mones
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    Laurentus
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  • Alright, I think that everyone needs to take a step back and calm down. I've been away for a while and I see a couple pages of new posts, so I'm going to have to examine everything.
    Mayhaps it actually is a member of House Valeria trying to cover their tracks.
    I totally get why you think it might be a member of House Valeria. I do too.

    As for Aragonn, IIRC, he's always super active during werewolf games, and defends himself in a fairly logical manner by pointing out Melehan's lack of evidence. It's true, both Aragonn and Melehan both don't have that much evidence to go on, but to be frank, that's the best we have. And his response to Melehan makes sense, as the best way to defend yourself is to find another suspect with more damning evidence. This is the way he plays, and he knows to vote for Valeria as he (correctly) has in previous games. Now he is Valeria himself and I'm not discounting that, but for now, I believe his input is an asset at this point.

    In my opinion, Doc had an interesting Wintermoot theory that was fairly convincing. However, I don't like how he switched to Aragonn within minutes, but I totally understand if he missed something and just wanted to look back. However, I don't really get how he implicated Aragonn in the first place. All I saw was him voting such that Doc wouldn't be lynched first round as always. :P

    Anyway, at this point my gut is still pointing toward a Valerian for murdering tau in cold blood, putting it either on Laurentus or Aragonn. Laurentus has been pushing hard to get Aragonn lynched, while the bandwagon on Aragonn has circumstantial evidence at best in my opinion. I don't see what Laurentus means by Aragonn "trying to distance himself from the Mathy kill". As I said before, I also still don't get how Doc implicated Aragonn in the first place. From there it's just been a chain of Melehan, Laurentus, Red Mones, and Gerrick, with Laurentus' vote placed (since he's always active) in a way that helps perpetuate the bandwagon (not too close to the beginning but not too close to the end to be accused of bandwagoning).

    Therefore, here is my suspicious list in no particular order:
    1. Laurentus (he's a Valerian)
    2. Gerrick (voted jokingly without much explanation)
    3. Wintermoot (Doc makes an interesting point)
    4. Doc (but he's not acting on his points)
    5. Melehan (reaction to Aragonn seems a bit off, but then again I'm not as familiar with their playstyle/reactions as I am with Aragonn's)
    6. Aragonn (he's a Valerian)

    I'm going to Vote: Laurentus. While he always plays actively and aggressively, he's a bit too deliberate in his actions, knowing the reactions he would get.
    This post makes zero sense to me.

    Unless you are the Seer and can scan someone, your evidence is always going to be circumstantial.

    What he was doing was, as I've already pointed out, not just merely defending himself, he tried to find another person to point the finger at. This is one thing about his meta that I do not remember him doing, and it rubs me wrong. I would hardly call the evidence for Melehan "more damning" than for Aragonn, either.

    And then let's talk about your Doc point. Doc clearly said its because it was the second time that Aragonn had fallen on a bandwagon. This is not out of nowhere.

    And yet still, I find it fascinating how this alleged error in judgement does not make Doc suspicious, but it does make me suspicious.

    I mean, the distancing is plain to see with hindsight, as Aragonn immediately said he didn't get the Mathy kill. It's pretty well known that Mathy is a voice of reason, and again, much as with Tau, was not active enough to be on anyone's radars for a defence at night. This is something Aragonn must intrinsically have understood. It's precisely because Aragonn is so logical that this stood out like a sore thumb to me.

    And then, of the two possible Valerian he could have gone for, he went for you instead of me? I always look objectively more scummy.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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    Aragonn
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  • I was trying to discredit the accusations leveled at me. End of story.
    Jarl Aragonn
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    Aragonn
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    • To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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    Aragonn
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  • Also

    In case any of you hadn't noticed, I'm very much distanced from the region. I hardly know anyone's habits and abilities anymore. I mainly just remember those of my fellow Valerians. To insist that I knew perfectly well what Mathy would be able to do is like claiming a chimp can write comprehensive programming for a RTS.

    And yes, you always are the scummier one. I figured the odds of you actually being a wolf were pretty low, so I didn't throw shade on you so quickly. I guess my calculations were faulty. Why is it you continue to press so hard even with my fate sealed? Could you actually be a wolf? I think it's much more likely than people think, brother.
    Jarl Aragonn
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    Aragonn
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    • To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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    Laurentus
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  • I will always push hard. Just ask Doc, Gerrick and Sapphiron. I won't stop until the round ends. And what's the alternative? Say nothing and then get asked why I didn't defend myself?

    But anyway, before this drama gets out of hand, it's nothing personal, Aragonn. I believe you're a Wolf. That's just how this game rolled. I don't want it to cause a rift between us.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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    Aragonn
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  • You're not defending yourself. This has been a constant assault. And the game didn't roll this way. You've been directing it this whole day phase.
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    Aragonn
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