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[DISCUSSION] Procedural Rules Speaker and Officers Amendment
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Chanku
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  • I introduce this amendment to the UH the changes are as follows:
    • Dissolves the Secretary Position
    • Formalizes the Officers and Offices of the Underhusen. Officers may be any citizen of Wintreath.
    • Allows the Speaker to create, amend, and dissolve Offices of the Underhusen at will.
    • Allows the Speaker to appoint and dismiss any Officer of the Underhusen at will.
    • Turns the Speaker and Speaker Pro Tempore into Officers of the Underhusen, and sets limits on their ability to amend these positions, without amending the Procedural Rules
    • Allows the Underhusen to, by a vote, establish, dissolve, and amend any Office of the Underhusen. Doing so enshrines each Office as a 'permanent office' that can only be changed by a vote of the Underhusen. (Dissolution is a bit different)
    • Allows the Underhusen to, by a vote, appoint and dismiss any Officer of the Underhusen (including the Speaker and Speaker Pro Tempore)
    • Allows the Speaker to dismiss a Speaker Pro Tempore, but has safe-guards to ensure there is always a Speaker Pro Tempore.
    • Changes the way the Speaker is selected.
    The Law
    « Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 04:31:02 AM by Chanku »
    See you later space cowboy.
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    taulover
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  • @Mathyland would you mind checking the now-revised amendment for grammar errors?
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    Mathyland
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  • @Mathyland would you mind checking the now-revised amendment for grammar errors?
    I will do so tomorrow.
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    Mathyland
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    Mathyland
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  • @taulover I wasn't completely sure on some of the commas and minor details, but here's my list of errors:
    grammar
    As for my opinion on this act itself, I think offices are a cool idea that are at least worth trying. Since Speaker selection isn't going to change, I don't have to worry about my opinion on that. I liked the details on what offices are permanent, what the Speaker can and can't do and what the rest of the Skrifa can do to balance the Speaker's power. Other than the grammar, it looks good.


    (When typing out (Section 8 ), I originally didn't have that space, and it took it as the 8) emoji :P)

    EDIT: since Chanku has now removed two sections and the sections are renumbered, refer to my post in the Citizens Platform, which has not been updated when checking my corrections.
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    « Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 12:24:30 AM by Mathyland »
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    Mathyland
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  • (Sorry to double post)

    Section 4 isn't needed because Section 8 of the Procedural Rules already states "Following the nomination period, each Skrifa shall have one (1) vote for Speaker of the Underhusen" Also, Section 8 subsection B already exists in the Procedural Rules, so amending it gets rid of the section that says "The nomination and/or voting period may be shortened at the discretion of the Monarch if the relevant Underhusen session is shortened."

    Actually, Section 3 isn't needed either because it states something that's already in the Procedural Rules and mentions the Monarch selection of the Speaker, which is an idea you removed.

    And since we're in no rush, and we need to fix these grammar errors, I motion to extend debate 48 hours.
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    Mathyland
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    Chanku
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  • (Sorry to double post)

    Section 4 isn't needed because Section 8 of the Procedural Rules already states "Following the nomination period, each Skrifa shall have one (1) vote for Speaker of the Underhusen" Also, Section 8 subsection B already exists in the Procedural Rules, so amending it gets rid of the section that says "The nomination and/or voting period may be shortened at the discretion of the Monarch if the relevant Underhusen session is shortened."

    Actually, Section 3 isn't needed either because it states something that's already in the Procedural Rules and mentions the Monarch selection of the Speaker, which is an idea you removed.

    And since we're in no rush, and we need to fix these grammar errors, I motion to extend debate 48 hours.
    I second this motion, however to clarify, I would like to state the amendments dealing with Section 8 of the Procedural Rules was something I forgot to remove when I stripped the Speaker selection amendment. I forgot I actually had those as well, so yeah, my bad.

    EDIT: Also added in some of the changes Mathyland suggested, however I clarified things and Offices formed by a vote of the Underhusen are considered Standing Offices now. This removes some ambiguity that might have arisen. Also funnily enough, you didn't point out a rather obvious misspelling of position :P
    3 people like this post: Mathyland, taulover, Imaginative Kane
    « Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 12:33:58 AM by Chanku »
    See you later space cowboy.
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  • Motion to extend debate passes.

    EDIT: Motion to extend debate is redundant because we have not yet reached the five-day maximum initial debate period, and will not reach the end of the five-day period for over 48 hours.
    I second this motion, however to clarify, I would like to state the amendments dealing with Section 8 of the Procedural Rules was something I forgot to remove when I stripped the Speaker selection amendment. I forgot I actually had those as well, so yeah, my bad.

    EDIT: Also added in some of the changes Mathyland suggested, however I clarified things and Offices formed by a vote of the Underhusen are considered Standing Offices now. This removes some ambiguity that might have arisen. Also funnily enough, you didn't point out a rather obvious misspelling of position :P
    Some thoughts (quotes from Mathy included for context and/or response):

    You might want to more clearly define what a Standing Office is. Currently, the only explanation I can find is that "The Speaker must fill an Office of the Underhusen created in this manner." However, even here it is unclear whether this refers to all Standing Offices, or only the ones directly created (rather than ones amended) by the Underhusen. It is also a bit unclear whether the Office needs to be filled until it is dissolved or merely for the duration of the term.

    Mandate is sometimes capitalized, and sometimes not. Perhaps uncapitalize all of them, since most of them seem to be in the lowercase already.

    The document also doesn't seem to define what a mandate is in this context.
    "simple-majority vote" I don't think the hyphen should be there (Section 9)
    Some parts of the law read "simple majority vote," while others read "simple-majority vote." It may be a good idea to only use one for consistency. I've only ever seen the term without the hyphen before, so I would second Mathy and suggest that.
    "provided that the Speaker appoint a replacement" "appoint" should be "appoints" (Section 14)
    Not necessarily, "appoint" may be more correct because the clause is in subjunctive mood. That said, "appoints" isn't really incorrect, especially since the subjunctive is often ignored in English.
    "The dismissed Speaker Pro Tempore remains in their positin until" In the rest of the act, you used "his/her" instead of singular their, so I would recommend doing the same here (Section 14)
    The Procedural Rules currently uses singular they in part of its provisions, so it may be good to also use "their" here for the sake of consistency.
    « Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 04:19:46 AM by taulover »
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    Chanku
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  • I have clarified that clause a bit further, and included a definition for Mandate within the procedural rules. I've also made some of the changes suggested
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    See you later space cowboy.
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  • I have clarified that clause a bit further, and included a definition for Mandate within the procedural rules. I've also made some of the changes suggested
    Hmm, you made all the previous "Mandate"s lowercase, but then added your new definition in uppercase.

    Otherwise looks good to me.
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    Chanku
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  • I have clarified that clause a bit further, and included a definition for Mandate within the procedural rules. I've also made some of the changes suggested
    Hmm, you made all the previous "Mandate"s lowercase, but then added your new definition in uppercase.

    Otherwise looks good to me.
    To be fair that was purposeful in that instance. I capitalized it due to the fact that it is being defined. Yes it is slightly nonstandard however, capitalization itself rarely is.
    See you later space cowboy.
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  • I have clarified that clause a bit further, and included a definition for Mandate within the procedural rules. I've also made some of the changes suggested
    Hmm, you made all the previous "Mandate"s lowercase, but then added your new definition in uppercase.

    Otherwise looks good to me.
    To be fair that was purposeful in that instance. I capitalized it due to the fact that it is being defined. Yes it is slightly nonstandard however, capitalization itself rarely is.
    Wouldn't that be in quotation marks instead?

    Usually when I see capitalized definitions (for instance in legal contracts), it's because the term itself is capitalized throughout the document.
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    Chanku
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  • If there exists no standing objections, I motion to vote.
    See you later space cowboy.
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  • Chanku has motioned to vote. Do we have a second?

    @Mathyland @Doc
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    Mathyland
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  • I second.
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  • Motion to vote passes.
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