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So if we provided a lot more opportunities for advancement, through more productive, fun and less political means, people might be more at ease?

Sounds about right, but one has to keep in mind that Wintreath only has about 300 NS nations and 100 citizens, so not everyone can readily advance for fear of becoming oversaturated. At what point oversaturation occurs, however, is most likely up to either the Storting or other prominent members of the region.

I just feel like a direct democracy, despite The Overhusen still being there, would give subversive groups more leeway than I am comfortable with them having. That's why I suggested it be something citizens can apply for. I know what you're thinking, "Ugh...more bureaucracy!" but I feel it certainly isn't needless. It could actually serve a purpose. Besides, I find it to be a good middle ground between direct democracy and the long process of electing legislators.

I do have to agree with taulover in a way. I mean the UH is the most obvious way to advance in the region, with most of my advancement in the region being directly because of the UH. If it weren't for the UH I probably would have quit, because it was boring, the UH brings something to bring me into and keep me here and got me used to the culture.

While my main things are the laws I have created, it allowed me to get a foot in the region and establish a name for myself. From there I felt like I could try out other parts of the region. The UH itself is not necessarily useless, as it has a use, albeit unintended in where it helps people get a foot in the region, especially if they are more politically minded. The UH is essentially where I live, it is one of the greatest parts of Wintreath in my opinion. It is that because of the fact that it not only gives Wintreath additional reach within NationStates, but it also provides an obvious way for newcomers to get into the region. I feel that getting rid of the UH in it's current form would only take something away from the region. It allows new people to get a taste for the region, provides an easy way to get involved, and allows for people to move on. It makes new people feel as if they can get their ideas out there easily and makes them feel like they have power, the title is something special as well. With the title only four to seven other people will ever hold that title, the title of being a member of any given Underhusen. Only one person, with the current rules, will ever hold the title of Speaker. To a new person these can mean a lot because they have some power and it makes them feel like they are advancing in the region.

In the end for me the Underhusen is a unique part of Wintreath, that allows for Wintreath to have a greater reach within NationStates. It is a way for new people to easily see how to get involved and is probably the easiest part of the region to get into. It gives the new person a sense of power, a sense of responsibility, a sense of uniqueness, a sense of movement in the region. The Underhusen is also my home, so while I do have my own wishes to protect it, I fully enjoy and love our current system, although I should note that it could be worked on and I would support fixing it a bit so it works better, but I fully support the existence of the Underhusen in it's current state. It provides something to people that they don't get in any other part of the region at this time, and it's something that has been overlooked by everyone else, it seems. The Underhusen is important, and it is useful, just not for what was initially intended, but this happens.

At least, that is my take on this.

As I understand it, the core issue that has been voiced is that there's little of importance for the Underhusen or any legislative body to do. There's been a lot of talk of what system we should use, but so far I haven't seen much discussion of how a legislature in any form can overcome this issue. In fairness, I'm sure there are things a legislature could do...other regions that are older than us still have active legislatures, but it's undeniable that there aren't as many major legislative opportunities as there were in the past. The major systems and laws are in place, and it's not like the Storting can do many of the things that keep real life legislatures active such as adopting a budget or determining social law (although earlier in the season I posted about maybe having an assembly RP where such things could be RP-done).

We're not doing people any favours by asking people to be seat warmers in a body with no purpose, no matter how fancy the title that comes with it may be. Any such 'advancement' is fake, shallow, and undeserved. Real advancement takes many forms...it doesn't always have to take the form of a promotion of some kind, but it comes when people that have worked hard to make the region a better place receive the recognition that they deserve. Is it possible for give the legislature a purpose so that it can be considered real advancement to be placed on it? Maybe, maybe not, but for those that want to maintain an active legislature, whether altered or not from the one we have t day, I urge you to attempt to resolve that problem. A reformed legislature isn't going to do much good if it still has little to nothing to do...it needs a real purpose to make it an active part of the region.

What sort of things can a legislature in our region do?

I'm of the opinion that, since we already have our basic laws, there just isn't all that much that we actually NEED to do anymore. Sure, we can continue to make new laws, for the sake of making new laws, for the sake of keeping the legislature alive, but it seems we've grown quite tired of it.

What Reon proposed sounds good to me, because it gives the citizenry direct access to their fundamental rights, but leaves all the other laws that actually mean something (the treaties, for instance) up to the Monarchy, as advised by the Overhusen and Riksråd. Although to be honest, it would be strange to have the OH survive just to have it just mostly lounge around and wait for something to do (which is currently happening, anyway).

So what I'm essentially saying is that maybe our regional culture was just never meant for the type of legislatures we find in other regions. I think a basic, minimalistic one would work best here.

Also, could I talk about the guilds? Because it's difficult to address the advancement issue without talking about that.

I was thinking the same thing, Laurentus.  Guilds provide a method of advancement and recognition in a way that's actually productive and that the citizen can define for themselves (mostly).

We can amend the constitution without calling for a convention.

We can reform the Underhusen through legislation without needing a convention.

it is a bit much.

You're asking a legislative body to shrink itself. Legislative bodies pass more legislature, not erase some. It's impossible for the Storting to shrink itself. Therefore, the people must do it for them.

I still think it is unnecessary to get rid of The Storting. If we expand it, the likelihood of more legislation being proposed, more discussion being had and therefore more forum activity, is greater.

Why would that be? Just look at the drought of topics in the Citizen's Platform. Even there, the most active topic this term has been the destruction/restucturing/repurposing of the Underhusen/Storting.

I believe with the citizenry able to take a more active role in the legislature, that might change.

Well, how would you get past the fact there just isn't much left to do?

I believe with the citizenry able to take a more active role in the legislature, that might change.

But when there's been no legislation to become an active role for, it becomes a moot point.

If the Platform was far more active now with proposals and ideas for topics led by the citizens, then I'd agree with you.

But when not only the UH, but the platform itself has become quiet--filled only with Chanku's proposals since October 1st and the discussion between even those being fairly quiet--then it becomes a problem that even expanding the UH to include everyone isn't going to solve.

Again, if the Platform was popping with activity, then I'd agree that expanding things a bit and giving citizens a more active role would be a good idea.  However, seeing as how the Platform has been quite dead for the most part shows me that the citizens, for the most part, simply don't even care about politics.  So why expand when people aren't even interested enough anymore to engage in the platform?

Really, disbanding it would seem like the most logical idea at this point.

I believe with the citizenry able to take a more active role in the legislature, that might change.

But when there's been no legislation to become an active role for, it becomes a moot point.

If the Platform was far more active now with proposals and ideas for topics led by the citizens, then I'd agree with you.

But when not only the UH, but the platform itself has become quiet--filled only with Chanku's proposals since October 1st and the discussion between even those being fairly quiet--then it becomes a problem that even expanding the UH to include everyone isn't going to solve.

Again, if the Platform was popping with activity, then I'd agree that expanding things a bit and giving citizens a more active role would be a good idea.  However, seeing as how the Platform has been quite dead for the most part shows me that the citizens, for the most part, simply don't even care about politics.  So why expand when people aren't even interested enough anymore to engage in the platform?

Really, disbanding it would seem like the most logical idea at this point.

When the UH is being quiet, then you need to wake up the Skrifa, or recall all of the inactive ones.

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