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[Which faction do you side with?]

Which faction do you side with?

Imperials

11 (57.9%)

Stormcloaks

3 (15.8%)

Neither

1 (5.3%)

I Don't Play Skyrim

4 (21.1%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Since we're talking about Skyrim in SWOYM...which side do you take up for in the game, and why?

I was told to go for Imperials by my friends.

I think I'd side with the Stormcloaks.

Similar to the NCR discussion Doc and I had in the Fallout New Vegas faction thread, I think the Cyrodiilic Empire is just overextended. They need to put more resources towards Cyrodiil after their defeat in the Great War before trying to hold onto other provinces like Skyrim.

Trying to stamp out a rebellion (which leads to a civil war) would be more harmful than just allowing Skyrim's independence and asking for assistance in the inevitable war against the Aldmeri Dominion. The Imperials are just killing potential allies. And if the Empire won, Nords forced to fight for the Imperials in the upcoming war might not try as hard or might betray the Empire as payback.

Plus, the Redguards of Hammerfell were able to fend off the Altmers in the Great War, so it's not too far of a shot to think the Nords would be able to as well.

But I've sided with both in different playthroughs.

Imperials.

Ordinarily, I'd side with the Stormcloaks, but there is one key consideration here, and that is the fact that the Stormcloaks are being backed by the Thalmor.
'What,' you ask, because I'm assuming you don't know this because why would you even consider the Stormcloaks otherwise, 'why would the Thalmor back the Stormcloaks? The Thalmor hate Talos, and the Stormcloaks ride his dick like it's going out of style!'
Great question!
Read this (it's like 2 paragraphs, come on).
Well, shit. The Stormcloaks are useful idiots to the Thalmor because they weaken Imperial authority, and by asking for and receiving official permission to worship Talos, the Imperials have to stop closing one eye everywhere else and properly enforcing the terms of the White-Gold Concordat in those places, which means less Talos worship overall.
But why do the Thalmor even give a shit about Talos in the first place?
To very briefly summarize, those fuckers want the end of not just the world, but the universe, because then they can become immortal, because they think Lorkhan stole their immortality, and-you know what, fuck it, just trust me on this one. If you want an explanation instead of the vaguely stated 'trust me' that generally indicates 'I am not trustworthy', I'll attempt to prove trustworthiness by my sources, and say that here is probably the most succinct summary you'll get, otherwise start here for an interpretation, or here for some stuff on Vehk, who is key to the concept of CHIM, or maybe here if you want to delve into it at the source, because frankly this shit hurt my brain the first time round and I don't know if I ever recovered.
Oh, also they're racist against humans, but, I mean, okay they have a decent reason to be, man and mer have some pretty serious issues to work out. People broke time for a while trying to remove the elfiness from a god, there's been lots of genocide both ways, it's like two dudes who hate each other locked in a room, where every day one gets a gun and as much ammo as he wants, and then the next day the other one gets the gun and ammo instead of the first guy, and also they both keep coming back to life I guess, wow this was a shitty metaphor, but forever. It's a shitty metaphor, forever.
Metaphorever.

That's how much CHIM broke my brain. I saved you that pain, people.
Tl;dr Stormcloaks are stooges of universal nihilists, murder Ulfric and support your local Imperial Legion today in stopping criminal scum right there

I played for about an hour (?) a few years back, and spent most of the time painstakingly making a stealthy character, finding a massive battleaxe, and tossing stealth out the window. I'm pretty sure I went with the Imperial guy in the beginning part, and would end up siding with them later on.

I usually sided with the imperials. As much as I loved the idea of fighting for freedom and religious liberation, there's no way to avoid that the storm cloaks are lead by a racist who uses other people's religious indignation for his own political gain. Ulfric doesn't give a fan as to whether people can openly worship Talos. He just wants power. And he's willing to stock other nords' fears of the different races to accomplish it.

Since I always play as an Argonian I kinda have to go Imperials.

Spoiler

Imperials.

Ordinarily, I'd side with the Stormcloaks, but there is one key consideration here, and that is the fact that the Stormcloaks are being backed by the Thalmor.
'What,' you ask, because I'm assuming you don't know this because why would you even consider the Stormcloaks otherwise, 'why would the Thalmor back the Stormcloaks? The Thalmor hate Talos, and the Stormcloaks ride his dick like it's going out of style!'
Great question!
Read this (it's like 2 paragraphs, come on).
Well, shit. The Stormcloaks are useful idiots to the Thalmor because they weaken Imperial authority, and by asking for and receiving official permission to worship Talos, the Imperials have to stop closing one eye everywhere else and properly enforcing the terms of the White-Gold Concordat in those places, which means less Talos worship overall.
But why do the Thalmor even give a shit about Talos in the first place?
To very briefly summarize, those fuckers want the end of not just the world, but the universe, because then they can become immortal, because they think Lorkhan stole their immortality, and-you know what, fuck it, just trust me on this one. If you want an explanation instead of the vaguely stated 'trust me' that generally indicates 'I am not trustworthy', I'll attempt to prove trustworthiness by my sources, and say that here is probably the most succinct summary you'll get, otherwise start here for an interpretation, or here for some stuff on Vehk, who is key to the concept of CHIM, or maybe here if you want to delve into it at the source, because frankly this shit hurt my brain the first time round and I don't know if I ever recovered.
Oh, also they're racist against humans, but, I mean, okay they have a decent reason to be, man and mer have some pretty serious issues to work out. People broke time for a while trying to remove the elfiness from a god, there's been lots of genocide both ways, it's like two dudes who hate each other locked in a room, where every day one gets a gun and as much ammo as he wants, and then the next day the other one gets the gun and ammo instead of the first guy, and also they both keep coming back to life I guess, wow this was a shitty metaphor, but forever. It's a shitty metaphor, forever.
Metaphorever.

That's how much CHIM broke my brain. I saved you that pain, people.
Tl;dr Stormcloaks are stooges of universal nihilists, murder Ulfric and support your local Imperial Legion today in stopping criminal scum right there

No, I knew about this, but why does it matter? Just because the Thalmor think a civil war (not necessarily a Stormcloak victory) is good for them doesn't necessarily mean it's better that the Imperials win. They could also just be underestimating the Nords.

I usually sided with the imperials. As much as I loved the idea of fighting for freedom and religious liberation, there's no way to avoid that the storm cloaks are lead by a racist who uses other people's religious indignation for his own political gain. Ulfric doesn't give a fan as to whether people can openly worship Talos. He just wants power. And he's willing to stock other nords' fears of the different races to accomplish it.

The Nords of Skyrim as a whole care more about Nords than other races, just like the Dunmer of Morrowind care more about other Dunmer. There are no non-Dunmer rulers in Morrowind (except when ruled by the Empire). That's just the way the world is. And it's not like Ulfric is trying to close borders to other races -- he gave Dunmer refugees space inside the walls of Windhelm itself.

And after the Empire wins, nothing changes. Khajiit are still banned from cities. There is still racism.

And sure Ulfric wants power, that's the Nordic way. Might makes right. And he might not care about Talos, but its ban by the Thalmor is evidence of the Empire's weakness and the fact that it doesn't have Skyrim's best interests at heart. If Ulfric is the one it takes to stand up for the Nords, then so be it.

Oh, it wasn't directed at you personally, just a nebulous 'you' of 'anyone reading this who has not yet made their choice, or might be swayed'.
And I mean...ehhhhh. The Thalmor need murdering, and the people of Skyrim would do a terrible job of it as an isolationist independent principality, since they share no borders with the Aldmeri Dominion. As a part of the Empire, they can contribute troops to the Legion, and then go murder Thalmor.
Of course...does any of this matter? Numidium still 'assails Reality' in the Fifth Age. KINMUNE (Queen Ayrenn, Oracle Iridescent, The Witch of Wire and String, The Doom of the Dumb Old Giant, The Ayrenn Araena Aldmeri, The Patricircumcision, Crystal-like-Twitch, The Thalmoric Memo-Whore to All Enemies In The 'Set, 28th thot-box state-of-the-art half-shaft differential, Blessed Pentarch 5/5/555, Anuielectorate Article 124566324) hails from the Ninth Age (although she's in the First? Second? Third? All of them?). Both of these individual things suggest that the goals of the Thalmor are unachievable by virtue of never having happened in the future, since time fits together like a puzzle, and so the wheel of Kalpa will continue to turn until the dreamer awakes and the Dragon shatters irreversibly.

Having read none of these posts and having played Skyrim for about 20 minutes I'll say I picked the Stormcloaks because they seemed to be the ones not trying to execute me at the moment.

Spoiler

Imperials.

Ordinarily, I'd side with the Stormcloaks, but there is one key consideration here, and that is the fact that the Stormcloaks are being backed by the Thalmor.
'What,' you ask, because I'm assuming you don't know this because why would you even consider the Stormcloaks otherwise, 'why would the Thalmor back the Stormcloaks? The Thalmor hate Talos, and the Stormcloaks ride his dick like it's going out of style!'
Great question!
Read this (it's like 2 paragraphs, come on).
Well, shit. The Stormcloaks are useful idiots to the Thalmor because they weaken Imperial authority, and by asking for and receiving official permission to worship Talos, the Imperials have to stop closing one eye everywhere else and properly enforcing the terms of the White-Gold Concordat in those places, which means less Talos worship overall.
But why do the Thalmor even give a shit about Talos in the first place?
To very briefly summarize, those fuckers want the end of not just the world, but the universe, because then they can become immortal, because they think Lorkhan stole their immortality, and-you know what, fuck it, just trust me on this one. If you want an explanation instead of the vaguely stated 'trust me' that generally indicates 'I am not trustworthy', I'll attempt to prove trustworthiness by my sources, and say that here is probably the most succinct summary you'll get, otherwise start here for an interpretation, or here for some stuff on Vehk, who is key to the concept of CHIM, or maybe here if you want to delve into it at the source, because frankly this shit hurt my brain the first time round and I don't know if I ever recovered.
Oh, also they're racist against humans, but, I mean, okay they have a decent reason to be, man and mer have some pretty serious issues to work out. People broke time for a while trying to remove the elfiness from a god, there's been lots of genocide both ways, it's like two dudes who hate each other locked in a room, where every day one gets a gun and as much ammo as he wants, and then the next day the other one gets the gun and ammo instead of the first guy, and also they both keep coming back to life I guess, wow this was a shitty metaphor, but forever. It's a shitty metaphor, forever.
Metaphorever.

That's how much CHIM broke my brain. I saved you that pain, people.
Tl;dr Stormcloaks are stooges of universal nihilists, murder Ulfric and support your local Imperial Legion today in stopping criminal scum right there

No, I knew about this, but why does it matter? Just because the Thalmor think a civil war (not necessarily a Stormcloak victory) is good for them doesn't necessarily mean it's better that the Imperials win. They could also just be underestimating the Nords.

I usually sided with the imperials. As much as I loved the idea of fighting for freedom and religious liberation, there's no way to avoid that the storm cloaks are lead by a racist who uses other people's religious indignation for his own political gain. Ulfric doesn't give a fan as to whether people can openly worship Talos. He just wants power. And he's willing to stock other nords' fears of the different races to accomplish it.

The Nords of Skyrim as a whole care more about Nords than other races, just like the Dunmer of Morrowind care more about other Dunmer. There are no non-Dunmer rulers in Morrowind (except when ruled by the Empire). That's just the way the world is. And it's not like Ulfric is trying to close borders to other races -- he gave Dunmer refugees space inside the walls of Windhelm itself.

And after the Empire wins, nothing changes. Khajiit are still banned from cities. There is still racism.

And sure Ulfric wants power, that's the Nordic way. Might makes right. And he might not care about Talos, but its ban by the Thalmor is evidence of the Empire's weakness and the fact that it doesn't have Skyrim's best interests at heart. If Ulfric is the one it takes to stand up for the Nords, then so be it.

I think you're buying into the storm cloak propaganda my friend. Yes, the dunmer have a refuge in windhelm, but talking to the residents you get the impression the nords would as likely spit upon them as say hello.

Ulfric would just as likely broker peace after taking the throne as continue to resist. As long as he has his throne he couldn't care less. He's not for the Nords. He's for himself.

Perhaps the empire is not at its best. But to divide it further will do more harm than good. Divided we fall as they say

It seems to me that either way, the Thalmor are biding their time and letting both Imperials and Stormcloaks weaken each other for them. Regardless of the final outcome, once the civil war is over there's every reason for the Thalmor to launch a new war before anyone can regain their strength.

Personally I think it was foolish for the Empire to accept the White-Gold Concordat...it would have been better if they had fought on and been defeated, so that at least there would have been an unified resistance afterwards. As it is, it could be argued that the Empire sold out its principles and values, accepted an agreement crafted to stir internal resentment against it, and forced itself into cooperation against its own people in an manner reminiscent of Vichy France. You could certainly make the argument that the Empire at this time is morally bankrupt.

But that doesn't change the fact that Skyrim and Cyrodiil are stronger and more capable of resisting the Thalmor together than they are apart, and they should remain together precisely because the Thalmor want them fighting each other. As morally just as many Nords would see it, a Stormcloak victory would allow the Thalmor to deal with Cyrodill, Skyrim, and eventually Hammerfell piecemeal, safe in the knowledge that it can wage war against one without the likely intervention of the other two.

In a perfect world, the sensible leaders of both side would come together in a common cause and work to fool the Thalmor into thinking they're still fighting when they're really putting together an army to expel them in a repudiation of the Concordat. But because getting sensible leaders isn't an option, the best thing the Dragonborn can do is to quickly end the rebellion on the side of the Empire with minimal loses, and hope that the Thalmor's reaction isn't swift.

For those reasons, I've always joined the Imperials when I've played.

Although this is kind of a dead post I want to chip in and say I sided with the Imperials for a number of reasons. For one the open worship of Talos is something even as an Imperial Legionnaire I do, so the Stormcloak's point on that is moot to me. Second from the perspective of fighting the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion a united Skyrim under the Empire is far better off from a military standpoint.

But to bring a conclusion to this thread.

Every one of us can happily agree. FUCK THE ALDMERI DOMINION AND THEIR THALMOR ATTACK DOGS! *throws up double middle fingers*

Praise Talos, Long Live the Empire, and I collect the boots of every Thalmor I kill.

When you think about it logistically, it makes sense that the Empire would want to stop the war while they were ahead to recuperate their losses...

Because the elves can't

It all goes back to the Snow Elves and the Nords. Human birthrates are infinitely higher than Elven ones, and when it comes right down to it it's a quantity vs quality deal, and the Elves lost a shitton of men in the Cyrodiilic campaigns. Unlike with humans, who take about 20ish years to reach maturity and maybe another decade or two to become generals, the Altmer generals and sorcerers were hundreds, if not thousands of years old. Entire eras of precious knowledge lost forever. The entire officer corps of the Imperial Legion was replenished and replaced in the time between the Great War and Skyrim. The Dominion on the other hand? No way in fucking hell. Their army is only marginally better off than it was at the end of the war, while Imperial forces are completely replaced. The reason the Elves love the Skyrim Civil War and the Dragon Crisis so much is they know that otherwise now would be the absolute perfect opportunity for the Empire to go for Round 2 and kick their Elven asses into the sun. Stormcloaks are a detriment to the entire war effort of men and (sane) mer.

Praise Talos, Long Live the Empire, and I collect the boots of every Thalmor I kill.

Somewhat unrelated, but this is what makes TES great.