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This is something I was chatting about on Discord the other night, and I thought I'd bring it to the forums for debate.

I think most people here knows that I enjoy being sexual and having some fun with friends, but I don't understand the hookup culture that seems so prominent in the gay community these days, especially between men, and I don't understand why so many of these hookups include unsafe sex. It makes me cringe that I'm considered at high risk for getting a STD (or would be if I was active), merely because I enjoy fooling around with other men. And it's not even prejudiced or anything...study after study shows that gay and bisexual men are at the highest risk of getting a STD because they engage in riskier behaviours such as not using a condom. It made me cringe even more when I had grindr and I'd see a profile where someone was advertising that they were on PrEP, as if that made it alright to have unsafe sex with them.

Why? I mean, after the HIV epidemic decimated the gay community and halted progress toward gay rights for nearly a decade, gay/bi men ought to be the smartest group when it comes to safe sex and avoiding STDs. I just don't get why so many people just don't seem to care.

Besides that, I just think it makes the gay community look bad...as if gay and bi men are mostly concerned with fucking, and being gay and bi shouldn't be just about finding other guys to fuck around with. When I'm sexual with someone, online or offline, it's with people that I feel I know, like, and trust...people I enjoy having that intimate, bonding experience with. I'll admit in the past offline I've done things with people that I later regretted cause they turned out to be a bit sketchy, but I'd like to think those were mistakes that I learned from and wouldn't repeat now. But it seems so...typical...of what guys want for some reason that I don't understand.

I don't even know that anyone like that would be around here...is Wintreath's gay community an exception to the norm? But I just wanted to voice how I feel on the topic and see what others thought.

The way someone put it to me was that we've had to pretty much keep it in the down-low and repressed for so long that the skyrocketing hookup phase is a result of that.  Now that we're basically free to be ourselves, that includes being able to get sexual how we want and experiment with different things.

Now, I don't know how much I actually personally believe of that, if any of it.  Considering I've never really felt I ever had to hold back or be on the down low about anything regarding my sexuality, I don't really get the feeling to be so sexually "free" to the point of, to bluntly put it, be a dumbass about it.

And I won't lie, I had a hookup phase from the time I came out all the way up to about 2017 (I came out in about 2007).  There were even encounters where we went all the way, some with a condom, some not.  Personally, I've gotten tested before any encounter without a condom, and since I'm always the top, I know it's a lower risk for me personally as opposed to the person bottoming.

What's more baffling to me is people who don't know their status or don't care to get tested.  I'm sorry, but if you don't even know if you have anything and worse, don't care to know...then we aint hooking up.

But as as a gay man, gay culture is by far one of the strangest I've encountered by far.  Ever since I came out, I've learned about all sorts of strange fetishes and kinks that I can't even fathom existing in the straight culture...at least that I've ever heard.

The adult baby fetish is one (No I don't mean the adult diaper fetish).  Like...could you see a straight woman being into a guy who had a kink of wanting to basically be like an adult baby? Or vice versa?  Would you ever think of hearing the terms Daddy/Daughter or Mommy/Son as commonly as you hear Daddy/Son?

I could probably name more examples, but you get where I'm coming from.  There's just so much odd variety in the gay culture that I couldn't see being a thing outside of it.

Admittedly it's rather fascinating just how many unusual kinks and fetishes that have surfaced and still continue to surface.

But to tie that back into my earlier bit about getting tested, there's a kink/fetish that exists for some people that is actually downright mind boggling as well as a little scary.

I've learned that there's two terms that exist to describe people in this area: Gifters, and Recievers.

Basically, a Gifter is someone that happens to be HIV positive.  They list themselves as someone who only does Bareback (aka no condom for those who don't know the term), and who normally has the internal goal of "gifting" as many people as possible with HIV.  Yes, I kid you not that this is an actual thing.

The more mind boggling ones are the Recievers.  These are HIV negative people who, again, lists themselves as only doing Bareback.  They will target only HIV positive people who also only bareback, because their main goal is to recieve the "gift" of HIV for whatever reason.  Again, not kidding.

So yeah, gay culture can be a head scratcher sometimes.

So what you're saying is that you wanted hookups until you spent some time here.

I don't think I believe the repression story...it would possibly explain older generations who were actually repressed, but you would expect it to fade away with newer generations that grew up with more sexual liberty. It also doesn't explain why this is specifically an issue with gay/bi men and not with lesbians. I hate to say it, but I think men are just horny and many of them don't care about catching STDs...they assume that if they do it can be cured or managed, even though we're starting to see cases of syphilis and gonorrhea that are resistant to all known antibiotics. Would straight men use condoms as much if they weren't worried about pregnancy?

You know, a few years ago I read a book about the history of gay rights in America, and like any other minority community we have people and groups that have struggled and sacrificed for the rights we have...times that the gay community came together, for example to care for dying AIDS patients that doctors and nurses were too afraid to go near. But where these people would be remembered in any other community, in ours they're mostly forgotten...gay culture, especially gay male culture, seems to just be hooking up and maybe incidentally finding a boyfriend. This depresses me because we have such a rich history, and our culture seems rather...shallow at times.

And personally, I'm fine with kinks...I have plenty of them myself, but as someone who usually prefers younger men I don't get the daddy/son thing. Being called daddy just makes me feel old, and that's not a turn-on at all. I suppose it's not too much different than a young straight guy looking for a cougar though.

The gifter/receiver thing...god, I hope that isn't actually a thing. v_v

Slut shaming anyone? Not gonna lie. This is all pretty judgemental. I'm a proponent of free love myself. If people want to hook up and take pleasure in intimate contact with others, more power to them. This is what I cant stand about gay culture, all these people that feel the need to box us into cultural norms.

For one, I think that the promiscuity in gay culture is a holdover from the days when a meaningful relationship could mean harassment or death. When a wedding and family seems like an unreasonable goal then it becomes a foregone conclusion that pleasure is the better option.

But whether or not it is cultural or just impulse it kinda irks me that y'all have such a judgemental attitude concerning the sex lives and kinks of others.

I couldn't care less about 'cultural norms', my record when it comes to NS's norms pretty much speaks for that.

But I am peeved that so many gay/bi men put mindless fucking ahead of the safety of themselves and their partners by not having safe sex, and that because of that our group is at the highest risk of STDs. Was a little more pleasure worth it? I doubt most of them think so when they catch one...especially something like HIV which is pretty much permanent. If that counts as being judgmental, then I guess that I am, and I don't apologize for caring about how that effects the gay community.

Edit: It's not even strictly a gay thing. In my life I've had two friends get a woman pregnant because they didn't use safe sex...and in one case was drunk, and I was just as pissed about that. But you have to admit, it's happens a lot more often and more casually between gay men, perhaps because they don't have to worry about getting someone pregnant. It is part of the culture between gay/bi men.

Slut shame all you want. But it's mostly the holier than thou prisses, Going on about monagamy and fidelity, that are sneaking around on grindr having risky sex. Most of us unabashed slurs take care of ourselves. It's people sitting on their pedestals being hypocrites that are putting others in danger. But go ahead. Look down on others. Real welcoming attitude.

Slut shame all you want. But it's mostly the holier than thou prisses, Going on about monagamy and fidelity, that are sneaking around on grindr having risky sex. Most of us unabashed slurs take care of ourselves. It's people sitting on their pedestals being hypocrites that are putting others in danger. But go ahead. Look down on others. Real welcoming attitude.

This is all pretty judgemental

all these people that feel the need to box us

Pot, meet Kettle.  You're going on about how our opinions are judgmental and "boxing" you into "cultural norms," yet that post was almost incredibly judgmental of our opinions and worse, tossing it into a singular category regardless of the reasoning behind those opinions.  It basically translated to "I don't care what you say, because you're a slut shamer." Which coming from you, is pretty disappointing that you'd shut down our opinions like that.

News flash: Not everyone is out to attack what people enjoy doing.  Did I at any point in my post say that people should be ashamed of those kinks that I mentioned? No, I simply said that the gay culture has seen its share of ones that I personally find odd since you wouldn't see them outside of the gay community.  If people are into those kinks, more power to them.  While I personally wouldn't get into the kink with them, they're more than welcome to explore it with those who want to explore it with them.  But just because it's not something I'm into personally doesn't meant it's something I'm against in its entirety.  That's why there's more people out there they can explore with than just me, and that's great for them.

My main concern with hookups was people not knowing their status nor not caring to know (hence being a dumbass about it), because that is a potential danger both to themselves and their potential sexual partner.  If you want to hookup with people, again, more power to you.  But if you're going to get down and dirty all the way, then you should know what you have so that you can take the right precautions so that it doesn't pass on to your sexual partner.

The only ones I actually do condemn, however, are those who do know their sexual status and keep it a secret.  I don't care if it's because you're afraid you're going to get turned down or if it's because you're intentionally wanting to pass it your partner.  Your sexual partner has a right to know if you've got an STD or HIV, because they have the right to either protect themselves against it, or to make the call to not engage in sexual activity (which the latter is a bit harsh, since using protection is perfectly fine, I am sick of people treating HIV + people like they have the plague and can't be touched).

And I believe that's what Wintermoot is getting at as well.  He mentioned that he enjoys having fun with friends, and I mentioned that I had a hookup phase that ended roughly last year out of choice.  We're not saying "Don't hookup" and saying that it's wrong in any form.  If you want to get down with someone and have a bit of fun, go for it, more power to you.  All we're saying is that if you're going to hookup, be safe about it.  Know your status, use a condom, and be smart about it.  The fact that more people are jumping their nuts without protection as if it's a sin to use a condom is baffling.  The fact that I'll come across even HIV + people who strictly seek bareback only is even more baffling.  If anyone should be wanting to protect someone from anything potentially life threatening, it should be someone who contracted it themselves and knows how life changing it can be.  Just because someone is on PrEP or is considered "undetectable" doesn't automatically mean that you're going to come out unscathed when you have unsafe sex with them.

So yes, fuck who you want, have fun with who you want, and have a good time.  Just go in smart about it.  Know your status, know your sexual partner's status, and protect yourself if there's a high risk of contracting an STD or HIV.  If you want to go bareback about it, make sure you both are clean status wise, because a one night stand isn't worth a disease that could alter your life.

I just love that you start this off with, "dont call me judgemental because that is judgmental." Makes me laugh. And if I may, I believe you say with some incredulity something about, "can you imagine a straight woman wanting that?" Because. Yes. I can. I've seen it. Just because you arent out right saying ew doesnt mean you arent condescending to those you speak of.

And I believe Moot ended his first post with a comment about how all the hooking up "makes the community look bad." If that's not judgemental I dont know what is.

And I find it equally funny that you're assuming I'm being condescending about the people I speak of when that's far from it.

No, just because I find something strange or unusual doesn't equate to being condescending.  In fact, I even at one point said that I found it pretty fascinating how many different, some more unusual kinks there are that exist out there.  Sure, there may be points where I personally dislike certain kinks to the point where I may find it a little gross personally, but again, personal preference.  Everyone has them, but it doesn't make that kink inherently bad just because I personally don't like them.

And again, I even also said that while there are some that I may not personally partake in, that doesn't mean that they're necessarily bad or weird or anything like that.  Everyone has their different likes and dislikes, and just because I personally may not be into something that someone is into doesn't mean that someone else won't be into it as well.  And that's fine.  People will like what they like, and more power to them. You continue liking what you like and don't let anyone tell you that it's bad, because most of the time it's not.

Again, completely one thing if you're HIV+ and you know and protect your partner from the potential against it.  Another entirely when you're HIV+ and know, or worse you don't know nor care to know, and the only thing you care about is not having to use a condom when you have sex.

If you know your status and take the right precautions, then have a good time.  If you don't know your status, learn it.  And if you know your status and you are HIV+, then please be considerate to your sexual partner and use protection, because again a one night stand isn't worth the potential risk of transmitting your HIV to them as well.

Edit: I will concede to the point of Moot's post, after reading it again.

Personally, I don't really care as much about the hooking up as long as you're safe about it.

I just dint care what someone else does. I take care of myself and those I care about. What others choose to do is honestly none of my business.

According to the CDC, men who had sex with men accounted for 83% of reported syphilis cases in 2014, are 17 times more likely to get anal cancer due to HPV, and account for over half of all new HIV infections. For these reasons the CDC recommends that men who have sex with men get vaccinated for hepatitis A and B and for HPV just because they are considered part of a high-risk group.

I'm sorry that I'm not proud of being part of a community that is statistically proven to be high-risk for spreading STDs because they care more about mindless fucking than about being safe. I'm sorry that I believe that fact makes the gay community look bad. I'm not personally against other people having hookups, but it bothers me that every website or app I've ever been to that was geared toward gay men ended up being a bunch of guys looking to fool around, even when that wasn't the original purpose of that site. It bothers me that I've had so many guys befriend me over the years not to be my friend, but to get in my pants, and on the other hand it bothers me to know that there are many gay/bi guys that won't even give me the time of day as a friend because I'm not considered sexually attractive. I know that's not everyone, and that there's a lot of individual in the community that are truly about finding love and living life with the person they love, but you can't deny that sex defines the community, and that bothers me.

It doesn't bother me if people want to hookup or be sluts, as long as they're safe about it. It bothers me that to a great deal of men in the gay community, sex is all that matters, and because of it we're harming people through unsafe practices.

I'm sorry. I dont mean to be shady. But to be honest it sounds like you've had some bad experiences. I'm sorry you cant find what you want. But that doesnt give you a right or a reason to be nasty about those of us that wanna hook up. On grindr. Or any other dating app. That's just rude. You dont have to be proud of our community. You can feel any which way. Be salty. But dont trash talk the rest of us.

Moot didn't bring up Grindr, nor has he, explicitly or implicitly, judged you for your choices. Your body, your choice.

This is a conversation about safe sex, issues from unsafe sex and the removal of choice from people who may not want to "do the fuck" as it were, if they knew if someone else's sexual history contained unsafe sex.

I agree that unsafe sex in the gay community is an issue.

Unsafe sex has severely negative consequences and I wouldn't want to be at risk of contracting STDs, which could mess up my life in a multitude of ways, because being sexually active without appropriate protective measures is considered acceptable. Do whatever you wanna do with a trusted partner but if someone is partaking in multiple, short-term sexual relationships, then I think it's important for everyone, that they're taking appropriate measures to keep themselves, and thus, their future partners safe. This statement reigns true for both genders, regardless of sexual orientation. To me the equation is simple, by having a history of unsafe sex, even if it is a single encounter, significantly increases the risk for future partners, especially if this hypothetical person is not open or truthful about their sexual history (and it's not like everyone is diligent about getting someone's detailed sexual history in all situations). It removes the ability for people to make an informed consensual decision.

While it is important for everyone involved in a sexual encounter to make sure things are safe on all fronts, it is important to remember that the cultural norm of unsafe sex, only serves to make that process more complicated and difficult.

It should also be noted that I didn't really use LGBT terms or pronouns (he/she) in my argument (I did my best to avoid it, but if I overlooked one here or there, let it be known it wasn't my intention). This isn't simply an issue in the LGBT community but one for everyone regardless of sexuality. It is, however, considerably more prominent with gay male couples.

Changing this culture would, in my opinion, go a long way to helping provide more informed consent and decreasing the rates of STDs in the LGBT community.

I'm sorry. I dont mean to be shady. But to be honest it sounds like you've had some bad experiences. I'm sorry you cant find what you want. But that doesnt give you a right or a reason to be nasty about those of us that wanna hook up. On grindr. Or any other dating app. That's just rude. You dont have to be proud of our community. You can feel any which way. Be salty. But dont trash talk the rest of us.

I have the right to have an opinion about a community that I'm a part of and to express it. I think there are issues with people only care about others as far as they want to fuck them, with engaging in unsafe sex with them, and as a result with high rates of STDs. Again, I'm not saying that's everyone in the community, far from it, but it's enough of an issue to be fairly pervasive in it. I haven't been nasty in expressing my opinion, and I certainly haven't trash talked anyone, least of all anyone here. On the contrary, you're the one that has responded with ad hominem attacks on those you don't agree with rather than debating the merits of the points expressed.