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I'd like (and i'm getting picky here) that, should the monarch revoke a title, they must explain why they have done so.

I'd like (and i'm getting picky here) that, should the monarch revoke a title, they must explain why they have done so.

We can operate under the expectation that the Monarch will provide a reason why. I'm not sure how I feel about requiring the Monarch to do something like that.

If we look at the fundemental laws, if the monarch should take away someone's citezenship they would have to explain why.

If we look at the fundemental laws, if the monarch should take away someone's citezenship they would have to explain why.

Yes, but that is something given for the region while this is something given by the Monarch. It is the Monarch's grant and therefore how he conducts it is up to them, in my opinion.

You both make good points. Removing a title is not as serious as revoking someone's citizenship. It could also lead to a lot of drama if the monarch gives a reason.

That said, I would like the consistency, as the monarch is required to do this for revoking someone's citizenship already, and that can get no less heated.

Ok, I'll add a new section later.

Title
1. This Act is to be cited as the Wintreath Honorific Titles Act.

Legislation
2. The Monarch may, at their discretion, grant a title to any citizen or non-citizen as the Monarch sees fit, for their service to Wintreath or to the Monarch. The Monarch may style such titles as they sees fit, except for where it conflicts with legally established titles, and such titles do not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in of itself.
3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles for any reason they see fit at any time at their discretion, however, The Monarch must make the reason for all revocations publicly know.

Ok, how about this?

I do not think we should have such a requirement and there are three reasons as to why: It is a violation of our separation from the Monarchy, there is no overriding interest for us including that, and it would be more inconsistent with the rest of our laws of a similar nature.

First and foremost, in Wintreath we have a strong separation between the Storting and the Monarchy, and except for granting additional powers to the Monarchy, or in situations where it is in the interests of our citizens to override such separation, the Monarchy and Storting do not interfere with the other. Even with the authorities we grant the Monarchy, we grant the Monarchy wide authority to implement and decide how to implement the powers we give them. The only cases where this would not be a violation of this, would be where overriding interests exist, and it is in the interests of our government and Citizens to do so. However with these ceremonial titles, and thus this act, I do not believe there is any overriding interests that would make such a requirement proper in this act, unlike with Citizenship.

Now there are several reasons for the requirement of a statement in the revocation of citizenship, many of which are historical or practical. First is that the first Storting delegated the authority to grant Citizenship to the Monarchy, for the purposes of expediency. As such, there was a controlling interest to grant the Monarchy the authority over revoking Citizenship applications as well, in addition to the requirement that the Monarchy regularly looks over all Citizens and revokes the citizenship of those that no longer meet the requirements for holding citizenship. However, the reason for the public statement is two fold:
1) There is a overriding interest, as losing Citizenship also means losing positions in the Government, losing the authority to vote, and losing the protections of the Wintrean Legal System. As such there is a overriding interest in such a statement
2) The initial act was a codification of Decree 001 by the Storting, with the addition of a Demonym. This was required within Decree 001.

The reason why this requirement survives to this day is because of the overriding interest, and because of the fact that a revocation is able to be appealed to the Storting directly. As such, in order to hear the appeal properly, the Storting must know the reasons for the revocation by the Monarch, in order to understand the reasoning for doing so. There is no such appeal here, therefore the requirement is useless at best.

Finally, the only other thing that is comparable to this, which is the Commendation of Wintreath, does not require any reasoning given for having it revoked within law, in-fact it grants the Monarch the authority to revoke it so long as he or she feels it proper to do so, and does not require a reason to be stated. this means that such a requirement would be more inconsistent with our current laws, that it would be without it. Even Nobility can be revoked without reason given, and that arguably grants more rights, privileges, and authorities than these titles or a commendation does.

So to conclude, such a requirement should be omitted, not only for consistency, but also to not unduly interfere with the affairs of the Monarchy, and such a requirement would be an undue influence because there is no overriding interest of the Storting in it. 

Also, I will note that there is no requirement for this in the Fundamental Laws, the only section mentioning revocation of Citizenship is in Article III, which permits a final appeal to the Storting on a court case involving a loss of Citizenship.

@North

Title
1. This Act is to be cited as the Wintreath Honorific Titles Act.

Legislation
2. The Monarch may, at their discretion, grant a title to any citizen or non-citizen as the Monarch sees fit, for their service to Wintreath or to the Monarch. The Monarch may style such titles as they sees fit, except for where it conflicts with legally established titles, and where such titles do not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in and of itself.
3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles, at their discretion, for any reason they see fit and at any time at their discretion,. hHowever, The Monarch must make the reason for all revocations publicly known.

I made some corrections and rearranged some words for clarity. All my changes are highlighted in red, and deletions are denoted with a strikethrough. Below is the changed version without markup.

Title
1. This Act is to be cited as the Wintreath Honorific Titles Act.

Legislation
2. The Monarch may, at their discretion, grant a title to any citizen or non-citizen as the Monarch sees fit, for their service to Wintreath or to the Monarch. The Monarch may style such titles as they see fit, except where it conflicts with legally established titles, and where such titles do not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in and of itself.
3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles, at their discretion, for any reason and at any time. However, The Monarch must make the reason for all revocations publicly known.

@North

Title
1. This Act is to be cited as the Wintreath Honorific Titles Act.

Legislation
2. The Monarch may, at their discretion, grant a title to any citizen or non-citizen as the Monarch sees fit, for their service to Wintreath or to the Monarch. The Monarch may style such titles as they sees fit, except for where it conflicts with legally established titles, and where such titles do not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in and of itself.
3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles, at their discretion, for any reason they see fit and at any time at their discretion,. hHowever, The Monarch must make the reason for all revocations publicly known.

I made some corrections and rearranged some words for clarity. All my changes are highlighted in red, and deletions are denoted with a strikethrough. Below is the changed version without markup.

Title
1. This Act is to be cited as the Wintreath Honorific Titles Act.

Legislation
2. The Monarch may, at their discretion, grant a title to any citizen or non-citizen as the Monarch sees fit, for their service to Wintreath or to the Monarch. The Monarch may style such titles as they see fit, except where it conflicts with legally established titles, and where such titles do not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in and of itself.
3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles, at their discretion, for any reason and at any time. However, The Monarch must make the reason for all revocations publicly known.

I like most of it except the part in section 2, the final sentence where you put in the word 'where', here.

Title
1. This Act is to be cited as the Wintreath Honorific Titles Act.

Legislation
2. The Monarch may, at their discretion, grant a title to any citizen or non-citizen as the Monarch sees fit, for their service to Wintreath or to the Monarch. The Monarch may style such titles as they see fit, except where it conflicts with legally established titles, and where such titles do not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in and of itself.
3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles, at their discretion, for any reason and at any time. However, The Monarch must make the reason for all revocations publicly known.

It changes the meaning of the sentence to something very different from the intention so I think removing that one word would be best.

Also, Chanku makes a good point. I think it would be best if we left the business of the Monarch to the Monarch. With that in mind, here is the latest version.

Title
1. This Act is to be cited as the Wintreath Honorific Titles Act.

Legislation
2. The Monarch may, at their discretion, grant a title to any citizen or non-citizen as the Monarch sees fit, for their service to Wintreath or to the Monarch. The Monarch may style such titles as they see fit, except where it conflicts with legally established titles, and such titles do not and can not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in and of itself.
3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles, at their discretion, for any reason and at any time.

What do we all think.

Also, Chanku, I would like to point out that you never did accept Katie's motion to extend debate and my seconding of that motion. You probably missed it since it was right at the end of the page but just so that we dont run out of time I though that you should know.

Sorry about that, thanks for pointing that out. Motion Passes.

I would suggest that Section 3 be amended to read as follows:

3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles, at their discretion., for any reason and at any time.

As the rest is just repetition and unnecessary.

Ok.

Title
1. This Act is to be cited as the Wintreath Honorific Titles Act.

Legislation
2. The Monarch may, at their discretion, grant a title to any citizen or non-citizen as the Monarch sees fit, for their service to Wintreath or to the Monarch. The Monarch may style such titles as they see fit, except where it conflicts with legally established titles, and such titles do not and can not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in and of itself.
3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles, at their discretion.

Now what does everyone think?

Ohhhh I misinterpreted okay. I think Section 2 should be changed to:

The Monarch may style such titles as they see fit, except where it conflicts with legally established titles, and s. Such titles do not and can not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in and of itself themselves.

Title
1. This Act is to be cited as the Wintreath Honorific Titles Act.

Legislation
2. The Monarch may, at their discretion, grant a title to any citizen or non-citizen as the Monarch sees fit, for their service to Wintreath or to the Monarch. The Monarch may style such titles as they see fit, except where it conflicts with legally established titles. Such titles do not and can not confer any additional authority or responsibilities in and of itself themselves.
3. The Monarch has the right to revoke any previously granted Honorific Titles, at their discretion.

Ok, if there are no further points I will motion to vote either later today or tomorrow.

Ok, if there are no further points I will motion to vote either later today or tomorrow.

you forgot to remove the word "itself" from section 2