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Several months ago, we did a regional SWOT analysis, and you guys identified a lot of strong and weak points regarding the region...information that I'm still looking over and trying to build upon. This month, I thought we would look at a particular area of the region...regional culture. Culture is all the activities and events that make our region fun though aren't tied into any aspect of NationStates itself...roleplays, games, events, festivals, etc. Even though it isn't tied to NS, it's one of the things that should make our region fun and relaxing, and is very important in itself! I'd like to start out with asking these three questions, while also encouraging everyone to discuss, debate, and elaborate any relevant topic beyond and including these questions as seems fit.

1) Do you partake in any of our cultural activities? Why or why not?

2) What is your opinion of our regional culture?

3) Any ideas to improve our regional culture?

4) Is there a particular activity or event you would like to see in the region that we're not doing now?

Thanks! Hopefully our discussions here will help us create a better, funner region.

I'm just going to be honest.. I'll probably hurt some feelings and I don't mean to. I really like it here and I hope through this discussion we can make things more fun. I have made some good friends and I don't expect to find anyone else like you guys.. Lady Akira, Ceneria.. You two get it. We have had some amazing interactions and for you two, I'm not going anywhere... Everyone else is really cool to interact with and joke with. But the following should explain that I need a little more than that, and so do a lot of other NSers..

1) Do you partake in any of our cultural activities? Why or why not?
I try to.. I like the places you'll see thread. To be honest, a lot of stuff seems irrelevant. The superhero thing, the lich thing... Why is it so hard to do something NS related. Let me answer that.. It's not hard. I understand that people think of Wintreath as its own place. But I guarantee 9 out of 10 people who come here aren't looking to just abandon their own culture and factbooks just to become an underling and a minion.

2) What is your opinion of our regional culture?
Like I said, a lot of it just doesn't make sense to me. I guess things happened because people just wanted it that way. But you have to ask.. Why do we have 550+ nations and just the same old handful of active people. It's because the definition of active is warped to hell. We hound and hound people to sign up on the forums... Don't use the RMB.. Come onto IRC... And what happens on IRC? A bunch of weird, whimsical stuff that has nothing to do with what 9 out of 10 people are hoping to accomplish.. This IS nationstates... And I brought the same thing up to people on the NS Sports forum.. Because everyone there wants to be buddy buddy and spend all their time on IRC, but at the same time say they are too busy to start new tournaments.. Maybe its my military background.. But there's a little too much dicking around... People don't want to come on IRC just to be assaulted with a bunch of weird questions and topics.. I resent some of the questions I was asked by you know who, and I regret answering them... And why can't people RP on the RMB? I guess a lot of it stems because I'm so new. And a lot of this stuff is just the old way.. But its not like this everywhere... There are some regions that I envy so much.. That I fantasize about joining.. The way people fantasize about sports cars and hot brunettes..

They have maps set.. Boom, you join the region, you get on a map... They have people who participate in everything from the sports board, to wars to whatever. Boom, whatever you want, you can do, day one. Want to have a sports league? Boom, someone will set it up and participate. Want to trade, boom there are alliances set up so you don't have to pull teeth to get someone to rp 3 telegrams with you so you can build your factbook. A lot of the stuff I see is dry material and undynamic.. Okay, the elections are cool. That's a good thing. But once they are done, what are the other 550 nations supposed to do? Read the boards about laws that are barely understandable? Come on.. And some of this everyday bickering needs to stop. It comes from people just hanging out on IRC getting sick of each other.. And I'm tired of seeing it. I do my damndest to set up new RPs... I invite people into all sorts of shit.. And what are my responses? Oh you have to talk to person A and B and then they have to vote on it.. But guess what A and B are doing? Dicking around somewhere on IRC with zero interest in RPing at all... I haven't seen any new culture set up and I am frustrated as hell. Have you all seen how much activity goes on in the NS boards? Imagine if we had 1 fraction of that? I mean, its painfully obvious.

3) Any ideas to improve our regional culture?
This is all blending together. A lot of suggestions are above. Well let me try to make coherent suggestions.
-Have a plan for new members BESIDES getting them into your own government.
-Participate on the RMB to get new members interested without begging them to come onto IRC or the boards.
-Create groups based on interests so that when a new person shows up, they know who to connect with. If they are the type that wants to go on IRC or vote on a bunch of issues, good! But if they are looking to interact with 550 nations, we are currently false advertising.. Good luck interacting with more than 4 including myself..
-Stop ignoring NationStates... That is the game here.
-Kill the old boys club mentality.
-And simplest of all MAKE new RPs and PARTICIPATE...
-Use IRC for bringing up new ideas and when someone brings up a new idea... Don't throw in your old idea... Don't say person A is responsible or person B has a plan for that already. I could name specific examples and not one of them has started yet. I want to so badly, but I would rather not hurt anyone's feelings... Oh I already have this alliance... Oh I'm already going to start a nation game. I'm working on a map... FUCKING DO IT! Or get on board with someone who will.

I could literally write and write all day about this stuff.

4) Is there a particular activity or event you would like to see in the region that we're not doing now?
-A NS forum complete with applications, info and people showing what we have to offer.. People would flock to us.
-An RP alliance and trading block, complete with a NS forum.
-Sports leagues or mutual participation in the same events.. We could make a huge showing.
-Getting Wintreath back to being a region, with a regional government.. Not a place where people are expected to drop their nation to boost every titled person's ego. I didn't run for election for a reason. And honestly, I think I resign from the HR. It's not for me. It's a trolling type of game, even as a defender. I hate the black riders because they're a bunch of trolls. Yes, we try to restore order, but really we are just trolls to the trolls... I get it, but its not for me. It has zero to do with the military. There are huge military rps out there and I guess I have to leave this forum to participate in them and interact with other regions.. Then so be it.. I've made decent acquaintances out there too. Maybe that's what we need to do. End this isolationism. Enough with the 'poor me' scenarios about how we migrated from region A. Let's interact with the community. Show everyone how cool you are, without resorting to spamcruitment telegrams, RMB ASAP interdiction and the like.

I guarantee that if you can make heads or tails out of at least half of the stuff I say and implement it, you'll get flocks of new active members. First you have to define active. If all you want are people to participate in a government where only a handful of people can do anything, then I hate to tell you, people are going to go inactive or just leave.

If you want to really build a culture, you will have to participate in NationStates and RPing.. Isn't this an RP site? Or is it just a place to hang around and act out? I'm sorry I'm harsh.. I'm a former sergeant. I didn't make it there by tip toeing around things or pretending everything was fine. If there is a problem, you attack it, combat it and in the process, you grow.... I hope this doesn't come off as a PMSsy rant, which it kind of is... But I have the balls to say what I truly feel. And I'll take your judgements in stride.... I don't plan on leaving and I'm still glad to be here. Everyone should stay. Don't bail out. Be here to implement change.

All you people who are supposedly working on things, like maps and nation building games... Just hammer down and do it. If you're supposed to be in charge of a department, spend less time chit chatting about whimsical topics and spend more time asking what people want to do.


I hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings, but it needed to be said and it was asked. I'm not perfect, everything is for a reason, I'm just a new guy, etc... But some of this needs to be addressed. I'd love to be nice and just say "Oh let's add a renfair" or something like that. But if we really want to kick it up to our true potential, a lot has to be done.

I guarantee everyone on IRC right now saw the huge post asking for input. But did anyone else take the time to answer 4 questions? Maybe someone did in the time I spent writing this post.. But I guarantee all manner of discussion is taking place on IRC, which took the same amount of time as it would have to give meaningful input. Why is that? And like I said, its not just here.. What's so special about IRC silliness? Let's do some fucking nation building!

Let's do some fucking nation building!

I'll say it again... Let us... Focus for a few minutes... And do some real region and nation fucking building...

Don't bitch to me or tell me to leave, because really if that's how people feel, then I will leave. Some people whine too much. Since I'm ranting.. The next person I see whine to Wintermoot telling him to make someone do something, I'm going to have a conniption fit on your ass. Most of you are adults or mature teens. Handle your own business and stop being so sensitive about foolishness. "I don't wanna do this... He's picking on me.." Fucking hell, how old are we? And I just sit there, grit my teeth and bare it.

Well today, I was asked a couple questions and I answered it. I'm sorry if it looks bad. But I hope you appreciate the candor.

I just wanted to make it official how much I (and I know I'm not the only one) agree with most (if not all) of the points addressed here. As I stated in the IRC at the time of it's posting, Wintreath really needs to make it clearer to people (especially new people) what we DO and DON'T provide as a region. It's all well and good telling everyone 'we're open to anything' but that on it's own as a statement is simply not good enough. We need to start letting people know what kind of region we are. Make it clear how social (rather than 'game'/NS focussed) we are. If people want to do their own RP stuff that's fine and good but we need to be honest with them that not only will they have to start that up themselves but they're probably not going to find many here willing to help them with that. Sure, there's loads of people who SAY they want to be a part of whatever but I'm pretty sure that about 90% of them will never be bothered to get around to actually doing it or will claim to be too busy or whatever. Empty words. People would rather spend their time chatting about random stuff on the IRC. That's all well and good but we should at least be honest with ourselves that that is the case. Vang is right in that we need less talk and more action. Decide for certain what we do and don't do and what we will and won't do. This region has been sorely lacking a 'mission statement' (of sorts) for a long long time. Lack of information sharing is the key issue. I hope the post above me is the catalyst to finally see that change. We'll see.

I don't know about all that jazz...

But...with the World Cup coming up this week I would like some features on the; games, stats, news stories, etc. regarding the World Cup.

Aye aye aye, I sure opened up a can of worms.

The closest thing we have to a 'mission statement' is A Community Vision, which was written almost one month after we were founded. It's essentially where the vision is stated for a cooperative, non-political community that is open and close-knit. In that regard, I agree with Daylen that we are first and foremost a social region. This started out as a group of friends, and we've grown and taken in new friends, and I don't see that focus of our region changing. Obviously, this isn't a bad thing, and nobody seems to disagree with that. And yet at the same time I'm perplexed...Vang, you say you enjoy the community and people, and yet one of your major issues is with one of the things that make it best...its openness (or its "weird and whimsical shit", as you put it). I'm familiar with the questions Reon asks those that are new. I know they're off the wall, but they're hardly personal, and I don't understand why anyone would resent being asked any of those questions. In my own opinion, the 'weird and whimsical shit' is what makes us such an awesome, personal, and open community of friends. At least for me, that's what makes Wintreath my online home.

In the end, different strokes for different folks...from your post you seem to be fairly satisfied with the NS RP forums, and that's awesome too. I am somewhat concerned that you're having the same frustrations with other groups in NS though. You've mentioned several times on here and on IRC that perhaps its due to you having a military background, but whether you ultimately remain here or go elsewhere, you may need to learn to tolerate some "dicking around" no matter where you go, because it's always going to be around. People enjoy making friends and hanging out with them. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but regardless it's pretty much unavoidable, based on my experience in NS and other games.

I'm also going to have to respectfully agree to disagree with your views about having to be part of the NS forums. Most gameplay regions have the same level of involvement there that we do, believe it or not. There are some roleplay regions dedicated to nation-based roleplay and use the NS forums though. I can't help but wonder if those are the regions you have in mind about joining.

That being said, I agree with portions of your post. I'm not sure who told you that you had to go through so much virtual red-tape to start a RP in Wintreath, but that's just completely wrong. The way it's supposed to work is if you want an officially recognized activity...that is, an activity with its own subforum in the Howling Wind Tavern and is listed in our Activity Board on the region page, you need to see me about it, mostly so that I can create the forum and update the activity listing. At that point, you become the Organizer of the activity and it's yours to do whatever you want with. Technically official activities are under the Ministry of Culture, but this is mostly to ensure that Organizers do not attempt to cheat or discriminate against certain players. No request for a forum has ever been denied, although some activities have been discontinued due to inactivity. If you don't want those things and you just want to do a more informal activity like you already have with your alliance, you don't have to run it by anybody at all. There's no reason why people can't RP on the RMB, and if anyone has ever said otherwise, they're completely wrong.

And there can be more than one nation game, too, regardless of who is working on starting one. Technically people are free to start any activity they want...since cultural activities make our region unique and give us more things to advertise to new players, we have no interest in making it hard on people that want to run them.

It seems to me, having read your post removed from the heat of the moment in the earlier IRC clusterfuck, that a main issue is lack of clarification, communication, and activity about culture. Again, I think you've been terribly misinformed about what it takes to start new activities in the region, and I can't say I'm happy with the current activity (or lack thereof) of the Ministry of Culture. I'm also not happy that you were given the runaround when you approached the ministry about starting a new activity. As I said on IRC, I can't be knowledgeable about every potential thing people may want to do here, but we're supposed to be here to assist and provide resources for people that do have that knowledge and want to start new things. That's one of the primary jobs of the Ministry of Culture, and I apologize that you didn't get the assistance or guidance you needed there. That is a legit failure of the Executive government, and as the Executive I take responsibility for it.

I'm honestly not sure if my reply alleviates your issues or makes them worse, but I appreciate your candor and felt the need to reply with my own, even if I don't agree with all of your points. Ultimately, attempting to alter the foundation of the region or community isn't going to work, but we can make a lot of improvements that don't require that anyway. There are certainly things that need to be better clarified, and we need to ensure that government officials are active and living up to the faith placed in them to help me improve and build the region, amongst other things.

Thanks for all the posts thus far.

And JW...do you have any clue how much time it takes to add to the website? Do you have any clue how many other sites will be covering the World Cup?

Well finally someone who is supporting the same things with me, all I have to say is, that we need to reduce our urge, or better our traditional "no" towards every new idea that comes.
Like Stark's newspaper for example, that would attract many members to help, and guess what, they don't have why to be part of the goverment as well

Nobody said no to Stark having a newspaper...just that we couldn't provide a dedicated forum for it, because then we would have to provide one for everyone wanting to do a paper which would result in a number of dead forums...forums which Citizens have already asked us to streamline and do away with.

I still don't understand why he needs a dedicated forum to have a newspaper, anyways.

Well you don't have why to start a forum for each member...Simple, start a new forum, for our regions national Newpaper, with Stark on top..since it was his original idea...and members can provide articles etc, the best will be chosen to be submitted

There aren't enough people with an idea for a regional newspaper to begin with. Wuufu has his paper, and he publishes it under the Howling Wind Tavern. Stark can do the same if he wishes, or in General Discussions, I know Chanku did a few game reviews there a while back. Those are two places where they can be posted, done and done.

Well you don't have why to start a forum for each member...Simple, start a new forum, for our regions national Newpaper, with Stark on top..since it was his original idea...and members can provide articles etc, the best will be chosen to be submitted

Stark explicitly stated he didn't want his newspaper to be affiliated with the region, but rather his own private release.


But whatever, how about we steer this thread back on track.

Vang, that's a hell of a rant you got there. Upon which I will take a neutral stance. I will agree that our Ministry of Culture is not being run up to standards, in fact, not remotely up to standards. But if you can get me interested in your ideas for more RPs in one huge rant than you sure as hell can get people interested if you just take initiative on your own. Personally I'd love a nation RP/real-world war game. I'm sure if you spread the word a bit more and incited interest around the region, one could be started up no problem. One thing is for sure, I do think Culture needs a pretty hefty overhaul.

I think that above summarises most of my answers to the questions. For the first question, I am (was?) participating in The Face of the Enemy RP, which I was really excited about. I understand Nox has a lot of RL stuff she has to focus on right now which is why I've been pretty patient about it, but at this point it's been nearly 2 months since last update and I've turned my attention to other parts of the region.

And as I mentioned above, I would love to see the emergence of a Nation RP.

Then again Vang, we are a unique region. Which is what I really like about Wintreath. Even from being a member here for only a few months, I've seen more than one new citizen expecting a more-traditional government and RP region. Thing is, if you really want markable improvement in hardcore RPing, at least here in Wintreath, that'll probably be something you'll have to undertake yourself. Certainly an achievable goal.

I've made my decision. And that is I take back everything I said in the above post..

The culture of Wintreath is perfect. Improvements? We should post stats to every sports event, sort of like a newspaper. In fact, lets make a newspaper based on IRC quotes. That will be a nice wholesome activity.

Also, I think we should have a renfair... Call me Prince Vang, de la Mancha! Anything not NS related. Why would it be? This isn't a NS related forum, afterall. It's a group of friends.. Not 550 nations or anything.. But one nation under God. King Lord Wintrymoot the 1st. God King Inric himself. If you aren't one of the good ole boys in the magical friends group, then fuck you... And that is the right attitude.

Sorry for trying to answer your questions about how to make the region better. Yet I don't know why you would ask, because everything is perfect. Like you all say, this is such an active board.. Not compared to the NS diplomacy board... But compared to other good old boys clubs..

I tried being nice, but since I got treated like a jerk for it, I'll show you what a real asshole is. Keep ignoring your members. Because that is not asshole like at all... God King..

And for the record, asking about how many sexual partners someone has had is a personal question..

Nobody said no to Stark having a newspaper...just that we couldn't provide a dedicated forum for it, because then we would have to provide one for everyone wanting to do a paper which would result in a number of dead forums...forums which Citizens have already asked us to streamline and do away with.

I still don't understand why he needs a dedicated forum to have a newspaper, anyways.

But on the other hand, space has been created for other stuff though, so to say no additional forum space is being made for other stuff isn't true either. Saying that, I am past this debate.

Vang, do you want to stay in the region and try and improve it or are you leaving?

I'll update this post with my personal response to the four questions along with Vang's posts.

However - he is in effect correct. Whilst I don't have much of a problem with how open everyone here is, others might. Who are we to ask them to accept what might be shocking questions, statements, jokes and comments from us with no warning, when we know nothing about them?

Also, who asked the 'how many sexual partners' question, because I just downloaded a great program called "Punch someone in the face through the internet!" and I'm just looking for someone to try it on.

Jokes aside, we could do with toning it down on the sexuality front - Wintreath is a unique region, yes. I love and respect all of you, but I can't help but feel maybe we've been a bit lax towards new members who don't understand what they're getting themselves in for.

Sure the arguments of "why should we blah blah blah" work both ways here, but let's be the bigger side in this argument and prove that Vang's statements aren't being ignored - after all, if he's been bothered to post such an in-depth and in-detail response, the goddamn least we can do is honour it by taking it into consideration (and that's the minimal I'm expecting so there).

Sorry if I come across angry/preachy/ranty it's 2:30AM and this fucking project is a bitch. l8rz!

Vang is a prat.