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Obama was the best President since Clinton.

Clinton was a corporate shill that deregulated telecommunications and created the massive media conglomerates we know today. Obama supported the fucking Muslim Brotherhood. What kind of fuckup would support the Muslim Brotherhood? We should be actively supressing and destroying politicized Islam all over the world, not supporting it! Thankfully we have been spared at least four years of future Democrap rule.

You're right, how dare he support the Democratically elected government of Egypt, America does not approve so fuck the people of Egypt and fuck the Democratic process, let's go in there and topple a government! Cause it's worked so well everytime America has meddled in other countries politics, just look at Iran.

Erdogan was democratically elected also, and now he is a dictator. Morsi would have done the exact same thing if given the chance. We must destroy islamism wherever it is no matter the circumstance. And we must annihilate the gulf states that support it. The middle east must be civilized if there is to be any peace. As for Iran, do you think Mosaddegh was some kind of lovely saint that was only doing what was best for his country and got put down by the evil British? Think again, he was a self-declared socialist and a tool for soviet control. Were he not deposed he would have turned Iran commie, and they'd be in the exact same position as they are today prosperity wise.

Who the fuck elected you to be the arbiter of the world? You and your mindset is everything wrong with America.

No, it's your peacenik mindset that will leave us all under an islamic caliphate, a fate worse than death really. Thankfully the world is beginning to wake up and turn against those who would destroy our civilization.

I'm genuinely curious why you think some parts of Islam turned violent. Why the US, France, the UK, all these countries are targets. And most importantly, why you think it is your job to police the world. Where is your outrage for the Rohingya genocide? Do you even know about it? I do. I live in this part of the world. I know people from Myanmar. I know some one whose uncle was burned alive by Buddhist monks there. Do you know anyone whose muslim? Because I do. I work with them to defend my country, I rely on them to watch my back. And so far, almost everyone I've met are perfectly normal people. People who don't care I'm white in a majority chinese and malay country. People who dont care I'm Catholic. Who dont care I'm bi. Great people with flaws and hopes and dreams. People who are just as disgusted by ISIS and extremist Islam as you are. And dont get me wrong, I hate ISIS. I hate everything it stands for. Everything it represents. But I have nothing against Islam. And to say Islam and violence go hand in hand is both revisionist and ignorant.

My muslim friends hate ISIS but they are just as disgusted by the rhetoric you spout. Of Peace as weakness. Of Islam as evil. You want an army to fight extremist Islam and ISIS? Great, I know of roughly a billion people who are hate ISIS just as much as you do. But they will turn a blind eye and do nothing because you decided to be muslim was to be inherently evil. They are people to. Its not weakness to recognize that.

I recognize that you view the middle east as barbaric. Foreign. I get it. But it is not your place to change it. Come in with an army to "civilize" people, and you strengthen what you wish to destroy. I get chills down my spine when people use language like that. "We just want peace. Agree with us entirely or be destroyed. Adopt our culture and way of life or be destroyed. Become "civilized" or we will destroy you." Where have I heard that before? "We dont hate the Africans, we dont approve of slavery, we just want to civilize them." "We just want to civilize Zululand." "We just want to civilize the Cherokee, the Iroquois, the natives." After the history of your people, after everything you've done, the atrocities you have committed, the blood on your hands, the sins you have to atone for even now in your own countries you DO NOT GET to judge us. To judge Malaysia, to judge Islam, to judge Singapore, to judge things you know nothing about and that you, arguably, created. Want to know whose fault ISIS is? Dont look at Islam. Look at old glory.

And last thing, you're right, Mosaddegh was no saint but do you honestly think that the Shah was better? And what gave the UK and the US the right to decide for Iran? To just go "No,you dont get to choose your own leaders, your own fate, your own mistakes and your own history."

If our enemies do not operate on moral grounds, why should we? Why should we cut off the heads of the hydra when we can attack its heart? America has developed into a superpower, and with that comes the right of the strong to dominate the weak. Do you think our enemies will also stop intervening in affairs? No. The gulf states will continue to do their best to create an Islamic resurgence, and we must do our best to stop them. It is time to create a new, universal world order so that our species can progress to its full potential. The only question is whether our ideals or the ideals of the inbred oil lords and their leftist puppets will prevail.

It's all a plot by the New World Order! Stop with universal orders. Those never work. The God-Emperor is proof enough of that.

This conversation is now at an end. If it continues I will purposely crash the entire forum. I have nothing better to do anyway.


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If our enemies do not operate on moral grounds, why should we? Why should we cut off the heads of the hydra when we can attack its heart? America has developed into a superpower, and with that comes the right of the strong to dominate the weak. Do you think our enemies will also stop intervening in affairs? No. The gulf states will continue to do their best to create an Islamic resurgence, and we must do our best to stop them. It is time to create a new, universal world order so that our species can progress to its full potential. The only question is whether our ideals or the ideals of the inbred oil lords and their leftist puppets will prevail.

Right of the strong to dominate the weak.. check... Fight fire with fire.. check.. Create a world order with your own country at its head.. check.. Demonize enemies who hold different ideals and may also be genetically inferior.. check..

Yep, It's about time to invoke Godwin's law.

Obama was the best President since Clinton.

Clinton was a corporate shill that deregulated telecommunications and created the massive media conglomerates we know today. Obama supported the fucking Muslim Brotherhood. What kind of fuckup would support the Muslim Brotherhood? We should be actively supressing and destroying politicized Islam all over the world, not supporting it! Thankfully we have been spared at least four years of future Democrap rule.

You're right, how dare he support the Democratically elected government of Egypt, America does not approve so fuck the people of Egypt and fuck the Democratic process, let's go in there and topple a government! Cause it's worked so well everytime America has meddled in other countries politics, just look at Iran.

Erdogan was democratically elected also, and now he is a dictator. Morsi would have done the exact same thing if given the chance. We must destroy islamism wherever it is no matter the circumstance. And we must annihilate the gulf states that support it. The middle east must be civilized if there is to be any peace. As for Iran, do you think Mosaddegh was some kind of lovely saint that was only doing what was best for his country and got put down by the evil British? Think again, he was a self-declared socialist and a tool for soviet control. Were he not deposed he would have turned Iran commie, and they'd be in the exact same position as they are today prosperity wise.

Who the fuck elected you to be the arbiter of the world? You and your mindset is everything wrong with America.

No, it's your peacenik mindset that will leave us all under an islamic caliphate, a fate worse than death really. Thankfully the world is beginning to wake up and turn against those who would destroy our civilization.

I'm genuinely curious why you think some parts of Islam turned violent. Why the US, France, the UK, all these countries are targets. And most importantly, why you think it is your job to police the world. Where is your outrage for the Rohingya genocide? Do you even know about it? I do. I live in this part of the world. I know people from Myanmar. I know some one whose uncle was burned alive by Buddhist monks there. Do you know anyone whose muslim? Because I do. I work with them to defend my country, I rely on them to watch my back. And so far, almost everyone I've met are perfectly normal people. People who don't care I'm white in a majority chinese and malay country. People who dont care I'm Catholic. Who dont care I'm bi. Great people with flaws and hopes and dreams. People who are just as disgusted by ISIS and extremist Islam as you are. And dont get me wrong, I hate ISIS. I hate everything it stands for. Everything it represents. But I have nothing against Islam. And to say Islam and violence go hand in hand is both revisionist and ignorant.

My muslim friends hate ISIS but they are just as disgusted by the rhetoric you spout. Of Peace as weakness. Of Islam as evil. You want an army to fight extremist Islam and ISIS? Great, I know of roughly a billion people who are hate ISIS just as much as you do. But they will turn a blind eye and do nothing because you decided to be muslim was to be inherently evil. They are people to. Its not weakness to recognize that.

I recognize that you view the middle east as barbaric. Foreign. I get it. But it is not your place to change it. Come in with an army to "civilize" people, and you strengthen what you wish to destroy. I get chills down my spine when people use language like that. "We just want peace. Agree with us entirely or be destroyed. Adopt our culture and way of life or be destroyed. Become "civilized" or we will destroy you." Where have I heard that before? "We dont hate the Africans, we dont approve of slavery, we just want to civilize them." "We just want to civilize Zululand." "We just want to civilize the Cherokee, the Iroquois, the natives." After the history of your people, after everything you've done, the atrocities you have committed, the blood on your hands, the sins you have to atone for even now in your own countries you DO NOT GET to judge us. To judge Malaysia, to judge Islam, to judge Singapore, to judge things you know nothing about and that you, arguably, created. Want to know whose fault ISIS is? Dont look at Islam. Look at old glory.

And last thing, you're right, Mosaddegh was no saint but do you honestly think that the Shah was better? And what gave the UK and the US the right to decide for Iran? To just go "No,you dont get to choose your own leaders, your own fate, your own mistakes and your own history."

If our enemies do not operate on moral grounds, why should we? Why should we cut off the heads of the hydra when we can attack its heart? America has developed into a superpower, and with that comes the right of the strong to dominate the weak. Do you think our enemies will also stop intervening in affairs? No. The gulf states will continue to do their best to create an Islamic resurgence, and we must do our best to stop them. It is time to create a new, universal world order so that our species can progress to its full potential. The only question is whether our ideals or the ideals of the inbred oil lords and their leftist puppets will prevail.

You either dont really believe in what you say in which case your a sad little man with a sad little existence who can only get enjoyment from sad little pursuits, or you do really believe what you say, in which case you have my sympathy. It must be horrible to carry so much hate and fear with you everywhere you go.

This conversation is over.

If our enemies do not operate on moral grounds, why should we? Why should we cut off the heads of the hydra when we can attack its heart? America has developed into a superpower, and with that comes the right of the strong to dominate the weak. Do you think our enemies will also stop intervening in affairs? No. The gulf states will continue to do their best to create an Islamic resurgence, and we must do our best to stop them. It is time to create a new, universal world order so that our species can progress to its full potential. The only question is whether our ideals or the ideals of the inbred oil lords and their leftist puppets will prevail.

It's called taking the higher ground.  Just because we have any power at all doesn't mean we need to use it to crush the enemy, let alone "dominate the weak."  Which is by far the silliest thing I've ever heard.  If anything, we need to help teach the weak to become "strong."  America by far still has quite a bit to learn, and mindsets like this are what are holding us back from being the actual best that we can be.

Right now, our country is like the spoiled youngest child that thinks they can do anything, while all of our older siblings laugh at us for how stupid and entitled we are.

It'd be kind of nice if we stepped out of our entitled and self-centric attitude and realized that the other countries have been around far longer than we have.

If our enemies do not operate on moral grounds, why should we? Why should we cut off the heads of the hydra when we can attack its heart? America has developed into a superpower, and with that comes the right of the strong to dominate the weak. Do you think our enemies will also stop intervening in affairs? No. The gulf states will continue to do their best to create an Islamic resurgence, and we must do our best to stop them. It is time to create a new, universal world order so that our species can progress to its full potential. The only question is whether our ideals or the ideals of the inbred oil lords and their leftist puppets will prevail.

It's called taking the higher ground.  Just because we have any power at all doesn't mean we need to use it to crush the enemy, let alone "dominate the weak."  Which is by far the silliest thing I've ever heard.  If anything, we need to help teach the weak to become "strong."  America by far still has quite a bit to learn, and mindsets like this are what are holding us back from being the actual best that we can be.

Right now, our country is like the spoiled youngest child that thinks they can do anything, while all of our older siblings laugh at us for how stupid and entitled we are.

It'd be kind of nice if we stepped out of our entitled and self-centric attitude and realized that the other countries have been around far longer than we have.

Age means jack shit. Ethiopia is an ancient country, yet it's poor as dirt. Our "older siblings" have created a monster in the form of the EU that limits the sovereignty of its member countries as part of some desperate attempt to be relevant again on the world stage. It is our duty to think first about what kind of threat something poses to our way of life before we think about how morally justifiable it would be to wipe it out."Islamic democrats" no different than the useful idiots of the soviet era. They're simply tools for Wahhabi oil sheikhs to spread their influence around the world.

If our enemies do not operate on moral grounds, why should we? Why should we cut off the heads of the hydra when we can attack its heart? America has developed into a superpower, and with that comes the right of the strong to dominate the weak. Do you think our enemies will also stop intervening in affairs? No. The gulf states will continue to do their best to create an Islamic resurgence, and we must do our best to stop them. It is time to create a new, universal world order so that our species can progress to its full potential. The only question is whether our ideals or the ideals of the inbred oil lords and their leftist puppets will prevail.

Right of the strong to dominate the weak.. check... Fight fire with fire.. check.. Create a world order with your own country at its head.. check.. Demonize enemies who hold different ideals and may also be genetically inferior.. check..

Yep, It's about time to invoke Godwin's law.

>Implying that Germany wanted to take over the world and not just Europe
>Implying that preventing the rise of an ideology equal to nazism and communism in barbarity (jihadism) is the same as propagating the former.
>Not using meme arrows

You either dont really believe in what you say in which case your a sad little man with a sad little existence who can only get enjoyment from sad little pursuits, or you do really believe what you say, in which case you have my sympathy. It must be horrible to carry so much hate and fear with you everywhere you go.

This conversation is over.

I find it far more liberating to think this way than when I was more liberal. I had to justify the horrible actions of people that supposedly were just outliers of a greater group. I had to pretend that the gulf states were going to accept democracy eventually, and that military intervention was never necessary, but I always knew it was true. Is it hateful to want to bring peace quicker through necessary violence than to agonizingly wait for it through ineffective pacifism? I don't think so.

I think one of the wisest aspects of American foreign policy was the one set forward by George Washington during his presidency...that America would not become entangled with the politics, alliances, wars, and interests of other countries or regions. With few exceptions, that remained the policy until World War I, and in a large part it was a major contributor to the peace and prosperity of the nation. But then we so casually ditched it after World War II...replaced with an arrogant, condescending, and often contradictory policy based around no principle or ideal besides that of our own convenience.

We intervened in nations and 'exported democracy' when it was convenient for us to do so, and befriended tyrannical dictators when it was convenient for us to do so. We funded Islamic militants because they were fighting the Soviets, never thinking that they may turn their sights on us afterwards...we supported and funded a Shah that brutally oppressed his own people, then when he was overthrown we turned to another dictator in a neighboring country and sold him weapons to wage war against that country. We then later on invaded that country and overthrew him based on false evidence, spawning a whole host of extremist Islamist organizations and leading to our current predicament. Oh, and while we were at it we turned our back on leaders who we had called allies in some cases going back decades, again in the name of 'exporting democracy'.

And yet we never seem to learn...inevitably someone in America decides that the solution to our past politicking, interventions, and invasions in the Middle East is to engage in a new round of politicking, interventions, and invasions in the Middle East. Why does America have to be in the thick of everything that happens in the Middle East and elsewhere, squandering it's time, treasure, and lives in the process? Why can't we return to the wisdom of George Washington?

I say let the Middle East figure itself out...if Russia wants to play bigshot and do these American-style interventions like they're doing in Syria, let them. Let them spend their time and money and lives for nothing in return. Let them become the hated targets of radicals that now mostly hate America...it's their foolish choice to make. Otherwise, besides trade, leave the region to its own devices...I think in time, America, the Middle East, and the world would be better off for it. It's not like anything we've done in the region has helped.

Quite frankly, the idea that lasting peace can be established by force of might has been the folly of empires and civilizations since time immemorial.

If our enemies do not operate on moral grounds, why should we? Why should we cut off the heads of the hydra when we can attack its heart? America has developed into a superpower, and with that comes the right of the strong to dominate the weak. Do you think our enemies will also stop intervening in affairs? No. The gulf states will continue to do their best to create an Islamic resurgence, and we must do our best to stop them. It is time to create a new, universal world order so that our species can progress to its full potential. The only question is whether our ideals or the ideals of the inbred oil lords and their leftist puppets will prevail.

Right of the strong to dominate the weak.. check... Fight fire with fire.. check.. Create a world order with your own country at its head.. check.. Demonize enemies who hold different ideals and may also be genetically inferior.. check..

Yep, It's about time to invoke Godwin's law.

>Implying that Germany wanted to take over the world and not just Europe
>Implying that preventing the rise of an ideology equal to nazism and communism in barbarity (jihadism) is the same as propagating the former.
>Not using meme arrows

You either dont really believe in what you say in which case your a sad little man with a sad little existence who can only get enjoyment from sad little pursuits, or you do really believe what you say, in which case you have my sympathy. It must be horrible to carry so much hate and fear with you everywhere you go.

This conversation is over.

I find it far more liberating to think this way than when I was more liberal. I had to justify the horrible actions of people that supposedly were just outliers of a greater group. I had to pretend that the gulf states were going to accept democracy eventually, and that military intervention was never necessary, but I always knew it was true. Is it hateful to want to bring peace quicker through necessary violence than to agonizingly wait for it through ineffective pacifism? I don't think so.

> Germany *only* wanted to take over Europe. Yeah just an entire continent. I call this a minor deviation.
> Every ideological movement believes its fighting a greater evil. The existence of an always greater evil is one of the trademarks of a totalitarian ideology. Not saying that's proof or anything, but it's true The fact that we believe they are evil doesn't auto-dismiss all other questioning.

I'd be way more on your side if interfering with middle eastern governments wasn't what got us into this mess in the first place.. Look at the history of "swift military action" in this country.. It has an remarkable yet alarming tendency to turn into a decades long slog through the innumerable corpses of our enemies almost every time.

Then we end up with an entire generation of children who grow up fearing the whine of a drone overhead.. an entire generation raised fearing monsters in the sky that can and do swoop down and destroy the lives of innocents on the interest of causes outside of their control or understanding.

What do you think those children are going to grow up and do? The short sightedness is extraordinary..

*walks into thread*

Ho boy.

*walks out*

Nope, I'd rather not get into this at Christmas.

*looks back, fingers start twitching*

Nope. Nope. Nope.

*sticks head back into thread*

LOOK UP ISIS'S GOAL OF ELIMINATING THE GREY ZONE (AKA TOLERANCE OF ISLAM IN WESTERN SOCIETIES). DON'T HATE MUSLIMS AND DO THE WORK OF RADICALISATION FOR THEM. ALSO PLEASE DON'T PAINT OVER A BILLION PEOPLE WITH THE SAME BRUSH JUST BECAUSE A SMALL GROUP OF A FEW THOUSAND "ISLAMISTS" ARE EXTREMIST RACIST FUCKS.

*storms out of thread again*

He'll be here all week, folks?

I like being entertained in the midst of political shitfests.

If our enemies do not operate on moral grounds, why should we? Why should we cut off the heads of the hydra when we can attack its heart? America has developed into a superpower, and with that comes the right of the strong to dominate the weak. Do you think our enemies will also stop intervening in affairs? No. The gulf states will continue to do their best to create an Islamic resurgence, and we must do our best to stop them. It is time to create a new, universal world order so that our species can progress to its full potential. The only question is whether our ideals or the ideals of the inbred oil lords and their leftist puppets will prevail.

Right of the strong to dominate the weak.. check... Fight fire with fire.. check.. Create a world order with your own country at its head.. check.. Demonize enemies who hold different ideals and may also be genetically inferior.. check..

Yep, It's about time to invoke Godwin's law.

>Implying that Germany wanted to take over the world and not just Europe
>Implying that preventing the rise of an ideology equal to nazism and communism in barbarity (jihadism) is the same as propagating the former.
>Not using meme arrows

You either dont really believe in what you say in which case your a sad little man with a sad little existence who can only get enjoyment from sad little pursuits, or you do really believe what you say, in which case you have my sympathy. It must be horrible to carry so much hate and fear with you everywhere you go.

This conversation is over.

I find it far more liberating to think this way than when I was more liberal. I had to justify the horrible actions of people that supposedly were just outliers of a greater group. I had to pretend that the gulf states were going to accept democracy eventually, and that military intervention was never necessary, but I always knew it was true. Is it hateful to want to bring peace quicker through necessary violence than to agonizingly wait for it through ineffective pacifism? I don't think so.

> Germany *only* wanted to take over Europe. Yeah just an entire continent. I call this a minor deviation.
> Every ideological movement believes its fighting a greater evil. The existence of an always greater evil is one of the trademarks of a totalitarian ideology. Not saying that's proof or anything, but it's true The fact that we believe they are evil doesn't auto-dismiss all other questioning.

I'd be way more on your side if interfering with middle eastern governments wasn't what got us into this mess in the first place.. Look at the history of "swift military action" in this country.. It has an remarkable yet alarming tendency to turn into a decades long slog through the innumerable corpses of our enemies almost every time.

Then we end up with an entire generation of children who grow up fearing the whine of a drone overhead.. an entire generation raised fearing monsters in the sky that can and do swoop down and destroy the lives of innocents on the interest of causes outside of their control or understanding.

What do you think those children are going to grow up and do? The short sightedness is extraordinary..

The biggest problems with our military interventions are how we end up playing ourselves and supporting radical wahhabi groups by "accident" because waddyaknow? Our Saudi "allies" might not be 100% trustworthy.

http://news24.com/news24/Columnists/Ralph_Mathekga/theres-something-wrong-on-main-street-20161110

http://news24.com/news24/Columnists/Ralph_Mathekga/theres-something-wrong-on-main-street-20161110

Ah, gotta love the smell of "democracy doesn't work because Hillary didn't win" in the morning.

Except that America doesn't have democracy.