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We're getting very close to formally establishing the Landsraad, and one of the final steps is to determine how we're going to select a chancellor. I originally thought that I would appoint the first chancellor and the Landsraad could consider that question later, but I see no reason not to figure it out now as the final legal adjustments are going through the system so the Landsraad can hit the ground running.

The floor is open to thoughts, suggestions, and discussion.

I say appoint someone as Chancellor for now. Then we can just have it be an elected position where elections are held at the same time as the ones for Thanes and Alders. That would make the first Chancellor election in June (in about a month and a half), right? Or skip the June election and have the first one be in September if necessary.

That's assuming we end up doing regular elections, as opposed to something like a challenge system which I've seen done in open assemblies.

I don't mind having the discussion now...as you say, the June elections are in a month and a half, and we're not in any hurry.

Huh, a challenge system -- hadn't thought of that. How would that work?

Presumably like, a Vote of No Confidence thing, so they just get to keep on keeping on until someone goes, like, 'aight, your rule is staid, boring, and nothing is being accomplished, I wish to take the metaphorical throne and change things up'.

Yeah, from what I remember starting a set amount of time after the person takes office anybody can challenge them for the position. That triggers a period where others can stand, and after so much time there's an election. After someone wins the election, whether it's the incumbent or one of the challenges, there can be no other challenge for that set amount of time.

The Rejected Realms uses a mixed election/challenge system for their Delegate and Officers, as detailed in their Constitution (Article 8). Osiris used one at one time, but from what I remember it was scrapped cause it was feeding into the toxicity of the community at the time. There are probably other regions using it, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

The Rejected Realms uses a mixed election/challenge system for their Delegate and Officers, as detailed in their Constitution (Article . Osiris used one at one time, but from what I remember it was scrapped cause it was feeding into the toxicity of the community at the time. There are probably other regions using it, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

Yeah, my initial thought on such a challenge system is that it might feed into toxicity.

I feel like selection of Chancellor should be left up to the Landsraad, in which case it would be best determined after the Landsraad already exists.

The Landsraad already exists, as it's made up of all Citizens, who already have access to this forum. We're just ending a process for making the existing laws compatible with the new system. What's the benefit of waiting further?

Personally I think regular elections would be preferable as it continually shakes up the status quo without it feeling personal if someone wants to challenge the sitting chancellor. But I suppose a challenge could work in place of a vote of no confidence. 

The Landsraad is only provisionally open on a limited basis right now, with you making all the decisions. I think it makes more sense for the Chancellor selection process to be decided by the Citizens themselves after the framework has been formally revised to allow that.

@taulover: I don't feel that I'm "making all the decisions", I'm just determining what the consensus is. I really don't have a dog in this fight, I just think it's more efficient to have the discussion now since we have a few days before the last legal update is finalized.

Based on the consensus so far (admittingly made up of you and @Gerrick), it seems like things are leaning in the direction of regular elections, with maybe a challenge system as a vote of no confidence/recall process. Is that correct or am I off?

Oh yeah, reading the Discord feedback there's also the option to make Laurentus "Chancellor for all eternity" or to make Doc "Supreme Chancellor".

I would support First Citizen Laurentus, but I would also be pro Supreme Chancellor Doc

Yeah, from what I remember starting a set amount of time after the person takes office anybody can challenge them for the position. That triggers a period where others can stand, and after so much time there's an election. After someone wins the election, whether it's the incumbent or one of the challenges, there can be no other challenge for that set amount of time.

The Rejected Realms uses a mixed election/challenge system for their Delegate and Officers, as detailed in their Constitution (Article . Osiris used one at one time, but from what I remember it was scrapped cause it was feeding into the toxicity of the community at the time. There are probably other regions using it, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

Karma uses it too for their Yogi and Prime Yogi.  Prime Yogi is originally elected by their established members, Yogi is appointed by the PY.  Both are in office until they step down or are fired, but can be challenged at any time and put through a vote of confidence/no confidence by any of those same established members (known as the Enlightened).

@Michi: Do you know if they've had any issues with toxicity or drama over using a challenge system?

@taulover: I don't feel that I'm "making all the decisions", I'm just determining what the consensus is. I really don't have a dog in this fight, I just think it's more efficient to have the discussion now since we have a few days before the last legal update is finalized.

Perhaps (though from my perspective, it still feels like you're ultimately making the decisions, even if you're taking consensus into account as it appears from your perspective and following it), but I think there's still something fundamentally different to have the Monarch determining the specific rules as opposed to the people. With how low-stakes this is I think it's fair to trade some efficiency for symbolism.