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[Do you want to start lynching by majority this round?]

Do you want to start lynching by majority this round?

Yes

7 (87.5%)

No

1 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Voting closed: February 24, 2021, 10:57:44 AM

Hope you don't mind if I ask for an explanation about the votes on Sapphiron right now? Genuine question, it's just that I haven't really formed a strong opinion on them yet.

Hello guys, I’m from Bulbagarden and from here I only know of ExLight, Minish and Vroendal. It’s going to take a while for me to read the game and get my groove on. In the meantime can somebody give me a bit of notes of what went on? Day 2’s lynch was a scum lynch - what helped achieve that?

To be honest after going over some of the Day I realize that this synopsis is very heavily subjectively based, and I'm wondering whether it's useful to even accept this as a post, as it comes to a WIFOM argument of whether you should pay attention to it or not because it's too influenced by my personal perspective. If you think it's useful to read what I remember to see my personal viewpoint, I'll make D2, but both days were such a tangled mess I feel you would get a lot more value by reading it through from your own eyes. There's just too much room for error of who would find what significant.

Like actually, I made this to keep part of my promise, it's trash though. Don't read it. Literally just ignore it.

D1 synopsis (influenced from personal perspective)

I know you've most likely already gone through D1, but as a refresher for myself and others, D1 started as a chaotic mess with a slurry of joke votes and wagons all over the place. There was more significant discussion on Hapi's chaotic playstyle making her a good lynch, and why lynching D1 was a good idea. The turning point of the day I feel was when I tried to figure out a vote on any of the current wagons through actual effort in justification and made this post (which conveniently lays out the past votes of the day, huzzah, less work) -

Well, many hours have elapsed and not a great amount has happened.
As a reminder, currently the order of votes have gone like:
Red Mones - Hapi (For a joking comment)
Hapi - RM (In retaliation)
Hapi - Melehan (Given reason to fulfill the prophecy)
RM - cozmikrae (For the same joking comment as Hapi)
Wintermoot - NyghtOwl (Saw the more senior members as likelier to be scum)
Doc - Silv (Given reason as Doc's scum curse)
Vroendal - Sapphrion (Given reason as RNG)
Michi - Gerrick (Michi's opinion is wrong and he's a bad person)
Sapph - TGN (Given reason "for all the reasons you guys voted each other")
Mel - RM (Paranoia from Mel's references, immediately unvoted)

The wagons are rather spread out atm with a majority on Hapi and RM with 2 votes. The most convincing reason up here right now to me is actually the vote on Michi oddly enough XD, in the past games he's been among the first to vote, this change in tactics requires more explanation. I'm aware this will make the majority split three ways, still a good amount of time left.

Vote - Michi

It should be noted that I had miscounted and with Red's switch of votes there was only a majority on Hapi. This prompted research into Michi's past games from various players (including himself) where it was found that in the three most recent games his meta had been a earlier votes (one as a retaliation joke vote, which I mean, still counts as an early vote no matter how you twist it) as 2 town aligned roles, and his 1 scum game showed that he voted much later in the day. His other games took place more than a year ago. This prompted votes/pushes at various points in the day from Ruguo, Wisch, and Minish, while some stated their discomfort with a wagon instigated by meta. Melehan made a push against cozmik for what she viewed as suspicious reasoning and voting patterns. Michi presented his defense, which I personally found fault with, but further promoted stated discomfort in his vote from other players. At some point Red was pushed by Minish for defending cozmik. I tried to draw him out more, and unvoted him, he presented more defense which included refusing to state perspectives on other players and suggesting night action choices from the Seer which prompted me to double-down and vote him again. At this point there was one less vote on Hapi prompted by wagonomics reasoning from Doc. After Hapi stated discomfort in Michi's lynch, I made a last-minute decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip. Hapi was lynched, and flipped villager. There's more I could go over but this is just a synopsis from my memories and skimming the Day Phase. The voting ended with these choices -
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones    - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)

I spent much more time on the Michi dilemma rather than the Hapi votes, as this is what mainly led to the next day's events.

I know somebody describing a synopsis for somebody else can have bias - everyone's opinion is influenced by their perspective which affects how they tackle challenges to change the world around them.

You don't necessarily have to keep your promise, neither do you have to treat it like trash.

Thank you for taking your time Vroendel . I will try to return the favor later on in the game with more effort.

Hmm, her vote kinda helped shift from Vro to Silver though hmm
funny I'm less confident of her possibly doing that as scum than Sapph due to the supposed lack of experience with forum mafia

Are you talking about my vote?

So I was feeling like Vro's quick decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip was suspicious. He made a few heartfelt pleas for his innocence that seemed convincing. And since TGN seemed like he was turning over a new leaf with quitting the jokey/mysterious votes I was left with no vote and no really convincing leads. I pushed Ruguo a little bit, he wasn't very convincing. Mel then pointed out that Ruguo had been on 2 wagons (that I believed would have been mislynches), Vro's and Michi's I think. I largely disbelieved the whole Michi debacle, so regardless of the coaching, I voted for Ruguo.

Now that coaching was the saving grace for both Ruguo and TGN. But since Ruguo flipped red, it makes me see it differently. It was definitely a show, whether for both their benefits or not, I'm not sure.

Vro's voting and unvoting still remains questionable to me , after all , if he turns out as a scum , he will have the best knowledge about lynch consequences . Either way , I have strong gut feelings , that Vro will be lynched in all certainty . Ig everyone would be happy to remove one suspect of the list of scum than keep one hoping him to be innocent . Sorry Vro if this hurts u , but u made a bad name for urself. I hope u understand whatever the play is here , u have drawn far too much suspicion

this post raises !!! in my head

“ye bro sorry if you’re good man you brought it on yourself not because our thinking could be wrong”

This was a decoy sort of post i would say . What i was looking for was retaliation , which unfortunately took place before this post as many cited Vro's chance of being a townie and no one . I looked out for people who did not retaliate , because even after the best defenses and clarifications i stubbornly stood on my words , and said things as if it was fixed that Vro will be lynched by the town . The post did not go very well , as i did not receive counters until now , and here I am justifying why i did it . It was just a measure to clear out some people out of suspicion momentarily

Looking for retaliation makes sense. This post makes me feel a lot better about you. Your late vote on Ruguo at the end pings me, but... ehh?

Hope you don't mind if I ask for an explanation about the votes on Sapphiron right now? Genuine question, it's just that I haven't really formed a strong opinion on them yet.

I think only Minish is on him right now as I moved to TGN, so I don't think it's worth pursuing it right now.

Her logic was that BSR and Sapph aren't aligned, plus she felt like Silver was attempting to distance him.

Mine is mirror hers, but also because I'm aware Sapph is a high tier player and his content has been lackluster to borderline scummy. I'm not seeing a big amount of collaboration in scumhunting (and I know I'm not the only one because Wischland?/Wintermoot? pointed it out at one point too), with his main contribution only been kinda surfing on the Silver train to get a bit of suspicion off his back. And god, oh god that post he made that I quoted earlier in the Day just makes me go AAAAAAAAAA.

I don't know tbh. He seems to be new to mafia and new to this site. So it's possible.

oh hmm
still, I don’t think this changes much for me

in any case even if it was a derp he would have both Lau and Silver in the scumchat which makes more sense to me than him only getting dms from Lau and thinking silver is the host

Ohhhh, I did like this post you're right.

That's true, not correcting you looks really bad for me right now, since the reasoning from your post actually implicates me as the actual subject of TGN's derp. I don't have an excuse, and I'm not sure why I even liked the post, I might've misread?

Yea, it makes me raise an eyebrow. In case I'm more interested at TGN/Sapph than you rn.

Hmm, her vote kinda helped shift from Vro to Silver though hmm
funny I'm less confident of her possibly doing that as scum than Sapph due to the supposed lack of experience with forum mafia

Are you talking about my vote?

So I was feeling like Vro's quick decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip was suspicious. He made a few heartfelt pleas for his innocence that seemed convincing. And since TGN seemed like he was turning over a new leaf with quitting the jokey/mysterious votes I was left with no vote and no really convincing leads. I pushed Ruguo a little bit, he wasn't very convincing. Mel then pointed out that Ruguo had been on 2 wagons (that I believed would have been mislynches), Vro's and Michi's I think. I largely disbelieved the whole Michi debacle, so regardless of the coaching, I voted for Ruguo.

Now that coaching was the saving grace for both Ruguo and TGN. But since Ruguo flipped red, it makes me see it differently. It was definitely a show, whether for both their benefits or not, I'm not sure.

That's really fair, I can see the logic behind that, and seems natural enough. Twas more of a momentary thought tinfoil, don't mind it too much lmao.
On a second thought it doesn't really make sense to pair you with TGN if he flips scum considering you're voting him rn, tbh.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE ONE POST
ALL OF THAT WAS UNNECESSARY!
all of that could have been in one post

also
What if I'm not a wolf? then what is your plan.
There are other people doing sus things but you decide to push me?
And your unvote? You see I'm gaining votes, maybe the person you voted for was your scum buddy, then you saw I got votes then made ~3 posts about me. Kinda sus

I skimmed the thread as fast as I can so I can go to bed:

HumanDawn comes in and starts immediately solving which I think is a great look and I agree with most of their assessments (full reads + explanations are coming from me but it's taking longer than expected). Probably my top town read right now.

So from a mind meld basically?

Town
HumanDawn

Why? I have barely touched the game.

Can I get a quick vote count please? (in case somebody has been taking count)

TGN looks like he is about to be lynched - I don't feel confident pushing this but admittedly I don't have as much of a grasp of the game as other players so my opinion may be moot in who we should actually lynch. I don't buy that the whole thing was distancing. From my experience, how Ruguo coached TGN seems familiar of how I've seen scum coach town in how they act overly friendly. Ruguo would have had more success in trying to be combative to TGN to distance rather than give advice. Maybe you can argue that it's WIFOM and that's what they wanted me to think, but it's not the impression I'm getting at least.

@cozmikrae - Could you link me to the post that shows Ruguo linking himself to TGN?

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE ONE POST
ALL OF THAT WAS UNNECESSARY!
all of that could have been in one post

also
What if I'm not a wolf? then what is your plan.
There are other people doing sus things but you decide to push me?
And your unvote? You see I'm gaining votes, maybe the person you voted for was your scum buddy, then you saw I got votes then made ~3 posts about me. Kinda sus

Lol. Any Wolf can say "what if I'm not a wolf?" in an attempt of fear mongering Town, and it's as silly as someone being held on trial saying "ok, but what if I'm not guilty?" to the judge. If you wanted to make yourself look like a Town player you could've spent more energy not memeing nor wobbling around just only defending yourself -and only yourself- and instead focused on helping finding other Wolves.

And in case you get lynched your flip will provide information too. No matter which alignment you flip, it will help us reanalyze the wagons from previous days (specially D2), and the interactions people had directly and indirectly with you. Your self preservation hardly matters more than your team's, and you should've kept that in mind throughout the whole game.

If you want to help Town go in the right path you can start making an updated readlist telling your thoughts on the living players for us to work with during the next Phase.

Hope you don't mind if I ask for an explanation about the votes on Sapphiron right now? Genuine question, it's just that I haven't really formed a strong opinion on them yet.

I think only Minish is on him right now as I moved to TGN, so I don't think it's worth pursuing it right now.

Her logic was that BSR and Sapph aren't aligned, plus she felt like Silver was attempting to distance him.

Mine is mirror hers, but also because I'm aware Sapph is a high tier player and his content has been lackluster to borderline scummy. I'm not seeing a big amount of collaboration in scumhunting (and I know I'm not the only one because Wischland?/Wintermoot? pointed it out at one point too), with his main contribution only been kinda surfing on the Silver train to get a bit of suspicion off his back. And god, oh god that post he made that I quoted earlier in the Day just makes me go AAAAAAAAAA.

I don't know tbh. He seems to be new to mafia and new to this site. So it's possible.

oh hmm
still, I don’t think this changes much for me

in any case even if it was a derp he would have both Lau and Silver in the scumchat which makes more sense to me than him only getting dms from Lau and thinking silver is the host

Ohhhh, I did like this post you're right.

That's true, not correcting you looks really bad for me right now, since the reasoning from your post actually implicates me as the actual subject of TGN's derp. I don't have an excuse, and I'm not sure why I even liked the post, I might've misread?

Yea, it makes me raise an eyebrow. In case I'm more interested at TGN/Sapph than you rn.

Hmm, her vote kinda helped shift from Vro to Silver though hmm
funny I'm less confident of her possibly doing that as scum than Sapph due to the supposed lack of experience with forum mafia

Are you talking about my vote?

So I was feeling like Vro's quick decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip was suspicious. He made a few heartfelt pleas for his innocence that seemed convincing. And since TGN seemed like he was turning over a new leaf with quitting the jokey/mysterious votes I was left with no vote and no really convincing leads. I pushed Ruguo a little bit, he wasn't very convincing. Mel then pointed out that Ruguo had been on 2 wagons (that I believed would have been mislynches), Vro's and Michi's I think. I largely disbelieved the whole Michi debacle, so regardless of the coaching, I voted for Ruguo.

Now that coaching was the saving grace for both Ruguo and TGN. But since Ruguo flipped red, it makes me see it differently. It was definitely a show, whether for both their benefits or not, I'm not sure.

That's really fair, I can see the logic behind that, and seems natural enough. Twas more of a momentary thought tinfoil, don't mind it too much lmao.
On a second thought it doesn't really make sense to pair you with TGN if he flips scum considering you're voting him rn, tbh.

Ah, that makes more sense. Thank you. I'm not sure how I'm feeling about lynching BSR right now, especially since one of the major arguments for it is an information lynch, which are usually not great ideas (although to be fair I think it may be acceptable here because of the high number of mislynches we have at our disposal. I'm not sure what the community's stance on info lynches are but I'm currently not really interested in voting there yet and would like to find a better vote).

Speaking of vote, I'd like to put mine here for now:

Vote: Imaginative Kane

This is the person I feel is most likely to actually flip wolf based on what I'veread so far, I'll explain my case shortly.

Regarding Sapph - again, this is from a quick skim - I see the appeal of this lynch from the points of them being a more powerful player, so they should make more of an impact from the posts they've been making. While I haven't seen it for myself, more than one player has pointed it out, so the odds of scum making stuff up about Sapph is low. I think if I remember right, ExLight, Minish and Red Mones have the biggest issue with Sapph - all of whom are three experienced players. My gut tells me that it seems a bit too easy and this could be a set-up mislynch, but then Sapph's content hasn't given me the impression to be much to write home about still. There's a set of players who I can remember and relate content to better than other players from such a large game, and I can't remember much of Sapph.

BSN I can't remember anything of at all, and that's partially my fault because I don't have enough energy to care about the slot.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding dense here, but I don't know why Nyght is a top Town for Minish too? If there is Town PR suspicions so that makes them Top town, making them top town like that without any explanation raises eyebrows for scum to pay attention to and just be counterproductive, especially when I can't remember much of Nyght? If I recall correctly... at one point in Day 1 votes were piling on Hapi (or maybe it was Michi? please bear with me here lol...) and Nyght voted for Vroendal (...?) who was the second top wagon, while not acknowledging the wagon with the most votes. They might have posted a reads list later? I need a second read to get my foot in the game to get everything straight.

Can I get a quick vote count please? (in case somebody has been taking count)

(...)

@cozmikrae - Could you link me to the post that shows Ruguo linking himself to TGN?

Gerrick (1) - Red Mones
BraveSirRobin (3) - Sapphiron, Gerrick, Vroendal
Sapphiron (1) - Minish
TGN (3) - cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight
Imaginative Kane (1) - Legacy of Smiles

Why are you asking only Coz for the interactions?

I skimmed the thread as fast as I can so I can go to bed:

HumanDawn comes in and starts immediately solving which I think is a great look and I agree with most of their assessments (full reads + explanations are coming from me but it's taking longer than expected). Probably my top town read right now.

So from a mind meld basically?

Town
HumanDawn

Why? I have barely touched the game.

I would say mindmeld + slight town read on EME + your starting attitude to the game are all factors in my read on you.

Also, questioning your town reads is definitely a good look.

Speaking of vote, I'd like to put mine here for now:

Vote: Imaginative Kane

This is the person I feel is most likely to actually flip wolf based on what I'veread so far, I'll explain my case shortly.

Imaginative Kane is another player in the "just there" list in the back of my brain who I can't remember anything about, so no objection from me here.

I'm actually leaning to scumlean with Kane, but I feel like he's not an optimal wagon today?
Would also be nice if we managed to reduce it to 3 close wagons again by EoD, and I feel like TGN/Sapph are pretty great if anyone wanna join these wink wink