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Proposal: The Judicial Reform Amendment Act
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Wintermoot
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  • I thought now would be a good time to restart our discussion on the judiciary. I've given the matter a lot of thought, and to be honest I don't believe that there needs to be many changes to our current system. We just need to close loopholes, provide for better oversight, and perhaps loosen some of the constraints on the power of the Founder. This would take several laws and amendments, but in case this is something that people can get on board with I wanted to take a crack at crafting a Constitutional amendment to start the process:

    Quote from: Third Draft
    The Judicial Reform Amendment Act

    Title
    1) This Act shall be cited as the Judicial Reform Amendment Act.

    Provisions
    2) Article I Section 17 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    17. The Storting shall have the authority to create and revise the rules of judicial proceedings for judicial panels.

    3) Article III Section 1 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    1. Upon the filing and acceptance of cases within the Storting, the Monarch shall select at random a Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen who are not parties to the case and is not the Monarch to serve as judges in a judicial panel. The Peer shall serve as Chief Judge, and the Skrifa shall serve as Associate Judges.

    4) The following shall be added as Article III Section 3:
    Quote
    3. Rulings may be appealed to the Monarch, who shall decide to vacate, modify, or uphold the ruling of the judicial panel. The Monarch shall have the authority to define procedures and rules for hearing and deciding upon appeals, as well as to delegate these authorities to other officials or offices.

    5) The following shall be added as Article III Section 4:
    Quote
    4. Any revocation of Citizenship as a result of a sentence which is conferred or upheld by the Monarch may be overturned by an Act of the Storting if the person whose Citizenship is being revoked requests that it consider doing so within 7 days of the appeal ruling. In the event a revocation is overturned, the initial judicial panel shall determine an alternative sentence. The Storting shall have the authority to define procedures and rules for requesting a sentence of revocation be overturned.

    6) Article VI Section 4 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    4. The Winter Nomad and all subordinate administrative officials shall be responsible for protecting Wintreath properties from any content which is illegal or otherwise, violates the terms of service of the provider of the Wintreath property, or otherwise brings harm to the region or community. Actions taken under this responsibility shall supersede the Declaration of Rights.

    The first sections close the loophole that allowed cases to be ignored by the Storting, which has been a problem in the past and I think one of the reasons why the court system has such a bad reputation in spite of not being used. Under the amendment the judicial panel would be created upon filing of the case, and the panel itself can determine if the case has any merit or not. Not only should this close the loophole, but it should also make the judicial process somewhat less bureaucratic and political.

    The second and third sections create an appeals process...appeals would go to the Monarch, which I think provides the oversight that some people have wanted in an alternate judicial system. Any ruling that included a sentence of Citizenship revocation could also be appealed to the Storting in line with the Declaration of Rights, but the Storting would only be empowered to appeal the revocation, not the verdict or any other punishment.

    The final section removes some of the constraints on the Founder and the Founder's subordinates in taking action, which would allow them to summarily enforce things such as warnings and temp bans like the chat ops do on the IRC. I feel this is important to have because there are many cases that would benefit from quick action, either leading up to a court case or in cases where a court case may not be appropriate.

    In any case, this is my second shot at this...I would be happy to hear any thoughts or suggestions. :)

    Version 1
    Title
    1) This Act shall be cited as the Judicial Reform Amendment Act.

    Provisions
    2) Article I Section 17 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    17. The Storting shall have the authority to create and revise the rules of judicial proceedings for judicial panels.

    3) Article III Section 1 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    1. Upon the filing and acceptance of cases within the Storting, the Monarch shall select at random a Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen who are not parties to the case to serve as judges in a judicial panel. The Peer shall serve as Chief Judge, and the Skrifa shall serve as Associate Judges.

    4) The following shall be added as Article III Section 3:
    Quote
    3. Rulings may be appealed to the Monarch, who shall have the authority to vacate, modify, or uphold the ruling of the judicial panel. The Monarch shall have the authority to define procedures and rules for hearing and deciding upon appeals, as well as to delegate these authorities to other officials or offices.

    5) The following shall be added as Article III Section 4:
    Quote
    4. Any sentence resulting in revocation of Citizenship which is conferred or upheld by the Monarch may be appealed to the Storting, which shall only have the authority to consider the appeal of the revocation. In the event that the appeal is successful, the case shall return to the initial judicial panel, which shall only have the authority to modify the sentence.

    6) Article VI Section 4 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    4. The Winter Nomad and all subordinate administrative officials shall be responsible for protecting Wintreath properties from any content which is illegal or otherwise, violates the terms of service of the provider of the Wintreath property, or otherwise brings harm to the region or community. Actions taken under this responsibility shall supersede the Declaration of Rights.
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    Version 2
    The Judicial Reform Amendment Act

    Title
    1) This Act shall be cited as the Judicial Reform Amendment Act.

    Provisions
    2) Article I Section 17 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    17. The Storting shall have the authority to create and revise the rules of judicial proceedings for judicial panels.

    3) Article III Section 1 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    1. Upon the filing and acceptance of cases within the Storting, the Monarch shall select at random a Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen who are not parties to the case to serve as judges in a judicial panel. The Peer shall serve as Chief Judge, and the Skrifa shall serve as Associate Judges.

    4) The following shall be added as Article III Section 3:
    Quote
    3. Rulings may be appealed to the Monarch, who shall decide to vacate, modify, or uphold the ruling of the judicial panel. The Monarch shall have the authority to define procedures and rules for hearing and deciding upon appeals, as well as to delegate these authorities to other officials or offices.

    5) The following shall be added as Article III Section 4:
    Quote
    4. Any revocation of Citizenship as a result of a sentence which is conferred or upheld by the Monarch may be overturned by an Act of the Storting if the person whose Citizenship is being revoked requests that it consider doing so within 7 days of the appeal ruling. In the event a revocation is overturned, the initial judicial panel shall determine an alternative sentence. The Storting shall have the authority to define procedures and rules for requesting a sentence of revocation be overturned.

    6) Article VI Section 4 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    4. The Winter Nomad and all subordinate administrative officials shall be responsible for protecting Wintreath properties from any content which is illegal or otherwise, violates the terms of service of the provider of the Wintreath property, or otherwise brings harm to the region or community. Actions taken under this responsibility shall supersede the Declaration of Rights.
    2 people like this post: Govindia, Emoticonius
    « Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 03:59:17 AM by Wintermoot »


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  • Wintermoot two things:
    1) Your drafted law setup is a bit horrid
    2) STOP PUTTING THE FUCKING TITLE AT THE TOP OF THE LAW, IT'S UNNECESSARY.

    Judicial Reform Amendment Act
    Quote
    Title
    1. This Act shall be cited as the Judicial Reform Amendment Act.

    Amendment
    2. Article I Section 17 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    17. The Storting shall have the authority to create and revise the rules of judicial proceedings for judicial panels.

    3. Article III Section 1 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    1. Upon the filing and acceptance of cases within the Storting, the Monarch shall select at random a Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen to serve as judges in a judicial panel. The Peer shall serve as Chief Judge, and the Skrifa shall serve as Associate Judges.

    4. The following shall be added as Article III Section 3:
    Quote
    3. Rulings may be appealed to the Monarch, who shall have the authority to vacate, modify, or uphold the ruling of the judicial panel. The Monarch shall have the authority to define procedures and rules for hearing and deciding upon appeals, as well as to delegate these authorities to other officials or offices.

    5. The following shall be added as Article III Section 4:
    Quote
    4. Any sentence resulting in revocation of Citizenship which is conferred or upheld by the Monarch may be appealed to the Storting, which shall only have the authority to consider the appeal of the revocation. In the event that the appeal is successful, the case shall return to the initial judicial panel, which shall only have the authority to modify the sentence.

    6. Article VI Section 4 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    4. The Winter Nomad and all subordinate administrative officials shall be responsible for protecting Wintreath properties from any content which is illegal or otherwise, violates the terms of service of the provider of the Wintreath property, or otherwise brings harm to the region or community. Actions taken under this responsibility shall supersede the Declaration of Rights.
    That's how it should look.

    Also Wintermoot, personally I find this somewhat idiotic. We do not need to really do any amendments to the fundamental laws at this time. We need to get our current system working. Also, the fact that the Storting can ignore cases is both a bug, and a feature. Further this makes the Judicial System the most fucking entangled, which violates the premise that all portions of the government should be able to go about it's own duties.
    See you later space cowboy.
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  • I would have thought you'd stop calling people's ideas idiotic after you did so with the regional Q&A, which turned out to be one of the most appreciated FA initiatives in our history.

    Obviously, I fundamentally disagree. Seeing as there have been no instances of judicial abuse, I don't believe that it's unreasonable to expect all cases to be considered...it was never intended for cases to be ignored to begin with, and I don't think it's fair to Citizens to not even get a response to their perceived grievances. Additionally, many Citizens have expressed a desire for more oversight from the Monarchy over the judicial system, and I feel that the proposed system does that by adding an appeals process while maintaining the original system which you wish to improve. You could say that this isn't even a change, but more of an addition.

    Finally, I believe your interpretation of our system of government is a bit flawed...in most cases, yes, each branch of government should be able to go about its own duties...however, some decisions require the consent of both branches, such as the adoption of treaties or the decision to revoke a Citizenship. Consensus among-st the branches is a secondary premise behind the government, especially for decisions of vital importance.
    1 person likes this post: Emoticonius


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    I would have thought you'd stop calling people's ideas idiotic after you did so with the regional Q&A, which turned out to be one of the most appreciated FA initiatives in our history.
    One instance wintermoot :P

    Quote
    Obviously, I fundamentally disagree. Seeing as there have been no instances of judicial abuse, I don't believe that it's unreasonable to expect all cases to be considered...it was never intended for cases to be ignored to begin with, and I don't think it's fair to Citizens to not even get a response to their perceived grievances.
    But what if there is abuse in the future? Just because there is a lack of abuse now, doesn't mean that it won't happen afterwards.

    Quote
    Additionally, many Citizens have expressed a desire for more oversight from the Monarchy over the judicial system, and I feel that the proposed system does that by adding an appeals process while maintaining the original system which you wish to improve. You could say that this isn't even a change, but more of an addition.
    I've only seen 3 or 4 want more Monarchical oversight, which is far from the majority Wintermoot. Further I fail to see how given the monarch more oversight, into an area that the Monarch should not have, is a good idea.

    Quote
    Finally, I believe your interpretation of our system of government is a bit flawed...in most cases, yes, each branch of government should be able to go about its own duties...however, some decisions require the consent of both branches, such as the adoption of treaties or the decision to revoke a Citizenship. Consensus among-st the branches is a secondary premise behind the government, especially for decisions of vital importance.
    True, however I feel this will needlessly complicate our current system, and all of this can be accomplished without having to amend the fundamental laws, aside from giving the Adminstration more room to control Wintreath and thus removing a bit more power from the Government itself.
    « Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 07:53:41 PM by Wintermoot »
    See you later space cowboy.
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  • Quote
    One instance wintermoot :P
    One instance should have been enough. It's never good to belittle people's ideas. :P

    Quote
    But what if there is abuse in the future? Just because there is a lack of abuse now, doesn't mean that it won't happen afterwards.
    There are a billion potential what-ifs out there, and given the past two years it's fairly unlikely that this is going to be a major problem going forward. We don't have a very political or judicial culture, and I don't foresee that being a big problem. Even if it is, it would be easy to make a law against judicial abuse, which would possibly be more effective than simply ignoring cases.

    Quote
    I've only seen 3 or 4 want more Monarchical oversight, which is far from the majority Wintermoot. Further I fail to see how given the monarch more oversight, into an area that the Monarch should not have, is a good idea.
    There hasn't been a majority on any idea for judicial reform in over a year, including on your own proposals to work with the existing system. It's possible that this proposal will fail like so many others have in the past, but I believe that it's still worthwhile to suggest something different. I wouldn't have taken the time to write the legislation if I didn't feel that it was an idea worth proposing.
     
    Quote
    True, however I feel this will needlessly complicate our current system, and all of this can be accomplished without having to amend the fundamental laws, aside from giving the Adminstration more room to control Wintreath and thus removing a bit more power from the Government itself.
    I don't believe that it would be that much more complicated than the current system, since we're just adding onto that. Again, many of our Citizens have supported a system that gives more authority to the Monarch and/or Founder, and this legislation was written with their opinions in mind.

    Additionally, we have faced issues where the government and community don't feel they have the authority to deal with some disputes and transgression that get out of hand, which in part led to the revocation attempt against Govindia. By providing more ad hoc authority to the Founder, we could begin to moderate the forums like we do the IRC and issue summary punishments such as warnings and temp bans as a compliment to the punishments a court system can render (revocation, loss of positions, community service, etc).

    It's possible...even likely...that this proposal will fail, but after seeing multiple attempts to reform the current system fail in the Storting, I feel that it's time to investigate other alternatives, and based on what I've heard I feel that this is the best possible alternative after giving the matter a lot of thought over the past few days, which is why I'm making the proposal.


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    Laurentus
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  • What in the hell is going on here? Where are these quotes from, and why do @Wintermoot and Chanku have the exact same posts?

    EDIT: Nevermind, I now see that Chanku's post has been edited by Wintermoot. But why the exact same text? Why not just say something like *original text is up for moderation*?
    « Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 08:06:35 PM by Laurentus »
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  • I accidentally hit modify instead of quote...it should be fixed though.


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  • Skrifa Chanku, you are a valued addition to the Underhusen, but I feel you should be reminded to tone down your language and overall attitude when discussing things in the Citizen's Platform.

    As a citizen-centric part of government, this behaviour cannot be tolerated in the Underhusen. Nothing constructive comes from it.
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  • Wintermoot, you already have that power to do so. Temp Bannings on the forum HAVE been used in the past while the Fundamental Laws existed.
    See you later space cowboy.
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  • Wintermoot, you already have that power to do so. Temp Bannings on the forum HAVE been used in the past while the Fundamental Laws existed.

    Can you note the past incidents as I'm not aware what has happened in Wintreath while I wasn't citizen.
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  • IIRC A temp Ban was done on Gov a while ago...IIRC it was issued in the Say what's on your mind thread.
    See you later space cowboy.
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  • Skrifa Chanku, you are a valued addition to the Underhusen, but I feel you should be reminded to tone down your language and overall attitude when discussing things in the Citizen's Platform.

    As a citizen-centric part of government, this behaviour cannot be tolerated in the Underhusen. Nothing constructive comes from it.

    Actually, on the level of being a Skrifa, Jarl, and a Prince...it's really highly inappropriate.  I understand differing opinions and everything, but there's more tactful/respectful and rational ways to go about it rather than belittling anyone's, let alone the Monarch's ideas in such a way.
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  • In any case, perhaps we should discuss the content of the proposal at this point. :P


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  • Could we elaborate on this section?

    Quote
    4. Any sentence resulting in revocation of Citizenship which is conferred or upheld by the Monarch may be appealed to the Storting, which shall only have the authority to consider the appeal of the revocation. In the event that the appeal is successful, the case shall return to the initial judicial panel, which shall only have the authority to modify the sentence.

    I'm not sure I understand how the Monarch gets involved, regarding the first sentence.  Does this mean that those who have citizenship revoked are entitled to two appeals?
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    Emoticonius
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  • I believe that would be the case. I know it seems a bit...bureaucratic, but in the spirit of fairness, giving The Storting another opportunity to keep The Monarch in check is nice.

    I actually do like Moot's proposal, especially Article 3, Section 3. I still feel the presiding justices shouldn't be determined by a bunch of "if's" & "but's". Not that it has anything to do with the proposed changes. Just one change I'd like to see happen.
    1 person likes this post: Michi
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