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Hello, everyone, I just wanted to announce our latest proposal regarding hosting for Werewolf games. One issue that has been present in host selection is the difficulty in forecasting availability, particularly months from the prospective host expressing interest. It is also difficult to keep the upcoming hosts thread up to date, especially over time. To address these issues, I’m proposing a new Bidding System for host selection for Werewolf Games.

The way it would work is like this: The Thane will put up a thread asking for prospective hosts for game A, for example, Werewolf 30. They will put a timeline of, for example, 12 days for prospective hosts to express interest and lay out, in basic terms, what sort of game they are planning.

After this, the Thane will, using various metrics, choose the host for the Werewolf game. Things that will be used by the Thane include if the prospective host had previously hosted a game recently (to allow the chance for newer hosts to host games), the type of game the host is planning (to keep an even balance for more vanilla and more complex games), and experience in playing Werewolf (so that we can get hosts who are at least familiar with the game).

Using this system should allow for streamlined host selection processes, allow for games to be planned and proceed on a consistent schedule and allow for an even balance between more vanilla and more complex games.

Please let me know what you think, any comments, thoughts or suggestions are always more than welcome! Thank you for your time and I hope you have a pleasant day.

I really don't like the idea. Hosts being selected by the acting Thane is easily susceptible to bias, extremely limiting to hosts and could lead to problems within game creation

Especially for someone like me who as a host regularly switches ideas during or even after the creation of my game 

If I'd bid for WW30 my current hosting slot than I would've bid using my Your An Idiom idea but after completion of the game I looked it over and decided it needed much more work than I could put in and switched my design.

Another issue to my particular hosting style and others as well is that at least a few of us very much like keeping many aspects of the design secret. Michi wouldn't have ever been able to run his game under this design. 

I think the current system is workable. We have sustainable interest. Hosts can move around as needed. If for instance TGN couldn't host his game right now my game is close enough to completion that I'd willingly swap slots with him. I think there's almost always a host with a game done and ready. 

I will have several If I ever get off my lazy ass and write lol I have several ideas.

Adding on I also don't like restricting hosts to experience.

Anyways I know I have an issue with disagreeing with things without meaningful alternatives so I will propose one 

I am more than willing to run and update an updated Upcoming Hosts thread. I have the time and the desire and ability to keep it updated daily.

To address the continuous hosting issue I propose hosts be given a minimum time between games they are allowed to host. If a game slot remains unclaimed then a host may skip the line if they have a game ready but that will reset their timer for the next game they host.

I propose that if a hosts game is not ready they be allowed to switch games with another host. If that host is still within their host timer it will reset the timer. 

I propose anyone regardless of experience be allowed to host but that those with limited experience in game be required to have a cohost until proven they have a sufficient understanding of game mechanics to host alone. I think some people are just creators and not players. I sometimes wish that my only involvement in Werewolf since I joined was in a creative capacity and not ever as a player.

I propose that the slots have a preset condition such that vanilla games continue to happen regularly. For instance game 29 and 30 are bastards game 31 is required to be vanilla. I do believe many hosts prefer to host bastard role madness games and I think the schedule should allow for those games to happen more regularly but not at the detriment of vanilla games

I think that's about it. 

Like I have thought about hosting vanilla but everytime I set out to do it I can't help but evolve the roles

With that said I think I'm going to work on a vanilla game after 30 and put my creative brain to use on a deep story instead of deep roles.

Also also I have some evolutionary ideas for my Werewolf Game that I think are beneficial not only to the way I host but possibly to all bastard hosts.

Allow to to try and address your concerns.

First, when I mean basic, I mean really basic. Basically, I just want to know the general vibe and intent of the game. For example, with Werewolf 28, I would say "I intend to host a decently complicated game for a minimum of 10 players." Or, if I used the recently codified Ratings System, "I intend to host a level 3-4 game for between 10-15 players." Basically, I want to know the intent of the game, nothing more. Will it be more open and accessible for newer players? Will it be more complex and better suited for more experienced players? Since part of the goal of government in supporting hosts is attempting to advertise to potential players, knowing what basic type of game and what players to advertise too is germane information, especially since such basic information is typically shared well before a game is ready to be hosted.

Second, while I appreciate your offer to manage the upcoming hosts thread, its not a solution. Putting that on one person's shoulders is what happened before and it faltered. We can't know what's going to happen in a week, a month or more. There could be periods of inactivity from you or from any person who manages it, putting us right back where we began. And with the system I'm proposing, it would allow for more dynamic hosting options without putting that responsibility on one person, which brings me to my final point.

Finally, I understand your point about bias and the potential for things to grind to a halt if a Thane goes inactive, it is a concern I share. My solution to this is to create a council or committee that will share the responsibility of seeking hosts and selecting bids through a vote. I want a council of 3-5 prominent members of the Werewolf community in Wintreath who all chose the next host together and who may step in if one member, such as the sitting Thane, goes inactive and requires someone else to put up the thread. Now, this idea would address concerns of bias and potential inactivity and it is one of the projects I am going to work on after this proposal is implemented, if it is implemented. The council/committee idea is very much in its genesis and, as such, there are no specifics to share about how this proposed body would operate, but it is the direction I want to head in to create a more inclusive and participative Werewolf community.

All in all, I do think this is the best path forward for Werewolf in Wintreath. I do appreciate your feedback and I hope I've at least addressed some of your concerns. If there are any other questions or comments I would, of course, be more than willing to listen. 

To me at the very least this feels like a more complicated version of the thread. 

I know I am capable of maintaining a thread basically forever but I understand your concern. 

With that said I've laid out my worries what happens now is up to you and the others in government

However I hope any system like this would not be implemented until all hosts who've already claimed their spots are permitted to run their games

Which at this point I believe is TGN Silv and Me but with Silv stepping back it is TGN and Me I believe

However I hope any system like this would not be implemented until all hosts who've already claimed their spots are permitted to run their games

Oh, certainly, I intend to honour the games currently scheduled, TGN is hosting WW 29 and, if you would still like to, WW 30 is yours.

However I hope any system like this would not be implemented until all hosts who've already claimed their spots are permitted to run their games

Oh, certainly, I intend to honour the games currently scheduled, TGN is hosting WW 29 and, if you would still like to, WW 30 is yours.

Yes I've spent an ungodly amount of hours on this game...

I desire host. I need the payoff. I've redesigned this game at least 13 times.

And like... quite literally worked in a whole new system... fir me anyways its probably been done elsewhere honestly lol

I'm also kinda on the fence with this.  On paper it sounds like a phenomenal idea since it'd be a great way to vet hosts and make sure host to host transition between games goes smoothly and makes sure we're getting different folks each game, that kind of stuff.

Like Abbi though, I'm worried about the execution of this being needlessly complicated.  Yes the Upcoming Hosts thread can be work to keep up to date, but this sounds as if it'd be more work versus less since it'd be putting more on the Thane versus it being a collective effort to keep things updated like it is now, since anyone can update things when they want to and it doesn't have to be soley you, Neon, or myself doing it (which goes for the op in there as well since myself or you/the current WW thane can always edit it).

Likewise I worry about folks who may not want to host right now, but may want to host a future game.  Those folks tend to feel much more comfy claiming a future slot down the road and planning their game for around that time versus building it now in hopes that they'll be able to win the spot for an upcoming game...and if anything, if multiple people are clamoring for the same slot and the one person never gets it, that's going to potentially turn away what could have been a great future host permanently.

A good rule that 10KI had which I'd be happy to borrow when we're in a comfy area with enough hosts is that the current host has to wait at least 5 games before they can host again (unless we're starving for hosts).

But yeah, that's kind of where I stand.  Sounds great on paper, but I worry about it in practice.

I personally like the proposal. I've had a few game ideas that I've been throwing about in my head, but I worry about claiming a game in the future when the timeline ends up not really working out since there isn't a defined time when each game would take place. This proposal would then allow me to just bid for the game when I think all the details are ready and there's an immediate opening for a game to be hosted. It would also give newer hosts an easier chance to jump in as well rather than having to claim a future game that might not actually take place for the better part of a year or even longer. On top of that, for people who have been developing their game in the current system and their game is not totally ready yet when it's their turn, they would either have to go into the game without it being just right or have to delay their game, which alters the lineup of upcoming hosts anywa.

The only potential downside I see is that a person gets their game repeatedly declined because other people bid games that end up getting chosen instead, but I suppose that would be up to the Thane to take into account, so I'm not too worried.

Ultimately, I share Michi's concerns about complication. It feels like we're both saying that maintaining the Hosts topic is too burdensome and that we should replace it with a system that's even more burdensome, to the point that we may need a committee to run it fairly. I don't doubt your personal ability to stay on top of it, but I have to wonder if future Thanes of Werewolf would be as attentive to it.

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

What if we did away with the Hosts topic entirely? Instead hosts could start a topic (which would be unnumbered at this point) once they had a basic theme and premise. It would allow people to weigh in if they wanted, but it lets people know that a game is being developed. Then once the host felt like they had sufficiently developed the game, they could open it for sign-ups. We could have a rule that if a host wants their game promoted by the government, they must leave sign-ups open for a minimum amount of time (unless they fill all the slots they want with players) and use the Werewolf rating system. Then once the game is ready to start they receive their number, the topic title is updated, and away we go.

This way hosts can discuss and develop their games ahead of time without having to claim a spot in the process. Then they can open the game up to players, and the number of players in the game determines when it starts. I would hope that hosts would work amongst themselves to prevent conflicts as they have in the past, but if things don't work and we have two competing games at the same time, then the players are the final arbiter of which game happens first. If we need to force something like that, I can update the Werewolf system to allow for only one active non-test game at a time. But if the scene grows, the time may come when we can successfully run multiple games at the same time. We've had enough players in some of our largest games that they could have been split between two games and both games still be successful. That's something we should consider for the future, too.

I've never hosted a game, but I just thought I'd put that out there as a minimalist alternative.

I will continue to say that I can maintain a thread by myself. I can do it,  this isn't a complication. 

Anyways to assuage Gerricks fear one thing I really really wanted to add to the Upcoming hosts thread was a section where people who are working on a gave but aren't ready to claim a spot may Note their game is being worked on and than may claim a game once their game is ready. 

I can build a quick outline of how I personally would build a new upcoming hosts thread

Upcoming Hosts

Werewolf 29 (approximate start date): Host Name
Game Info
Game Style: Bastard


Werewolf 30  (approximate start date): Host Name

Game Info

Game Style: Bastard


Unclaimed Slots 

Werewolf 31  (approximate start date): Host Name
Game Info
Game Style: Must be Vanilla


Werewolf 32  (approximate start date): Host Name
Game Info
Game Style 



Games in Development

Werewolf Game by Gerrick

Werewolf Game by Neon


Canceled Games

Werewolf Game by Neon


Hosts on Standby for Unclaimed Games 

Neon

Michi


Hosts On Time Limit

Michi (From Werewolf 29-33)