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Werewolf XXIII: A Lord of the Rings Adventure
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Laurentus
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  • Also everyone, based on game mechanics, I can lock-confirm Lau is good.  Not sure if that helps people generally, but good to know either way.

    @Minish, basically something happened between me and BSR on N1, and I've had him in my core ever since.


    Got it.


    If anyone else is actually Aragorn I'm gonna be pretty upset with you for not "countering" Hapi. So I'm gonna put Hapi in the town group for now.


    If you trust me Laur (and if I ever flip that will just make this more trustworthy), we never lynch from this group and then PoE from the rest.


    Town
    Me
    Laur
    Daws
    Turtle
    BSR
    Hapi




    Other
    Doc
    Eastern New England
    Flying Eagles
    Gerrick
    HumanSanity
    ogunbiyi6422
    Sapphiron
    The Greenlandic North
    Vroendal
    Wille-Harlia
    Wintermoot
    Wischland



    If anyone has invest roles, anyone in this group is a good target.

    I would easily add Sapph in there, but otherwise that squares with my thinking.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
    Laurentus
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    Minish
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  • Also everyone, based on game mechanics, I can lock-confirm Lau is good.  Not sure if that helps people generally, but good to know either way.

    @Minish, basically something happened between me and BSR on N1, and I've had him in my core ever since.


    Got it.


    If anyone else is actually Aragorn I'm gonna be pretty upset with you for not "countering" Hapi. So I'm gonna put Hapi in the town group for now.


    If you trust me Laur (and if I ever flip that will just make this more trustworthy), we never lynch from this group and then PoE from the rest.


    Town
    Me
    Laur
    Daws
    Turtle
    BSR
    Hapi




    Other
    Doc
    Eastern New England
    Flying Eagles
    Gerrick
    HumanSanity
    ogunbiyi6422
    Sapphiron
    The Greenlandic North
    Vroendal
    Wille-Harlia
    Wintermoot
    Wischland



    If anyone has invest roles, anyone in this group is a good target.

    I would easily add Sapph in there, but otherwise that squares with my thinking.


    Not up to date on any Sapph stuff. He seemed scummy to me on the d1 read through but that wasn't much to go on.

    But we can definitely even divide the other list into two separate lists of don't want to lynch now and then PoE.

    As is, the other list is 1/3 scum so not too bad of odds hitting mafia in that. But even if we could remove 4 more town leans from that list then we would have a 50/50 shot at scum.
    Minish
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    Minish
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  • If everyone could take this list and separate it into a reads list that would be great. Even if everyone could just name 4 people from this list they don't want to lynch/are leaning town or 4 they're leaning scum for that would help a ton.

    Doc
    Eastern New England
    Flying Eagles
    Gerrick
    HumanSanity
    ogunbiyi6422
    Sapphiron
    The Greenlandic North
    Vroendal
    Wille-Harlia
    Wintermoot
    Wischland
    Minish
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    Laurentus
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  • Actually, wait, @Minish, why turtle?

    I was distracted earlier, but noticed you added him into the list of non-PoE candidates.

    And yeah, if you read Sapph's D2, I would honestly be surprised if you don't come to the same conclusion as I do.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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    Minish
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  • Actually, wait, @Minish, why turtle?

    I was distracted earlier, but noticed you added him into the list of non-PoE candidates.

    And yeah, if you read Sapph's D2, I would honestly be surprised if you don't come to the same conclusion as I do.

    I have very good reason. He's on the same tier as Daws in regards to confirmation for me.
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    Vroendal
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  • Birdbrain...
  • I had made a response here Lau to Gerrick -

    Well, seeing as how I need to vote for either Vroendal or Michi to save myself... Hard choice, though, as both are among my scum-leans.

    Vote: Vroendal. I don't buy his reasoning on making the Dawsinian wagon a majority. Why was he more confident in making the kill for Dawsinian over the other two, or rather make a four-way tie similarly to what I had done? Also, he's playing quite similarly to the Portal Werewolf game where he was a wolf. In that game, he also voted for a random, non-wagon player in such a circumstance as this.
    I understand voting me to save yourself. However, I find it rather ironic that you would question my reason for voting Daws as opposed to forming another tie, as I had cited your reasons. I didn't want a tie bc that was still a chance of killing Lau/Michi. I would also like to remind you that in the Portal game I was purposefully setting myself up to be lynched, following my role. This is a new game and an entirely different situation.
    I had agreed with Gerrick's reasons for choosing Daws over the other three that were candidates to be tied, and I broke the tie to maximize the chances that we lynch scum, seeing as I didn't think you or Michi were scum and tying it again didn't seem to be a good idea considering there was still risk and I was less trusting of Daws than the others.

    Vroendal (79, 12,40%) - Seemed lazer-focused on me from the word go. I can and should be questioned, but I am honestly still feeling like there was an ulterior motive to it. This lazer-focus can be seen the moment he asks Sapph what Sapph's opinion is of me at this very moment. I don't think this was likely to be random at all. Equally valid people to ask would have been Pengu (who knows my meta better than just about anyone), Doc or even Wintermoot. Why go straight for the person I would characterise as my arch-nemesis in Werewolf? (BTW, Sapph, no offence meant <3). This lazer-focus is also in clear view when he later probes me about what I had said once in a previous game about Gerrick's lurking. His thought-progression is riddled with contradictions when it comes to Hapi, and he doesn't showcase his progression to finding me sus at all, beyond not liking how easily I take over the thread and "how much I talk". When not lazer-focusing on me, his posts lack substance almost completely. Caused the Daws lynch at the end of the day phase but in his defence, probably not *that* sus as far as reasons go, but definitely when it comes to timing. His interrogation of Moot feels breathtakingly weak looking back. He doesn't actually address much of it to Moot, and seems desperate to move on from the topic of TGN's supposed purity, citing Doc's defense as iron-clad (you can bet how this makes me feel about TGN's status right now). Immediately starts peddling the theory after the Daws mislynch that the wolves are among the lurkers, which supports Gerrick's observation. As soon as D2 starts and Daws comes back, he begins throwing shade at me again. His first reads list does not contain any reasons for his leanings (yeah, upon reflection, that's super dodge). He also did not react well to me propping up two of my scumspects as not only town leans, but Town Core, of all things. And by "did not react well", I mean there was literally no reaction. Instead he cases me for the previous day's Daws lynch. Bit of an odd choice to find me suspicious for that, when I just did something to wildly strange. I could go on in a similar vein from here, but at this point, I am starting to think I'm just lazer-focusing on him because he lazer-focused me, and I can't be objective.

    So with all that out of the way: Vote: Vroendal
    There's not much I can do to allay your paranoia about ulterior motives short of me dying, I'm beginning to accept that maybe I do need to die just to get you asking the questions where they need to be asked. I chose Sapph for mainly 2 reasons: I knew that he was your nemesis, I had read about somewhere, I honestly don't remember where now, and I felt that if Sapph often came into contention with you he would be the most likely to see anything unusual starting from D1. I also knew that you would develop your own opinions on him based on his answer and that could be helpful. I said I didn't really have a good reason at the time, but I was still casing you. Also, I did also just want to take to people I hadn't talked to before, nothing much to that. As to Pengu, Doc, or Moot being a better choice, I just decided on Sapph.
    As for lacking substance in my posts, I just lack the motivation to overanalyze every single little thing that I could see that might point to someone being this or that, I grow weary of posting a lot, it's definitely not my usual MO. As for lazar-focusing on you, it was only D1, there weren't any big revelations yet from lynches or kills, if I was going to case someone first one of the best options would be you based on my observations from the first Portal game. If I could eliminate a wolf that would be very likely to take over town from D1 that would be instrumental in town's victory.
    As for Moot, that one was an actual mistake on my part. I was feeling targeted and wanted to deflect on someone else because the stress was getting a little much for D1, I haven't played WW for months this has been rough. :/ I kinda just invented reasons half-heartedly and hoped Moot would slip up and say something that actually hinted to him being wolf.
    I wanted to move on from TGN because he was and still is the most likely player to be town who is not mechanically cleared. I think Doc laid out TGN's defense quite well in the beginning and I fully agree with it. I must also mention that you could be more trusting of Doc if you're not trusting of me on this because we both read the RMB quite often and TGN is one of the most profilic posters there. If it turns out I'm wrong, so be it but for now I'm not going to push him.
    I threw shade at you because I had just considered the possibility that it could be both you and Michi based on that you Lau apparently like to push another wolf as a wolf yourself, I wanted to raise the possibility and not get fooled for the rest of the game.
    I responded to your propping up of cores as well, a reminder that you had made this statement AFTER N1, and I had no idea what your role was. It seemed likely to me based on your certainty that you had copped at least one and for the other had seen something that made you certain in a post. I didn't know what this could be, but I decided not to press the issue to keep from revealing too much possible town information D2. You not switching to Daws seemed to be the more likely wolf maneuver to me, and thus the one that I should press.

    I am going to issue a suggestion. We keep returning to me, so obviously you're not going to just leave me alone to go focus on who you should focus on. So I'll lead you there. I suggest that I lead a vote against someone you  scum lean today. If they're town, either a town killing role kills me tonight or you lynch me the next day. If they're wolf, someone can investigate me tonight. If you don't trust the result, we do the same thing again.

    This would be a very bad choice to do as wolf, because either I get fellow wolves killed uselessly when I could just give up and die today, or I would eliminate one more option for who it could be, narrowing in on the wolves. If you don't agree to this and decide to lynch me, ok. That would be a misplay, but a more understandable one. Once my role is revealed I think you'll understand a lot more.
    Vroendal
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    Laurentus
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  • I had made a response here Lau to Gerrick -

    Well, seeing as how I need to vote for either Vroendal or Michi to save myself... Hard choice, though, as both are among my scum-leans.

    Vote: Vroendal. I don't buy his reasoning on making the Dawsinian wagon a majority. Why was he more confident in making the kill for Dawsinian over the other two, or rather make a four-way tie similarly to what I had done? Also, he's playing quite similarly to the Portal Werewolf game where he was a wolf. In that game, he also voted for a random, non-wagon player in such a circumstance as this.
    I understand voting me to save yourself. However, I find it rather ironic that you would question my reason for voting Daws as opposed to forming another tie, as I had cited your reasons. I didn't want a tie bc that was still a chance of killing Lau/Michi. I would also like to remind you that in the Portal game I was purposefully setting myself up to be lynched, following my role. This is a new game and an entirely different situation.
    I had agreed with Gerrick's reasons for choosing Daws over the other three that were candidates to be tied, and I broke the tie to maximize the chances that we lynch scum, seeing as I didn't think you or Michi were scum and tying it again didn't seem to be a good idea considering there was still risk and I was less trusting of Daws than the others.

    Vroendal (79, 12,40%) - Seemed lazer-focused on me from the word go. I can and should be questioned, but I am honestly still feeling like there was an ulterior motive to it. This lazer-focus can be seen the moment he asks Sapph what Sapph's opinion is of me at this very moment. I don't think this was likely to be random at all. Equally valid people to ask would have been Pengu (who knows my meta better than just about anyone), Doc or even Wintermoot. Why go straight for the person I would characterise as my arch-nemesis in Werewolf? (BTW, Sapph, no offence meant <3). This lazer-focus is also in clear view when he later probes me about what I had said once in a previous game about Gerrick's lurking. His thought-progression is riddled with contradictions when it comes to Hapi, and he doesn't showcase his progression to finding me sus at all, beyond not liking how easily I take over the thread and "how much I talk". When not lazer-focusing on me, his posts lack substance almost completely. Caused the Daws lynch at the end of the day phase but in his defence, probably not *that* sus as far as reasons go, but definitely when it comes to timing. His interrogation of Moot feels breathtakingly weak looking back. He doesn't actually address much of it to Moot, and seems desperate to move on from the topic of TGN's supposed purity, citing Doc's defense as iron-clad (you can bet how this makes me feel about TGN's status right now). Immediately starts peddling the theory after the Daws mislynch that the wolves are among the lurkers, which supports Gerrick's observation. As soon as D2 starts and Daws comes back, he begins throwing shade at me again. His first reads list does not contain any reasons for his leanings (yeah, upon reflection, that's super dodge). He also did not react well to me propping up two of my scumspects as not only town leans, but Town Core, of all things. And by "did not react well", I mean there was literally no reaction. Instead he cases me for the previous day's Daws lynch. Bit of an odd choice to find me suspicious for that, when I just did something to wildly strange. I could go on in a similar vein from here, but at this point, I am starting to think I'm just lazer-focusing on him because he lazer-focused me, and I can't be objective.

    So with all that out of the way: Vote: Vroendal
    There's not much I can do to allay your paranoia about ulterior motives short of me dying, I'm beginning to accept that maybe I do need to die just to get you asking the questions where they need to be asked. I chose Sapph for mainly 2 reasons: I knew that he was your nemesis, I had read about somewhere, I honestly don't remember where now, and I felt that if Sapph often came into contention with you he would be the most likely to see anything unusual starting from D1. I also knew that you would develop your own opinions on him based on his answer and that could be helpful. I said I didn't really have a good reason at the time, but I was still casing you. Also, I did also just want to take to people I hadn't talked to before, nothing much to that. As to Pengu, Doc, or Moot being a better choice, I just decided on Sapph.
    As for lacking substance in my posts, I just lack the motivation to overanalyze every single little thing that I could see that might point to someone being this or that, I grow weary of posting a lot, it's definitely not my usual MO. As for lazar-focusing on you, it was only D1, there weren't any big revelations yet from lynches or kills, if I was going to case someone first one of the best options would be you based on my observations from the first Portal game. If I could eliminate a wolf that would be very likely to take over town from D1 that would be instrumental in town's victory.
    As for Moot, that one was an actual mistake on my part. I was feeling targeted and wanted to deflect on someone else because the stress was getting a little much for D1, I haven't played WW for months this has been rough. :/ I kinda just invented reasons half-heartedly and hoped Moot would slip up and say something that actually hinted to him being wolf.
    I wanted to move on from TGN because he was and still is the most likely player to be town who is not mechanically cleared. I think Doc laid out TGN's defense quite well in the beginning and I fully agree with it. I must also mention that you could be more trusting of Doc if you're not trusting of me on this because we both read the RMB quite often and TGN is one of the most profilic posters there. If it turns out I'm wrong, so be it but for now I'm not going to push him.
    I threw shade at you because I had just considered the possibility that it could be both you and Michi based on that you Lau apparently like to push another wolf as a wolf yourself, I wanted to raise the possibility and not get fooled for the rest of the game.
    I responded to your propping up of cores as well, a reminder that you had made this statement AFTER N1, and I had no idea what your role was. It seemed likely to me based on your certainty that you had copped at least one and for the other had seen something that made you certain in a post. I didn't know what this could be, but I decided not to press the issue to keep from revealing too much possible town information D2. You not switching to Daws seemed to be the more likely wolf maneuver to me, and thus the one that I should press.

    I am going to issue a suggestion. We keep returning to me, so obviously you're not going to just leave me alone to go focus on who you should focus on. So I'll lead you there. I suggest that I lead a vote against someone you  scum lean today. If they're town, either a town killing role kills me tonight or you lynch me the next day. If they're wolf, someone can investigate me tonight. If you don't trust the result, we do the same thing again.

    This would be a very bad choice to do as wolf, because either I get fellow wolves killed uselessly when I could just give up and die today, or I would eliminate one more option for who it could be, narrowing in on the wolves. If you don't agree to this and decide to lynch me, ok. That would be a misplay, but a more understandable one. Once my role is revealed I think you'll understand a lot more.

    All this assumes the Seer doesn't get killed tonight. Wolves also just wanna stay alive for as long as they possibly can. So no, I will not be taking you up on this offer.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
    Laurentus
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    Laurentus
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  • Although I am legitimately sad if you're not having a good time.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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    Vroendal
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  • Birdbrain...
  • Well, ok. If anyone else would like to take me up on my offer that would be nice. I feel that I have contributed all I can at this point. No more long posts, adieu. This was not the way I would have liked to die as town. Next game I hope you understand my game style better from this experience so something like this doesn't happen again. It's partly my own fault but still... not great.
    Vroendal
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    Laurentus
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  • I also don't know how you become so worried about me being scum at the beginning of D2 if you simultaneously think I'm the Cop.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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  • I also don't know how you become so worried about me being scum at the beginning of D2 if you simultaneously think I'm the Cop.
    That was just a matter of two possibilities I was seeing at the same time conflicting, your answer would have provided more perspective on which one was more likely.
    Vroendal
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    Laurentus
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  • I also don't know how you become so worried about me being scum at the beginning of D2 if you simultaneously think I'm the Cop.
    That was just a matter of two possibilities I was seeing at the same time conflicting, your answer would have provided more perspective on which one was more likely.

    You didn't ask me about one of them, you only focused on what made me Wolf.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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  • You didn't ask me about one of them, you only focused on what made me Wolf.
    Yeah, because the wolf part was both more important to determine at the time, and because asking about your abilities also would have made your game as town more difficult and even would have incriminated myself for asking.
    Vroendal
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  • Actually, you know what, screw waiting for death, if I'm going down I'm going down in a blaze of possibly misguided glory!!!

    Vote - Wille-Harlia

    I'm sticking to my guns, everyone vote for this player and if I'm wrong that's one less confusion we have in this game.
    Vroendal
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    Laurentus
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  • Actually, you know what, screw waiting for death, if I'm going down I'm going down in a blaze of possibly misguided glory!!!

    Vote - Wille-Harlia

    I'm sticking to my guns, everyone vote for this player and if I'm wrong that's one less confusion we have in this game.

    This is hilarious. Refer to my reads list and respond, please.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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