Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Gerrick's Convention Proposal #2 (Houses of Lords and Commons)
Posts: 52 Views: 7043

Weissreich
  • Paragons
  • Duke of Wintreath
  • So, at Lau's request here's a full-fledged feedback and critique of Gerrick's idea. As I've said, I think this is amongst the best of the proposals I've seen so far, especially the way it includes some of the cultural aspects of the region in the political without compromising the purposes of either.

    So I know we got kind of burned out after the failure of the Open Assembly, and the Underhusen is pretty busy with the citizenship revocation deal, but I’ve been thinking about solutions to our Constitutional Convention. I’m not giving up on the Open Assembly model if that’s the way people want to go, but I figured it doesn’t hurt to give other options. Read the following in the broadest way you can, meaning everything can be tweaked to make it the way we want and that I’m just giving a very general idea of an option.

    This form of government would be similar to the British Parliament. There would be two houses: the House of Lords and House of Commons (we of course could use names to better fit our theme (maybe even just OH and UH); these are just the ones the UK uses).

    I like the current Scandinavian theme we have going with the legislative aspects of the region (and the region in general) so I think we should continue to use that naming convention. @HannahB suggested Oberhaus for the UH and Herrhaus for the upper chamber, which are good starting points, but I think we can do better. Keeping the same names... we could do that, but if we're making all this change why not revamp from the ground up?

    Quote
    The upper house would consist of the nobility, aka Dukes, Counts, and Knights (referring to this http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1223.msg14091#msg14091 (credit goes to Weissreich for bringing it up)). First of all, this would mean we would have to revamp this system, but I don’t think it would be too difficult. Wintermoot is the only one who can give out these titles, so the upper house would only consist of those he trusts and knows are experienced members. I would assume then that the current Overhusen (and probably most of the Jarls) may be knighted as they were already people previously appointed by him. The Storting could probably have the influence to recommend Wintermoot to having someone knighted to join the upper house (maybe by awarding someone a Wintreath Commendation?). To be clear, the two houses are technically equal, but the upper house is more exclusive and is put in place as a check so the experienced can block or amend the bills presented by the lower house.
    Revamping the Houses system I think would be a good thing. When we first came up with the system it was hailed by some as a very unique way of bringing people into the cultural side of the region, and by tying it in at a purely aesthetic level (I really doubt anyone here is politicised enough to abuse it) to the Upper Chamber I think we both motivate further use and activity in the Housing system and make our upper chamber something to strive for. It doesn't make it politicised, but it does make it an achievement to reach and doing so comes with a reward for the dedication and service an upper chamber member will have put into the region.

    I like the idea of Dukes and Counts being part of the upper chamber, but I definitely think we need to make that an optional thing. For example, were we to use this system I personally would find myself on the 'revisionary' side of the UH/OH line rather than the legislative side, which I'd rather avoid for the immediate future.

    Building on this, there was a suggestion (again, Hannah and PB discussed this with me briefly) that the lower chamber could give out Common Titles, names of which I suggested in an earlier post, to recognise people's contributions to the region's political scene without elevating them to the upper chamber (Monarch's prerogative). This would, in my opinion at least, provide an activity incentive without politicising the region overly, and if we play it right we can also use this as a way to encourage people to get involved in the RP's etc.

    Quote
    The lower house would obviously consist of non-nobles. It would be something that citizens have to apply for, meaning not necessarily every non-noble citizen is in the lower house. There may be some minor requirement (like 15 posts or require 5 members to support their joining) to make it so that the lower house isn’t just everyone who isn’t a noble and to prevent inactive citizens from joining. When a member of the lower house is knighted/made a noble, they probably would then apply to join the upper house (and there could be a vote or the Speaker could just formally announce them).
    The Amendment Protocol Act I've proposed in the UH seeks to introduce a trial-run of the idea of sponsorship, which you suggest using (5 member support to get into the lower chamber). If that works, I really like this way of bringing new members into the chamber - it makes it voluntary, but without putting too much of a limit on hopeful applicants. I'm sure that the active lower chamber members would sponsor most into their ranks, so there's little issue of people trying and failing to get in based on sponsorship.

    I like the idea of a citizen being raised from the lower chamber to the upper as recognition of hard work above and beyond the suggestion I made above about lower chamber titles, but again I think there needs to be an option for them to accept the title yet refuse the elevation.

    Quote
    Both houses would each be presided over by a Speaker and SPT/Vice/Deputy Speaker (again, the names could be changed… The two houses should probably have different speaker titles to prevent confusion). More officer positions could be created if needed – perhaps a secretary, whip, or devil’s advocate, though these could also be fulfilled by the speaker/vice. These Speakers would lead discussion, moderate threads, present the bills to the other house/Monarch, etc. They would be elected by their respective houses probably every 4 months or so. In my opinion, the elections should use ranked-choice voting, and the second most voted for candidate would have the option to accept the Vice Speaker position (if not, then the next candidate; and if not them, then one can be appointed by the Speaker).
    Preferential Choice voting? Instant run-off? I like this suggestion, and I like the way you're angling for increased collaboration between Speakers/whatever they end up called. This would, in combination with the lower/upper chamber meeting forum, provide a great way to keep things ticking along.

    Quote
    The legislative process would be that either house can draft, debate, and vote on a bill, which (if passed) would then move to the other house for voting or debate, depending on their motion. If the second house does not pass the bill, then they may make amendments to the bill, then send it back to the first house for the same process. Once an identical form is passed by both houses, then the bill is presented to the Monarch for Royal Assent. If no agreement can be had between the two houses, then the bill fails.
    I think others have raised concerns about an equal lower and upper chamber, but I think we can retain at least some of your suggestions here. I'd like to tie in the proposing of Bills with a sponsorship process, so that a Bill is put forward and requires support from X number of lower chamber members (and perhaps X number of upper chamber members before it can go to a vote rather than requiring legislation to proceed in parallel) before it goes to vote or discussion.

    My idea in this regard was that a proposed Bill is put forward in the upper/lower combined chamber by a member of either Chamber, then requires X number of sponsors from the lower chamber to go forward to discussion. There should be no suggestions, simply a "I think this has merit with further development" post and it's then taken forward. From there, the discussion is carried out in the lower chamber, and when the act is finalised to their satisfaction the LC Speaker confers with the UC Speaker and X number of ratifiers are required from the UC before it's passed into law (once the Monarch approves it, of course).

    In the last stage, it's effectively like the OH's duties now - they either ratify it or they don't, and it needs a majority of ratifiers to pass. If it fails to meet that requirement, the UC sends it back to the LC Speaker with suggestions, and it's improved and the process is repeated.

    Thoughts?

    Quote
    Debates and voting would have specific default timeframes (with the ability to motion to extend or expedite) -- probably quite similar to the current UH procedure – to prevent drawn out discussions and make sure everyone gives input by knowing exactly when they are able to do so.
    Again, I like this idea. Perhaps we could also add a means by which once a Bill reaches discussion, the proponent can set the length of discussion themselves if they think it merits a lot of consideration, or none at all? Unsure on this suggestion, but thought I'd throw it out there.

    Quote
    There would be two separate chambers (boards) for the houses, though a common board where members of both houses could talk about bills or whatever would also exist. This could be particularly useful in the instance where a bill needs to be negotiated. I would also assume that the speakers of both houses would interact a lot more than in the current model.
    I expanded on this in my above comments, but I think with a few modifications this system would really work.

    Duke Klause Edíl-Astos Meindhert
    Archivist Academic


    "Not all those who wander are lost."
    Weissreich
    • Duke of Wintreath
    • Posts: 1,690
    • Karma: 805
    • Paragons
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      Meindhert
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Wintermoot
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • The Greyscale Magi-Monk
  • Okay, so you fully agree with every detail of Wintermoot's statements? Understood.
    A true first in the region, for sure.

    Anyways, sorry for the delay, but it's taken some time for me to reply because today is the first day I've had an extensive amount of time to go around the forums and type out well thought-out replies.

    We have to remember that the reason that we are not a political reason is because throughout the last two and a half years, we have made conscious efforts to not allow it to become one. I remember one period where it seemed that every Underhusen election would bring a wave of new people who had not yet integrated into our unique culture and would advocate for things that would make us a more political region...it usually wasn't very fun to have to pop those bubbles, but that is part of my responsibility as Monarch and Founder...to be a bulwark against things contrary to our regional principles, such as politicization of our government. It's a responsibility that I take very seriously, especially having witnessed and been a victim of the politicization of a region first-hand.

    I don't believe that anybody currently here would seriously try to gain political prestige because we all understand our regional culture and (hopefully) agree that not being a political region is a good thing, but that might not be the case for new Citizens who would expect politics in a region in a political simulation game...they may see this system in an entirely different way than we wanted, resulting in an inadvertent shift in our regional culture. You have to also admit that even if they're equal in standing and power, the "noble" house will be considered more prestigious by default merely because it's more exclusive, and this is by design...otherwise, nobody would care to work for gaining entry into it, would would defeat the purpose of "giving the nobility a renewed purpose". It would be easy for somebody new to the region to misunderstand the reasons that it's prestigious, and work to become a noble for all the wrong reasons.

    That being said, I've given the matter a lot of thought in the last few days, and I've come to the conclusion that this doesn't mean that it can't be implemented...it just means that we have to be careful in how we implement it. I've come to realize that my real problem with this proposal is that once someone gets a title, they would be free to be part of this group of exclusive representation without being held accountable to anybody, absent a dramatic and currently unprecedented revocation of a title of nobility. We have to make it clear to everyone, including to those already in that group, that they're in it because of their continuing contributions to the region. Even if someone has done great work in the past and they're deserving of their title, they should have to continue to justify their inclusion in this chamber by continuing to do great work for the region.

    To that end I propose that the Monarchy be granted authority over the requirements of remaining a part of this group after they receive their title. My idea is to decree that every season (every four months), each member would be required to submit their deeds and accomplishments in the region over the last season to the community for evaluation, at which people could comment their thoughts on whether individuals had met this high threshold, and the Monarch could revoke their membership in this group if it was felt they hadn't met the high standards. Anyone that had their membership revoked, either by this process or just because they didn't submit this or otherwise went inactive could then work on getting involved in the region again and reapply the next season, using that work as justification. This way, people aren't allowed to just sit in this exclusive group and accumulate aristocratic power...they would have to keep doing good for the region to remain a member.

    Separately, I also propose that we do away with the proposed reconciliation process...I just think that the best way of avoiding the need for such a process would be for members of the two chambers to work together in drafting legislation before it's submitted at all, preferably in the Citizens Platform where Citizens can also have a say in the drafting process. Perhaps there could even be a requirement that legislation be drafted for a certain period of time in either the Citizens Platform or the private Storting area before it's introduced in a chamber. I think that would be much simpler than a potentially messy reconciliation process.

    Are there any thoughts about my ideas?
    3 people like this post: Weissreich, Laurentus, Wuufu


    I went all the way to Cassadega to commune with the dead
    They said "You'd better look alive"
    Wintermoot
    • The Greyscale Magi-Monk
    • Posts: 19,452
    • Karma: 9,677
    • Weather: ❄️
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Orientation
      Demisexual
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Laurentus
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • Count of Highever
  • Hmm, that sounds reasonable. I just have one question: does contributions to laws count towards that 4-month review period for those in the upper House?

    On a personal note, I'll probably forget some of my deeds since I don't exactly keep track. Perhaps it would be prudent to do what tau does and set up a CV with my signature to keep track. Oh, and this is very much my problem. I'm just thinking out loud. Disregard this paragraph at your leisure.
    « Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 08:40:13 PM by Laurentus »
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
    Laurentus
    • Posts: 8,755
    • Karma: 4,635
    • Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      The Noble House of Valeria
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Wintermoot
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • The Greyscale Magi-Monk
  • I would think that contributions to laws would count, yeah. It's just as much a thing in the region as anything else.


    I went all the way to Cassadega to commune with the dead
    They said "You'd better look alive"
    Wintermoot
    • The Greyscale Magi-Monk
    • Posts: 19,452
    • Karma: 9,677
    • Weather: ❄️
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Orientation
      Demisexual
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Laurentus
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • Count of Highever
  • I can't believe I forgot @Reon. :-[

    Still friends?
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
    Laurentus
    • Posts: 8,755
    • Karma: 4,635
    • Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      The Noble House of Valeria
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Reon
  • Former Citizen
  • Still friends...
    Though I don't like this idea... It's basically a long tweak of what we currently have with longer discussion form, less free flow, more politicization, and weirder titles...
    Not a huge fan of it...
    Oh and I hate Anglo stuff, for the most part...
    Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are.
    Reon
    • Posts: 2,089
    • Karma: 254
    • Follow the Truth, whoever that may be.
    • Former Citizen
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Gerrick
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • I don't believe that anybody currently here would seriously try to gain political prestige because we all understand our regional culture and (hopefully) agree that not being a political region is a good thing, but that might not be the case for new Citizens who would expect politics in a region in a political simulation game...they may see this system in an entirely different way than we wanted, resulting in an inadvertent shift in our regional culture. You have to also admit that even if they're equal in standing and power, the "noble" house will be considered more prestigious by default merely because it's more exclusive, and this is by design...otherwise, nobody would care to work for gaining entry into it, would would defeat the purpose of "giving the nobility a renewed purpose". It would be easy for somebody new to the region to misunderstand the reasons that it's prestigious, and work to become a noble for all the wrong reasons.
    I didn't really think about the fact that new citizens might try to change things by not seeing it as we intend it -- good point.
    Quote
    To that end I propose that the Monarchy be granted authority over the requirements of remaining a part of this group after they receive their title. My idea is to decree that every season (every four months), each member would be required to submit their deeds and accomplishments in the region over the last season to the community for evaluation, at which people could comment their thoughts on whether individuals had met this high threshold, and the Monarch could revoke their membership in this group if it was felt they hadn't met the high standards. Anyone that had their membership revoked, either by this process or just because they didn't submit this or otherwise went inactive could then work on getting involved in the region again and reapply the next season, using that work as justification. This way, people aren't allowed to just sit in this exclusive group and accumulate aristocratic power...they would have to keep doing good for the region to remain a member.
    Yeah, this could be a good compromise. It would be you who's the one giving noble titles and thus allowing into the upper house, so it would make sense that you could create requirements for and remove members from the upper house. It'd prevent people from stagnating after entrance as well as keep number of members of the upper house from soley increasing, so I'd accept this term.
    Quote
    Separately, I also propose that we do away with the proposed reconciliation process...I just think that the best way of avoiding the need for such a process would be for members of the two chambers to work together in drafting legislation before it's submitted at all, preferably in the Citizens Platform where Citizens can also have a say in the drafting process. Perhaps there could even be a requirement that legislation be drafted for a certain period of time in either the Citizens Platform or the private Storting area before it's introduced in a chamber. I think that would be much simpler than a potentially messy reconciliation process.
    A few members have stated this worry, and I admit that it could be a big problem. Everyone working together on the bill right off the bat could be a good solution. Good ideas, and thanks for giving them. :)

    I like the current Scandinavian theme we have going with the legislative aspects of the region (and the region in general) so I think we should continue to use that naming convention. @HannahB suggested Oberhaus for the UH and Herrhaus for the upper chamber, which are good starting points, but I think we can do better. Keeping the same names... we could do that, but if we're making all this change why not revamp from the ground up?
    ...
    Revamping the Houses system I think would be a good thing. When we first came up with the system it was hailed by some as a very unique way of bringing people into the cultural side of the region, and by tying it in at a purely aesthetic level (I really doubt anyone here is politicised enough to abuse it) to the Upper Chamber I think we both motivate further use and activity in the Housing system and make our upper chamber something to strive for. It doesn't make it politicised, but it does make it an achievement to reach and doing so comes with a reward for the dedication and service an upper chamber member will have put into the region.
    It seems we have the same thoughts on these. :)
    Quote
    I like the idea of Dukes and Counts being part of the upper chamber, but I definitely think we need to make that an optional thing. For example, were we to use this system I personally would find myself on the 'revisionary' side of the UH/OH line rather than the legislative side, which I'd rather avoid for the immediate future.

    Building on this, there was a suggestion (again, Hannah and PB discussed this with me briefly) that the lower chamber could give out Common Titles, names of which I suggested in an earlier post, to recognise people's contributions to the region's political scene without elevating them to the upper chamber (Monarch's prerogative). This would, in my opinion at least, provide an activity incentive without politicising the region overly, and if we play it right we can also use this as a way to encourage people to get involved in the RP's etc.
    Yeah, as I said before, nobles would apply to join the upper house, meaning they don't have to if they don't want to. The second part seems like a good idea to me (I think titles and recognition are good for activity), though I suspect Wintermoot would probably have to OK it first.
    Quote
    I think others have raised concerns about an equal lower and upper chamber, but I think we can retain at least some of your suggestions here. I'd like to tie in the proposing of Bills with a sponsorship process, so that a Bill is put forward and requires support from X number of lower chamber members (and perhaps X number of upper chamber members before it can go to a vote rather than requiring legislation to proceed in parallel) before it goes to vote or discussion.
    I addressed this concern a little above in that the two houses will now probably not be equal. I think this sponsorship idea that you're trying to pass now could work well with Wintermoot's idea above.

    Still friends...
    Though I don't like this idea... It's basically a long tweak of what we currently have with longer discussion form, less free flow, more politicization, and weirder titles...
    Not a huge fan of it...
    Oh and I hate Anglo stuff, for the most part...
    Fair enough :P

    Duke of Wintreath and Count of Janth
    Patriarch of the Noble House of Burdock
    Curriculum Vitae
    Citizen: 15 November 2015 - present
    Recruitment Contest Winner: December 2015
    Recruitment Contest Winner: January 2016
    Secretary of the 14th Underhusen: 8 February 2016 - 8 April 2016
    RP Guild Councillor: 9 February 2016 - 24 February 2017
    Recruitment Contest Winner: April 2016
    Wintreath's Finest: April 2016
    Ambassador to Nesapo: 5 July 2016 - 13 March 2017
    Jarl of Culture: 30 November 2016 - 13 September 2019
    Wintreath's Finest: November 2016
    Wintreath's Finest: February 2017
    Count of Janth: 17 September 2017 - present
    Patriarch of the Noble House of Burdock: 17 September 2017 - present
    Recruitment Contest Winner: September 2017
    Duke of Wintreath: 13 September 2019 - present
    Wintreath's Finest: September 2019
    Skrifa of the 37th Underhusen: 8 December 2019 - 8 February 2020
    Wintreath's Finest of the Year: 2019
    Commendation of Wintreath: 27 June 2020
    Citizens' Council Member: 14 September 2020 - 8 March 2021
    Skrifa of the 43rd Underhusen: 9 December 2020 - 8 February 2021 🔥

    Alder of the Riksraad: 7 June 2021 - 17 June 2021
    Jarl of Culture: 17 June 2021 - 14 November 2021
    Alder of the Riksraad: 14 November 2021 - 1 March 2022
    Regional Stability Squad: 27 February 2023 - present
    Gerrick
    • Posts: 4,099
    • Karma: 3,262
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Orientation
      Bisexual
      Familial House
      Burdock
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    PB
  • Paragons
  • Still friends...
    Though I don't like this idea... It's basically a long tweak of what we currently have with longer discussion form, less free flow, more politicization, and weirder titles...
    Not a huge fan of it...
    Oh and I hate Anglo stuff, for the most part...

    The more I think about this plan, the more I see myself agreeing with boss man here. I'm not really seeing any difference from our current system - I'm actually struggling to find a difference between the proposed house of lords and the overhusen other than the titles; Duke and Count as opposed to Peer and Chairman.  I'm also not agreeing with this fetishization over titles and nobility. The nobles I've encountered here, Pengu, Amalya, and Weiss, are literally heroes and give so much to the region. I believe conferring titles, even minor ones, diminishes the impact they've had. I'm nit saying I don't think that adding more people to the regional nobility is going to muddy the waters, I just think that being named to nobility is such a prestigious achievement that it should be handed out sparingly.

    Sponsors are an interesting idea, but one of our goals was to cut down on bureaucracy, and I'm not convinced adding sponsors to things like the Citizen's Platform would do anything but overcomplicate it. Legislators should be able to know when to begin discussing an issue. If not, then they shouldn't be legislating.

    I do thoroughly enjoy the House system. I think its incredibly interesting and I'd love to participate in it somehow someday.  I also seriously considered embracing my authority as a Jail to name some Knights of Integration as a way to recognize sccomplishments, but again, I don't want this to become the Land of Many Titles and Styles.
    PB
    • Posts: 1,760
    • Karma: 373
    • Paragons
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Laurentus
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • Count of Highever
  • Hmm, fair points about the upper chamber. In all my time here, the OH hasn't been the part of our legislature that's actually broken. Personally, I wish they'd involve themselves more, but that can happen through various means.

    On the other hand, I think people are missing some excellent opportunities with the lower chamber here, since there wouldn't be elections, and the fact that you'd need to get in through invitation would add on well to the idea of being a meritocracy. Instead of the sponsor system, I prefer having it occur through a vote, however. In other words, you have the entire assembly view someone's application to join, and the entire assembly gets to ask him questions to see his knowledge of the laws, how quickly he learns, and how active he is during that time. Then they retire and discuss among themselves whether this person should gain entrance.

    We could even avoid this becoming a popularity contest, by for instance giving the monarch's vote more weight than any other member for deciding whether said person would gain entry to the assembly.

    And then we can cut out the upper assembly completely and just give the monarch the power to veto bills.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
    Laurentus
    • Posts: 8,755
    • Karma: 4,635
    • Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      The Noble House of Valeria
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    PB
  • Paragons
  • Hmm, fair points about the upper chamber. In all my time here, the OH hasn't been the part of our legislature that's actually broken. Personally, I wish they'd involve themselves more, but that can happen through various means.

    On the other hand, I think people are missing some excellent opportunities with the lower chamber here, since there wouldn't be elections, and the fact that you'd need to get in through invitation would add on well to the idea of being a meritocracy. Instead of the sponsor system, I prefer having it occur through a vote, however. In other words, you have the entire assembly view someone's application to join, and the entire assembly gets to ask him questions to see his knowledge of the laws, how quickly he learns, and how active he is during that time. Then they retire and discuss among themselves whether this person should gain entrance.

    We could even avoid this becoming a popularity contest, by for instance giving the monarch's vote more weight than any other member for deciding whether said person would gain entry to the assembly.

    And then we can cut out the upper assembly completely and just give the monarch the power to veto bills.

    I suppose I should clarify that I don't mind sponsorship to gain entry to the assembly.  In fact, I think it makes sense in a meritocratic government to prove your worth to experienced people before you're entrusted with that sort of responsibility.
    PB
    • Posts: 1,760
    • Karma: 373
    • Paragons
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Laurentus
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • Count of Highever
  • Ah, so were your and Reon's concerns mostly regarding the upper chamber?
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
    Laurentus
    • Posts: 8,755
    • Karma: 4,635
    • Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      The Noble House of Valeria
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    PB
  • Paragons
  • Personally, yes. I like the House integration, but its really purely aesthetic in its current form.
    PB
    • Posts: 1,760
    • Karma: 373
    • Paragons
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Hydra
  • Former Citizen
  • Hail Hydra!
  • As the week is winding down, I finally had the chance to read over this. Just as a heads up, I have zero political experience (both online and IRL).

    I, for the most part, agree with Weiss's statements in his critiques.

    As Point Breeze pointed out, these titles should be given out pretty sparingly for true overachievers who've given much more to this region than most. But, if the titles are given too sparingly, the upper house would barely have people to run it. Perhaps there should be another way to prove merit to get into the upper house besides just being appointed a noble, especially with their check for merit for their membership in the upper house every season anyway.
    1 person likes this post: Laurentus
    You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
    - Mae West
    Hydra
    • Hail Hydra!
    • Posts: 1,921
    • Karma: 549
    • I solemnly swear that I'm up to no good.
    • Former Citizen
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      The Noble House of Valeria
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Laurentus
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • Count of Highever
  • It's always useful to gain the opinion of those who have no experience whatsoever, since the chances are that many such people who join the region will be in the same predicament, and our system has to be simple enough for them to instantly wrap their minds around it and contribute.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
    Laurentus
    • Posts: 8,755
    • Karma: 4,635
    • Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      The Noble House of Valeria
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    tatte
  • Citizen
  • Deep-fried cabbage
  • After reading the whole thread of one sitting and for the first time as well, I'm mostly left with the feeling that Gerrick (or someone else) might need to rewrite a proposal that's in line with what Wintermoot would currently allow.

    This proposal is starting to sound like having two Underhusens and replacing Overhusen with a lone Wintermoot. It started out interesting, but has too much been lost on the road?

    I also don't think making the entry process an individualistic, spotlight-personal experience is a good idea. It would serve efficiently the meritocratic purity of our legislative bodies, but it'd either be repelling or cause hurt feelings. One of the perks of our frequent elections are that it's easy to run as a part of a larger group, have some exciting fun and not be butthurt when you don't get elected since you're not the only one.

    Hanging on to those elections is in my mind the best way to retain most balanced appeal without compromising the fulfillment of meritocratic justice. This being said, I'd instead be looking to the purpose of the OH (since it could apparently be replaced with Wintermoot alone) and how the Citizen's Platform works. The path of nonpolitical-politics is narrow and has few carrots to spare.

    Perhaps introducing a true House of Peasants would serve the purpose this proposal has left. Let's just slap an application form that makes the applicants answer some questions with practically automatic approval process. Boom, we have a controlled way to introduce people into our system, they get the kind of a goal that doesn't diminish anything else and being involved in politics is both nearly as open as it already is, but at the same time differentiating from those that aren't. :P (No, no new legislative power to the common Citizens, or Peasants as I rudely titled us.)

    (Yeah, it's getting late and I have been staring at this for way too long. Hitting Post just so the time wouldn't feel so wasted.)
    tatte
    • Deep-fried cabbage
    • Posts: 1,853
    • Karma: 291
    • Citizen
    • Wintreath Nation
      Logged
     
    Pages: 1 2 [3] 4