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Crushita has brought up an interesting point as well.

Also keep in mind that when it comes to Wintreath we are not supposed to be a very political region, so the lack of interest in politics is not surprising at all.

Crushita has brought up an interesting point as well.

Also keep in mind that when it comes to Wintreath we are not supposed to be a very political region, so the lack of interest in politics is not surprising at all.

I might as well continue this train of thought then. My best idea would be to make the Underhusen an open legislature, and have the Overhusen be appointed, so anybody can propose a bill, and experienced people can scrutinize it for any flaws.

And while I'm thinking of it, perhaps, if we want to keep elections, make Thanes elected and Jarls appointed. Just an afterthought.

Thanes are meant as the assistants to Jarls. As such they are usually selected and appointed by said Jarl. However honestly we don't really need to change anything to make the Underhusen open, elections would be more meaningless, but it's legally allowed.

Crushita has brought up an interesting point as well.

Also keep in mind that when it comes to Wintreath we are not supposed to be a very political region, so the lack of interest in politics is not surprising at all.

I might as well continue this train of thought then. My best idea would be to make the Underhusen an open legislature, and have the Overhusen be appointed, so anybody can propose a bill, and experienced people can scrutinize it for any flaws.

And while I'm thinking of it, perhaps, if we want to keep elections, make Thanes elected and Jarls appointed. Just an afterthought.

Why should thanes be elected?

Currently, a thane is basically a lower Jarl, and also is only appointed by a Jarl. Each Jarl is only appointed by the Monarch. Changing that would be a move away from Monarchy.

But I enjoy your other idea.

Crushita has brought up an interesting point as well.

Also keep in mind that when it comes to Wintreath we are not supposed to be a very political region, so the lack of interest in politics is not surprising at all.

I might as well continue this train of thought then. My best idea would be to make the Underhusen an open legislature, and have the Overhusen be appointed, so anybody can propose a bill, and experienced people can scrutinize it for any flaws.

And while I'm thinking of it, perhaps, if we want to keep elections, make Thanes elected and Jarls appointed. Just an afterthought.

Why should thanes be elected?

Currently, a thane is basically a lower Jarl, and also is only appointed by a Jarl. Each Jarl is only appointed by the Monarch. Changing that would be a move away from Monarchy.

But I enjoy your other idea.

Its so new people can still get a chance in government, with an open Underhusen, there are less ways for interested new members to get into government, and neither the Monarch or the Jarls are psychic. This allows people to be introduced to the Wintreath political system, and they have their Jarl to help show them the ropes, a sort of Apprentice-Master relationship if you will. Perhaps a Jarl could choose whether he wants to appoint his own, or allow his Thane to be elected.

On this, I'd say I agree with Chanku. We could have an elected Underhusen which just doesn't pass laws anymore, and instead defines itself as an advisory and occasional judiciary panel.

I mean it's technically allowed. However personally I don't see a reason for it.

I look at it the same way I look at the US' Government system, though it does have its differences:

The Riksrad is essentially like the president's Cabinet.  We personally don't get to choose who is a part of that (as I recall), and they're appointed directly by the president.  While I can't say for sure, I imagine each of those cabinet members have assistants that they hire to get shit done.  The cabinet members normally get all the credit for decisions and effort in their field...but the assistants play a monumental role as well, even though they weren't chosen by anyone outside of that cabinet member and most likely given the okay by the president.

The Underhusen is essentially the House of Representatives, with each member being elected by a majority of the people.  Virtually anyone that meets the requirements/qualifications can run for HoR, so in that sense it's a pretty open and large assembly that represents the people.

The Overhusen is basically the Senate, with those who meet the requirements being appointed by either the state legislature or referendum.

The difference between the US system and ours is that we have absolutely no requirements for anything.  Wintermoot appoints who he chooses for the Overhusen, and there are no pre-existing requirements for him to choose people.  If he thinks you're a good choice, he may appoint you.

Likewise, anyone anywhere in this region can run for the UH.  You don't have to be here a certain amount of time, have a set number of posts, or anything of the like.  A member could virtually join the day elections begin and run for a seat...and I believe it's actually happened before.

On that note, I don't think that part needs to change anytime soon.  However, I wouldn't be completely against consecutive term limits, extending the term a smidge, and/or opening up the seats a bit.  However, the third presents a problem if we extend the default seats.  What if there aren't enough people running to take the extra seats?

I also disagree with banning anyone from running.  Even if we're Riksrad, we're still citizens, so disallowing any citizens to run is a disservice to the region because it restricts freedoms.  I was appointed to the acting position almost a year ago (I believe my one year will be coming up in November/December).  So I should never be allowed to run for Underhusen whatsoever unless I decide to step down from being Jarl of Culture?  What about the member that takes my place? 

The same goes for Royal family members.  The only member at the moment is Chanku (I don't count Wintermoot since he doesn't even try to run for UH...though I think legally he could if he chose to).  If there were a large list of Royal family members and they all did follow the monarch's way of thinking to a tee, then I might agree.  However, we only have one, and he's far from the agreeing type with Wintermoot as has been stated several times.

I have more, but I'll wait.

The monarch is legally barred from being within the Underhusen actually Pengu.

As I said, I don't count him anyways.   

Can we repurpose/destroy the UH now? That would be great.

I don't think it's the people who have been elected, I think the UH has just kinda run out of shit to do that has any point, and consequently we're seeing this total inactivity, despite having people like Reon and HannahB in there.

We could keep the UH intact as a ceremonial role or something, and pass laws through direct democracy.

Of course we would need to tweak our systems somewhat, but I honestly don't see how that would be worse than what's happening now, or what's been happening for the last, oh, 3 terms?

Almost a year now...
Law here is pointless, truly... Most of what the Underhusen does is pass law for its own running so...
Alright we could... Make a system in which citizens propose laws, they move through the underhusen and get passed by direct democratic vote... (Citizens could referendum to move around the overhusen through some type of signature rule)
We could abolish all law and move into an absolute monarchy...
Or we could abolish everything save a bill of citizens rights and move into an otherwise absolute monarchy...
Or some other option I haven't thought of...

I would like to note though that I am and have always been a little bit inactive so the assertion that it should be active because of me is a strange one...

If I could, I would lead the way on what the Underhusen can do...but, you know, it's about the only area of government that I can't lead the way on.

But there is a lot it can do...it can issue commendations as well as any non-binding resolution, create holidays, declare individuals PnG, revoke Citizenships, alter the code of laws and conditions of Citizenship, and of course it's required to approve treaties. That's just off the top of my head.

I would like to note though that I am and have always been a little bit inactive so the assertion that it should be active because of me is a strange one...

You were quite active when we served together in April and May. That's the only thing I was basing my assumption on. If you say you've always been a bit inactive, then I withdraw my statement.

If I could, I would lead the way on what the Underhusen can do...but, you know, it's about the only area of government that I can't lead the way on.

But there is a lot it can do...it can issue commendations as well as any non-binding resolution, create holidays, declare individuals PnG, revoke Citizenships, alter the code of laws and conditions of Citizenship, and of course it's required to approve treaties. That's just off the top of my head.

So what you're saying is that I should just lower my expectation of how active it should be?