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The South Pacific
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Wintermoot
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  • I'm assuming since some of the news is outdated that we're late in getting a copy. :P

    Ah well, thanks for the update in any case. :)


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    Wintermoot
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    Kris Montresor
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  • Not really, the Update itself was written late.
    Kris Montresor
    Delegate of the South Pacific
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  • Hi Wintreath!
    I have just been appointed as the new ambassador from the South Pacific, so expect the embassy to be a bit more active from now on. :)
    1 person likes this post: Katie
    Kris Montresor
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    Wintermoot
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  • Welcome back to Wintreath! :)

    You should probably re-register for ambassadorship, so that we can formally list you as TSP's ambassador. :)


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    Wintermoot
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  • Coalition of The South Pacific
    From the Ministry of Foreign Affairs

    The Cabinet of the South Pacific has issued today a statement officially recognising the Osiris Fraternal Order and hoping that eventually close relations will follow. Since the dissolution of the Kemetic Republic relations between Osiris and the South Pacific had been officially non-existent, although the Cabinet had been constantly evaluating the situation in Osiris.

    Lately there had been conversations between Osirian and South Pacific officials about an resuming diplomatic relations, and in addition the New Southern Army had been cooperating with the Sekhmet Legion in several missions. This was mentioned in the Cabinet's statement, and we hope that the relationship between the South Pacific and Osiris will eventually be as strong as it once was.

    To read the SPINN article go here: http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5929-breaking-tsp-formally-recognizes-the-ofo/#entry117767
    Kris Montresor
    Delegate of the South Pacific
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    Wintermoot
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  • Thank you for the update.


    I went all the way to Cassadega to commune with the dead
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    Wintermoot
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  • Coalition of The South Pacific
    From the Office of the Vice Delegate

    Quite a lot has happened recently in the South Pacific. Something worthy of mention is the dissolution of the ambassador corps by Foreign Minister Glen-Rhodes, with plans of a more effective and cost-effective foreign service. We have full confidence that this will be a positive change for our region. A more important event however is the recent move we had. Due to a dispute involving how Hileville ran the administrative team, our previous forum was taken down and we had to look for a new one. The South Pacific now has a myBB forum with Tsunamy, Glen-Rhodes and Kringalia as administrators.

    We encourage you check out our new forum and register!


    http://thesouthpacific.x10.mx/index.php/
    Kris Montresor
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    Wintermoot
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  • It would appear your new forums are in a state of chaos at the moment...none of the images work, and clicking a forum seems to take you back to the forum index page. :P


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    Eluvatar
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  • Hello!

    We're back :P
    1 person likes this post: Katie

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  • Welcome back. :P


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    Eluvatar
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  • While this is not an "official" update, I think I'll let you guys know that we recently had an election, in which tsunamy was elected Delegate, Penguin was elected Vice Delegate, Unibot was re-elected as Chair of the Assembly, Raven was elected Minister of Foreign Affairs, Kringalia was elected Minister of Regional Affairs, and Crimson was elected Minister of the Army.

    I'm one of Raven's two deputies :)

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  • A Conversation in #wintreath, info summarized below
    Quote from: #wintreath
    [17:18:38] <+Eluvatar> what alternative voting are you considering for the Unterhusen, out of curiosity?
    [17:19:11] <+Eluvatar> nm found the discussion topic
    [17:19:18] <+Chanku> http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1849.msg27091#msg27091
    [17:19:20] <+Zaphyr> [ Mapping the World! ] - http://wintreath.com
    [17:19:44] <+Eluvatar> o_o
    [17:19:50] <+Chanku> ?
    [17:20:22] <+Eluvatar> the weirded out face is re: http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1833.0 not the map link
    [17:20:25] <+Zaphyr> [ Proportional Voting? ] - http://wintreath.com
    [17:21:08] <+Eluvatar> Wintermoot, would the provision of some general information as a foreigner who has done a lot of thinking and experimenting with voting theory be welcomed in that topic? :$
    [17:22:19] <@Wintermoot> Heyo...I'm not sure if non-Citizens can post in that forum or not, but if you can I have no issue. :P
    [17:24:43] <+Chanku> Wintermoot I was Jarl during the time that we closed Embassies with TSP...right?
    [17:25:04] <@Wintermoot> I don't recall...I think I made the decision afterwards
    [17:25:20] <+Chanku> Actually I was
    [17:25:29] <+Chanku> it was part of the embassy restructure that I performed
    [17:25:59] <@Wintermoot> I wrote the statement about the closures though
    [17:26:04] <+Chanku> Yeah
    [17:26:12] <+Chanku> (Although I wanted to do that :/)
    [17:26:38] <+Chanku> Although ending relations with TSP is not what I suggested at the time :/
    [17:26:42] <+Eluvatar> oh. Yeah. I can't actually reply xD
    [17:27:05] <+Eluvatar> I guess I'll leave my thoughts here for y'all :)
    [17:28:15] <+Eluvatar> 1. It's probably important to be clear that proportional voting and preferential voting are not exactly the same thing. There's at least one proportional voting method which is not preferential, and a number of possible preferential voting methods which are not proportional.
    [17:29:00] <+Eluvatar> Specifically, Single Non-Transferable Vote, where you vote for one candidate and the N (in your case 5, I understand) candidates with the most votes are seated, is a proportional method, particularly assuming tactical voting, but is not a preferential method.
    [17:29:46] <+Eluvatar> As to preferential methods which are not proportional, there are a number of possible examples, but I don't see a need to mention them.
    [17:30:20] <+Eluvatar> Actually "AV was just the majority" -- AV is a single-seat method in the same family as Single Transferable Vote
    [17:30:39] <+Eluvatar> There are 3 terms for the same system, but two of them are generally used to refer to single-winner elections.
    [17:31:09] <+Eluvatar> (In the United Kingdom it was proposed to use the "Alternate Vote" for elections within individual constituencies, which would each elect 1 MP to the House of Commons).
    [17:31:52] <+Eluvatar> 2. The Single Transferable Vote is no longer in use in TNP because Executive Council elections have been discontinued.
    [17:32:17] <+Eluvatar> (Instead the elected Delegate has been appointing their Cabinet.)
    [17:33:54] <+Eluvatar> 3. There are at least two different ways to implement STV's elimination and vote transfer process: IRL this is done randomly, which for elections with thousands of votes is pretty fair. In NationStates however, where I've never seen an election with more than 158 votes, when I ran STV elections to TNP's Executive Council I used fractional transfers.
    [17:34:26] <@Wintermoot> There was an election with 158 votes? Wow...lol
    [17:34:43] <+Eluvatar> I sent ballots to every nation in The North Pacific.
    [17:35:01] <+Eluvatar> The first time I did this, it was novel enough that 158 of them voted. The second time, 96 voted if I remember correctly. (Maybe 98)
    [17:36:07] <@Wintermoot> We've had at most 24 votes...but we do all our elections on the forums.
    [17:36:37] <+Eluvatar> The last TNP Executive Council election, in which only forum-registered members voted, saw 36 votes.
    [17:36:54] <@Wintermoot> That's pretty good
    [17:36:58] <+Eluvatar> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCj7Gv_2W_MdFFhZFJGb2F0akEzbVhUWGFGLTd6TGc#gid=1
    [17:37:00] <+Zaphyr> [ Executive Council Election February 2013 ] - https://docs.google.com
    [17:37:23] <+Eluvatar> The final seat was won by 0.148 votes >.<
    [17:37:56] <@Wintermoot> Oh, an election Gov ran in...shocking. :P
    [17:40:12] <+Hugsim> Fractional seems the best with the low numbers of voters we have
    [17:40:40] <+Eluvatar> You might want to invalidate sufficiently small margins
    [17:40:46] <+Eluvatar> I dunno
    [17:41:24] <+Eluvatar> I'd recommend Schulze STV as a less finicky system, but it, ah, can have exponential runtime to evaluate >_>
    [17:41:31] <@Wintermoot> I guess I'm going to come off as ignorant, but how can you have a fractional vote? :P
    [17:41:41] <+Eluvatar> So the first form is pretty straightforwad
    [17:41:47] <+Eluvatar> if someone ranks multiple candidates 1st
    [17:41:52] <+Eluvatar> say, 5 candidates
    [17:41:59] <+Eluvatar> then each of those candidates gets 1/5 of a vote from them.
    [17:42:07] <+Eluvatar> Make sense?
    [17:42:23] <+Hugsim> Oh, you allow multiple people with the same rank
    [17:42:31] <+Eluvatar> aye
    [17:42:41] <@Wintermoot> Oh...I see :P
    [17:42:46] <+Chanku> Um...
    [17:43:00] <+Eluvatar> The counting method I used applied the same logic to transferring surplus votes from a candidate that makes quota
    [17:43:05] * Chanku doesn't understand what I'm looking at on the spreadsheet...
    [17:43:17] <+Eluvatar> let me find the textual explanation I posted on the forum...
    [17:43:57] <+Chanku> Also Fun-fact: Spritius is also thinking about changing the way they do elections.
    [17:44:49] <+Eluvatar> http://pastebin.com/atm0AZAt
    [17:44:55] <+Zaphyr> [ Executive Council Results February 2013 - Pastebin.com ] - http://pastebin.com
    [17:48:21] * Chanku is still confused
    [17:48:41] <+Eluvatar> The detail I should add is that the voting looked like this:
    [17:48:54] <+Eluvatar> http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/voter_ballot/
    [17:48:56] <+Zaphyr> [ Voter Ballot ] - http://forum.thenorthpacific.org
    [17:50:12] <@Wintermoot> And nobody accused anyone of being able to manipulate the vote from the backend?
    [17:50:37] <+Eluvatar> People usually trust me o.o
    [17:50:54] <+Eluvatar> Though technically in this instance it was mcmasterdonia running the system I'd written
    [17:51:49] <+Eluvatar> yeah, form (still) points to mcmasterdonia.thenorthpacific.org xD
    [17:52:07] <+Chanku> ...
    [17:53:13] <+Eluvatar> To be clear, this whole thing was entirely within the Delegates' office's discretion
    [17:53:19] <+Eluvatar> There was no law mandating it.
    [17:53:54] <+Eluvatar> I imagine it helps that people could find their ballots in the Raw Ballot sheet of the spreadsheet
    [17:53:58] * Wuufu has quit (Quit: Don't PanicBNC, I'll be back!)
    [17:54:17] * Guest80283 is now known as Henn
    [17:54:24] * Spock gives voice to Henn
    [17:54:48] <@Wintermoot> That's just something that comes up anytime votes aren't done by public post in NS, it seems lol
    [17:55:09] <+Eluvatar> It did come up, but was not discussed for long
    [17:55:32] <+Chanku> ...I still don't completely understand
    [17:56:15] <+Eluvatar> could you ask a specific question?
    [17:56:23] <+Eluvatar> Because I'm not sure what to focus on in trying to explain.
    [17:57:14] <+Chanku> Give me a moment
    [17:57:25] <+Chanku> alright on this: http://pastebin.com/atm0AZAt
    [17:57:26] <+Zaphyr> [ Executive Council Results February 2013 - Pastebin.com ] - http://pastebin.com
    [17:57:37] <+Chanku> I'm confused by the first couple paragraphs...
    [17:57:57] <+Eluvatar> If you notice, after all the candidates there's a "Check" column in the results sheet
    [17:58:07] <+Eluvatar> Column N
    [17:58:34] <+Eluvatar> In each round, the sum total of votes each candidates has must be the total number of votes
    [17:58:41] <+Eluvatar> which is what the Check column checks
    [17:59:14] * Chanku is a little confused
    [17:59:24] <+Eluvatar> There were 36 votes in the election
    [17:59:27] <+Chanku> okay
    [17:59:37] <+Eluvatar> If you check the Raw Ballots sheet, you'll see them listed.
    [17:59:49] <+Chanku> ok
    [18:00:04] <+Eluvatar> During each round, each candidate has some portion of these votes.
    [18:00:17] <+Eluvatar> The total of all the votes all the candidates have must equal the total number of votes cast.
    [18:00:32] <+Eluvatar> (If it doesn't, somebody's vote has been miscounted :P )
    [18:01:16] <+Chanku> So someone votes for all canidates placing them on a list using what they would prefer
    [18:01:37] <+Eluvatar> Right, as per http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/voter_ballot/
    [18:01:38] <+Zaphyr> [ Voter Ballot ] - http://forum.thenorthpacific.org
    [18:01:56] <+Eluvatar> Each candidate gets a ranking from 1 to the number of candidates in the election
    [18:02:04] <+Chanku> ok
    [18:02:05] <+Eluvatar> with ranking someone 12 being equivalent to not voting for them, period
    [18:02:10] <+Chanku> Okay
    [18:02:13] <+Eluvatar> (if 12 is the number of candidates)
    [18:02:41] <+Chanku> What if someone to were to rank all but one candidate x (Where x is the number of candidates)
    [18:03:56] <+Eluvatar> Then their entire vote would go to that candidate
    [18:04:01] <+Chanku> Alright
    [18:04:17] <+Eluvatar> and if any part of their vote were transferred, it would transfer to all available candidates equally
    [18:04:31] <+Eluvatar> .. or not at all
    [18:04:39] <+Eluvatar> depending on how that particular step is implemented
    [18:04:48] <+Chanku> Explain
    [18:05:29] * Eluvatar examines the counting code
    [18:05:52] <+Eluvatar> ( http://www.thenorthpacific.org/voter/counter.html )
    [18:05:53] <+Zaphyr> [ Enscript Output ] - http://www.thenorthpacific.org
    [18:08:00] <+Eluvatar> yeah, the way TNP counted it, it would always transfer.
    [18:08:06] <+Chanku> um...
    [18:08:15] * Chanku looks at the code and just freezes...
    [18:08:16] <+Chanku> okay
    [18:08:17] <+Chanku> then
    [18:08:29] <+Eluvatar> One could alternatively assert that if a candidate were ranked last, or not ranked at all, then the ballot should never be transferred to them, period
    [18:08:58] <+Chanku> Alright
    [18:09:07] <+Eluvatar> This difference would almost never have any effect, as obviously, the transfer doesn't advantage any candidate over another directly
    [18:09:13] <+Eluvatar> as all of them get the same fraction.
    [18:09:18] <@Wintermoot> Obviously :P
    [18:09:36] <+Eluvatar> The subtle effect the transfer has, is that it could boost a candidate over the quota, where otherwise a candidate would be eliminated next instead.
    [18:09:37] <+Chanku> Alright now what if someone ranked all but one candidates as rank 1?
    [18:09:57] <+Eluvatar> Then their vote would be distributed equally (1/11th in this case) to all candidates but that one
    [18:09:57] <+Hugsim> All of the ones ranked first would divide the vote
    [18:10:08] <+Chanku> okay
    [18:10:14] <+Eluvatar> and as each of those candidates got seated or eliminated, those fractions would be divided further and redistributed
    [18:10:19] <+Chanku> Also this is STV we are talking about..right?
    [18:10:31] <+Eluvatar> This is a particular implementation of STV which uses fractional transfers, yes.
    [18:10:46] <+Chanku> okay
    [18:10:48] <+Eluvatar> IRL, elections use random transfer, and I believe drop ballots if they are "exhausted"
    [18:10:58] <+Eluvatar> (have no more candidates ranked [higher than x])
    [18:11:32] <+Eluvatar> But as we talked about earlier, when there are only say 36 votes, randomly deciding which ballot of say 8 should be transferred can be a big deal!
    [18:11:50] <+Eluvatar> So Gulliver and I used a fractional transfer version of the system.
    [18:12:18] <+Chanku> ok
    [18:12:18] <+Hugsim> Moot, you should post all the ballots de-identified after the mock election ends
    [18:12:25] <+Eluvatar> The most common way proportional voting is done is by political party.
    [18:13:04] <+Chanku> Obviously though Wintreath doesn't have Political parties
    [18:13:08] <+Eluvatar> Which uses similar calculations to the quota calculation to distribute seats, but does not use any kind of ballot transfer.
    [18:13:11] <+Eluvatar> Right.
    [18:13:47] <+Chanku> SO that's moot I guess
    [18:13:59] * Wintermoot watches the discussion go above Chanku's head. :P
    [18:14:35] <+Hugsim> Heh
    [18:14:50] <@Wintermoot> I suspect we better go with as simple a system as possible. I was actually thinking of Lazarus's chairman election a few months back...something like that is what I had in mind.
    [18:15:08] <+Hugsim> What did they do?
    [18:15:18] * Ulkhak (Mibbit@cpe-98-28-121-245.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #wintreath
    [18:15:32] <+Eluvatar> The simplest proportional system is Single Non-Transferable Vote
    [18:15:47] <+Eluvatar> Where you vote for one candidate, and the several candidates with the most votes win.
    [18:15:55] <@Wintermoot> People voted based on preference, and after each round the person with the least votes was eliminated and those that voted for them had their second preference counted.
    [18:16:00] <+Eluvatar> With the ability to change your vote and live counting, it's reasonably fair.
    [18:16:26] <+Hugsim> Which is pretty similar to what we have
    [18:16:27] <+Eluvatar> That sounds a lot like STV/IRV/AV
    [18:16:47] <+Hugsim> We do a Quintuple Non-Transferable Vote :P
    [18:17:11] <+Eluvatar> Which is also known as block voting, and tends to result in total domination by the plurality IRL
    [18:17:40] <+Eluvatar> (If 50% of the people vote for the same candidates, those candidates /will/ take /all/ of the seats)
    [18:17:50] <+Eluvatar> (In practice this can apply for pluralities smaller than 50% too)
    [18:18:48] <+Eluvatar> It's been banned in elections to the United States Congress since 1840 because Congress panicked that State Legislatures were going to implement block voting to put in complete state partisan control of the representatives
    [18:19:21] <+Chanku> Although now they just gerrymander
    [18:19:24] <+Eluvatar> In NS, it doesn't necessarily result in such domination because there may not /be/ such a faction.
    [18:19:43] <+Eluvatar> Block voting is far more effective at turning a plurality into complete domination.
    [18:19:54] <+Eluvatar> Gerrymandering of course can turn a /minority/ into a /majority/
    [18:20:00] <+Eluvatar> which is arguably worse
    [18:20:12] <+Eluvatar> One could of course combine them :P
    [18:20:16] <+Hugsim> :P
    [18:20:31] <+Eluvatar> Draw a master district which is 60% of your party and 40% of the other party and elects 10 seats of your party
    [18:20:46] <+Eluvatar> and draw a special gerrymandered district which is 100% of the other party and elects 2 seats
    [18:21:13] <+Eluvatar> so you get 10:2 instead of 6:6
    [18:21:52] <+Chanku> Anywho
    [18:21:58] <+Chanku> changing the subject for no reason
    [18:22:04] <+Chanku> What do you guys think of my Maps?
    [18:22:10] <+Eluvatar> pretty neat :)
    [18:22:13] <+Chanku> Thanks
    [18:22:20] <+Chanku> I plan on doing more
    [18:22:32] <+Chanku> (essentially the same thing, but without the boarders or overlay
    [18:22:50] <+Chanku> I would like if someone could help me map
    [18:22:57] <+Chanku> and if more people would form nations on the server
    [18:23:26] <+Hugsim> You're pretty knowledgeable about this topic, have you studied it "for real"?
    [18:23:48] <+Hugsim> Eluvatar^
    [18:23:55] <+Eluvatar> It's my #1 issue that I care about in IRL politics
    [18:24:01] <+Chanku> I kinda assumed that Hugsim

    As a visitor who has often given voting theory a great deal of thought, your consideration of alternative voting systems drew my attention.

    While I can't post in the actual topic, I hope it's not gauche to provide some thoughts and information for your reference here. My intent is to be helpful and informative, not to steer your policy in any particular direction, of course.

    Firstly I wanted to make clear that proportional voting and preferential voting are not exactly the same thing. There's at least one proportional voting method which is not preferential, and a number of possible preferential voting methods which are not proportional.

    Specifically, the Single Non-Transferable Vote, where you vote for one candidate and the N (in your case 5, I understand) candidates with the most votes are seated, is a proportional method, but is not a preferential method. (To be clear, it can have non-proportional results, but if voters vote tactically, the results will be proportionate. This is particularly easy to achieve by allowing voters to change their votes based on the results so far, allowing politically active voters to vote for say their second choice of their first choice is doing well).

    As to preferential methods which are not proportional, there are a number of possible examples, but I don't see a need to mention them, as they have not been brought up in your discussions.

    Another point to clarify is that Alternate Vote and Single Transferable Vote are two words for the same system in different contexts. "Alternate Vote" and "Instant Runoff Vote" are a single-winner election method which is identical to the Single Transferable Vote used to elect a single seat. (In the United Kingdom it was proposed to use the "Alternate Vote" for elections within individual constituencies, which would each elect 1 MP to the House of Commons. It would not have made the system proportional, but it would have reduced the so-called "spoiler" effect, whereby say having two left-wing parties with significant support will lead to an enormous advantage in favor of the united right-wing party.)

    Secondly, I wanted to point out that TNP no longer uses the Single Transferable Vote because the elections it was used for, of an Executive Council, were discontinued. (They were at the discretion of the Delegate).

    Thirdly, speaking of STV in practical terms, there are a couple variations on it one could implement. One point on which I would generally suggest NationStates regions interested in using it not imitate real life polities using STV would be on random vs fractional ballot transfers. Because the number of votes for a candidate in a NationStates election will never be in the thousands, and will generally be a one-to-two digit number, selecting ballots to transfer in the case of meeting quota would easily lead to highly arbitrary results. On this basis, when I ran STV elections in TNP, I used Gulliver's fractional-transfer STV counting program to evaluate the results of a series of TNP Executive Council Elections:

    July 2012Results TopicCounting Sheet
    August 2012Results TopicCounting Sheet
    November 2012Results TopicCounting Sheet
    February 2013Results TopicCounting Sheet

    In these several elections, votes were cast by nations resident in TNP using this ballot page, where the link they received would automatically enter their nation name and secret ballot code, identifying them as the nation in NationStates. The ballot page shows the options in the fourth and final such election to this day. The ballot starts by defaulting all candidates as the Nth preference (where N is the number of candidates), which is basically equivalent to not voting for them at all.

    I have linked the counting sheets directly, as well as the results topics, as said topics have since been archived and cannot be viewed without registering an account on The North Pacific forum.

    How To Count The Votes
    Assuming only that the reader can peruse the counting sheets, let me explain how to find the results of an election by the Single Transferable Vote method with the Droop quota and fractional transfers.

    The first step in any STV vote counting process is to determine the quota to be elected. The most commonly used quota, the Droop quota, is pretty simple. This quota is the number of voters divided by the number of seats to elect plus one, plus one:



    Why this formula? It should make sense if one thinks first about the single-winner case. If you're electing one candidate, you know that if they get more than half of the votes, they've won. This is because, if a candidate has more than half of the votes, it's impossible that any other candidate has more. The logic is the same for multi-seat elections: if they've gotten enough votes that it's impossible that enough other candidates have more votes than them to keep them from winning a seat, they've won. For example, if one is electing to 5 seats, then the quota is effectively "more than1/6 of the votes", because if one has more than 1/6th, it's impossible for 5 other candidates to have more than 1/6 each, as that'd add up to more than all of the votes. This was the case in all of the TNP Executive Council elections, and I believe would be the case in elections to the Unterhusen.

    So, as 158 nations voted in the first such election, the quota was 158/6 + 1 = 27 (truncated). In the second, the 97 voters resulted in a quota of 97/6 + 1 = 17 (again, truncated). In the third, 45/6 + 1 = 8 (still truncated). In the fourth and final such election, 36/6 + 1 = 7 (exactly :P). (The last election only allowed forum-registered members to vote).

    Not only does the quota show how many votes one needs to win a seat outright, it's also used to make the results proportionate. Without transfers, it could easily be possible for plenty of votes to be "wasted" by voting for someone who gets well over the minimum number of votes needed to be elected. For instance, in the first STV election, about 52 of the voters listed me first, which gave me 49.95 votes (several of those voters also voted for someone else first, so their vote was split from the start), nearly double the quota of 27. The Single Transferable Vote transfers votes in this case, to avoid their being wasted.

    In that first election, I had 49.95 votes in the first round, and the quota was 27. Thus, 22.95 votes had to be transferred from my pool, to avoid their being wasted. Under Gulliver's fractional STV program, this meant that the 52 ballots (including several already fractional ballots) were each split into two parts, under the 27:22.95 ratio. The smaller part of each ballot was then transferred to their next preference: a total of 6.84 to mcmasterdonia, 4.17 to unibot, 3.69 to Romanoffia, 2.34 to KiwiTaicho, 3.03 to Govindia, 0.48 to peoples empire, and 1.85 to Abbey Anumia. With the transfers done, my total became 27, exactly the quota.

    Each round of transfers is a round in the counting of the votes. In each round, if there are candidates with at least as many votes as the quota, they are elected. (Such as the first round discussed above). However, if there are no candidates remaining who have more votes than the quota, then the candidate with the least votes is eliminated. If a candidate is eliminated, all of their votes are transferred to the candidate with highest remaining preference on the ballot. (These transfers are only fractional if the ballots have already been split into fractions).

    After repeating this process enough times there will be several winning candidates, matching the number of seats to be elected. At that point the counting process is (finally) over. Of course, when I did this, I did not spend much time counting, as I would simply run Gulliver's program. (What took a great deal of time was running IP checks on all of the voters.... Something irrelevant to this discussion here :P)

    Looking back into the records, I found that the very first Executive Council election used a very different method of counting. Implementing this method would be very difficult to do by hand, however, so I don't see it as sensible to relate much about it.

    I will be returning to revise this post to be easier to read later. If this should not be posted here, please be unafraid to delete it (I have made backup of the text for my records, in case I feel a need to reproduce it elsewhere in other circumstances).
    1 person likes this post: Jone
    « Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 08:53:21 AM by Eluvatar »

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    Wintermoot
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  • Thanks for your thoughts and input into our discussions of changing our voting system...they're appreciated, and I don't see any problem with them being posted here. I just wish I had more to respond with to such a well-constructed post. :P


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  • I confess, the very thought of handling a new voting system terrifies me.
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  • Hey Y’all! *dusts off this ancient consulate* I am Katie, your brand-new ambassador from the South Pacific! I’ve been reading through some older FA updates from this thread and needless to say: y’all haven’t seen activity from us in a long time! I sincerely hope to have great fun here in Wintreath, and I will make sure this consulate is at least semi-active again  :P
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