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Decrees of Werewolf
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Michi
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  • Hear ye, hear ye! This is Pengu here with a special announcement to any and everyone here who is/will be/is considering hosting a werewolf game.

    As many of you know, Werewolf has become something of an asset to our region, to where we've had many a tourist appear from various regions to take part.  Some have even joined our very region after becoming involved in our games.

    While unfortunate, it's necessary for Werewolf to have occasional Decrees to help keep the game on track in terms of its integrity, as well as other ways.  That being the case, this thread will house both past, current, and future decrees that may pop up.

    Decree #1 - On the matter of Inactive Hosts
    Quote
    Werewolf Decree #1
    All hosts must end their current round within a week or 168 hours after the round itself has reached its deadline time (72 hours from its start for the first day phase, 48 hours from its start for other day phases, 24 hours from its start for night phases).  If a host has not come online to end the round, or has been online but has not ended the round within that period of time, the game will be hereby ended, and the topic will be locked.


    At this point forward on this, May 11th, 2016 will this decree take effect on current and future games.

    Decree #2 - On the matter of Game Integrity and Spamming
    Quote
    Werewolf Decree #2
    Any player that has been caught cheating or harming the integrity of the game will be given a penalty.  Instances of cheating or game-harming and their default consequences are such:

    1. Players who are considered "Invincible" via win condition or are stated as such via their role description are asked to obey the rules of the game regardless of their invincibility.  This includes: not revealing comrades, scan/defense choices,or the like, as well as going back and editing posts once they've been revealed in an attempt to hide evidence/implicate players.  If a player is an "Invincible" role that is caught cheating in these manners, the host will have two choices they may enact (if they have not added their own bit about it in the rules): They may turn the role into a mortal one and (if they're a bad role) make them fair game in the current or next Day Phase or (if they're a good role) make them fair game and unable to be defended in the next night phase.  They may also choose to remove the player from the game entirely.

    2. Players who are "dead" and clutter the thread harm the game by derailing it and causing active players to become confused, which can lead to people not voting in the day phase if it trickles over.  While talking at night is fine if the rules allow it, we must remember that Werewolf is a game, and not a general chat thread (that's what the Howling Tavern is for).  If dead players clutter the thread (whether or not the no-dead talking rule does/doesn't exist), they will be asked to take off-game discussion elsewhere.  If it continues, they will be given a second warning, and if it continues they are at risk of being barred from the next Werewolf.

    3. Dead players are also asked to not reveal anything about the game, whether it be people they've scanned, defended, attacked, their companions (good or bad), or anything that they've learned.  Revealing any of this gives a potential and unfair advantage to either side, which harms the integrity of the game.  Dead players who are caught hinting choices/reveals will be asked to delete their post (via PM) or alter it to remove the implicating material.  If it continues, they are at risk of being barred from participating in the next Werewolf.  Dead players who are caught outright revealing game-breaking info will automatically be barred from the next Werewolf with no exceptions.

    4. Players who are in a special role (Seer, defender, guardian, werewolf, assassin, etc...) are asked to follow the "No stating/hinting your role/powers/night choices" rule to a T if it exists in the game thread.  Any players that attempt to work around this rule in any shape or form will automatically enact the consequence.   This is a game of acting and convincing that you're innocent.  If the rules dictate that you can't speak anything about your role/powers...find another way and respect that rule.  If the rule doesn't exist in the current Werewolf, then this penalty doesn't take effect.

    These will be the default actions/penalties on discovered actions of cheating or other forms of game-harming in present and future games.  If a host wishes to add their own flair to these by adding their own caveats to their own rules in their games (provided the rules are within the limits of being fair to the players), they are more than welcome to do so.

    At this point forward on this, October 26th, 2016 will this decree take effect on current and future games.
    1 person likes this post: taulover
    « Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 10:19:46 AM by Pengu »
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    Michi
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    Michi
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  • Hear ye, hear ye, Pengu here with another Decree at hand!

    As stated in the previous decree, Werewolf has become something of an asset here in our region that has brought forth many from all parts of NS.  We've built up our own community here in this game of paranoia and mayhem.

    Despite the game's behavioral intentions, it's still a game that is built around integrity and honor from the player, regardless of them being in a good or bad role.  It's a game that functions best when everyone follows the rules, whether they be the ones written by the hosts or the unwritten ones that, while unspoken, are generally understood in the same realm of "Common sense."  When players break or exploit loopholes in either types of these rules, it throws the game in an unwelcome, mood-dampening direction that may turn players (new or returning) away from the game entirely.

    Whether you're a dead player, living player, or player that cannot die, these rules still apply.  It's a little unsettling when people don't follow and potentially ruin the enjoyment for others by: revealing roles after death, editing posts to hide evidence, cluttering the topic after death, revealing their own role pre-death despite rules against, hinting at roles/powers/scan-results despite rules against it, and other such natures.

    However, to keep the integrity of the game in tact, this new decree will enforce that those rules be followed by inflicting a penalty of sorts on the players that try to exploit loopholes.  It's not the route I wanted to take, but current game circumstances have dictated its necessity.
    Quote
    Werewolf Decree #2
    Any player that has been caught cheating or harming the integrity of the game will be given a penalty.  Instances of cheating or game-harming and their default consequences are such:

    1. Players who are considered "Invincible" via win condition or are stated as such via their role description are asked to obey the rules of the game regardless of their invincibility.  This includes: not revealing comrades, scan/defense choices,or the like, as well as going back and editing posts once they've been revealed in an attempt to hide evidence/implicate players.  If a player is an "Invincible" role that is caught cheating in these manners, the host will have two choices they may enact (if they have not added their own bit about it in the rules): They may turn the role into a mortal one and (if they're a bad role) make them fair game in the current or next Day Phase or (if they're a good role) make them fair game and unable to be defended in the next night phase.  They may also choose to remove the player from the game entirely.

    2. Players who are "dead" and clutter the thread harm the game by derailing it and causing active players to become confused, which can lead to people not voting in the day phase if it trickles over.  While talking at night is fine if the rules allow it, we must remember that Werewolf is a game, and not a general chat thread (that's what the Howling Tavern is for).  If dead players clutter the thread (whether or not the no-dead talking rule does/doesn't exist), they will be asked to take off-game discussion elsewhere.  If it continues, they will be given a second warning, and if it continues they are at risk of being barred from the next Werewolf.

    3. Dead players are also asked to not reveal anything about the game, whether it be people they've scanned, defended, attacked, their companions (good or bad), or anything that they've learned.  Revealing any of this gives a potential and unfair advantage to either side, which harms the integrity of the game.  Dead players who are caught hinting choices/reveals will be asked to delete their post (via PM) or alter it to remove the implicating material.  If it continues, they are at risk of being barred from participating in the next Werewolf.  Dead players who are caught outright revealing game-breaking info will automatically be barred from the next Werewolf with no exceptions.

    4. Players who are in a special role (Seer, defender, guardian, werewolf, assassin, etc...) are asked to follow the "No stating/hinting your role/powers/night choices" rule to a T if it exists in the game thread.  Any players that attempt to work around this rule in any shape or form will automatically enact the consequence.   This is a game of acting and convincing that you're innocent.  If the rules dictate that you can't speak anything about your role/powers...find another way and respect that rule.  If the rule doesn't exist in the current Werewolf, then this penalty doesn't take effect.

    These will be the default actions/penalties on discovered actions of cheating or other forms of game-harming in present and future games.  If a host wishes to add their own flair to these by adding their own caveats to their own rules in their games (provided the rules are within the limits of being fair to the players), they are more than welcome to do so.

    At this point forward on this, October 26th, 2016 will this decree take effect on current and future games.

    And to explain further beyond the decree:

    1.  Just because you're in a role that can't die/can only die after a condition is met, it's expected that you play the game fairly.  If you were the one playing and someone else exploited the same rule, it would be something that would ruin the entertainment for players.  When a player goes out and reveals everything about the other team, their team, or tries to give his/the other team an edge, it cheapens the experience.  Nobody wants that experience cheapened when they came to play a good-natured and friendly game of paranoia and acting.

    2. As mentioned, it's really great that people are talking, but if there is a 3 page discussion on popcorn going on (it's happened, though not in this region), and it's halfway through the day phase, it becomes annoying.  People will forget that it's even the day phase since the announcement gets buried under countless posts about off-topic material.  While it's great that people are talking, we have to remember that Werewolf is first and foremost a game.  Many times there will be some sort of Dead PM thread, and if not...there's no harm in just watching sometimes.  Even if there isn't a "no talking after death" rule, again it's just thinking about how you'd feel if you were still playing the game and the dead started to talk when you had to wade through posts to find game-related discussions.

    3.  This goes back into the first point.  Even though you're dead, you're still a part of the game...which means the rules still apply to you.  Revealing game breaking information such as who the bad guys are or who the power roles are after your death is what causes games to live shortly and end on a sour note.  It makes people hesitate to join in the next one because they may feel that they won't get to enjoy it before more people jump in to exploit the rules or ruin the game for everyone playing it.  Since one can't be "removed" from a game after they're dead, the only logical step is to bar someone from being able to join the next game.

    4. Really, this is people playing on semantics, which is frankly quite frustrating.  If it says in the rules: "Roles/powers/villain names can’t be hinted, told, disclosed, or anything of the like in game. "  Then it means if it's related to your role in any shape or form (who you scanned, who you defended, who you killed, etc...), don't discuss, hint, disclose, or anything related to you getting people to catch on to your role.  If it's saying something in a way that, when you die people will realize you were writing it there on the wall to them that such-and-such was a bad/good guy (excluding continuous votes for someone, of course), then you're hinting/disclosing your role/power and thus are breaking that rule.  It's really easy to build up a perfectly logical argument against someone without resorting to letting people know that you scanned them.  It's the reason that rule even exists - to draw out your creativity in implicating a player without having to resort to letting people know that you know their identity.
    « Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 08:51:33 AM by Pengu »
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    Michi
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    Laurentus
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  • The very last rule goes way too far. If it takes effect, then what Sapph did is equally dodgy to what I did, but I don't mind, since it's never been against any of the rules.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Michi
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  • Actually, Sapph was talked to about it in PM.  How is the last one taking it too far when it's literally just saying "If the rule of role/power/name revealing exists, follow it.  If it doesn't, don't worry about it." ?
    « Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 09:06:57 AM by Pengu »
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    Michi
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  • And to reiterate that in the current X2 game, it's literally the first rule:

    Quote
    1) Roles/powers/villain names can’t be hinted, told, disclosed, or anything of the like in game.  The only exception of course is if you’re recruited by Owlman after he’s scanned you. Villains that break this rule will be removed from the game after being executed by the lovely Harley Quinn.  It’s her birthday today, and she’s REALLY anxious to use her new mallot on rule breakers!

    The important parts being emphasized.  It's essentially the airtight way of saying "Don't discuss your role/power/name in any shape or form or you'll be removed from the game."

    All that last bit is saying is that if such a rule exists, then the consequence in which that rule states (in X2's sense, it'd be removal from the game) would be enacted.  If the consequence was a warning and then a removal if it continued, then it would follow that method.  The consequence itself is at the discretion of the host should they even choose to have that rule in the first place, not to mention, again, these are defaults for if a host doesn't have rules against these instances.
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    Laurentus
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  • Because the wording is too broad. Semantics it may be, but nothing in the rules ever even came close to sounding like Sapph may not give bullshit reasoning which will hint at his role and be my doom when he dies. It's pretty much even become established strategy at this point when the Wolf you're pursuing is being particularly tricky. Trying to enforce a penalty for it could lead to all sorts of trouble too, since defining a logical argument is a lot harder than it sounds. What about people who just joke-post reasons for voting for people?

    I even found it a nice challenge in one of the previous games when Sapph and Moot gave such terrible reasoning to vote for me, since it made me absolutely positive that one of them was the Seer, and I adapted my strategy accordingly. I did the same thing in this game.
    2 people like this post: taulover, Colberius X
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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  • Topic has been opened, @taulover.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Michi
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  • Because the wording is too broad. Semantics it may be, but nothing in the rules ever even came close to sounding like Sapph may not give bullshit reasoning which will hint at his role and be my doom when he dies. It's pretty much even become established strategy at this point when the Wolf you're pursuing is being particularly tricky. Trying to enforce a penalty for it could lead to all sorts of trouble too, since defining a logical argument is a lot harder than it sounds. What about people who just joke-post reasons for voting for people?

    I even found it a nice challenge in one of the previous games when Sapph and Moot gave such terrible reasoning to vote for me, since it made me absolutely positive that one of them was the Seer, and I adapted my strategy accordingly. I did the same thing in this game.

    But therein lies the problem.  Imagine if you will that you weren't the Batman, but a regular "bad" guy.  Sapph dies, and say Colby picks up on Sapph's posts.  Sapph was gunning for you specifically, but it could have just been him going for you in hopes of believing you were a bad guy.  But then the posts that Colby quoted start to make sense...the "tingling" sensation, the "voice in my head."

    You become the next target, and it's realized that Sapph was actually hinting that he'd scanned you by saying things that at first glance seemed irrelevant.

    Sure, for some players it's going to seem like silly things, but for players who are established in Werewolf, they become tells.  Just like when you start on a train of wanting to quote movies when you know you're about to be lynched, players who have been the Seer (not just Sapphiron) have sometimes resorted to their own tells that players will automatically pick up on after death to let them know their scan choices (outside of just continuous votes against someone).

    It's up to the host on whether they want to even have the rule in the first place.  But the point of the rule is to discourage ANY hinting or telling of roles, powers, or anything related to the like.  It's always been the intention behind it, there's nothing broad about the wording whatsoever.  The way it's worded is literally telling people to not say anything about their role or their powers whatsoever, and if they do they risk being removed from the game, revealed, or whatever other penalty the rule has.

    This addition is just adding the clarification to that.  It's literally just repeating the fact that if the rule exists in the game, it will be enforced no matter what.  If the rule doesn't exist, then it's not even a worry.
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    Michi
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  • Topic has been opened, @taulover.

    And you said that, but it was still locked.  But now it's opened.  :P
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    Laurentus
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  • I was certain I unlocked it. Anyway.

    Ah, but that's the thing: if I didn't have the advantage of being invincible, then I wouldn't have killed Sapph, I would have gone for my previous strategy of killing off everyone he could scan, making him toothless. Adaptability. It's awesome.

    The wording is way too broad, since literally anything can be seen as such after the shit has hit the fan. Even voting without reason could become shorthand for "I'm the Seer, do what the fuck I tell you to do, or suffer the consequences." There is no way to plug this exploit. Crafty people like Sapph will find ways around it, without even realising they're breaking the game (which I'm not convinced he does, anyway), since it's simply in his nature to be so crafty.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
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    Michi
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  • I was certain I unlocked it. Anyway.

    Ah, but that's the thing: if I didn't have the advantage of being invincible, then I wouldn't have killed Sapph, I would have gone for my previous strategy of killing off everyone he could scan, making him toothless. Adaptability. It's awesome.

    The wording is way too broad, since literally anything can be seen as such after the shit has hit the fan. Even voting without reason could become shorthand for "I'm the Seer, do what the fuck I tell you to do, or suffer the consequences." There is no way to plug this exploit. Crafty people like Sapph will find ways around it, without even realising they're breaking the game (which I'm not convinced he does, anyway), since it's simply in his nature to be so crafty.

    Hence the PMing bit.  Remember, there is no set consequence for that rule.  It could be warnings and eventual removal for continuous accounts, or anything else that the host chooses.  Whether the host chooses to automatically enact that penalty right on the first offense or whether they choose to talk to the person first and dish out warnings, again, that's entirely up to them.

    In the end, you have to remember that these aren't the end-all-be-all-absolute-rules that every game must obey...these are just the default actions to any of these, including that last bit.  The host is welcome to do as they please so long as they keep the rules fair to the players.  But should the host either not include rules on the first 3 or keep any of the 4 fairly ambiguous/open to loopholes, these would automatically close that possibility and dish out a consequence to those that would try to exploit that loophole.
    « Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 10:09:44 AM by Pengu »
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