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VOTE HERE: August Underhusen Election
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Doc
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  • Lack of interest and activity in the Underhusen may be a legitimate issue, and at one time I thought it was an issue that you had a real interest in resolving. I was fine with the idea of BID poking fun at the issue while being a catalyst to resolve it in good faith. But now you're trying to force regional crisis and dramas over it, and that is a bridge too far. Even worse, at this point I don't think you're doing it out of concern or interest in the Underhusen or the region, but for personal amusement. That is why I've taken the unprecedented step of making my vote public.
    If I genuinely believed that it would be a crisis that would wrack the region - rather than a 'constitutional crisis' that would result in little more than a temporary inconvenience while we worked to resolve it - I wouldn't have done this.
    Maybe you see it as drama, because right or wrong the disestablishment of the Underhusen is a deeply contentious issue (particularly w.r.t Chanku), but as far as I can see, this manufactured crisis has catalyzed significantly greater activity and engagement than the entire rest of the previous term. It's driven a great deal of activity in the Discord (viz. the CitPlat discussions most of Saturday night and reaching into Sunday morning), it's engaged people with the regional laws in ways we hadn't seen in a while - a necessary precursor step to an open assembly in my opinion - and if nothing else, this election certainly provides a handy guide to who is pro-UH (the people voting for the Slate of 4 Candidates) and who's anti-UH (everyone voting for Me and Three Abstain).
    The fact that I also - among others, clearly, considering that the people voting for me also seem to be having a good time - derive amusement from it shouldn't detract from the positive effects I think it's pretty clearly having.
    I'm sorry it inconvenienced you, but frankly, my attempts to work wholly within the confines of the system and in good faith have done diddly as far as reform or replacement, and I'm not exactly one to repeat something that doesn't work in the hopes that that will magically change.
    5 people like this post: Gerrick, Barnes, taulover, BraveSirRobin, Sapphiron
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    Doc
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    Wintermoot
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  • @Barnes: But everybody is already aware of the issues with the Underhusen. Besides Chanku, I don't think anyone has said that things are great as they are. The problem isn't that people aren't aware that the UH is inactive. The problem is that there’s no consensus on what to do about it, much less enough support for anything to pass a constitutional amendment. Laurentus’s polls a year ago bore that out.

    @Doc: Drama is often a catalyst for short-term activity, often at the cost of long-term harm. I know for a fact that I’m not the only person that was unhappy with how things happened. I certainly wouldn’t call the silliness and the exchanges that went on in #citizens-platform the other night positive in any way. It’s one thing to call attention to an issue or even to poke fun at it, but again, trying to manufacture crises and dramas is a bridge too far. I’m not pro-UH or against making changes to the Storting, I’m against tactics that make a mockery of the whole issue.

    Again, the problem is that there’s yet to have been a proposal that can successfully pass to amend the Fundamental Laws, and that fact is immaterial to whether you work within the confines of the system or not. The solution is for there to be a proposal that can pass through.
    4 people like this post: Michi, Ogun of Valeria, taulover, BraveSirRobin
    « Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 09:11:40 PM by Wintermoot »


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    They said "You'd better look alive"
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    BraveSirRobin
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    Disclaimer
    Just here to vote for completeness.  Beyond that I don't really want to take sides, etc.
     Feel free to convince me one way or the other though!
    Sir Robin of Camelot

    "Whilst the men of Caenia were scattered far and wide, pillaging and destroying, Romulus came upon them with an army, and after a brief encounter taught them that anger is futile without strength."  -Titus Livius, Ab Urbe Condita

    (Ravenclaw is the best!)

    Résumé/A History of Robin on NationStates
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 4 June 2015 - present
    Member of the Hvitt Riddaral: 21 August 2015 - present
    Strifa of the 12th Underhusen: 8 October 2015 - 13 December 2015
    Speaker Pro Tem of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    Speaker Pro Tem of the 14th Underhusen: 8 February 2016 - 8 April 2016
    Speaker of the 16th Underhusen: 10 June 2016 - 11 August 2016
    Ambassador to Europeia: 5 December 2016 - present
    RP Guild Councillor: 23 February 2017 - present
    Ambassador to The North Pacific: 11 March 2017 - present
    Speaker of the 21st Underhusen: 10 April 2017 - 10 June 2017
    Delegate of Wintreath: 10 June 2017 - 15 March 2020
    Strifa of the 23rd Underhusen: 10 August 2017 - 10 November 2017
    Thane of Ambassadors: 10 October 2018 - 10 December 2018
    Commendation of Wintreath: Sept 24 2020

    New Hyperion:
    Citizen: 27 November 2015 - present
    Patrician: 12 January 2016 - present
    Lord of Development: 5 February 2016 - present


    (I stole this format from tau, but who am I not to copy a great system? :-) )

    Ne Crustumini quidem atque Antemnates pro ardore iraque Caeninensium satis se impigre movent; ita per se ipsum nomen Caeninum in agrum Romanum impetum facit. Sed effuse vastantibus fit obvius cum exercitu Romulus levique certamine docet vanam sine viribus iram esse.
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    Michi
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    Disclaimer
    Just here to vote for completeness.  Beyond that I don't really want to take sides, etc.
     Feel free to convince me one way or the other though!

    By voting just to abstain on all slots though rather than just not voting at all and stating that disclaimer on its own, isn't that technically taking a side since Doc's whole thing is trying to get people to completely abstain (outside of voting for himself)?
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    Chanku
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    See you later space cowboy.
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    Current Positions in Wintreath
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    Positions I've held
    Riksrad(1st Jarl of Information, 3rd Jarl of Foreign Affairs, 2nd Jarl of Defense)
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    Speaker of the Underhusen (3rd)
    Speaker Pro Tempore of the Underhusen (1st)
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    BraveSirRobin
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  • By voting just to abstain on all slots though rather than just not voting at all and stating that disclaimer on its own, isn't that technically taking a side since Doc's whole thing is trying to get people to completely abstain (outside of voting for himself)?
    Well considering it neither helps nor hinders either side of the dispute, not really. If I had voted for Doc sure, but that wasn't what I did. What I did was a slightly more responsible form of not entering into the dispute at all.
    Sir Robin of Camelot

    "Whilst the men of Caenia were scattered far and wide, pillaging and destroying, Romulus came upon them with an army, and after a brief encounter taught them that anger is futile without strength."  -Titus Livius, Ab Urbe Condita

    (Ravenclaw is the best!)

    Résumé/A History of Robin on NationStates
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 4 June 2015 - present
    Member of the Hvitt Riddaral: 21 August 2015 - present
    Strifa of the 12th Underhusen: 8 October 2015 - 13 December 2015
    Speaker Pro Tem of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    Speaker Pro Tem of the 14th Underhusen: 8 February 2016 - 8 April 2016
    Speaker of the 16th Underhusen: 10 June 2016 - 11 August 2016
    Ambassador to Europeia: 5 December 2016 - present
    RP Guild Councillor: 23 February 2017 - present
    Ambassador to The North Pacific: 11 March 2017 - present
    Speaker of the 21st Underhusen: 10 April 2017 - 10 June 2017
    Delegate of Wintreath: 10 June 2017 - 15 March 2020
    Strifa of the 23rd Underhusen: 10 August 2017 - 10 November 2017
    Thane of Ambassadors: 10 October 2018 - 10 December 2018
    Commendation of Wintreath: Sept 24 2020

    New Hyperion:
    Citizen: 27 November 2015 - present
    Patrician: 12 January 2016 - present
    Lord of Development: 5 February 2016 - present


    (I stole this format from tau, but who am I not to copy a great system? :-) )

    Ne Crustumini quidem atque Antemnates pro ardore iraque Caeninensium satis se impigre movent; ita per se ipsum nomen Caeninum in agrum Romanum impetum facit. Sed effuse vastantibus fit obvius cum exercitu Romulus levique certamine docet vanam sine viribus iram esse.
    BraveSirRobin
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    Wintermoot
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  • This election will conclude roughly 24 hours from now. If you haven't voted yet, now is the time to do it!
    2 people like this post: taulover, Ogun of Valeria


    I went all the way to Cassadega to commune with the dead
    They said "You'd better look alive"
    Wintermoot
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