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It's funny when the people I trust don't really care how I feel :-/

Okay Gov, I'll just say it like this:

I'm sorry that you lost your pet a year ago, I really am.

But realize that other people have their problems as well, as I highlighted both on the chat, and right above your post (literally 4 posts above this one) you'll notice that I'm having a shit day because of something that happened in the span of the present.  Obviously, as much as I'm sad for you, my level of caring in general is at pre-microscopic level, and I don't mean that as a way against you...it's just how I'm feeling today.

When you know I'm having an absolute shit day because I am completely and utterly pissed at something, continuously diverting attention to talk about your deceased cat isn't going to garner sympathy from me when I'm in the process of venting.  And pestering me with saying my name constantly, telling Zaphyr to tell me to look at the picture, and sending me queries about it also isn't going to help either, and if anything is just going to give me more of a reason to be pissed off, since I tend to not like being pestered that much for something in general (as I've told you before when you do it), and doing it on a day where I'm pissed off in general is going to heighten that.

So before you say that others don't care about you feel, stop trying to ask everyone to look at your picture and cry with you and think about how others feel as well.

On IRC you didn't make it sound like you were having a bad day.

And regarding "pestering", maybe if you actually acknowledged my post instead of passively saying NOTHING, then I wouldn't have tried to repeatedly get a hold of you. 

So yes, ignoring me deliberately when I was reaching out to you was stupid, rude, and disrespectful.  I can't read your mind.  It isn't up to me to realise you're having a bad day.  I was also upset too and I reached out to you because I thought you bloody cared.

In future, stop being passive and if I'm trying to get a hold of you, and you see it, please don't be rude and acknowledge it.  You're not the only one who has feelings too. 

So when you actually care about how I feel, please respond properly to my post above.  In future, learn to acknowledge and respond appropriately when someone is trying to get a hold of you, instead of ignoring them passively.   It's at least showing you acknowledge what they said.  At least COS did .

1) How does my ranting about my day (and CoS, since you keep using him, can vouch for the fact that I WAS ranting throughout) when you're online, right when you decide to interject to talk about your cat, not sound like I'm having a bad day?  The logs can even attest to the fact that I expressed several times how pissed I was.

2) Gov, I said it on here, I said it thousands of times to you when you pestered me with asking me to vote for you in query, and I'll say it again: I tend to not like being pestered that much for something in general.  And yes, that includes everything I mentioned before.  I've told you this thousands of times already, so there's nothing passive about it.  I haven't danced around the issue at all, I flat out told you in chat to stop doing it.  If I'm telling you I don't like it, then I don't like it.  I shouldn't have to make it a point to tell you every time you come on to not do it.  It's common courtesy that if you KNOW the person dislikes it, don't do it.

So no, I'm not going to acknowledge everything you said, because you don't seem to respect the fact that I've told you countless times how much I dislike it.

Now if you've got more to say, which I know you do, then please take it to PM.  This is getting very off topic, and I really don't care to continue to make a spectacle in front of everyone.

It's funny when the people I trust don't really care how I feel :-/

Okay Gov, I'll just say it like this:

I'm sorry that you lost your pet a year ago, I really am.

But realize that other people have their problems as well, as I highlighted both on the chat, and right above your post (literally 4 posts above this one) you'll notice that I'm having a shit day because of something that happened in the span of the present.  Obviously, as much as I'm sad for you, my level of caring in general is at pre-microscopic level, and I don't mean that as a way against you...it's just how I'm feeling today.

When you know I'm having an absolute shit day because I am completely and utterly pissed at something, continuously diverting attention to talk about your deceased cat isn't going to garner sympathy from me when I'm in the process of venting.  And pestering me with saying my name constantly, telling Zaphyr to tell me to look at the picture, and sending me queries about it also isn't going to help either, and if anything is just going to give me more of a reason to be pissed off, since I tend to not like being pestered that much for something in general (as I've told you before when you do it), and doing it on a day where I'm pissed off in general is going to heighten that.

So before you say that others don't care about you feel, stop trying to ask everyone to look at your picture and cry with you and think about how others feel as well.

On IRC you didn't make it sound like you were having a bad day.

And regarding "pestering", maybe if you actually acknowledged my post instead of passively saying NOTHING, then I wouldn't have tried to repeatedly get a hold of you. 

So yes, ignoring me deliberately when I was reaching out to you was stupid, rude, and disrespectful.  I can't read your mind.  It isn't up to me to realise you're having a bad day.  I was also upset too and I reached out to you because I thought you bloody cared.

In future, stop being passive and if I'm trying to get a hold of you, and you see it, please don't be rude and acknowledge it.  You're not the only one who has feelings too. 

So when you actually care about how I feel, please respond properly to my post above.  In future, learn to acknowledge and respond appropriately when someone is trying to get a hold of you, instead of ignoring them passively.   It's at least showing you acknowledge what they said.  At least COS did .

1) How does my ranting about my day (and CoS, since you keep using him, can vouch for the fact that I WAS ranting throughout) when you're online, right when you decide to interject to talk about your cat, not sound like I'm having a bad day?  The logs can even attest to the fact that I expressed several times how pissed I was.

2) Gov, I said it on here, I said it thousands of times to you when you pestered me with asking me to vote for you in query, and I'll say it again: I tend to not like being pestered that much for something in general.  And yes, that includes everything I mentioned before.  I've told you this thousands of times already, so there's nothing passive about it.  I haven't danced around the issue at all, I flat out told you in chat to stop doing it.  If I'm telling you I don't like it, then I don't like it.  I shouldn't have to make it a point to tell you every time you come on to not do it.  It's common courtesy that if you KNOW the person dislikes it, don't do it.

So no, I'm not going to acknowledge everything you said, because you don't seem to respect the fact that I've told you countless times how much I dislike it.

No you didn't say anything.  You were rude and ignoring me.  I didn't see anywhere on IRC that you seemed upset and I am sorry if I missed that.  However you still should have acknowledged what I said and politely responded to that if nothing else.

You were passive and rudely did not say or acknowledge anything and that's on you and no one else.

I am still asking for you and anyone else who gives a damn to please respond to what I had posted above.  Just because you have feelings doesn't mean mine should be rudely ignored too >_<

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Now if you've got more to say, which I know you do, then please take it to PM.  This is getting very off topic, and I really don't care to continue to make a spectacle in front of everyone.

I'm saying nothing further on this matter in this thread.

Now if you've got more to say, which I know you do, then please take it to PM.  This is getting very off topic, and I really don't care to continue to make a spectacle in front of everyone.

I'm saying nothing further on this matter in this thread.

You should have acknowledged what someone else said instead of rudely tuned them out or not responded at all, ESPECIALLY when they reached out to YOU for support.

So that was your fault on that part.

Please respond to my post Pengu proper.   You are not the only one that has feelings here.  People seem to forget that.

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Now if you've got more to say, which I know you do, then please take it to PM.  This is getting very off topic, and I really don't care to continue to make a spectacle in front of everyone.

I'm saying nothing further on this matter in this thread.

You should have acknowledged what someone else said instead of rudely tuned them out

Alright Gov, since you seem so keen to keep pushing, I'll leave it at this, and then I'm jumping out of this thread since you don't seem to be able to understand when I say take it to PM since it's getting off topic.

If you want people to acknowledge what you say and not tune you out, then again, common courtesy is expected, and you should do the same for them.

Last I remember, and I'm sure someone that was in the chat at the time can attest, you bombarded me with queries about your campaign, what I thought, if you could count on my support, blah blah blah.

When I failed to respond to you, you asked me point blank in the chat why I was ignoring you and making a scene about it.

I decided to respond to you, and told you flat out right there that I don't like being pestered with queries to that extent, and that I will ignore you if you keep doing it.  I also stated that it was rude to constantly pester someone with queries (in that instance I said because you shouldn't pester someone to vote for you), and that if someone chooses to ignore your query, then you need to move on.

I also told you the same with Bootsie when he was choosing not to acknowledge you.  I told you that constantly pestering him was absolutely rude, more rude than his choosing to ignore you because he felt it was the right thing to do.

So yes Gov, those are only two instances, which I'm very sure others can vouch for me, that I've flat out, not passively, but flat out told you how completely rude it is that you do that, and the first I even told you that if you continue, I won't even acknowledge those messages.  And if you continue to use Zaphyr to tell me messages, I'll just completely block you on IRC for good, and that's something I've never done before.

So please, drop it and leave me alone, or at least be civil and take it to PM where I may or may not choose to answer it, because I'm done talking about it in here, and I'm done trying to get it through to you that you're being far more disrespectful than you think I'm being simply because I won't talk about your cat.

It's a continuing cycle with you, and I'm done with it.  Pester me again, and I will have a reason to get pissy, because this is seriously what feels like the 1000th time, and I'm just completely done with it.

*IGNORE ME!*

@Pengu: to bring this back on topic, I want to say that if it is possible for Neshia to remove herself and Jaydon from the situation completely as you have done, that would be the best route.

I feel that at this stage something needs to give; it has gone too far for something not to. Either Ray needs to learn to control himself (unlikely given his desire not to care, people don't change without reason), Steven needs to realise what kind of person Ray is and dump him (also unlikely, as if Steven is trying to start a relationship with Ray he is likely trying to make a good first impression to the guy, even at the detriment of his friends around him) or Neshia needs to take matters into her own hands.

Given Ray's attitude I feel that things are only going to get worse, or at the very least leave Neshia and Jaydon with constant stress and fear. And that is not a good place to be when you are in your own home.

In my opinion, violence is never the solution. It only begets more fear, unhappiness and would only work to damage the friendships you guys have. You can't force people to make changes as you can only fully control your own destiny, so it's best for everyone involved if Neshia moved out ASAP.

With both Neshia and you gone it will then leave Steven with the idea that by staying with Ray he has pushed all his friends away from him and left him on his own. Perhaps then he will see what a bad influence Ray has become in his life. That's my two cents anyhow.

Also, I wouldn't advise deletion of posts, just ignore Govindia and leave this to Wintermoot to deal with.

@Govindia: I am sorry for your loss, really, but why do you have to make a meal out of the smallest things? You need to have patience and realise that other people have their own lives too and are not there just to service yours. Also, please do not use Zaphyr in that way.

@Pengu: to bring this back on topic, I want to say that if it is possible for Neisha to remove herself and Jaydon from the situation completely as you have done, that would be the best route.

I feel that at this stage something needs to give; it has gone too far for something not to. Either Ray needs to learn to control himself (unlikely given his desire not to care, people don't change without reason), Steven needs to realise what kind of person Ray is and dump him (also unlikely, as if Steven is trying to start a relationship with Ray he is likely trying to make a good first impression to the guy, even at the detriment of his friends around him) or Neisha needs to take matters into her own hands.

Given Ray's attitude I feel that things are only going to get worse, or at the very least leave Neisha and Jaydon with constant stress and fear. And that is not a good place to be when you are in your own home.

In my opinion, violence is never the solution. It only begets more fear, unhappiness and would only work to damage the friendships you guys have. You can't force people to make changes as you can only fully control your own destiny, so it's best for everyone involved if Neisha moved out ASAP.

With both Neisha and you gone it will then leave Steven with the idea that by staying with Ray he has pushed all his friends away from him and left him on his own. Perhaps then he will see what a bad influence Ray has become in his life. That's my two cents anyhow.

Also, I wouldn't advise deletion of posts, just ignore Govindia and leave this to Wintermoot to deal with.

@Govindia: I am sorry for your loss, really, but why do you have to make a meal out of the smallest things? You need to have patience and realise that other people have their own lives too and are not there just to service yours. Also, please do not use Zaphyr in that way.

Wuufu I reached out to someone who I thought cared how I felt.  COS barely responded so I turned to Pengu and ignored me.

That hurt.  This isn't a "small" thing.  I was upset, hurting, and emotional and no one cares apparently how I feel.

If they did, people would have responded to what I posted instead of defending how I was treated

I still would like people who actually care  to actually respond to my earlier post on the previous page please :-/

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@Pengu: to bring this back on topic, I want to say that if it is possible for Neshia to remove herself and Jaydon from the situation completely as you have done, that would be the best route.

I feel that at this stage something needs to give; it has gone too far for something not to. Either Ray needs to learn to control himself (unlikely given his desire not to care, people don't change without reason), Steven needs to realise what kind of person Ray is and dump him (also unlikely, as if Steven is trying to start a relationship with Ray he is likely trying to make a good first impression to the guy, even at the detriment of his friends around him) or Neshia needs to take matters into her own hands.

Given Ray's attitude I feel that things are only going to get worse, or at the very least leave Neshia and Jaydon with constant stress and fear. And that is not a good place to be when you are in your own home.

In my opinion, violence is never the solution. It only begets more fear, unhappiness and would only work to damage the friendships you guys have. You can't force people to make changes as you can only fully control your own destiny, so it's best for everyone involved if Neshia moved out ASAP.

With both Neshia and you gone it will then leave Steven with the idea that by staying with Ray he has pushed all his friends away from him and left him on his own. Perhaps then he will see what a bad influence Ray has become in his life. That's my two cents anyhow.

Also, I wouldn't advise deletion of posts, just ignore Govindia and leave this to Wintermoot to deal with.

@Govindia: I am sorry for your loss, really, but why do you have to make a meal out of the smallest things? You need to have patience and realise that other people have their own lives too and are not there just to service yours. Also, please do not use Zaphyr in that way.

Thanks for the reply on this Wuufu.  I think that's where my mind is at on this whole thing at the moment.  It's all on Neshia since it's her dog, and she needs to do something about it.  I know she talked to Steven about it sometime after I left, and I'm hoping that it was a very illuminating talk.

I echo you completely on the violence factor, which is why I normally don't condone it.  But there are times such as that to where I can't help but feel that literally knocking some sense into the guy is the only way to make him understand what he's doing.

That being said though, her leaving due to it would definitely set off some alarms in Steven's head about it.  If he knows that I'm thrilled to be gone because I don't have to be around Ray (and he knows how hard it is for me to actually dislike someone to that extent), and Neshia leaves for the same reason, maybe he'll open his eyes and reevaluate what he's gotten himself into.  I just hope he does, because Steven is a good guy, and he doesn't deserve to have someone that is going to drive his friends away from him.

I only resort to deleting posts because ignoring him clearly doesn't work, as that's the entire reason why he's even going off in this thread in the first place.  Honestly, if there was a way to block from even seeing his posts in threads, I would have done so by now and saved however many pages this argument has taken up.  But you're right I suppose that it should just be something for Mooty to handle, and I'll try to continue the method in which I've been attempting.

When children throw tantrums, the best course of action is to ignore them. Seriously Govindia, this is incredibly childish behaviour.

When children throw tantrums, the best course of action is to ignore them. Seriously Govindia, this is incredibly childish behaviour.

No it wasn't.   apparently you ignored a word I said.  Being passive was childish when someone who was upset was reaching out to someone who thought they cared.

Read again properly before prejudging Laurentus

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When I'm having a bad day, the last thing I want to do is get dragged into a pointless conflict, and when someone irritates me, which is quite easy to accomplish when I'm in a bad mood, then the best course of action for me is to acknowledge how I feel, but also acknowledge that if I act on said feeling (irritation, annoyance) then I'll make a small matter worse, because at that moment the way I feel is clouding my better judgment.

Making a public spectacle just makes everything worse.

Take Pengu up on his advice and settle this through PM. There is absolutely no justification for making this type of scene. Which is caused in the first place because you're allowing your feelings to cloud your judgment. Calm down. Take deep breaths. Think things through. And then PM him.

Posting during lunch between meetings at work...

@Pengu: First off, kudos on getting out of a bad situation. As bad as that situation is, it would be even more stressful on you if you were still living there and having to always be in that environment. This has always been my fear with apartment-style living and why I opted to buy a house instead. All it takes is one person not giving a shit to ruin that sort of living situation, and it sounds like Ray doesn't give a shit and isn't going to give a shit.

Which means it's time for others to step up, and make him aware that his behaviour is not responsible and if he continues it there will be consequences to his actions. Preferably in a perfect world that would be your ex, as he's the person he's most likely to listen to and he's the one that brought him there to begin with. And if your ex is willing to lose old friendships over a guy, then that's stupid and he also needs to accept the consequences of that. I hope if it comes to that I hope he learns a good lesson. Bros before hos, man.

Have you guys thought of leaving a camera around when she's not around and getting evidence that he's beating her dog? Then perhaps taking it to the police? Animal abuse is not only very serious, it's a criminal offense. In any case, nobody should have to put up with any of that, even if they aren't already mostly paying for everything as it is. It sounds like overall they're making her a guest in her own apartment, and even if the animal abuse wasn't going on, that should also be unacceptable.

@Govindia: Your downfall in pretty much every region in NationStates is that you never know when to lay off and quit pestering people. People are not under any obligation to respond to you when you so demand it. If someone is not answering you, it means that they're either busy or don't want to talk to you, and bombarding them with requests and notices to talk to you is not going to change that...it's just going to piss them off. It pisses me off when you do that, and it pisses any normal person off, so knock it off.

To put it in NS-terms, Pengu has now very clearly told you to stop doing it to him. If you continue, I think he has a solid case to bring up harassment/aggression charges against you, and the last thing you need in this game is for yet another region, especially one that has gone out of its way to accept you and take criticism from the rest of NS for it, to conclude that you're harassing its members. Additionally, you have been warned multiple times not to abuse Zaphyr to contact people that are online and not replying to you, and I know you're aware of the rule because you used to try to go after Alterra by reporting that he was doing it...you just don't think these rules apply to you, apparently. So if I find you're abusing Zaphyr like this again at any point in the future, I will have your privileges to use him cut. Consider this your final warning in that area.

I'm sorry about Frito...I know what it's like to lose a pet, and it is an emotional experience, but you have to learn not to take it out on everyone else and to lay off when someone else wants space from you.

Posting during lunch between meetings at work...

@Pengu: First off, kudos on getting out of a bad situation. As bad as that situation is, it would be even more stressful on you if you were still living there and having to always be in that environment. This has always been my fear with apartment-style living and why I opted to buy a house instead. All it takes is one person not giving a shit to ruin that sort of living situation, and it sounds like Ray doesn't give a shit and isn't going to give a shit.

Which means it's time for others to step up, and make him aware that his behaviour is not responsible and if he continues it there will be consequences to his actions. Preferably in a perfect world that would be your ex, as he's the person he's most likely to listen to and he's the one that brought him there to begin with. And if your ex is willing to lose old friendships over a guy, then that's stupid and he also needs to accept the consequences of that. I hope if it comes to that I hope he learns a good lesson. Bros before hos, man.

Have you guys thought of leaving a camera around when she's not around and getting evidence that he's beating her dog? Then perhaps taking it to the police? Animal abuse is not only very serious, it's a criminal offense. In any case, nobody should have to put up with any of that, even if they aren't already mostly paying for everything as it is. It sounds like overall they're making her a guest in her own apartment, and even if the animal abuse wasn't going on, that should also be unacceptable.

@Wintermoot, CoS was suggesting a camera as well, and I think I might suggest that to her, as that honestly would be the best course of action.

And Animal abuse to me is right there with spousal or child abuse.  You're hurting someone that can't/won't attack back for whatever reason, and you're using that to your advantage to make them afraid of you.  I've seen too many rescue dogs that were broken because of having owners neglect them, abuse them physically to where it left mental and even possible physical scars, and it's something that absolutely disgusts me.

I am hoping that things get better between all three of them...but I also know that they're not.  I know Neshia, and unless the talk ended with Steven saying that he was going to break up with Ray, they're not going to get better.  My guess was that it ended with all three of them talking about it, and Ray understanding how much of an asshole he's been...but I've also heard that one before when they tried talking to him about his temper when it comes to LOL and Ray having the same reaction...but he still has the temper as evidence by the fact that they've tried banning him from even playing it in the house even after their talk.

So unless more happened, I'm still very worried for the two of them, because I know that he's not going to learn that easily that he fucked up, and he's going to do it again, and shit is really going to hit the fan.  It's really just a matter of time.  And as much as I don't want it to tear a hole in their friendship, I know it's going to, and that's what makes me sad about the whole thing is that because of one person, their friendship is never going to be the same.

Overall I'm feeling better than I was yesterday, though.  Like I said in the original post, this was a long time coming and those events just really made it come out, but after getting them out and getting some sleep, I'm feeling much better today, and I might head over and talk to her today and see how things are actually going.

@Pengu and @Wintermoot will have my response PM'ed to them.  It's up to them if they wish to post it here.

I was also feeling upset yesterday, and I would actually like to know someone actually cares how I feel why I was upset, which means focused on only how upset I was feeling.  People do this for others.  I have feelings too, regardless.