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Appeal to the Op Team over my Ban in #Wintreath
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Govindia
  • Former Citizen
  • I wish to appeal my ban that was placed on me by axis_of_evil (aka Joshua Bluteisen on the forums) on Saturday morning.

    The claim was that I was banned for consistently violating my probation.  This was not the case at all.   

    I show here evidence of the conversation log for the period that transpired this past Friday and Saturday, here:

    http://pastebin.com/YrBBBKvz

    You will notice, that when Hugsim first told me to drop the subject, I did. Now, the issue that I was trying to bring up was my asking Hannah a question.  I simply wanted to know what Hannah thought of my comment in the Ratification discussion thread, and if she agreed or disagreed.  For reference, the post in question is here:

    http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=3447.msg67715#msg67715

    After Hugsim asked met to drop it, I spoke to him over query on the matter, which I am pointing out here:

    http://pastebin.com/pVZC8nWA

    Therefore, I waited  that day and carried on other business.  On Saturday morning, when I asked to speak to Hannah, she was willing to talk. No one on Saturday explicitly asked me to drop the matter. Wintermoot even advised in the beginning of the conversation on Saturday to tell others to have me drop it if needed.   However, no one did. I would have only violated my probation if someone told me and I ignored it, but that is not the case.  She admitted to overreacting.  Others in the thread also were antagonising (like Evelynx) when Hannah refused to speak, which also exacerbated the problem.  No one asked me to drop it.  AOE nevertheless claimed I violated probation :(

    I do not understand why there was no answer to my post when people are aware I do well with direct, assertive communication.  Hannah and Pengu answered everyone else's questions in the topic and elsewhere; it is rude to cherry-pick and ignore questions of mine while others are being answered. Members of government should be accountable for answering questions when asked instead of avoiding other citizens.

    When this OA discussion first started, emotions were running high, which prompted me to make a post outlining how emotional the citizenry were in their decision-making. This was also after the fact I was dealing with family concerns, and when I was venting it out about my issues, I only got a personal swipe made at me about my father.  Had anyone else vented about their family issues, people would quickly jump to provide support.  My reputation is not an excuse to joke about me or my family.

    After the ban happened, I spoke with Hugsim afterwards about it briefly, with a possible proposal here:

    http://pastebin.com/scarYAhj

    I have suggested to Hugsim about a possible mediation effort to move forward in resolving my personal issues with Hannah, and separately with Pengu. 

    That aside, I am appealing this ban because I was not at all in violation of probation.  I dropped the matter when I was told.  I asked if I could bring it up again later, and got permission.  I asked Hannah if we can talk and she said OK.  I got permission before proceeding to do anything about the OA issue on Saturday. 

    While I may have been persistent in wanting my question answered, and I apologise for my persistence, I was not attempting to pester anyone.  Simply asking for if someone agreed with a post and/or if they'd give support to it is nothing harmful, but refusing to answer it and blatantly ignoring it is rude while expecting business as usual to proceed.   If someone asks me a question about something, I do my best to respond to them in a reasonable manner, and I expect the same with others, just as people hold me to those standards. 

    I believe this ban was done in haste and with emotions running high, and contrary to the claim made by AOE, I did not violate my probation at all, nor "consistently".  I am requesting this ban please be lifted and I be allowed to be returned back to the channel as soon as possible.
    Democratic Republic of South Nivogal
    Citizenship Granted 24 Dec. 2013!

    ------------------------------------------------
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    Govindia
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    Arenado
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  • That's right, Gov, not an Iota of fault lies with you.
    5 people like this post: Michi, Emoticonius, Joshua Bluteisen, Hugsim, Crushita
    I Hope You Have A Nice Day :]
    Arenado
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    Wintermoot
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  • Greetings. Because there is no senior chat op at this time, I will be considering your first-level appeal. I will attempt to respond within the next day, hopefully later tonight. At this point I ask that only members of the chat ops team and Govindia post in this topic.


    I went all the way to Cassadega to commune with the dead
    They said "You'd better look alive"
    Wintermoot
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    Wintermoot
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  • Your first level appeal is denied.

    As you know, there were several provisions to your probation, namely that you would not contact HannahB via any private means, that you would drop any topic when asked to by an op, and that you cease discussion with anyone that made it clear they did not wish to speak to you. By your own admission in this appeal and by a look at the evidence you presented, HannahB refused to speak. She didn't ignore you, she directly told you that she would not discuss that particular topic with you. Hannah, and everyone else, has a perfect right to decline to speak if they want to...that's a part of freedom of speech. You do not have the right to pester her to do as you want by repeatedly asking and demanding as you did so in the log.

    Quote
    10:10:41 <@HannahB> Forum stuff is for the forum =p there are loads of posts on there, I can't respond to every single one
    That was Hannah's polite refusal to discuss the topic for you...your response was to continue to pester her, by repeatedly trying to bring it up to her (and Pengu as well, who obviously didn't want to discuss it with you either) for the next 50 minutes, at times even shouting demands in the channel that you be answered, attacking at least one other person in the process for taking up for them, before Hugsim intervened and demanded that you drop it. However, the next day you continued again over the same topic:

    Quote
    10:02:16 <@HannahB> I told you in the morning why I wasn't commenting on your forum post >:( and then though out the entire day you persisted in asking me and everyone else about it, in-fact you made a large scene about it. You were acting like a child in the way you were demanding I respond especially about your post as if it was somehow above all the other 10s of posts made. I may have over reacted but it was you who pushed and pushed and pushed the same god damn point
    10:02:39 <@HannahB> And that is exactly the behaviour, in what your probation was meant to prohibit
    Even if Hugsim said you could bring it back up again later, Hannah's words here should have been the absolute end of the discussion, as she has made it bluntly clear that she would not answer you, but you continued on nonetheless, getting this even more blunt answer when you asked if you could PM her on the forums about it:

    Quote
    10:13:42 <@HannahB> And if you PM me Gov I will not respond, at this point something this trivial that has been taken this far, does not warrant a response
    At which point you demand that she "and others stop being passive aggressive" and even demanded an apology because apparently not doing as you want puts her "in the wrong". In spite of her stating 20 minutes before she would not answer, you still continue to pester and demand that she do so, and then to apologize.

    Quote
    10:18:10 <+Govindia> I would like you to answer my question please HannahB instead of rudely ignoring me.  If others ask you it you would happily answer.

    Quote
    10:21:53 <@HannahB> Why persist even after I have blatantly explained that I will not answer
    Good question.

    Throughout the discussion on the second day, Hannah made it very clear multiple times that she would not discuss the topic with you, and your response was not only to pester her on a level that goes far into harassment, but to attack her and others in the process. Hannah has a perfect right to not want to talk about something...you do not have the right to demand she do so anyways. That is harassment, and also a violation of your probation.

    Based on your appeal and the evidence that you provided, I judge that axis_of_evil's ban was appropriate. If you would like to launch a final appeal, you may indicate so here, at which point the entire ops team would consider your appeal, discuss, and come to a decision.
    4 people like this post: Laurentus, Drexyl Nox, Michi, Chanku
    « Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 12:28:30 AM by Wintermoot »


    I went all the way to Cassadega to commune with the dead
    They said "You'd better look alive"
    Wintermoot
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