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The fact that you trust me actually makes me not trust you. I suddenly just remembered that you were tied with me during the day phase for those points, and you racked them up damn fast, at that.

Could it be because you were spreading misinformation?

The fact that you trust me actually makes me not trust you. I suddenly just remembered that you were tied with me during the day phase for those points, and you racked them up damn fast, at that.

Could it be because you were spreading misinformation?

Fair enough.
I don't think I actually claimed anything, or said any information at all. I was mostly being chaotic I suppose.

Wow, I missed a lot. Good job, Lau. At this point I'm pretty confident that Lau is town and Barnes is town. I don't know about Vro, being chaotic is, well, not really a town move, is it? I don't know about Kane, I'm just not getting scum vibes, then again, I've not been following this as it happened and Lau has been on the money.

By the way, guys, op please press the button. This might be my last night phase to do something with my abilities.

By the way, guys, op please press the button. This might be my last night phase to do something with my abilities.

*Bing!* All voting and button pushing is prohibited at night. Thank you. *Bing!*

Let me go that extra step further. Lynch Red. It is literally the only logical choice. Don't buy into this bullshit that the host is lying. Tau laid it out very clearly.

And let's use Ockham's Razor. Which is more likely? That the host is lying? Or that a player is lying?

If Red flips Town then that confirms everyone's fear that the host is lying. If he flips scum, well shit, I would appreciate everyone getting serious about this game.

As it turns out, Mones was wolf, but I also don't like the dichotomy you drew here.

If you took both what Ruguo and Mones said at face value, there's nothing that contradicts each other. Mones' false role claim was clearly designed to work within the confines of what our host had revealed: namely, that Mones killed Hydra. Nothing in their two claims actually contradicted each other.

This is what made accusations of Ruguo lying particularly absurd to me, because that claim was probably not true regardless of whether Red Mones was villager or wolf aligned.

What I did find a more convincing argument was this one:

Yeah, okay.  Laurentus has made some pretty good arguments on this. And he usually isn't this serious unless he's absolutely confident on someone, so I'll bite.  Admittedly I've been on the fence with him because I also do believe that it could have been a game core implication...however RM did already admit to killin Hydra, so we already know that it's a truthful implication.

Likewise, it's a bit strange of a thing to have a role that "accidentally" can kill someone they scan, as that'd just be an unusual blow to the town since normally someone may not want to use that power in fear of using that power.  But using it an somehow killing someon that first night...and that person happened to be a Loudmouth that implicated you?

Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it a bit further, it just makes less sense the more I write it.  I mean sure, I legit did have the power to kill last game as a Jailer, but that was by choice if the jailed person didnt answer in a way that took from my suspicion, so it had more of a benefit from town.  Having an accidental chance to kill someone doesn't benefit town in any way, and would be more of a neutral type of role than a townie at the very least.

Vote: Lynch Red Mones

Vigilante roles do exist, and combining it with seer with a chance element would certainly be interesting, but it is weird and would question why a townie would do that N1.

I didn't argue that Red claimed the host was lying, though. That was a rebuttal to paranoia inspired by Kane, and perpetuated by various other players.

With regards to Mones, my argument began and ended with the absurdity of his role claim in a game where town is already drawing the short end of the stick, and how odd it is that such a kill would have been the only one when we'd let the doctor die D1, anyway.

Go read the posts carefully, mate.

Actually, it's not like you to miss shit like this, @taulover. What gives?

I didn't argue that Red claimed the host was lying, though. That was a rebuttal to paranoia inspired by Kane, and perpetuated by various other players.

With regards to Mones, my argument began and ended with the absurdity of his role claim in a game where town is already drawing the short end of the stick, and how odd it is that such a kill would have been the only one when we'd let the doctor die D1, anyway.

Go read the posts carefully, mate.

I read the posts carefully, and would ask that you do the same for mine. I didn't claim that you argued that Red claimed the host was lying.

What you did do multiple times, however, was draw an either/or situation and leave out the possibility that both of them were telling the truth. For instance:

If Red flips Town then that confirms everyone's fear that the host is lying.

Is just wrong to me, because it isn't true. If Mones were villager-aligned, that does not confirm that the host is lying. That would be absurd.

I agree that the paranoia that Barnes, Kane et al. had in reaction to Ruguo hosting a slightly unconventional game merited a response. What I didn't agree with was legitimizing this theory by hinging it on whether Red Mones was lying or not, because even if Mones had done a true role claim, that says nothing about the game host other than that Ruguo had picked a weirdly experimental role and Mones had used it unwisely.

Also, this is very much an aside, but there are probably multiple defender-type roles in this game. As Ruguo noted on Discord, we killed the healer, not the doctor, and we know from the previous game that this game also has a doctor (and also other defender roles like the one ExLight had).

I believed Red Mones's role claim simply because it seemed believable to me because of how unusual it would be to have a seer vigilante role so I am genuinely shocked that they were a turret.

I do not see many ways I can really defend myself from your very justified suspicions but I would ask you to not to go for me because then a Wintrean tradition would continue.  (I am not elaborating further on that because that would be a dead giveaway to what I am, although this probably gave it away already)

Obviously, I really need to rethink my role suspicions.  I will assure you that I am not a turret although I do not really have a way to prove it yet.

Kane, this is the night phase. Lau merely raised his suspicions of you, you shouldn’t have engaged in role claim without any majority votes on you

I'm finally *kinda* caught up, though it's kind of late. v_v I have to admit though, I'm not sure how much help I would have been that round...reading through the day phase, I felt like I was in one of those shows where the character eventually winds up questioning his own sense of reality and whether anything he's seeing is as it seems to be.

The fact that you trust me actually makes me not trust you. I suddenly just remembered that you were tied with me during the day phase for those points, and you racked them up damn fast, at that.

Could it be because you were spreading misinformation?

If you were tied with them, perhaps the same question could be asked of you. Were you spreading misinformation?

You're acting awfully frantic this night phase...you led the charge against Red Mones, and now you have some people trusting that you are town for that, but now you're throwing shade everywhere in some cases for the least little things: Kane, myself, Pengu, Vro, and taulover, and in each case providing either minimal or no reasoning for doing so. It could come off as trying to capitalize on your newfound trust, and that's almost half of the remaining players in the game. Then I remember during the day phase you were practically edging people to vote to lynch you if they found you the least bit suspicious. Why?

I'm not making an accusation at this point, but it seems awfully out of character.

Simple, every time I'm town, people (like you, especially) really like to capitalise on my naturally scummy playstyle, so ever since that game where Doc, Sapph and Gerrick were Wolves, I embraced it and realised that scum was very unlikely to actually wanna push for my lynch, as they'd fear the target painted on their backs when I flipped.

And what's interesting to me is that I just lynched scum, and yet you're claiming I must have gotten my points through misinformation. When that's demonstrably false.

As for how frantic I am, that's because I'm dead certain I won't be surviving, and I intend to push everyone's buttons to give town as much info as possible.

I didn't argue that Red claimed the host was lying, though. That was a rebuttal to paranoia inspired by Kane, and perpetuated by various other players.

With regards to Mones, my argument began and ended with the absurdity of his role claim in a game where town is already drawing the short end of the stick, and how odd it is that such a kill would have been the only one when we'd let the doctor die D1, anyway.

Go read the posts carefully, mate.

I read the posts carefully, and would ask that you do the same for mine. I didn't claim that you argued that Red claimed the host was lying.

What you did do multiple times, however, was draw an either/or situation and leave out the possibility that both of them were telling the truth. For instance:

If Red flips Town then that confirms everyone's fear that the host is lying.

Is just wrong to me, because it isn't true. If Mones were villager-aligned, that does not confirm that the host is lying. That would be absurd.

I agree that the paranoia that Barnes, Kane et al. had in reaction to Ruguo hosting a slightly unconventional game merited a response. What I didn't agree with was legitimizing this theory by hinging it on whether Red Mones was lying or not, because even if Mones had done a true role claim, that says nothing about the game host other than that Ruguo had picked a weirdly experimental role and Mones had used it unwisely.

Also, this is very much an aside, but there are probably multiple defender-type roles in this game. As Ruguo noted on Discord, we killed the healer, not the doctor, and we know from the previous game that this game also has a doctor (and also other defender roles like the one ExLight had).

True, I did leave out that possibility, because it was incredibly unlikely, and I really wanted to lynch Red. Giving an unlikely counter-point to my suspicions of him was likely to take the wind out of my sails in that pursuit. Considering those were the arguments that eventually flipped people's votes onto Red, I'm quite happy with the result.