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Abbi Has A Proposal
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☆ Princess Abigail ☆
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  • Alright my experience as a player who's recently gone globe trotting through numerous mafia communities has taught me many many lessons.

    The biggest one has led to this proposal. Many communities are phasing out use of the word lynch across their Werewolf games. And indeed I struggled at first to not use the word myself but over time it's become a habit now for me to not use the word. 

    Regardless of this proposals implementation this rule will now apply to all my games in full. 

    I propose the permanent ban of the word lynch in Werewolf games due to its negative connotation and association to communities of color.
    3 people like this post: Arenado, Gerrick, taulover
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    Arenado
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  • I'm not opposed to disallowing the use of the word from our games in future, certainly. I think if we started with banning the use for hosts and strongly encouraging players not to use it, within a few games, the vocabulary would inevitably drift towards more neutral terms. I certainly have no issues with this change.
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    ☆ Princess Abigail ☆
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  • Some words I've seen used in place are Elimination, Execution and lesser used Hang.
    1 person likes this post: taulover
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    Arenado
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  • Personally, I would use Eliminate, nice and euphemistic, but I don't want to compel hosts to use certain phrases, just not use certain particular terms. I'm leaning toward implementing it as a rule but I would love to hear what other people have to say first. In the mean time, I'll be looking into phrasing for a new rule for hosts and players. Thank you for your proposal, Abbi :]
    1 person likes this post: taulover
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    ☆ Princess Abigail ☆
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  • I use lim as shorthand for eliminate mostly. 

    However really anything works. My game basically says use whatever you want except lynch
    1 person likes this post: taulover
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    Gerrick
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  • Yeah, lynch is a bit yikes, and eliminate sounds better anyway. I'm for it.
    1 person likes this post: taulover

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  • I'll take it even further, I don't even like the use of the word "scum" in games.
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    ☆ Princess Abigail ☆
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  • I'll take it even further, I don't even like the use of the word "scum" in games.
    I'm fine with Scum

    Like it's definition is quite literally what Mafia is

    a vile, or low person or group of people

    That's mafia. Not the people. Nobody is calling you scum directly you are playing a game as scum. Essentially your character is quite literally scum
    1 person likes this post: taulover
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  • Some words I've seen used in place are Elimination, Execution and lesser used Hang.
    Hang seems too synonyms to me, I probably would take that off the possibility list. Elimination's ambiguity makes it the best choice in general, I think. Flavor specific words are always nice in heavily themed games. 
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    Michi
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  • I'm fine getting rid of lynch and replacing it with better words.  Like Moot I also have never vibed with the term Scum, so I'm totally cool going back to just calling the bad guys wolves or whatever they're called in the game.
    2 people like this post: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆, taulover
    « Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 08:13:01 AM by Michi »
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    ☆ Princess Abigail ☆
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  • Some words I've seen used in place are Elimination, Execution and lesser used Hang.
    Hang seems too synonyms to me, I probably would take that off the possibility list. Elimination's ambiguity makes it the best choice in general, I think. Flavor specific words are always nice in heavily themed games.
    I've been exclusively using lim lol
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    Laurentus
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  • I was against the ban on MU and I am against the ban here. It is a racially charged word in America and nowhere else. The word is short and brutal and has the exact feel it's intended to have: a somewhat unhinged mob engaging in what is essentially a witch hunt. The word scum is also exactly what it sounds like. You think the person might be part of the Mafia. Even this can be a charged term if its intention is not understood in the context of the game. Merriam Webster defines it as a low, vile or worthless person or group of people. It would definitely lend itself to being used in a discrimatory way by some of its users, probably more so than lynch. Lynch is just an action, the same as hang, beheading, execution, etc. And anyone can be hanged, lynched, beheaded, executed, not just people of colour. Banning one word really does call into question a lot of the common vocabulary used in a mafia game. I'm against it in principle, because again, these bans are often reactionary to an Amero-centric worldview. 
    2 people like this post: BraveSirRobin, Sapphiron
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  • So I looked up how often the words "scum" and "lynch" are used in our games.

    There's not much rhyme or reasons for how often "lynch" has been used in our games, though there's some interesting variation between games. I suspect that a lot of it may do with the "No lynch" vote, which became a requirement to use with the new Werewolf system in recent games. An easy way to reduce our usage of that word would be to change this option to something else. I can see both sides of the argument...on one hand, the word's use by itself isn't racist, but on the other hand in certain communities it is heavily associated with racist motivations.

    At the end of the day there's other words that can be used that don't change how the game is played. If there are people that are uncomfortable with the use of that word in Wintreath, then it would be courteous to at least discourage its use.

    Percentage of Posts with the Word "Lynch" in Werewolf Games
    2021 - Werewolf 24: Attack on Titan: 34.8%
    2018 - Werewolf 14-2: A Werewolf of Ice and Fire (The Wall): 34.4%
    2019 - Werewolf 18: Wintreath's Got Talent! - Champions Edition: 33.3%
    2015 - Werewolf 3: Yu Gi Oh Abridged: 26.7%
    2021 - Lil' Wolf I: Party On, Wolves: 24.8%
    2018 - Werewolf 17: Santa's Apprentice: 24.5%
    2020 - Werewolf 21: The Beginning of the End - 23.7%
    2022 - Werewolf 28: Just Desserts: 22.8%
    2016 - Werewolf 7: Star Wars - The Battle Forgotten: 22.9%
    2020 - Werewolf 23: A Lord of the Rings Adventure: 20.9%
    2022 - Werewolf 26: A New Adventure in Old London: 20.5%
    2020 - Werewolf 22: Of Cores and...Turrets? (Take 2): 19.8%
    2020 - Werewolf 22: Of Cores and Turrets: 14.2%
    2022 - Werewolf 25: When Worlds Collide: 11.8%
    2016 - Werewolf 6: Until Dawn - New Chapter: 6.9%
    *All other games had fewer than 50 posts with the word lynch
    **Includes words made up from lynch

    But I'm more concerned with the use of the word "scum". In a community that's supposed to be warm and friendly, and in a Werewolf scene that traditionally saw very friendly games, it's never set right with me that players call each other scum, even in the context of a game...it makes me wonder if it's contributed to the tense emotions that the games sometimes have. And it's only become prominent in our games in the last few years.

    Percentage of Posts with the Word "Scum" in Werewolf Games
    2021 - Werewolf 24: Attack on Titan: 40.4%
    2021 - Lil' Wolf I: Party On, Wolves: 36.5%
    2022 - Werewolf 27: A Golden Affair: 24.4%
    2020 - Werewolf 23: A Lord of the Rings Adventure: 21.5%
    2020 - Werewolf 22: Of Cores and Turrets: 21.2%
    2022 - Werewolf 25: When Worlds Collide: 20.4%
    2020 - Werewolf 22-2: Of Cores and... Turrets? (Take 2): 18.2%
    2022 - Werewolf 26: A New Adventure in Old London: 14.1%
    2022 - Werewolf 28: Just Desserts: 11.4%
    2019 - Werewolf 18: Wintreath's Got Talent: 9.9%
    2020 - Werewolf 21: The Beginning of the End: 8.9%
    2019 - Werewolf 20: Those of No Reflextion: 7.0%
    2019 - Werewolf 19: Just a Husk in the Masses: 6.7%
    2021 - Botwolf: Welcome to Boneville: 6.0%
    2015 - Werewolf 4: Ye Olde Arthurian Legend: 4.1%

    *All other games had fewer than 5 posts with the word scum
    **Includes words made up from scum such as scumread or scummy
    1 person likes this post: taulover


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    ☆ Princess Abigail ☆
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  • So I looked up how often the words "scum" and "lynch" are used in our games.

    There's not much rhyme or reasons for how often "lynch" has been used in our games, though there's some interesting variation between games. I suspect that a lot of it may do with the "No lynch" vote, which became a requirement to use with the new Werewolf system in recent games. An easy way to reduce our usage of that word would be to change this option to something else. I can see both sides of the argument...on one hand, the word's use by itself isn't racist, but on the other hand in certain communities it is heavily associated with racist motivations.

    At the end of the day there's other words that can be used that don't change how the game is played. If there are people that are uncomfortable with the use of that word in Wintreath, then it would be courteous to at least discourage its use.

    Percentage of Posts with the Word "Lynch" in Werewolf Games
    2021 - Werewolf 24: Attack on Titan: 34.8%
    2018 - Werewolf 14-2: A Werewolf of Ice and Fire (The Wall): 34.4%
    2019 - Werewolf 18: Wintreath's Got Talent! - Champions Edition: 33.3%
    2015 - Werewolf 3: Yu Gi Oh Abridged: 26.7%
    2021 - Lil' Wolf I: Party On, Wolves: 24.8%
    2018 - Werewolf 17: Santa's Apprentice: 24.5%
    2020 - Werewolf 21: The Beginning of the End - 23.7%
    2022 - Werewolf 28: Just Desserts: 22.8%
    2016 - Werewolf 7: Star Wars - The Battle Forgotten: 22.9%
    2020 - Werewolf 23: A Lord of the Rings Adventure: 20.9%
    2022 - Werewolf 26: A New Adventure in Old London: 20.5%
    2020 - Werewolf 22: Of Cores and...Turrets? (Take 2): 19.8%
    2020 - Werewolf 22: Of Cores and Turrets: 14.2%
    2022 - Werewolf 25: When Worlds Collide: 11.8%
    2016 - Werewolf 6: Until Dawn - New Chapter: 6.9%
    *All other games had fewer than 50 posts with the word lynch
    **Includes words made up from lynch

    But I'm more concerned with the use of the word "scum". In a community that's supposed to be warm and friendly, and in a Werewolf scene that traditionally saw very friendly games, it's never set right with me that players call each other scum, even in the context of a game...it makes me wonder if it's contributed to the tense emotions that the games sometimes have. And it's only become prominent in our games in the last few years.

    Percentage of Posts with the Word "Scum" in Werewolf Games
    2021 - Werewolf 24: Attack on Titan: 40.4%
    2021 - Lil' Wolf I: Party On, Wolves: 36.5%
    2022 - Werewolf 27: A Golden Affair: 24.4%
    2020 - Werewolf 23: A Lord of the Rings Adventure: 21.5%
    2020 - Werewolf 22: Of Cores and Turrets: 21.2%
    2022 - Werewolf 25: When Worlds Collide: 20.4%
    2020 - Werewolf 22-2: Of Cores and... Turrets? (Take 2): 18.2%
    2022 - Werewolf 26: A New Adventure in Old London: 14.1%
    2022 - Werewolf 28: Just Desserts: 11.4%
    2019 - Werewolf 18: Wintreath's Got Talent: 9.9%
    2020 - Werewolf 21: The Beginning of the End: 8.9%
    2019 - Werewolf 20: Those of No Reflextion: 7.0%
    2019 - Werewolf 19: Just a Husk in the Masses: 6.7%
    2021 - Botwolf: Welcome to Boneville: 6.0%
    2015 - Werewolf 4: Ye Olde Arthurian Legend: 4.1%

    *All other games had fewer than 5 posts with the word scum
    **Includes words made up from scum such as scumread or scummy
    It's Werewolf Moot. No matter how hard you try people are going to have tense emotions. It's the game not the words being used.

    I wouldn't even care about lynch as a word if it wasn't directly tied to the triple Ks
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    ☆ Princess Abigail ☆
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  • Werewolf is inherently going to cause high emotions. The whole basis of the game is having to defend yourself from people reading motive into every word because they think everyone is lying
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