View Topic

I briefly touched on this topic a few weeks ago, but The Century Foundation has come out with a report detailing the lack of civics education in American schools, the resulting lack of knowledge in those areas, and how it correlates with a growing acceptance of authoritarianism which likely contributed to the election of Donald Trump despite...or because of...his disregard for democratic values.

The report is rather lengthy and goes into the root causes of the lack of civics/history education, the growing trend toward removing community input from the education system itself, and the results, but some tidbits I found interesting regarding their survey:

• 31% of Americans can't name all three branches of their government, and 32% couldn't name any of them
• Only 53% of Americans knew that a 5-4 Supreme Court decision is a final ruling and becomes law
• 26% of Americans would vote to repeal the Fifth Amendment, which forbids requiring a person to testify against themselves
• 46% of Americans believed peaceful protests should be banned if it was in support of "offensive values"
• 50% of Americans believe the government should be able to ban practicing a religion if a majority of voters believe it to be un-American
• 25% of American millennials believe that it's unimportant for people to choose their own leaders in a democracy.
• One in six Americans believe it would be fairly or very good for the "army to rule", a rise from one in sixteen in 1995.
• 49% of Americans expressed that they would accept a leader breaking laws/rules if it "set things right"

Overall I thought the report was sobering and depressing. I agree with the conclusions of the report, but I don't see things changing in these areas and I don't see much of a chance for the reforms they're advocating being carried out. You can read the full report here.

This doesn't surprise me one bit. Ignorance and stupidity have plagued Americans for far too long, especially with regards to government.

I happened to run into this article today...it's some of the same information, but the message is that this may not just be an American phenomena...apparently respect for democracy is declining in Western countries around the world. =/

I briefly touched on this topic a few weeks ago, but The Century Foundation has come out with a report detailing the lack of civics education in American schools, the resulting lack of knowledge in those areas, and how it correlates with a growing acceptance of authoritarianism which likely contributed to the election of Donald Trump despite...or because of...his disregard for democratic values.

The report is rather lengthy and goes into the root causes of the lack of civics/history education, the growing trend toward removing community input from the education system itself, and the results, but some tidbits I found interesting regarding their survey:

• 31% of Americans can't name all three branches of their government, and 32% couldn't name any of them
• Only 53% of Americans knew that a 5-4 Supreme Court decision is a final ruling and becomes law
• 26% of Americans would vote to repeal the Fifth Amendment, which forbids requiring a person to testify against themselves
• 46% of Americans believed peaceful protests should be banned if it was in support of "offensive values"
• 50% of Americans believe the government should be able to ban practicing a religion if a majority of voters believe it to be un-American
• 25% of American millennials believe that it's unimportant for people to choose their own leaders in a democracy.
• One in six Americans believe it would be fairly or very good for the "army to rule", a rise from one in sixteen in 1995.
• 49% of Americans expressed that they would accept a leader breaking laws/rules if it "set things right"

Overall I thought the report was sobering and depressing. I agree with the conclusions of the report, but I don't see things changing in these areas and I don't see much of a chance for the reforms they're advocating being carried out. You can read the full report here.

Well, they do teach us about (almost) all of these things in school, it's just that many adults haven't touched on it in decades, so they forget.

They barely scratch the surface on history and civics, much less emphasis it in the way they need to in order to instill respect for democracy and the rights of all people. As someone who enjoys reading about history, I can tell you that it's a lot more multifaceted and complicated than the boring, streamlined version given in school textbooks. Of course, I understand that a class couldn't possibly cover every detail of American history, but I think if at some point students were required to read actual detailed biographies of some the Founding Fathers', for example, they would come away with a better understanding of the background of the period and why things happened the way it happened.

And the details just make it so much more interesting, too...history is full of drama, suspense, romance, tragedy, and anything else you'd want from television or the movies...it's just that after having to go through a school history course most people end up thinking it's a bunch of boring dates and events.

Even if it was being taught or forgotten, forgetting isn't an excuse...intellectually active Citizens wouldn't forget basic information about the processes they're taking part in and the government they're voting people into. It's information we require people from elsewhere wishing to become Citizens to know when they take their Citizenship test, why don't we require it to be known by native-born Citizens?

I imagine because of our right to remain a moron, lol. I think it's just that most people here in America are accustomed to not having to worry about that kinda thing. Which in retrospect makes the citizenry more susceptible to government propaganda/control. I have a feeling sometime in the next century we're going to get a big and disturbing wake-up call about this disturbing trend too.

They barely scratch the surface on history and civics, much less emphasis it in the way they need to in order to instill respect for democracy and the rights of all people. As someone who enjoys reading about history, I can tell you that it's a lot more multifaceted and complicated than the boring, streamlined version given in school textbooks. Of course, I understand that a class couldn't possibly cover every detail of American history, but I think if at some point students were required to read actual detailed biographies of some the Founding Fathers', for example, they would come away with a better understanding of the background of the period and why things happened the way it happened.

And the details just make it so much more interesting, too...history is full of drama, suspense, romance, tragedy, and anything else you'd want from television or the movies...it's just that after having to go through a school history course most people end up thinking it's a bunch of boring dates and events.

Even if it was being taught or forgotten, forgetting isn't an excuse...intellectually active Citizens wouldn't forget basic information about the processes they're taking part in and the government they're voting people into. It's information we require people from elsewhere wishing to become Citizens to know when they take their Citizenship test, why don't we require it to be known by native-born Citizens?

While I agree that the rote memorization of historical events is a terrible idea, I don't think focusing on the people is the best idea either. That treads a bit too close to the Great Man theory for my tastes. IMO the more interesting part of history is the societal context of events, because that's what really the driver behind historical events.

And the problem with creating historical narratives (with the drama, suspense, etc.) is that in many cases we simply don't know enough to create compelling stories without also falling to historical inaccuracy. Narratives are great to create interest in history, or for using history in a philosophy or rhetoric, but in the actual study of history those stories shouldn't be emphasized.

I think the AP history courses do a good job of this (does anyone know how they compare to college courses?). If you look at the curriculum for it, or the exam itself, the questions basically don't care about memorized events/people/dates/etc, but rather the greater societal forces and movements at work and how they interconnect with those people/events/etc.

As for instilling greater respect for democracy and civics, I doubt a more nuanced view of history would do so. Looking at history from a less simplified perspective, we're reminded time and time again that, for instance, the Founders intended to create an aristocratic government, one that was and continues to be dominated by a wealthy elite (fun fact: even white males did not have the right to vote in many states). And when democracy actually became viewed as a good thing, our nation began doing everything from committing genocide to enslaving blacks to propping up dictators, all in the name of an intangible, unachieved "democracy." When people are confronted with this harsh reality, it's very possible that they lose respect for the government that they were once taught is ideal and perfect, rather than gain respect for it.

I think the AP history courses do a good job of this (does anyone know how they compare to college courses?). If you look at the curriculum for it, or the exam itself, the questions basically don't care about memorized events/people/dates/etc, but rather the greater societal forces and movements at work and how they interconnect with those people/events/etc.

Interestingly enough, my AP US History course in high school was almost solely memorization. Seeing how I'm good at that, I aced it, which was a nice boost to my GPA with the way AP classes were weighted.

As someone who minored in history and classical studies in college, yeah, college history courses (at least most of the ones I took) are very similar to your description. Professors teach you what they want with an overarching theme/theory, then in exams and papers you're supposed to pull info from what you were taught/assigned to read and piece together something that ties in with the theme. You'll often be required to find your own primary resources to support your work as well. Much more difficult and time consuming than memorization but also more interesting and rewarding in the end. (Note that some professors may understandably fall back on multiple choice exams if the class is very large, though they often get graduate student assistants to help as well.)

I think the AP history courses do a good job of this (does anyone know how they compare to college courses?). If you look at the curriculum for it, or the exam itself, the questions basically don't care about memorized events/people/dates/etc, but rather the greater societal forces and movements at work and how they interconnect with those people/events/etc.

Interestingly enough, my AP US History course in high school was almost solely memorization. Seeing how I'm good at that, I aced it, which was a nice boost to my GPA with the way AP classes were weighted.

I do believe they (in a controversial decision) redesigned the exam and course outline several years back.

http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/08/05/429361628/the-new-new-framework-for-ap-u-s-history

Prefacing this that I am not an American, hold different values to most Americans and do not study philosophy, sociology, history, politics or education. So this is merely my outside opinion... Also of note this is only tangentially related to the topic currently being discussed so feel free to ignore me. Anyway let's get to this:

As for instilling greater respect for democracy and civics, I doubt a more nuanced view of history would do so. Looking at history from a less simplified perspective, we're reminded time and time again that, for instance, the Founders intended to create an aristocratic government, one that was and continues to be dominated by a wealthy elite (fun fact: even white males did not have the right to vote in many states). And when democracy actually became viewed as a good thing, our nation began doing everything from committing genocide to enslaving blacks to propping up dictators, all in the name of an intangible, unachieved "democracy." When people are confronted with this harsh reality, it's very possible that they lose respect for the government that they were once taught is ideal and perfect, rather than gain respect for it.

I believe this is correct, but that the problem isn't with looking at modern history (what an odd phrase) but the idealisation of the early history and historical figures of your country...

We still celebrate democracy here (literally on Guy Fawkes night) and uphold it's values; without idealising it or its instigators. British democracy has its roots in the magna carta from 1215, but it's common knowledge that the events surrounding it's creation were dubious at best. In the real world there are no great people, not really, we are all flawed human beings and upholding people as some kind of pinnacle can lead to many problems... Especially if those people are a bunch of dead oligarchs from over 200 years ago.

The world continues to accomplish many things and has over the millennia, viewing any one part of history as some kind of golden age leads you to view everything else with distortion...

People learning about the past, about history and society, I don't believe they should be told what is right and what is wrong; debate can be had about whether or not past events are right by modern standards, but the idea of enforcing those modern standards onto the learning process irks me greatly. We currently view democracy and democratic systems as the best, most right system, but how can we ever improve and change them if we hold onto the past so strongly, and teach the thinkers of the future that it's the only correct way.

Focusing in on Tau's last scentence
"When people are confronted with this harsh reality, it's very possible that they lose respect for the government that they were once taught is ideal and perfect, rather than gain respect for it."
The problem is that they were taught it was ideal and perfect, nothing is perfect, perfection is as much a fairy tale as Santa Claus, it's an unachievable, impossible goal. And distorting anyone's view of anything to be perfect is inherently flawed.

Yeah, what I meant is that better history and civics education, while good, doesn't really instill greater respect for democracy and government institutions. Nor should it: people should be able to make their own decisions about their political views without the government telling them what to believe, and if they believe that another government system is superior, I see no problem with that. What matters is that they're making an informed decision, and that's where education comes in.

Yeah, what I meant is that better history and civics education, while good, doesn't really instill greater respect for democracy and government institutions. Nor should it: people should be able to make their own decisions about their political views without the government telling them what to believe, and if they believe that another government system is superior, I see no problem with that. What matters is that they're making an informed decision, and that's where education comes in.

Totally agree!

• 46% of Americans believed peaceful protests should be banned if it was in support of "offensive values"
• 50% of Americans believe the government should be able to ban practicing a religion if a majority of voters believe it to be un-American

• 25% of American millennials believe that it's unimportant for people to choose their own leaders in a democracy.

• One in six Americans believe it would be fairly or very good for the "army to rule", a rise from one in sixteen in 1995.

[/list]

Let's be fair here, people get angry with the system, blame it for all their problems, tear it down, replace it with something else, usually something worse, and when that invariably falls apart, usually from war or self collapse, promise to never be so foolish again, repeat. It's a cycle as old as humanity.

That may be but a considerable portion of Americans actually support having their rights & freedoms taken away. That's pretty disappointing...