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the Procedural Rules Speaker and Officers Amendment
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Mathyland
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  • I introduce this amendment to the UH the changes are as follows:
    • Dissolves the Secretary Position
    • Formalizes the Officers and Offices of the Underhusen. Officers may be any citizen of Wintreath.
    • Allows the Speaker to create, amend, and dissolve Offices of the Underhusen at will.
    • Allows the Speaker to appoint and dismiss any Officer of the Underhusen at will.
    • Turns the Speaker and Speaker Pro Tempore into Officers of the Underhusen, and sets limits on their ability to amend these positions, without amending the Procedural Rules
    • Allows the Underhusen to, by a vote, establish, dissolve, and amend any Office of the Underhusen. Doing so enshrines each Office as a 'permanent office' that can only be changed by a vote of the Underhusen. (Dissolution is a bit different)
    • Allows the Underhusen to, by a vote, appoint and dismiss any Officer of the Underhusen (including the Speaker and Speaker Pro Tempore)
    • Allows the Speaker to dismiss a Speaker Pro Tempore, but has safe-guards to ensure there is always a Speaker Pro Tempore.
    • Changes the way the Speaker is selected.
    The Law
    1 person likes this post: Imaginative Kane
    « Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 07:10:44 PM by Mathyland »
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    Mathyland
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    Chanku
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  • Since I have been requested to post this information here, regarding the ideas and intentions behind these changes, here is an explanation that's a bit more long-form.

    Officers and Offices of the Underhusen
    The main purpose behind this is to give the UH more responsibilities and as a response to some apprehension from the Monarch regarding giving the Storting more responsibilities within the region. The Offices and Officers of the Underhusen give some stability to the governing actions within the Underhusen, as it doesn't rely on a position that will change each session. Officers may also be any Wintrean, but they would ideally be held by Skrifa (excepting a few positions that might be best held by someone else).

    In discussions with Taulover regarding this change, and also regarding the Speaker elections, I had proposed the following Offices:
    • Office of Information - An Evolution of the Secretary Position. They would have the mandate of the Secretary to inform people about what is going on in the Underhusen, in addition to helping write (or writing outright) articles about the UH in the Orendi, as well as releasing dispatches and news regarding the Underhusen's actions in order to increase the visibility and profile of the Underhusen.
    • Office of Legal Counsel - This is meant to be held by a non-skrifa position, as it is purposed to give impartial legal advice to the Underhusen on actions of the Speaker or Officers and bills proposed or ideas the Underhusen or Skrifa may have. Additionally they would represent the Underhusen or any Officers of the Underhusen if they are sued for actions taken as a part of their duties should they ever be sued (for some reason).

    As I stated in the Discord, there is also the potential for the formation of an Office of Records which deals with record keeping of the Underhusen (Keeping the Session Number, making sure the Law page is updated, ect.) which could be held by a Skrifa, but doesn't have to. Although this position could also be merged into the Office of Information and given to an Officer within that Office (the layout of the Office is ultimately up to the Speaker or Underhusen). An additional idea is to also create an Office of Grammar Checking, and while Mathyland already does this, it would allow the Officer managing the Office to speak directly to the Underhusen, to make sure their notes are heard.

    Additionally it does attempt to solve the issues of position's mandates just being ignored by allowing any Officer to be dismissed and appointed by a vote of the Underhusen, so if someone isn't doing their duties they can just be replaced. It also further allows the Underhusen to, by a vote, establish, amend, and dissolve offices by a vote. Offices established or amended by a vote of the UH can not be dissolved or amended by the Speaker. This also has the nice effect of allowing the Speaker (and Speaker PT) to be voted out of the Office if they are doing a piss-poor job.

    Speaker Selection
    This had some different concerns that went into it. First off, with the increased responsibility and power of the Speaker, the Speaker needs to be someone that is responsible, trusted, and can lead. Wintermoot is generally a good judge of character, as such I've trusted them to nominate someone, who hopefully would have the full confidence of the Underhusen. Otherwise it goes to nominations, and additionally the period for this is generally shorter. Hopefully this allows for some additional days, and while a few days may not help that much, it does give overall more time to the UH to discuss and debate laws and ideas.

    Further, the reason I gave it to Wintermoot is that the Monarch is the only permenant and relatively unchanging position within Wintreath. The only other positions that are permanent are the Winter Nomad and the World Assembly Delegate (by the Monarch or his/her designee). The WAD is currently elected and the Winter Nomad is a non-political position, as such neither of them are particularly proper in my eyes. Further, the Speaker position is immediately vacated at the start of a new session, as such the past Speaker is inappropriate as well. Additionally the Monarch used to just directly appoint the Speaker, so this is not without precedent.

    Finally, another reason for this is a hope for a prevention of things like we just had. As I suspect that four-seat sessions will be common, at least for the next few elections, we will likely have similar situations as we just had, and as such leads to potential politics being played in order to have discussions involving who becomes Speaker. While this doesn't generally happen, the hope is that if the Monarch chooses a decent Speaker, then an agreement won't need to be discussed or created. While I do think some politics isn't necessarily a bad thing, I do recognize that the community generally abstains from it, and as such I would like to be able to ensure that is kept.

    General Purposes
    My general purpose is to attract people the Underhusen, by having the Offices being able to increase the visibility of the Underhusen/Storting hopefully we can get more people to run in UH elections and vote in UH elections. This gives a little bit of a reward and more of a way to become involved with the Government and the UH, as losing an election doesn't mean you can't participate or help out. Hopefully this leads to people becoming more familiar with our laws (so more eyes can find mistakes), and again more people to participate. With more people participating, it will hopefully help push elections away from primarily electing people because Memes and shit, and moves the Underhusen in a more meritocratic direction, with increased participation and some minor incentives for doing so. Further this will, hopefully, lead to people running for the UH, especially for Speaker, to have a concrete agenda and plan for the Underhusen so that there is a clear plan and goal for a session to work towards. 
    1 person likes this post: Imaginative Kane
    See you later space cowboy.
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    taulover
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  • For archival and informational purposes, here is a transcript of the discussion on the #citizens-platform channel of the Discord server:
    Spoiler

    As for my own thoughts on the matter, I'm fine with the proposed officer system—it's definitely an interesting change that gives more power to the Speaker role and provides an opportunity to establish greater responsibilities and duties for the Underhusen.

    However, I'm not too keen on the Speaker selection proposal. As others have said, I think the practical result is that everyone votes along with Wintermoot's choice. This hinders people from taking the initiative and trying to become Speaker, while also potentially reducing accountability and responsibility for poor Speakers (they could claim they never really wanted to be Speaker in the first place). Chanku has said that there is precedent for this, since the Monarch used to directly appoint the Speaker, but to me that seems to suggest an opposite sign: the Underhusen of the past moved away from this system, likely for good reason, so I'm not sure why we'd want to move back.

    Chanku's alternate idea, that people simply vote against the nominee if they prefer someone else or if the nominee doesn't want to be Speaker, would require a rather large shift in Wintrean political culture toward tactical voting, which currently typically does not happen in the Underhusen. It may be difficult or unlikely to establish that voting Nay is not disrespectful to the Monarch or nominee. It also seems needlessly complex, since if this is the original intent, then a simple vote (as is present in the current system) seems far more streamlined.

    In private discussion, Chanku has told me that he drew inspiration from the German system of Chancellor selection. However, the President essentially always nominates the leader of the majority party or coalition, and the vote itself is consequently a formality. With no party system in the Underhusen, I'm not sure this would work well.

    The voting periods are shortened to make up for the added steps in the system. While this does have the potential to reduce the time to select the Speaker, I'm not sure 24 hours is long enough, considering the pace at which the Underhusen sometimes moves. And if shortening the selection period is the goal, then the total of 72 hours is still longer than the 48-hour period that would be the result of shortening the current system of nomination/voting periods of 24 hours.

    This new system also does not address the ties issue in the event of an actual vote occurring, and arguably worsens the issue by explicitly requiring the vote to be closed after 24 hours.

    That said, I'm definitely fine with the rest of the proposal, though there may be some minor issues (such as typos, inconsistencies, and unforeseen contingencies) that might need to be implemented before the bill goes to a vote. Given that the new officer system and Speaker powers seem to be the main focus of Chanku's proposal, it might be a good idea to focus on that.
    2 people like this post: Mathyland, Sapphiron
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    taulover
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    Chanku
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  • Please note I have since removed the section concerning the Speaker Selection
    1 person likes this post: taulover
    See you later space cowboy.
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    Wintermoot
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  • Just throwing something out there...I didn't want to present alternative ideas for Speaker selection while Chanku was pursuing his, but what if candidates indicated whether they wanted to be Speaker or not when they stood for election, and then during the election the candidates could also vote for Speaker in ranked order. After the election, only candidates that won a seat would have their vote for Speaker counted, and with using ranked voting, if someone's first vote for Speaker was for someone that ultimately won't win election, it'd go down their list until we reached someone that did win an Underhusen seat.

    That would allow the Underhusen to be set immediately after elections, effectively adding at least four days to the term. The only change is that it would move campaigning for Speaker to the election itself instead of just after.
    2 people like this post: taulover, Gerrick


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    Chanku
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  • While I don't necessarily object to that, I do have to state that our laws as written do not allow for that.

    You see, in order to enforce it we would need a Statutory Law as only the Storting by Statutory Law (or Amendment to the FL) has the authority to regulate and effect elections. However such a chance would be a procedural rules change, and thus require it passing just in the Underhusen. Procedural Rules also originate within the chamber they effect, and only require that Chamber's approval, to have a Procedural Rule go to the Overhusen would be technically illegal.

    As such either the Procedural Rules would have to be amended stating that the Speaker Selection is to be done pursuant to a Statutory Law and have that law around, or we would have to amend the Fundamental Laws. I'm not particularly in favor of either of these, as doing the former would create a house of cards effect, and mean that any change to Speaker selection would potentially require OH approval, which would be against the Fundamental Laws. The latter would remove some of the flexibility we have currently.

    Even discounting this the Fundamental Laws states:
    Quote
    4. Upon the conclusion of the election, the Underhusen shall, under supervision of the Monarch, select a member of its own to preside over the Underhusen. Further procedure shall be declared in the Procedural Rules of the Underhusen.
    Which means a few things:
    1. The Speaker can only be selected by the elected Underhusen after the election
    2. If the Monarch ever hands elections to someone else to handle, they wouldn't be allowed to handle the Speaker votes and instead it would require the Monarch to do so.

    Of course one could argue that the Further procedure clause could allow for this to be legitimate if the Procedural Rules states it, however there is still the issue with the requirement of it being supervised by the Monarch.
    2 people like this post: taulover, Katie
    See you later space cowboy.
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