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So normally at the end of each game I like to ask players for their input.  What worked for you? What stood out for you the most?  What didn't work? What could have been improved on?

If you're a newer player, was this easy for you to get into? If you struggled, what was your biggest concern?

I realize I haven't done this in the past couple of games, but I'd like to bring it back.  Werewolf is something that everyone should be able to jump into, whether it be a more unique and complex approach, or the vanilla basics.  If a player, new or experienced, isn't able to do so, then we need to figure out why they weren't able to do so, so that we can mark that in the book of "things not to replicate in the future."

In this game, the re-shuffle was most likely one of the biggest reasons for confusion.  8 of our players were slotted for one type of role (only 4 of them knowing it since they were the only ones PMed), and then suddenly 7 of them were something else, causing confusion for 4 of them including 2 of our newer players.

This is normally the type of thing that I try to avoid, even if the intention behind it was good (Doc being a werewolf in practically most of the previous games and giving him a chance to be something else).  There were probably other factors as well, but I feel like the reshuffle was the stem of most of them that arose.

But anyways, what are your thoughts? What are some things that we can take from this game and improve on? Things that we shouldn't try again?

I also want to bring some focus on the state of Werewolf in general.  I've noticed attendance going on a roller coaster, and I know it's not the advertising (because we do that a bit for games), so I want to get some input from past players who haven't been back for another game.

If you were a player of Werewolf but haven't been back for another game, what made you decide to leave?  What could we do to make the game better to where you'd want to play again?

Please feel free to share your thoughts in here.

@Doc @Laurentus @North @Ruguo @_zM
@taulover @Gerrick @Pj123 @Hydra @A self deprecating Kane
@Gabrielle @Mathyland @davidd1979

And I'll also tag people from previous games as well, as I'd like to hear everyone's input, especially regarding the last few questions.

@Red Mones  @Almonaster  @Fortis Scriptor  @Syraj  @Sapphiron  @Elbbsas
@Wintermoot   @Katie  @Barnes   @Crushita  @Justinian Ezkantion   @Aragonn  @BraveSirRobin
@trader  @DekuNut  @Ashton Mercer

Honestly, CYOW frustrates me a lot. We don't really know what we're signing up for, and I'm not a particularly big fan of power roles that do these scenarios during the night phases, because it unbalances the game. Otherwise, the game was fine for seasoned players, but we could probably have linked some of the rules and past games in the sign-up thread when we saw there were going to be a lot of new players.

Honestly, CYOW frustrates me a lot. We don't really know what we're signing up for, and I'm not a particularly big fan of power roles that do these scenarios during the night phases, because it unbalances the game. Otherwise, the game was fine for seasoned players, but we could probably have linked some of the rules and past games in the sign-up thread when we saw there were going to be a lot of new players.

CYOW might work if we knew what we were actually choosing.
As it is, we're just sort of blindly stabbing away at encoded phrases that don't have any useful value in making a choice.

So here's where I stand with CYOW, which I'll probably get a bit of flack for:  I actually really like CYOW and do want to continue experimenting with it in the future, but I'd be lying if I said that I wanted it to win on the poll for this game.  In reality, I actually didn't.

After Laurentus had made his poll and gave people a choice for his game, I didn't feel right just throwing up a game out of nowhere without in some way regarding that same idea.  In reality I wanted to do either a basics game or one that incorporated another idea I was working on (a multiplying Werewolf type of game).  But again, I wanted to give people the choice in what they wanted, since their original choice didn't get to come into fruition.

Since CYOW has proven popular in the past (and even 17 was well received), I figured it was only right to put it on the poll even if I personally didn't want it to win (because I wasn't ready to really devote all my energy to writing another on-the-fly story soon after the heavy effort I wrote into 17's story).  In all honesty, I was actually really hoping the Alice in Wonderland vanilla roles (well, vanilla with 1- 2 uncommon roles depending on attendence) game would win, and was thrilled to see that it tied with CYOW, only to be sad to see it lose by a single vote in a tie-breaker vote where only 5 people participated.

But because CYOW was the winning choice, I wasn't going to welch on that and write something else entirely.   I put it on the list, so I was ready for the scenario for if it won, which it did.  Thankfully, even if my creative energy really wasn't up to speed on this one, I was at the very least relieved when the winning choices geared toward a genre that I could snatch a previously used theme from (which was Werewolf 2's theme).

Despite the lack of effort that I admittedly threw a bit of into this one, it was still fun.  But I think CYOW does need to sit on the backburner for a bit.

The next few games I host, I'll be taking a few steps back.  Werewolf 20's big theme will be pushed to at least 25, and games I host in between now and then will be either vanilla with story (IE the Alice in Wonderland or Neverending Story games), completely vanilla (in other words, OG Werewolf/Mafia theme), or vanilla with like 1 head wolf or other uncommon role just to keep things simple for a bit.

I do want to host a Hunger Games themed game, but I'll wait a few games before that one, when I can devote some energy into making it an actually efficient and all around entertaining game.

I think the CYOW signup process is fine as-is, as long as care is taken to ensure that the possible (or at least probable) outcomes are actually balanced. Though I would say that CYOW 1 had the clearest distinction of choices for the game's settings that more closely gave participants an idea of what the game would be.

However, I must agree that I also share a personal preference against the Adventurer roles (for a lack of a better term, using one the previous CYOW role names). Having played in these games with Adventurers, both as Adventurer and as non-Adventurer, I've found that I generally don't like its inclusion either way. In both cases the end result feels fairly arbitrary, with one feeling like you're just trying to guess what the host thinks a certain choice should imply, and the other feeling essentially random.

At its core, Werewolf is a social deduction game. The only random element supplied is the assignment of roles (and tie-breaks); the interaction between players leads to the emergence of all the other results. Adding unrelated chance elements, including Adventurer choices, to me at least detracts from the game more than it adds.

That said, I'm fine with the Adventurer roles and I think it can/has lead to some very interesting and fun results, I just have a preference against it.


In the last tiebreaker vote the only other option was "game with new mechanics mixed in," which for me felt too risky for me to vote for without knowing what such mechanics were and how they'd affect the game (especially if they included random elements).

If I'm honest, the reshuffle really annoyed me. Losing the lead wolf role was rather annoying and, to be frank, if I then became a non-power role I would have likely complained. Reshuffling the roles is something that I think should really be avoided in the future at all costs.

I actually like the adventurer role. The element of random chance spices things up a bit, makes things interesting.

As for CYOW, it can work and it can be interesting but I definitely think somethings should not be part of the randomizer, especially the number of wolves. The ability for the wolves to win by night two really, really makes things impossible for the townies.

As for CYOW, it can work and it can be interesting but I definitely think somethings should not be part of the randomizer, especially the number of wolves. The ability for the wolves to win by night two really, really makes things impossible for the townies.

I think things like the number of wolves can be chosen, but all the possible choices still need to be balanced. The range of choices can't vary too wildly in such core game mechanics.

Man. I was tagged. Forgot this place existed. But, since I was called out, I may as well answer the question proposed to me.
The main reason I left wasn't because of the quality of the werewolf games here; the few I played, I enjoyed. The bigger issue was just that I stopped playing NS, and it felt weird hanging around an NS forum when I'm not playing the game any more. That's really all there is to it.
*returns to obscurity*

Man. I was tagged. Forgot this place existed. But, since I was called out, I may as well answer the question proposed to me.
The main reason I left wasn't because of the quality of the werewolf games here; the few I played, I enjoyed. The bigger issue was just that I stopped playing NS, and it felt weird hanging around an NS forum when I'm not playing the game any more. That's really all there is to it.
*returns to obscurity*

Hey, lots of us pretty much don't do NS anymore, if at all. There's also provisions to retain citizenship without an NS nation that some people use, and talk of shifting toward a more general-purpose community isn't uncommon in Wintreath.

I don't play NS much anymore, hell, I keep having to revive my nation. I still putter around. This has kinda....grown from a NS forum into a group.

Yeah, if there are gonna be more wolves, there needs to be a vigilante.

Guess I'll have to do another round around here sometime then.

Welp, in the first place i want to say that it has been a pleasure to share this werewolf game with you, and i hope i didnt commit too many begginer mistakes (in the few oportunities that we had).

Talking about feedback, i dont have anything new to say: there were too many wolfs, specially in a game with such a big amount of new players, and I wouldnt say that the pre-game election was a good adition, at least for me, as i would have liked more an upfrom votation

Despite that, it was a lot of fun trying to catch up to the more experienced players, and i would give it another try, specially if its a simplified version

Welp, in the first place i want to say that it has been a pleasure to share this werewolf game with you, and i hope i didnt commit too many begginer mistakes (in the few oportunities that we had).

Talking about feedback, i dont have anything new to say: there were too many wolfs, specially in a game with such a big amount of new players, and I wouldnt say that the pre-game election was a good adition, at least for me, as i would have liked more an upfrom votation

Despite that, it was a lot of fun trying to catch up to the more experienced players, and i would give it another try, specially if its a simplified version

The pre game election, if I assume you mean the choices you make at signups, is only a thing with CYOW.  It's basically what makes up the core of the game, since those choices all affect how the game will go from that point...hence being called Choose Your Own Werewolf.

But as I said, it's only a thing in CYOW.  If the winning choice in the poll had been anything else, signups would have been completely normal with no pre-game application involved.