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Full Article: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02585-6

From what I gather from reading the article, after studying the genomes of 500,000 people, scientists have concluded that there is no gay gene and that genetics in general only account for up to 25% of human sexuality, with the other 75% left to environmental and cultural factors.

Personally, I find this result to be very exciting, in part because it corresponds to my own personal views on sexual orientation...that most people may be genetically predisposed to some place on the scale between straight and gay, but it's their culture and experiences that determine how much an effect those predispositions have. For example, I know many people who identified as a particular orientation, but then discovered that wasn't the case after meeting the right person that opened their eyes. Even in surveys, as the LGBT community becomes more mainstream and accepted, the percentage of people who identify as gay and lesbian has grown from roughly 5-8% 15 years ago to around 15% today. Double to triple the amount in 15 years, and that doesn't count the growing number of people who identify as straight but have had same-sex experiences.

Some people might take that to mean that a gay person may be made straight through things like conversion therapy, but I'm not suggesting anything so shallow...I think it's possible to not realize that you're capable of lusting for or loving someone of the same gender until the right circumstances happen, but once the genie is out of the bottle it's not something you can just shut back up without doing harm to your psyche. But I think it's exciting because it suggests that in the future there may be as many same-sex relationships as opposite-sex relationships...or maybe a future where gender doesn't even matter in our relationships. Where love can be shared between all.

Just my take on it...I'm sure it'll be controversial. It always has been.

Some people might take that to mean that a gay person may be made straight through things like conversion therapy

Sick f**ks that get off on abusing people.

I honestly wish that this study hadn't been published.

Like you said, people are going to use this as ammo in the fight against lgbtq+ equality. And I don't know that
I agree that its so much based in nurture. I, for one, have been without any kind of attraction to women.

I honestly wish that this study hadn't been published.

Like you said, people are going to use this as ammo in the fight against lgbtq+ equality. And I don't know that
I agree that its so much based in nurture. I, for one, have been without any kind of attraction to women.

Undoubtedly they will, but it'll be people who were against LGBTQ+ equality anyways. I think the rest of the world knows that you can't just flip a switch or have one thing happen that changes your sexuality, especially after you've already been made aware that you have attractions to the same gender...it's the sum of your experiences that weigh in there. I might have been worried if this came out 15 years ago, but at this point I don't think it will have much impact on the fight for equality...the genie is out of the bottle and it's too late to put it back in.

Personally, I've never took stock in the gay gene, and I believe that no one is inherently attracted to one or the other at the beginning, but environmental factors, society, and cultural/traditions can push us in a specific direction.

Sure, I may so far be only attracted to guys since I've never found a woman I was ever attracted to but I'm not going to discount the possibility that she exists.  The worst thing someone can do is box themselves into a label, and then run into someone that you find yourself head over heels over that happens to be outside of that box you put yourself in.

I can only speak to my own experiences. I've never been attracted to women. Since i was very young ive had a fascination woth the male form.

And I disagree on the dangers of a study like this. Perhaps it's only going to be used by those that are agains lgbtq equality, but thats who is in power. And a study that shows that it can change or be shaped is all the evidence some would need to say that it SHOULD be changed. If nothing else, this was terrible timing.

And I'll admit it bothers me because it sounds an awful lot like the people who say, you just havent met the right woman yet. I mean, i aint gonna tell y'all how to identify. Maybe you fall somewhere else on the scale. But please dont tell me that i need to be open to that or that everyone's a little bi. It's insulting. And invalidating my identity.

Personally, I can't say I believe in the view that everyone is a little bi, that you could potentially find a member of the opposite (or same depending on orientation) that you are attracted to. I know a few people over here who are gay, totally not attracted to women and who fought against it, struggled against it, tried to make themselves attracted to women, tried to go to those god-awful conversions camps, tried everything who, in the end, were still attracted to only men. And here they have every incentive to not be gay. I really don't think it's a choice because I have seen people struggle not to make that 'choice' and fail. I don't think some people can be attracted to members of the opposite sex, I've seen people try mightily and fail. I think it's simply a part of who you are, a part you do not choose but a part that you, simply.....are. Much like you do not choose your race and you do not choose things like how tall you are your sexual orientation is not a choice.

That being said, I do think that more people can be attracted to both sexes then people think. I do think there are men who think they are straight but can be attracted to men and vice versa. But that's ultimately something people will have to discover themselves. And I really wish more societies were more open about sex and sexual matters.

As for the politics, the jackasses who would use such a study against the LGBT community are going to stand against them no matter what. I do agree that the timing is poor but at the same time I really can't help but be pleased to some extent that this study exists.

Personally, I can't say I believe in the view that everyone is a little bi, that you could potentially find a member of the opposite (or same depending on orientation) that you are attracted to. I know a few people over here who are gay, totally not attracted to women and who fought against it, struggled against it, tried to make themselves attracted to women, tried to go to those god-awful conversions camps, tried everything who, in the end, were still attracted to only men. And here they have every incentive to not be gay. I really don't think it's a choice because I have seen people struggle not to make that 'choice' and fail. I don't think some people can be attracted to members of the opposite sex, I've seen people try mightily and fail. I think it's simply a part of who you are, a part you do not choose but a part that you, simply.....are. Much like you do not choose your race and you do not choose things like how tall you are your sexual orientation is not a choice.

I've never been a fan of hearing that everyone is a little "bi," honestly.  Mainly because the only two versions of "bi" out there that I know of (which in a way is amusing that there's two) don't really mesh with what I'm saying.  One means that someone is attracted to both sexes, the other means that someone is attracted to one...but is curious about trying the other.

I'm not saying that everyone is automatically attracted to both sexes at the beginning.  What I am saying is that I believe it's not set in the beginning, and that everyone has the possibility to go in either or direction or both depending on factors in their life, environment, upbringing, society, and the like.

If anything, I look at it more like a percentage than anything.  For instance, I don't believe anyone is absolutely 100% either direction.  Especially with the amount of supposed 100% heterosexual people that keep pouring out of the closet or dig themselves so deep in there that they're practically in China, I just don't buy that anyone can be 100% heterosexual or homosexual.

Granted, there are definitely people that definitely fall into being attracted to one as opposed to the other.  As I said, I'm definitely far more attracted to men as opposed to women, and have yet to meet a woman that really checks those boxes for me.  But again, I'm not going to absolutely toss out the possibility that such a woman doesn't exist.  Maybe I just haven't met her yet, maybe I never will.  The point is that I'm not going to discount the possibility just because I've yet to run into her.

I'll also add that there's a difference between finding what you're attracted to, and being forced into it.  That's why the closet is such an issue in the first place, because people feel like they have to force others to be attracted in a specific way (because religion is such a fun moral compass to dictate people's lives, you know?).  When you're forced to change as if it's a choice you can make or a light switch you can flip, it's obviously not going to come without problems, and it's also obviously going to end up being like a band-aid as opposed to a permanent "fix."
 
If anything, t's going to create issues in your own psyche because you have to deal with what you feel is correct versus what you're being told is correct.  Some people can deflect such pressure and get out of it, others end up succumbing to the pressure and negativity and fall into the "closet" because of what they're told.  Eventually those in the closet struggle with their own feelings because of that pressure pushed at them, and they either end up coming out of the closet or cheating on the side with someone of the same sex and continuing the charade.

But I've really yet to ever meet someone who was forcefully converted and actually was "successfully" turned.  Because again, there's a difference between your own feelings and attraction changing, and it being forced on you.

I'll admit that I did say that society itself is a factor in what shapes our own attraction, and I still stand by it.  But I mean that more in the sense of what we're surrounded by and what we see on the daily basis, IE the media, our friends, family, what we see at our jobs and on the the streets, that sort of thing. 

Just like I believe society in general can dictate how open we are with even talking about our sexuality (aka when we're surrounded throughout our lives by people who are open and positive, we find discussing our own sexuality much easier) and even our own personality, I also believe that it's a large part of the environmental factors that helps shape it.

But again, much like personality and other factors of ourselves, I also believe that our sexuality is more of a fluid thing rather than a solid structure, and is something that can change down the road rather than remain completely constant for our entire lives.  Again, maybe it might be far down the road...or maybe it might not change at all, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have the capacity to.

But that is why I do agree with the idea of Pansexuality, despite it being another label/box.  Because it throws out the idea of sexuality entirely and just says that you love who you love.  Doesn't matter if that ends up being mostly men, mostly women, or evenly mixed.  It's more about the person themselves rather than what they are in terms of sexuality or gender identity.

And for people like myself and thise North spoke of who've never felt attraction to the opposite sex? Who spent years fighting to try to change it? If environmental aspects come onto play wouldnt some of us have succeeded?

Like I said, glad you can feel that way. But please dont make assumptions about others based on your experiences.

I was surrounded by heterosexuality. Hell I didnt even know about queer sexuality until i was in my late teens. If society and upbringing really did play as large of a role I wouldnt be gay. It doesn't make sense.

Change isn't possible. Maybe some dont realize that they fall in the middle of the spectrum but there are those of us on either end.

And for people like myself and thise North spoke of who've never felt attraction to the opposite sex? Who spent years fighting to try to change it? If environmental aspects come onto play wouldnt some of us have succeeded?

Like I said, glad you can feel that way. But please dont make assumptions about others based on your experiences.

Granted, there are definitely people that definitely fall into being attracted to one as opposed to the other.  As I said, I'm definitely far more attracted to men as opposed to women, and have yet to meet a woman that really checks those boxes for me.

As I said, I'm in the same boat where I've never felt attraction to the opposite sex as of yet. 

What I'm saying is that regardless of that, you don't know the future.  Things happen, changes can happen, and yes, much how you can gradually fall out of love with someone because of personality or other factors about them that change, your own feelings and even attraction over time can change.  And yes, it is possible for change to happen even if you try to fight against it.  It can be a slow and gradual change, or even just a quick trigger in the moment,  but unless you know the future with absolute certainty, you can't really argue that it's not at all possible that it can't happen.

I'm not assuming anything outside of saying that it's entirely possible for anyone to experience a change in feelings and attraction down the road.  And as I said: for all we know, maybe it won't occur for you or North or me or some others down the road because we may not meet that one person that's capable of making us questioning those aspects.  What I am saying is that it is entirely possible that we could, since again, we have no way of predicting the future.  We can plan it and say it'll happen a certain way, but the way we plan doesn't always equal how the future actually turns out.

I was surrounded by heterosexuality. Hell I didnt even know about queer sexuality until i was in my late teens. If society and upbringing really did play as large of a role I wouldnt be gay. It doesn't make sense.

And I didn't know about it until high school.  I was surrounded by parents who have been married my entire life, media depicting heterosexual couples, and people in a small town talking about it normally and never mentioning anything related to homosexuality.

All it took was one male friend wanting to experiment one day when I was 12 to create that attraction, and from that point on I found that I mainly only saw guys in any sort of sexual or even romantic way.

Hell, I even dated women in middle and high school when I was still figuring out my feelings, and...let's put it this way, I didn't have my first kiss until my first boyfriend in Uni because I never felt comfortable with the idea of it with any of my girlfriends that I had.

So believe me, we're really not on different levels on that account.  And again, it's not just society and upbringing, but also environmental, what we experience on the daily...many times without even realizing the impact it could have on us.

Change isn't possible. Maybe some dont realize that they fall in the middle of the spectrum but there are those of us on either end.

Change is both always possible and inevitable in any circumstance/situation.  A person may refuse to accept change in whatever form it takes, but it'll still take root and take its course when it wants to regardless.

I also wanted to add, since I forgot to answer this part:

If environmental aspects come onto play wouldnt some of us have succeeded?

Yes, and no.  Because a part of the battle is that it's not just one side, but both.  Why do you think even getting basic civil rights for LGBT is such a hassle?  Because it's not just the LGBT side fighting, but also the anti LGBT side.

And there's been some success, some failure.  But in the end, those fighting against eventually are going to fail because again, change is inevitable.  Gay marriage is already pretty much legal in the US, it's becoming more okay in various areas to be transgender, and the US is overall becoming gradually more accepting of LGBT individuals.  Unless you're in a country that is purely tyrannical and absolutely against LGBT rights (which even then, even if it's in the far future, that tyrannical rule will eventually come to an end), then nothing is absolute, and if it's something the people want, then it'll eventually come to pass.

Are things perfect? Heck no.  Despite Gay marriage being legal, there are still those fighting against it.  Despite it becoming more okay to be transgender, they're not allowed in the military AND it's still very risky and possibly dangerous to traverse the streets.  Despite the US gradually changing and being more accepting of LGBT individuals, it's still dangerous in other parts of the world and even in the US in certain states to be either gay or transgender.

But it's getting better because rather than fighting the change that certain people are making happen, more people are accepting that it's happening and more are even helping it happen.  Do we still have a ways to go? Absolutely, it may go on for years or even decades, or even may be long after our own lifetime before it's perfect.  Hell, we still have racial and even gender issues despite those being exceptionally long battles that have spanned for many decades.  But look where we've come in those areas since before then, and eventually down the road LGBT and even just transgender rights will be in a similar area to where...sure, there may still be issues, but they'll be much fewer and far between.

Going back to attraction, you can fight against who you're attracted to because someone is forcing it, or you can succumb to the pressure of society and try to be "better" for it.  But in the end people usually end up coming out of the closet regardless, because actual attraction will always beat forced attraction.  Even those who were pushed deep into the closet will normally even sneak out of it in cycles eventually.

But again, that's talking about when you're forced into it.  I'm mainly talking about your own actual attraction.  You and I and others may feel pretty set with who we're attracted to, and that's totally fine.  All I'm saying is that it will always be entirely possible that someone outside of our established sexuality may come along that could make us question that set attraction criteria we've established for ourselves.  Or they may not...that's the beauty of the future - we never know what's going to happen.

But yes, change is always possible.  Situations can change, places can change, and even people can change in any aspect.  Because again, everything is much more of a fluid concept than a solid unchanging construct.  Just as our own criteria or "type" can change over time, so too can our own complete attraction to even someone's specific sexuality.  Sometimes it just takes the right environmental trigger or the right person to walk into our lives.

And again, sometimes that person or trigger may never come.  But like I said, that's the beauty of the future...anything is possible and anything can happen whether we can predict it or not.

I will politely agree to disagree. I know myself. I know how and what I feel.

I do not appreciate being told that you somehow know more about me than I do however.

Change is not inevitable. Self dicovery maybe. But some of us are who we are. I have seen more female bodies than i care to. Some I find beautiful like I find art beautiful.

Not everything is possible. I will not wake up tomorrow with blue skin. Or an extra thumb. And I will not ever feel sexual or romantic attraction to women. Accept that or don't. I honestly don't care. But do not tell me who I am or who I may be. That is my decision. And I ask you to respect that.

I will politely agree to disagree. I know myself. I know how and what I feel.

I do not appreciate being told that you somehow know more about me than I do however.

Change is not inevitable. Self dicovery maybe. But some of us are who we are. I have seen more female bodies than i care to. Some I find beautiful like I find art beautiful.

Not everything is possible. I will not wake up tomorrow with blue skin. Or an extra thumb. And I will not ever feel sexual or romantic attraction to women. Accept that or don't. I honestly don't care. But do not tell me who I am or who I may be. That is my decision. And I ask you to respect that.

Apologies if that's how it came off, but I'm not saying that I know you more than you know yourself.  In the end, only you know yourself the best.  All I'm saying is that everyone can change, and eventually down the road people do in some form or another.  What type of changes those are, that's entirely different for everyone.  Everyone has different life experiences, different things that factor into shaping who they are as a person.  But at no point does that ever stop.  We're always changing, even if we sometimes refuse to see it, even the person we were yesterday is slightly different than the person we are today.

But anything, even attraction can change down the road.  You can argue that it's not possible, but that won't change the fact that it is, even if it's not something specifically that happens to you.  All I'm saying is that it is entirely possible to happen to anyone.  Whether it actually does for certain people is the question, and not everyone will go through the same types of changes, but nobody is closed off from it.  Your attraction may never change, and that's totally okay.  Again, you know you the best, and you know your own feelings and desires.  All I'm saying is that it does have the capacity to change, even if it does end up staying consistent through your life.

And sorry, but...grasping at straws much with that last paragraph? No, you're not going to magically alter into blue skin and have an extra thumb, just like you're not going to magically wake up and be a woman.  And yet you're able to dress up with makeup and a wig and look like such, just as you'd be able to paint yourself with blue skin, or get a procedure done to where you permanently can look like and actually be what you feel every day... or have those extra digits.

Not all change, especially actual physical change, is random happenstance. It can be purely you-driven as well.

So yes, anything is possible.  Does possible mean that it's actually going to happen specifically to you?  No, not at all, it just means it's possible.

I think we can all agree this discussion was had on the theoretical plane so no one was trying to make assertions about anyone else here. We are, all of us, what we are, gay, straight or anything in between and I think it's also safe to say that we all respect both each other and our sexuality.

I think what's being missed is that there's a difference between having a predisposition to something and making a conscious choice to be something. I believe that most people are predisposed to a certain point on the scale that's between 0 and 100, and to some extent that influences how easily their sexuality is expressed. If someone is heavily predisposed to liking the same gender, they're going to easily discover that. In fact, it'll be unavoidable, and no amount of conscious will is going to change that. That's why conversion therapy and the like doesn't and can't work, no matter how much someone may want it to.

On the other hand, if someone is closer to halfway between the scale, which I think most people are, their nurture will have a greater impact, and in the absence of an experience that made them realize they could like the same gender, they'll drift toward society norms, which is to be straight. I think that's why you have a higher percentage of people who identify as something other than straight now...compared to 20 years ago, it's not considered as abnormal, more people have come out, and it's more likely someone will run into an experience that makes them realize that they may be into it. But again, no amount of conscious will is going to change that because it's not a conscious process that you can control.

I think that human sexuality is complicated, more fluidic than most people realize, unique to each person, and out of our conscious control. Having something largely controlled by nurture doesn't mean it's something we can just decide to change...our nurture is as ingrained in who we are as our nature. And because human sexuality is unique to each person, I'm not talking about any individual. It's simply not my place to. I believe most people are between 0 and 100, but that doesn't mean that everybody is. I currently feel I'm 80/20 toward guys, but I have no clue what my own predisposition is, much less anybody else's. And since it apparently isn't controlled entirely by genetics, it may always a mystery unique to each person, as I think it should be.