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Should school be compulsory?
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Chanku
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  • Alright after a discussion with Wintermoot, and a debate on an IRC channel last night, I decided to make this a debate topic. Rules are the same as the other two.
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    Yuri Dolgorukiy
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  • Making it compulsory hasn't lowered drop out rates, so far as I am aware, so frankly the issue is moot. There can be a debate as to whether or not it keeps them off the streets, but in reality it really detracts from resources that could go to kids that want to learn.


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    The Golden Persian
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  •  No it should not. Considering the rise of various other forms of learning (i.e. Homeschooling, virtual earning, unschooling, etc.) and various other alternative learning styles that differ from the normal school curricula (which is rather archaic and based on an assembly line model), I believe that it being compulsory sending kids to school (at least in the way it is now) is not the wisest choice...
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    Reon
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  • So, before I start this I should brief you guys on something. My school is an alternative learning system. We do a lot of experiential learning and a lot of personal pacing stuff. Our school also has an open campus and we design our own schedules... Meaning that if we want we can have days where we just don't go into school... Often at the cost of other things, of course. Officially (by the school district's eyes) attendance at school and classes is mandatory. But unofficially it is not. We've never reported someone for Truancy and as long as you get the stupid paper from the district regularly signed, nothing awful will happen. You won't earn credit and thus graduate. But you did it by your own decision.

    So taking away from what I've seen inside of that system... Some people really do need to be forced to go to school. They have the want to graduate but not the will necessary and they really do do brilliant work. At the same time for some people it is incredibly relieving and relaxing for some people to not have to go to school and it does keep the riffraff out of class providing students who try with more focus sometimes. It's a difficult question with no straight answer... As with most things that deal with all kinds of people there is no one answer. It changes too much per person.
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    Reon
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    Wintermoot
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  • I don't believe it's a black and white issue...I think some compulsory education is beneficial at a younger level. For these kids, school is where they learn the very basics, meet friends, develop socially, are guaranteed a breakfast and lunch, and preferably are inspired to learn more in the future. However the current system doesn't make much sense for older kids, doesn't prepare anyone for the work force or life, and could use tweaking to improve results throughout the system. Here's how I imagine education.

    For children 3-10, education would be compulsory and follow a standard curriculum with the teacher having some flexibility over it. The goal of this stage would be to teach the basics everyone needs to know, expose children to a variety of topics and areas of study, and inspire them to want to learn more in the future. Notice under my system children would start school earlier. Many recent studies have shown that younger children actually have a greater ability to learn, and the competition is fierce in Japan and parts of China for parents to enroll their children in the best schools as early as possible. I think the main issue to address at this stage is how to inspire children to want to continue learning in the future. The current system does a horrible job of that. At least in US public schools, education is focused on teaching facts, figures, and rules without much effort to put them in a real-life context or explore the topics around them. This is great if your goal is to teach children how to pass standardized tests, but horrible if you're trying to prepare them for real life, to think independently, or to get them interested in learning.

    For children 10-14, education would still be compulsory, but the curriculum would be set by the student, by selecting a series of areas they're more interested in learning about, and being able to choose from the courses in these areas. This would be more like the college system. Of course the curricula would be structured so that they would have to have the right basic knowledge before taking advanced classes, but it would be possible to test out of those classes, just like in the college system. I should also point out that not all of these course would need to be in a classroom and could be online, self-study, correspondence, etc. In the final year, there would also be some required courses geared toward introducing the student to the real world, including courses on life management skills, area specialization, and even an apprenticeship or internship to so that they have some experience in a field they're interested in and can include that in any future resume. Having a life management course may sound a bit silly, but you've no clue how many colleges have them just because students coming in from high school honestly don't know how to create a resume, do a budget, or take responsibility for their own lives.

    And at 14, congrats! You've gone through the compulsory system hopefully with a desire to learn more and the knowledge equivalent to an associate's degree that you can use toward employment or to further your education more. I should point out that I also personally believe that 14 should be the age of majority, so you would have freedom to go wherever you wanted from here.

    From here on out, there would be a non-compulsory system geared toward people of all ages that would be very flexible. I think culturally one of our biggest issues is the thought that education ends when you leave school, when it should be a life-long desire that was fueled from very early on. If you felt like you needed some structure to help you learn an area, you could contact an organization which would provide you with an advisor to help you figure out how to go about it in the way that best suits you. As an adult, personally I still like having some structure to my learning, and I hate how MOOCs such as Coursera or EdX just dump a bunch of courses on their site without any guide as to even what exact knowledge one should have prior to taking the course. However, if you wanted to do it all on your own, you would be free to! You would get recognition for your knowledge by taking a certification exam, like many industries currently use...for example, the CompTIA A+ or the Microsoft 70-680. It would basically be industry-wide recognition that you know what you're doing...or if you just want the knowledge, you don't have to take the exam. It's completely self-paced, and completely up to you, but it would be available to you until the day you died.

    Just my opinions there. :P


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    Deleted1
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  • Well my opinion is yes and no.

    After reading
    No it should not. Considering the rise of various other forms of learning (i.e. Homeschooling, virtual earning, unschooling, etc.) and various other alternative learning styles that differ from the normal school curricula (which is rather archaic and based on an assembly line model), I believe that it being compulsory sending kids to school (at least in the way it is now) is not the wisest choice...

    I believe that teaching children through a monitor is not a wisest choice either...School's role is also to make children more sociable and able to build anykind of relationship...Also it was proven much more easier to teach someone while you have physical contact rather than just talking through some cold pc-boxes...

    In my opinion it doesn't have to do on how you teach someone, but what you teach to him...I believe that schools role now days is to missinform a big part of its students....
    Also the types of educational systems in Europe and in USA are different if i am not mistaken.

    For example Europe has about 6 junior years, then 3 years of High School and then 5-6 years of University. In my opinion the first 9 years of someones education must be compulsory, in order to gain the basic knowledge that he needs....Then in case they want to continue High School or not, its in the students hand!
    ...
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    Chanku
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  • Alright I see the social angel brought up many times, but what about Introverts or people whom are anti-social. Also People who are home-schooled do not get no social interaction, while it is a bit more limited, home-schoolers can get together, and unschoolers get a lot of social interaction. So the social interaction could be an incentive towards some, however in my thoughts social interaction is moot(no not wintermoot, it's null.), and is dependent on the person themselves. Also Non-compulsoary school would allow those that want to be in there to be there. Also I would like to mention that Schools are not neccessary for learning. I think we don't need teachers after we learn basics(although teachers do not have to be formal teachers, and could be parents, friends, or a computer.) we do need a guide to know how to use the information, due to the internet.
    See you later space cowboy.
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    Reon
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  • You know that introverts do still enjoy interacting with people, right... Like... Social means interaction with people... Even if you're an introvert you can like that.
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    Weissreich
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  • At the moment I haven't got the energy to type out an essay on why it's a stupid idea to make schooling voluntary. Needless to say, if it was, most kids wouldn't go. Great way to improve your country's economy, workforce, standing in the world, and secure your future.
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    Chanku
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  •  Reon, I do realize that.
    See you later space cowboy.
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    Reon
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  • Overall, I'm with Weissreich... With experience of going to a mostly voluntary school... The majority of average people really just won't go. Even if it does mean that they miss out on important shit... Like a high school diploma.
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    Reon
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  • I still stand behind my system...it's not a completely voluntary system, but I think it's much more flexible and efficient than the current educational system.


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    Chanku
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  • Reon a diploma doesn't really do anything. You don't need a diploma, Bill gates didn't need one. Walt Disney didn't need one. While I'm not saying I'll be the next Bill Gates or Walt Disney, you really don't need one.
    See you later space cowboy.
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    Reon
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  • Believe me, I'm aware that some amazingly interesting and creative people don't need diplomas in the slightest... However your average person could be well benefited by a diploma... I mean really... Those are amazingly specific set of people. I mean, you could probably list off hundreds and hundreds of people who did need diplomas but didn't get one... If you cared to learn to know them.
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    Chanku
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  • You don't need a highschool diploma at all, even to get into college(in the US), and you can take the GED to take care of no diploma. Besides some professions do not care if you have a diploma, as long as you can do the work, and not low-level jobs either.
    See you later space cowboy.
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