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Game Over on Round 5 Day

Root Host: Caitlinuwu

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I'm not a furry unfortunately.

Yeeting a townie is a better start than a no-lynch, if only because the info generated is far more than can be gained from night kill analysis.

And I'm not sure I could get much from one night of NKA.

Why is Rem casing themselves as being aligned with Sugar while pushing sugar.

I'm not

You're pointing out that they treated you specifically weird which was something I noticed awhile back. Them specifically aligning their thoughts with yours but not pocketing you was what I noticed actually but yeah.

and i would point that if he was my partner because.....?

I'm no wolf amateur

You didn't exactly.

But you do bus when you feel the need.

There is a difference between bussing and being the person to make the case on your own partner. If those two are aligned it doesn't feel like a buss since rem has been the main voice pushing for sugar.

I'm getting tired of reading people telling me I'm wrong in calling Sugar's post contradictory but not explaining why I'm wrong ngl

i was trying to explain in my post. i think you're misunderstanding sugar's definition of effort, applying it more broadly than they intended it. you're one of the highest effort players but that doesnt auto clear you, as opposed to some people reading you as town just because youre making the most effort (like ori did a while back) they were townreading other people who aren't highest effort players for other reasons, like agreeing with their reasoning more.

ok explain like I'm 5 how someone can agree with me, agree with the person I'm agreeing with, call them town, mae a summary of what I sid and then call me null cuz they refuse to read my effort and not have an opinion about me but have me as null

and when asked about it they brush it off instead of explaining?

honest question, because I might be tunneled but I'm not unreasonable, but all I read is "you're wrong" ok why am I wrong?

Based on reactions you do sound unreasonable. I think your being read a null because your a hard nut for them to crack which is what I am seeing, cause otherwise the null read makes no sense.

you say youd expect someone townleaning abi to townlean/have opinion on someone agreeing with abi but the agreements are so insubstantial that i dont really see it holding up at all

understandable to want to know more on why sugar said the stuff and i get the frustration with being brushed off, probably thats the biggest issue, but to me thats probably just irl stuff for the time being

it just seems overblown to me


yes it might be annoying to rehash for you but this is helping me understand the situation better

I won't lie but your interactions with rem feel off, not aligned kind of deal. It seems like your trying to egg rem on a little, your post start soft and then get really aggresive towards the slot. Like at first you tried to agree with them and then your mind changed all of a sudden.

Is there some kind of progression I am missing. Like where do you stand with rem currently?

Vote: Unvote
Vote: Loona

You threw a lot of jabs at Oricorio while parroting some of the stuff I said without acknowledging it.

In the end I don't really see a case on your end and it feels opportunistic since Oricorio shouldn't be a priority lynch here.

Why shouldnt they be the priority vote? If you say they are one of the biggest voices, I will not buy that.

Is there no way to post an auto vote count? Host hasn't been updating us on vote counts and its really hard to keep track of the vote flow with threadmarks.

are you forgetting that the R in RVS stands for Random

People use "random" for tons of things that aren't random (e.g. "I talked to this random guy today!") It's not like people pull names from a hat and then vote for them. In fact, doing that would be wolfy since you're not committing to any sort of thought process

Little do you know

also good wolves won't give a fuck whether the person is active or not

ime if anything wolves WILL prefer to go after active players because most wolves are lame and prefer to win by nuking the active players and leaving inactive or out of the loop players in the endgame to ensure an easy win

so that logic is just
not great?

Good wolves prefer to pocket active players, not go after them which can easily backfire. Especially in a game with as many slankers as this one.

are you forgetting that the R in RVS stands for Random

People use "random" for tons of things that aren't random (e.g. "I talked to this random guy today!") It's not like people pull names from a hat and then vote for them. In fact, doing that would be wolfy since you're not committing to any sort of thought process.

I'm so confused by your example
but yea people do in fact pull names out a hat during the RVS, that's kinda the whole point

vote random, see who overreacts (or lacks reaction), and then you have a brief foundation on what's worth poking or not

also good wolves won't give a fuck whether the person is active or not

ime if anything wolves WILL prefer to go after active players because most wolves are lame and prefer to win by nuking the active players and leaving inactive or out of the loop players in the endgame to ensure an easy win

so that logic is just
not great?

Good wolves prefer to pocket active players, not go after them which can easily backfire. Especially in a game with as many slankers as this one.

pocketing is a bad wolf play and kinda only works on newbies??

good mafia players will realize the possibility of being pocketed and will actually start getting paranoid of the people doing so

And yet I've made my career on pocketing people

are you forgetting that the R in RVS stands for Random

People use "random" for tons of things that aren't random (e.g. "I talked to this random guy today!") It's not like people pull names from a hat and then vote for them. In fact, doing that would be wolfy since you're not committing to any sort of thought process.

I'm so confused by your example
but yea people do in fact pull names out a hat during the RVS, that's kinda the whole point

vote random, see who overreacts (or lacks reaction), and then you have a brief foundation on what's worth poking or not

also good wolves won't give a fuck whether the person is active or not

ime if anything wolves WILL prefer to go after active players because most wolves are lame and prefer to win by nuking the active players and leaving inactive or out of the loop players in the endgame to ensure an easy win

so that logic is just
not great?

Good wolves prefer to pocket active players, not go after them which can easily backfire. Especially in a game with as many slankers as this one.

pocketing is a bad wolf play and kinda only works on newbies??

good mafia players will realize the possibility of being pocketed and will actually start getting paranoid of the people doing so

If there's no case on someone, what is there to react to? Why bot do pressuring, which actually generates reactions? RVS fucking sucks and there's a reason that good werewolf sites don't do it

Also, if you think you can't get pocketed, you are probably one of the players most vulnerable to being pocketed

I have yet to play on any site that doesn't do rvs lol

Just skimming along (too cool to read properly) and everyone's commenting on the forum being archaic or whatever, and I'm like...this is as good or better as the forums I've played Mafia on.

Thank you uwu

I definitely get the consensus that we were wrong to not vote day one in those early games.

I suppose it makes sense...maybe because most of us who played were friends we didn't want to accuse people without having something to go on first. I just remember day 1 always being awkward with not many posts because of it.

@Wintermoot

let me see if i can organize my opinion on sugar

Sugar comes to the thread and says:

-I agree with: red and oricorio not w/w. (I said i thought their interaction was not w/w)

-Abi town lean because I'm agreeing with her posts more than Rem's (Ok i asked which posts? never got an answer, I wanted an answer because I agreed with Abigail too in some points)

-I refuse to read rem's effort so null (ok why? you are reading abi towny because effort, so why not me? i ask if this is somehow a meta read because they know me. No response. I have said many times that amount of effort is not Alignment indicative for me so I'm curious)

-Then sugar puts the rest in sus because they did the bare minimum (ok now the effort thing to me sounds more personal, why not townread or engage with my points if you want to find my alignment?)

() stuff are my thoughts and as you can see it just feels fabricated, and maybe they know me but don't want me to know? or wolf partner knows me and sugar read that in their chat?  not very likely tbh I think they know me and slipped with missmatched reasons to read the people he did

Thanks for elaborating, so basically it's that Sugar Moon wouldn't try to read you while reading far less active people + Abbi and then didn't answer some of your additional questions. Understanding that there isn't much to go on with the first day, I agree with Bellepi that it'd be most helpful if @Sugar Moon would clarify why he specifically null read you despite your outstanding effort...if it's something related to your playstyle or a feeling or something you posted. But at least I better understand where you're coming from.

3. Sugar Moon
sugar seems like their home culture for mafia is def different than oricorio and i think we have similar backgrounds in mafia.
light townread for good contributions at start of page 8 although i disagree with their townread on Wintermoot for being comfortable, saying that if they were inexperienced wolf in this setup they’d be sweating buckets. Wintermoot seems plenty experienced and I didn’t see them alluding anywhere to where they might not be experienced as wolf, they said they had been in a lot of games in the old days. I could see w/w sugar and winter but i still lightly townread sugar. it could be a genuine feeling re: the sweating buckets thing esp considering the mafia culture they seem to have.

To clarify, I've played Werewolf here on Wintreath before and get the mechanics of it just fine...what I'm not so experienced at is this more hardcore style of Werewolf/Mafia with hundreds of posts a day, more analysis of little things people do and say, and so much jargon lol. Our games were a lot more casual, and that is where most of my experience is. I have to admit though, I'm not sure myself why I'd be sweating buckets either way, as the game setup was designed to be more casual anyways.

Loona/Sugar/bellepi/Rondo/Grace/Master radishes

kinda Ex but like this poe is really annoying to sort already

is this in any sort of order or no

if i had to give it an order

sugar wolf for contradictions

bellepi i personally don't like ate, and i consider ate anything that ends in "I will do things when I'm better" because i have no way of knowing if you are really sick or not, it tells me nothing and it's worth nothing, (nothing personal)

the rest are just fluff posting and/or afk

half the game

That is not ate? Bellepi post was them saying hey I am sick, i'll post more on day 2.

Where is the appeal to emotion? There is no emotion at all.

This is why I explined why i view it as such

my definition of te is probably different than most

basicly using any irl excuse for no content that I cannot know if it's true or not is ate for me

but many people will go "oh pooor thing yeah you can go rest take care"

and they are usually lying or exagerating

Rem you don't get to make up your definition for ate, it's a standard thing in the mafia. ATE requires emotion, what bell posted had no emotion attached to it.

Also, hmm I don't think I will comment on the last part of this post.

for me appeal to emotion means the person said something for the rest of the players to FEEL bad for them

and like i said it usully annoys the shit out of me.

How did we become friends I'm like the ATE goddess

Loona/Sugar/bellepi/Rondo/Grace/Master radishes

kinda Ex but like this poe is really annoying to sort already

is this in any sort of order or no

if i had to give it an order

sugar wolf for contradictions

bellepi i personally don't like ate, and i consider ate anything that ends in "I will do things when I'm better" because i have no way of knowing if you are really sick or not, it tells me nothing and it's worth nothing, (nothing personal)

the rest are just fluff posting and/or afk

half the game

That is not ate? Bellepi post was them saying hey I am sick, i'll post more on day 2.

Where is the appeal to emotion? There is no emotion at all.

This is why I explined why i view it as such

my definition of te is probably different than most

basicly using any irl excuse for no content that I cannot know if it's true or not is ate for me

but many people will go "oh pooor thing yeah you can go rest take care"

and they are usually lying or exagerating

Rem you don't get to make up your definition for ate, it's a standard thing in the mafia. ATE requires emotion, what bell posted had no emotion attached to it.

Also, hmm I don't think I will comment on the last part of this post.

for me appeal to emotion means the person said something for the rest of the players to FEEL bad for them

and like i said it usully annoys the shit out of me.

How did we become friends I'm like the ATE goddess

not something to be proud of lol, seeing as how its either frowned upon or a punishable offense

Day one starts now!!! It ends in 48 hours!

can we get an updated vote count?

I have read through all 200+ posts (in some cases again) and found a Werewolf Terminology list, so let's do this!

np

I see that's fine, I am on the other side a mafia nerd, I'm retiring to hosting mostly tho probably, but I just can't say no to Abigail

how would you resume your process as a town, even if casual, what do you normally do?

I hosted my first game last year. The whole game only had 90 posts, but I enjoyed the experience...more than playing, to be honest. But this seemed to be an important game for Abigail and Caitlin, was designed to be relatively casual, and I feel a bit bad for not being able to persuade more Wintreath people to join...so I figured I'd give it another try.

Back in the day most of the people who played knew each other (as most of you obviously do), so I would look for things that seemed out of character for them, or for people who tried to drive the game to a particular place for no apparent reason. Then as the game went on and there was more data about who'd been killed as town and wolves, I'd go back and see how that vibed with previous votes and noteworth events. I'd take a lot of notes too, especially for the crazy 500 posts a day games, but I hope it doesn't come to that here.

Upgrade nice but I'm never gonna blame you or the site or trash it when I know what you've done here

That's why I am for Werewolf UI updates if and when you can do them and don't worry too much about how long it takes

I think that's the kindest thing anybody's ever told me as Wintreath leader/admin/mod. <3

The upgrade should at least be more mobile-friendly and internalize a lot of the features we're relying on hacky mods for, such as likes, notifications, and multi-quote. it's just that...well, SMF's default skin sucks, so I have to update that, then incorporate years of customizations and expansions. Werewolf shouldn't be too bad to do...I made it later on when I was a better coder, and most of the code is actually independent of the forum code. It's just more skin-work to get the options on the topic page (vote buttons, etc).

Sorry, I don't often get a chance to talk about my work.

If I didn't know better I'd think you were a host of MoD based on your ISO this game. What are your actual thoughts on the game?

MoD? That one isn't in my dictionary. I assume you mean my posting about the technical aspects of things though...it's what I best know, I suppose, and given the chance I'd start promoting Wintreath in general. We can always use new members and Citizens in our community.

I feel like most of your posts are accusatory in some way, complete with judgements about how most players entered the game. It does come off as forceful and a bit contrived...I'm not sure that's enough for me to say you're suspicious though (although perhaps you would in my place ). Your point about pushing a game forward by applying pressure is well-taken, and feels like something Laurentus might have told me once when we were chatting about MU games. Or you could be a wolf that hopes to come off as a townlead (did I use that jargon right?). Either way, you've made yourself a center of attention for the entire round, and I'm not sure it's been to your benefit regardless of your role.

I don't understand the vote on Sugar Moon, although I'm probably just not comprehending...this game is heavy on jargon at times, and even with a dictionary it's a bit hard for me to process. @Rem mentioned his posts being contradictory, but I didn't understand how so. To some extent I wonder if he came under suspicion because he was the first to post his exact thoughts on all the active players. I haven't been able to focus on any theme behind his posts, so I don't have an opinion either way. That being said, I didn't agree at all when he said that starting out without meaningful interaction is suspicious. I can totally understand people wanting to start getting their posts in if they're busy and haven't had a chance to go over everything yet, especially when there's very little in the way of concrete facts. Not enough to cast any sort of judgement, just a disagreement.

That being said, if that behaviour continued for multiple rounds I might be more open to that argument.

It's completely irrelevant to the game, but I'm left wondering if Projekt Red is a furry (it's the "wuf wuf awooo", lol). That's not meant in a bad way, as Wintreath has an active furry community. More relevantly, I don't agree with the reasoning behind Oricorio's vote on them. Unless I missed something, Sugar Moon didn't wolfread them and went so far as to say not w/w. I don't get the idea of TWTBAW, but I gather getthing that vibe doesn't mean someone's a wolf. Anyone feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood any part of this.

Rem has come across to me as helpful, though I might be putting too much emotion into our non-game interactions on here last night. I didn't like the suspicion on Bellepi for saying that their claiming to be sick is a cause for suspicion...that seemed super-cynical, to the point of being jarring enough to write about it here. I don't know how the game is played on other websites, but if someone claims to be sick I'll take them at their word...if that makes me naive, well, I've been accused of such for far more serious things lol. Still, Projekt Red claims to have experience reading Rem in their vote, and that's probably more relevant than my enjoying some non-game centered conversation with him last night.

i caught some sort of illness and have been sleeping all the time/feeling awful so i havent really been focusing on the game as of late, i should get over it by next Day Phase cause i saw a doctor and got meds today

but ill try my best to put together thoughts before EoD today

Damn, I hope you feel better soon.

I think the most powerful phase is day 1, since it has a tendency to be the most active and like you mentioned stuff is just thrown against the wall.

Assume AI stuff was answered but if not it just means alignment indictive.

What happens most of the time is wolves just interact with each other without thinking because if you try to force yourself not to interact with your partner it just create pretty noticeable discrepancies between the slots.

That's the exact opposite of the thinking behind most traditional Wintreath games, where most people use a No Vote option because they don't want to accidentally vote off a townie and get the game off to a bad start. They reason that it's better for wolves to vote someone off because at least there's hard data to go on during the next day. Your point is well-taken though...this first day has certainly seen some dramatic moments lol.

That makes sense too...wolves would want to interact normally. It was just hard to see wolves pre-planning interactions around each other on the first day, and the consensus seems to be that that's not really a thing.

<3