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No, Gov, you've had a lot of time already. We extended debate by 72 hours. That's a long time.

@Laurentus people have lives outside NS.  I had already mentioned this in advance and then my computer got damaged.

I am asking you to be reasonable and wait until my statement has been reviewed.

There is no need to rush this, that goes against the notion of due process.  Why in such a hurry to do this @North.  Are you hiding something?

And what, prey tell, could I possibly be hiding?

@North you seem to be rushing this for some reason

No, Gov, you've had a lot of time already. We extended debate by 72 hours. That's a long time.

@Laurentus people have lives outside NS.  I had already mentioned this in advance and then my computer got damaged.

I am asking you to be reasonable and wait until my statement has been reviewed.

There is no need to rush this, that goes against the notion of due process.  Why in such a hurry to do this @North.  Are you hiding something?

And what, prey tell, could I possibly be hiding?

@North you seem to be rushing this for some reason

Well, that's your opinion.

No, I would give no one else more time. I'm not going to argue about this. Release the statement or don't. It's not my problem.

You have time until Barnes can pass or deny our motion too, so I suggest you get on it.

I'm not technically able to deny motions. The motion to vote was passed first, so that takes precedence over the debate extension. I will delay releasing the vote for 24 hours to allow Govindia to submit his statement, but nothing further.

Considering I made the original motion, as well as the second one, the second one is the valid one, since it was basically me changing my mind about the first one.

You also can't wilfully delay any motions.

If that is your intent to withdraw the voting motion, that only furthers North's withdrawal of his voting motion. I also didn't delay any motions, per se, only discussing a delay in releasing the vote, which I am allowed to do, within seven days. But that does not matter henceforth because debate has been extended.

Gov, the motion has been extended to give you an extra day.

As I stated, this is day 6 now since the debate started, 9 if you count the time since the original proposal thread (aka this thread) was posted.

That has been quite enough time for you to have already had a statement prepared, reviewed, and posted.  Again, I understand real life happens and things happen, but I have to echo Laurentus on the time management thing.  There's still time that can be taken in between real life affairs within that entire 9 day cycle that a statement could have been written by you, or jointly written by you and your counsel.  Even an hour a day before going to sleep to start writing up a statement is something.

And again, I also understand that shit happens in reference to you spilling a drink on your laptop and losing the statement, but for something as important as that, I'm actually surprised you didn't google document it or have a backup on the cloud just in case...especially since you had said that it was the only document that you lost...implying that either you did that for every other document, or you had none except that...though I'd wager a guess more at the former.

We're not trying to rush this since we do want to give you time to prepare a statement since we very much do want to hear it...but we can't continuously drag this out.  Not to mention that we're very close to hitting the final deadline for debate extensions anyways (1 week)...which this last extension is hitting.

You have time obviously during the voting to post your statement...but again, obviously, we want to hear it before we go into the voting cycle so that it can be taken into account when that time happens.

So please, do whatever it is that you need to do to get your statement polished and out there before this last extension is over (which will be roughly 4:30AM PST on the 19th).  Otherwise, there's really nothing else we can do since we can't give you more time.

I don't know how on earth you could possibly say this is being rushed Gov. You've had 6 days to defend yourself, days which were both mandated by procedure and tagged on (probably) out of sympathy, but all you've done so far is make excuses. And now, for whatever reason, the UH has somehow pulled another act of generosity out of their hat for you, giving you just one more day. The UH has been extremely patient with you, more so than you deserve quite frankly and you're still making excuses. Why on earth they gave another day is frankly beyond me. You should take advantage of their good will and post your statement already, while you can. Accusing one of the Skrifa, who literally will play an instrumental part in whether or not you retain citizenship here, of some kinda hidden agenda sure as hell ain't helping you. If anything, he's more likely to support revoking your citizenship as a result. You should really focus on the matter at hand, like you know, releasing your statement in an effort to retain your citizenship as opposed to accusing Skrifa of non-existent misdeeds.

In short, we need time to compile our case. We all suggest you use this time to compile yours. Please submit your statement within the next 15 hours or we will most likely motion to vote without it.

Sorry I haven't posted on my thoughts on this thread, I haven't checked the recent discussions on here I about a few weeks or so...

Anyways, after looking through here, I thought I might as well show my oppinion on this matter.

I understand that you've been going through a lot recently, with not much of it being good. The main problem here, as I see it, is that you are letting the stress/anger/[insert other emotions here] get to you, and taking it out in the wrong places. I see that you would like to get your mind off of the stress you are experiencing by posting on the dumping grounds, and other threads. But at the same time, the stress and other emotions are overwhelming you, and making you snap, causing you to be overly defensive, trying to get back at others, and make things seem to be other's faults. In my opinion, this thread is a wake-up call, reminding you need to calm down, and think about what you are doing. If anything, I think the best solution here would be to have less damage done in the long run, and go a little more on the dormant side (in words of activity) just so you don't piss anymore people off in your time of depression.

Anyways, seeing both sides of this argument, I will most likely stay neutral in this debate, at the same time saving Gov from gaining one more unnescecary enemy.

Note: I said "you" a lot in my reasoning, just to clarify, it's directed towards Govindia

Ladies and Gentlemen of Wintreath,

We have had a tumultuous few weeks.  There were emotions running high during the discussions on the controversial Open Assembly Amendment.

Unfortunately, this mess involved me.  I appealed for calm, and in my attempts to get support for my post asking for calm, I became frustrated because I wanted people to be calm and I wanted people to support that statement.

In my frustration, I became surprised when @HannahB and @Pengu became silent and persisted for them to respond because I had thought they would support an appeal for calm too, having seen the backlash of people voicing out their opposition after it was put to a referendum vote rather than during discussion while in the draft phase.

Pengu became silent and refused to discuss the matter with me.   HannahB overreacted and snapped at me when I tried to broach the subject on Friday, which was when it was dropped.  However, I was given permission the next day (that Saturday) to talk to Hannah and once again got stonewalled and despite not being told explicitly to drop the matter, was banned when tensions were high.  However, this ban, one that was done on high strung emotions, is a separate issue from this entirely.

This issue comes out of a larger matter, which is that of my interactions with others in this region.

When this Underhusen took office, with a new Speaker being elected, an agenda was set forth for the new 14th Underhusen, namely along the lines of resolving various attempts at constitutional reform. 

Nowhere did it state to push for a revocation attempt against a citizen of the region, as a result of secret discussions from the previous Underhusen, that no one has access to.

I had planned to take a hiatus after my disastrous election defeat to do the following:

- Perform my mother's srardham to make sure she was at peace once again.
- Attempt to financially stabilise myself for some time.
- Restore some ties with my father that have been fractured a lot as some of you know.
- Work on getting some help that I needed.  I have already begun the paperwork process for "rehabilitative services" with the state.

Other than limited military support that we do, and RP / spam game stuff, I was going to do not really much else in the region and lay low.  However, my citizenship and honour have to become under siege, so I now have to defend myself instead of everyone backing off and just letting the government follow the legislative agenda they were elected to do.

In any event, I apologise for upsetting Hannah and Pengu during that discussion period, when all I wanted them to do is show their support for my statement asking for calm.

I am in the process of preparing a mediation with Skrifa and InformasjonJarl Hannah, to resolve various issues between myself and her, which is how much of the IRC probation began.  I am extending an olive branch to Skrifa and KulturJarl Pengu, and hope he is willing to do the same as well.

Now there are other instances here I will do my best to try and address.

@Lumenland posted private message conversations about my asking her to join my family.  Here, I wasn't attempting to harass her, and just like in the thread, I was jokingly competing to get people to join my house.  Initially from discussions she was willing but then got convinced to join another house.  Was I upset?  Not really, but I wasn't sure initially if she did it out of spite or just because she got convinced better.  I had no idea why she said what she said, because to my understanding she never really had issues with me, and I thought I was one of her friends?   She never approached me about any issues she had with me.  While she may have also moderated in a 1500+ member group, Wintreath is not that, and in Nation-States, most regions (including this one I hope[/u]) have a form of due process where the accused can defend themselves against accusations levied against them in a reasonable court with reasonable impartiality[/u]. 

In any event Lumenland, I wasn't trying to bother you about it, and I had no idea you felt that way since you did not communicate that directly to me.  I am very sorry if my actions dissuaded you from speaking to me or wanting to join my family, and I'm sorry if this gave you a poor impression about me.  I hope you can understand it was never intentional, and I would like us to still be friends, regardless of what happens here from this.

Hans Majestet Kongen @Wintermoot posted that I was not happy with the decision to ban me for four weeks worth of Civ V games, never fully notifying me until I had to ask when I was unbanned.  He had me banned from the games because he stated I was engaged in unsportsmanlike conduct in how I expressed my frustration in getting devastated.  Myself, having still not anyone experienced to play with and practise, thought this was overkill, or almost the Civ V equivalent of teabagging, having not really played any other RTS games since Halo Wars and prior to that: the ill fated attempt with Star Wars: Force Commander.  I got upset at what was a grievous loss and took out my frustration to people in that game.   I also had been trying to get practise help prior to that, and no one did not want to play, which added to that frustration, and what led to me lashing out, and suffering the consequences via a four week ban from the game invites.  I am not too familiar with who was involved in the games back then (as I'm on my phone writing this), but I would like to apologise to those players, and the organiser of the Civ V games, Hans Majestet, Wintermoot himself.  I was reckless and overly frustrated, and I should have better asked for an understanding of the mechanics of the game in a better manner.  I am sorry, Wintermoot.

There is also a greater notion here that I harass people here deliberately when I wish to talk to them about something, to the point that punitive action has to be done.

Let me be clear on my thought process.  I am a direct person, raised by Indian parents who were also brought up to be direct with people.  If there is an issue, I was also brought up in conflict resolution classes to handle with that person directly and resolve it with them in a mature, assertive manner.  In Asian society, if someone addresses you, you do not ignore them.  It is considered rude, disrespectful, and insulting and offensive, and dishonourable. 

When I need to speak to someone, be it about something either they like, or dislike, it's one thing if they're away and then come back later.  If they are active and actively ignoring my attempts to speak to them, much less have the decency and courtesy to acknowledge at least my presence, let alone wanting to talk to them, that to me, in my view that comes off as disrespectful and rude. 

A lot of these issues seem to come from a lot of communication issues.  I have always grown up being direct with others, and expecting people to adapt, if not find some middle ground.  I don't know what middle ground they wanted re: communication, but in terms of speaking to me in that regard outside general conversation, has been "don't do X" in the sense of when trying to communicate about an issue of concern, I'm either ignored, told to drop it, or just given a negative response.

I never asked to have any trouble started.  I simply wanted people to communicate with me in a reasonable, if not direct manner, that was clearly understandable for all parties involved, not just one side.  I am sorry if there was a communication breakdown, and I regret the negative consequences that resulted from that.

I have also been told I have not been receiving very much sympathy because of my situation.  Regardless of my situation, everyone deserves to be treated with respect.  I was deeply hurt when I got very little support when I have been going through a rough patch with my father, on one of the worst days of the year that never is a good thing for me.

I do care about people in this region.  I had hoped most, if not all of you, consider me friends.  I have given support to @Reux when she was depressed, even went out of my way to get something from Comic-Con for her to cheer her up.  I bought chocolate covered strawberries for @Evelynx when she was depressed, even got a free replacement for her when they were not delivered properly.  I have done my best to give support to Wintermoot and Hannah when they were in rough patches.

I have also donated to the region.  I don't do these things to curry favour with anyone, no.  I do it because I want to help where and when I can.  Something my mother always instilled in us to do.  No matter how bad of a day she was having, she wanted others around her to feel good, and instilled that sense of Hindu selfless service into myself and my sister.

I do not want to lose my citizenship in this region.  I care about this region, and I consider some of you here my friends, and I hope you guys consider me friends too.  As friends, you help them when they are in need.  Limited help was given, but again, there was a breakdown in communication.

I had explained before, if there is a problem anyone has, to please tell me directly, and discreetly, and we can work it out as adults, and move on from there.  Be direct, civil, and honest, that's what I will appreciate and respect. 

As stated before, I am in the process of working on a mediation effort with myself and Hannah, where I believe this was the initial primary cause of the IRC probation, among other things.

I want to contribute to this region as much as I can, and as I stated above, I'm working on getting paperwork sorted so the state can diagnose me and help provide services I need.  This is going to take time, which is why I wanted to go on hiatus before this happened.

To those who still consider me your friend, I'm sorry I let anyone down, and I regret if I hurt or upset anyone here.  I never intended to hurt anyone.  I just wanted a region that was open, caring, and gave people a fair shake, regardless of background.  I want to still contribute to this region, because I still have useful skills that I can put to good use here, and I want to have a chance to use them.

Thank everyone for their patience and understanding, and to my advisor team who helped me with my statement, thanks.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 via Tapatalk

A calm and collected response, Gov - thank you for taking the time to think about this rationally and put your thoughts into words without accidentally inflaming the already high tensions we've got going around here. Whilst I'm sure to some this will be seen as simply another ass-cover, I rather feel most of those individuals had their minds made up long before you posted this, for better or for worse.

I'd hope that this statement is taken and considered with the merit it is due by my fellow Skifra. I'll definitely be making sure they're aware of it (@Barnes @North @Point Breeze @HannahB @Laurentus @Pengu).

...

I feel that quite often if you disagree with or otherwise fail to comprehend the reasoning someone presents to you, you simply disregard it and go on believing that no adequate or any whatsoever was ever provided. The fact that despite of how stormy our last pre-ignore interaction in the irc was, you continued the exact same behavior here in the forums, fortifies this.

I admit that my own shortcomings have played an integral role in the problems between the two of us, and for that reason I have tried to stay out of all this, despite of having a lot to say.

Your presence caused me to take a break from the irc, your presence made me stop playing Double Post Game and things would probably only have kept getting worse if Wintermoot hadn't provided a function to ignore user's posts.

I hope that there are no mistakes on either side, the situation this thread is set to solve doesn't cover just past few weeks. It's way, way bigger and longer lasting issue than that.

I may have found my peace from you, but I feel sorry for those who can't enjoy the same freedom. I'd wish you good luck, but I'd regret it immediately after the dislike you're likely to reward me with.

Well put, Gov. Alas, to little to late. I want you to get better and I want you to stay, which is why I support the Revocation. Then, once we know that you've improved we can let you back in. I'm sorry that it came to this but I honestly believe that this will help you. Whatever happens, Gov, good luck and Godspeed.

Well put, Gov. Alas, to little to late. I want you to get better and I want you to stay, which is why I support the Revocation. Then, once we know that you've improved we can let you back in. I'm sorry that it came to this but I honestly believe that this will help you. Whatever happens, Gov, good luck and Godspeed.

Wanting me to get better and stay means you're against the Revocation, not for it?  That sounds very contradictory :-/

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Well put, Gov. Alas, to little to late. I want you to get better and I want you to stay, which is why I support the Revocation. Then, once we know that you've improved we can let you back in. I'm sorry that it came to this but I honestly believe that this will help you. Whatever happens, Gov, good luck and Godspeed.

Wanting me to get better and stay means you're against the Revocation, not for it?  That sounds very contradictory :-/

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I'm hoping this will cause you to reevaluate your attitude. This is why I opposed PnG. Because I still think that you can be saved.