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A 19-year-old is seeing his life crumble in front of him, after innocently using a hook-up app to meet a girl online, like so many of his peers.

Zachary Anderson, of Elkhart, Indiana, used the app 'Hot or Not?' to meet a girl in nearby Niles, Michigan, who he had consensual sex with once after meeting in person in December.

However, the girl lied about her age to use the app, pretending she was 17 when she was really 14 years old.

Anywho I am kind-of pissed about this...

What are your thoughts and opinions?

Sources:
Raw Story
Digital News World
South Bend Tribune
Daily Mail
WSBT

He was an idiot and didn't verify her age. That's on him, and him alone; you have to cover your ass if you want to do anything in the world.

I have to respectfully disagree with Josh...at what point have you reasonably verified his partner's age? What if she produced a fake ID showing she was of age? Would he still be responsible? Why is it his fault when she's the one that lied, violating the ToS of a service in the process? If she's mentally impaired as her mother seems to imply, then why did she allow her to go off on the street with no clue of where she was going or doing? Aren't parents responsible for their minor children?

I remember reading about another story where a man legally married an underage girl with her parents' permission, only to be prosecuted for having sex with and impregnating his own wife. I remember another story about a 16yo boy that was prosecuted when it was learned he'd been exploring with his 14yo sister...unfortunately the laws in that state had no exception for such situations. And the list goes on. Maybe this guy was foolish, the thought of meeting a stranger for sex creeps me out, but he obviously had no intent to do anything illegal.

American statutory rape laws have been created out of fear and an appetite to pass popular laws to an uneducated public, not any sort of reason or logic. Most of them are created with the assumption that it's the creepy adult preying on the pure and innocent underaged minor, when obviously that isn't necessarily true...in many cases it's the teen that pursues a sexual relationship with the adult, and they aren't always above lying to do so. Unfortunately, exceptions for cases like that are either not thought of, or put in the hands of judges who may not wisely implement such authority. Who knows, maybe this judge was having a bad day and wanted to take it out on one of his cases. What's needed are laws that are better thought out, and are guided by reason instead of fearmongering.

As an aside, I'm curious what impact cases such as this will have on websites that offer these services...they're very prominent, especially in the gay community (grindr, Adam4Adam, Manhunt, etc), and I could imagine these services taking more obtrusive measures to ensure their users are of age, such as requiring credit card verification like porn sites do. The problem is, most people on these sites wants to remain fairly anonymous for other reasons...so it'll be interesting to see what happens in that scene as a response, if anything.

You simply don't have sex, especially using a hook-up site, with strangers and expect there to be no consequences. In his case, the consequences are pretty terrible, but I feel no sympathy.

Perhaps I take a harsher view of something like this, coming from a country where so many girls are abducted and sold as sex slaves, but I can reasonably see a reason for laws like these, that have nothing to do with fear-mongering. But I agree some exceptions should be made for some of the situations you're describing, since teenagers, particularly 16-year olds aren't yet wise to the consequences of their actions.

On the other hand, where is the line drawn? Everyone is made aware of the laws and receive sex education in schools, so there isn't really an excuse.

I would say many of the teenagers I've met are as responsible as most people in their 20s, but how will they be wise to the consequences of their actions when the law automatically places the blame on the other person? We're allowing them to be online on the same level as adults with little or no oversight, and I don't think it's unreasonable to hold them responsible for actions that lead to legal troubles. I think most of them can handle that responsibility, and those that can't shouldn't be on the internet to start with.

In this case, the girl lied to get on an adult website with the intention of meeting and hooking up with adults she didn't even know...if she had not done it with this guy, she probably would have with someone else. Her mother then, in addition to failing to oversee this to start with, allowed her to leave without answering the basic question of where she was going. What if instead of an innocent guy who took her for who she said she was it had been a rapist or an abductor? Her actions, and her mother's negligence, could have put her in serious danger, and for that alone they should be held responsible. The fact that the mother claims her daughter is mentally impaired as a defense maker her own negligence even worse.

We want to talk about the consequences of his actions, but were there any consequences to their actions? Maybe she got grounded for a week or something, lol. The court should have ruled that she isn't allowed on the internet or to have a smartphone.

I have to agree with Moot on this one. It really burns me up when the justice system initially presumes the minor is innocent, despite when facts prove otherwise. If anything, it is both the girl's and her parents fault. She shouldn't have lied or used the app in the first place and her parents should do what they're supposed to do, mainly, watching their daughter. One can always be suspicious, but how does one prove the other's age before it's too late? When adults use such apps, it is reasonable to assume the people they meet will be of legal age considering one is required to be a certain age in order to use the service. I definitely sympathize with Zachary Anderson as he is the victim in this heinous crime.

He is most certainly not a victim, but neither is he a perpetrator. What he is, is an idiot. He knew the law, he knew the risks involved with internet hook-ups, and he went ahead with it anyway.

If the reports are as riddled with inaccuracies as the articles claim, then he should stand a good chance of appealing the harshest elements of the judge's decision. Especially since the mother appears to have wanted the charges withdrawn.

I can't sympathise with him simply for the fact that he acted irresponsibly.

Laurentus the thing is though, is that while what he did was somewhat reckless, when you use an app designed for meeting people to fuck you have a reasonable assumption that the person is, in fact, of legal age. An average person in the US probably wouldn't think twice about checking it prior to this, due to the fact that this hasn't really been reported before (or at least as much as this) to my knowledge (and I might be incorrect). Now that it has been, more people will probably take precautions, however at what point can a person reasonably verify the person's age? A fake ID can be obtained, credit cards and the like can be stolen, and so on. So to be honest I have to side with Wintermoot and ChurchOfSatan here.

Edit: Also Laurentus, in the US generally the associated risks for most people with hooking up with someone online would be STDs or HIV, accidentally getting them pregnant, or having a boyfriend beat your fucking ass. There are, obviously, more risks that one might not think of as well. One being this and the other being falsly accused of rape (which can happen, albeit has never happened through anything like this, but is still a technically a risk). So I can't really fault the guy here.

There are more serious risks too...some people have used these services to lure gay men to their homes with the intention of inflicting harm on them or worse. Generally, it's never a good idea to meet up with someone on the internet unless you've spent an extended time talking to them and feel you know them well-enough, and it's never a good idea to have your first meeting at their place.

My problem specifically is that there are no precautions you could take against this...depending on how determined a teen is to have sex with an adult, they could make fake identification, steal credit cards, lie through months of conversations on end, take steps to look the part and under the law he would still be legally liable. Meeting through a hookup site has nothing to do with it either, other than she had to lie to access it...they could have met on a mainstream dating site, in real life, at church, and the same situation would still apply. I'm not saying she would go to such lengths, I obviously don't know her, but if someone were that determined there's little the other person could do unless they just slipped up, and I'm sure there are teens who have a thing for older people and would want to. Not every teen is as pure and innocent as the law implies.

Unless you're exclusively into dating old people (ironically), this is something that should concern just about everybody.

I'm a bit two sided on this one.

While I won't agree that this is by far the first instance where I've seen someone lie about their age on a dating app, that was normally reserved for older guys wanting to sound a bit younger.  I've ran into and even almost hooked up with someone who had stated he was in his mid 30s in his profile on a hookup site before, and then he admitted he was actually in his late 40s (he just looked surprisingly good for his age).

But I'll also admit I've seen this instance as well, though first message I've actually gotten in that instance is along the lines of "So, I'm not really 18, I'm actually 16, wanna come over?"  In which I very quickly reported that person (and the site never did remove him <.<).

So it's by far not uncommon for people to lie about their age in any instance.  But at the same time the burden of proof is also impossible on a hookup site, since they could falsify pictures or anything else that you ask them for.  The problem lies within the parents, as mentioned earlier, monitoring their kids.  If this girl's mother is implying that her child is mentally impaired, then why isn't she keeping a much closer monitor on what her kid is doing on the Internet?  Why would she even let it get to the point of a stranger meeting her young daughter?

And this isn't an episode of "To Catch a Predator" where the guy is willingly engaging with a minor and he's being caught.  This guy was completely in the dark because he actually thought he was meeting someone close to his age.  So I don't see why he has to have jail time for that.  It may be his fault for not outright asking for proof of her age...but I echo what I said above and what others said above regarding hookup sites.  The fault lies purely on the girl for engaging in it and lying about her age, the mother for not monitoring a daughter she is implying is mentally impaired, and the hookup sites for not having stronger methods to verify someone's age.

I'm a bit two sided on this one.

While I won't agree that this is by far the first instance where I've seen someone lie about their age on a dating app, that was normally reserved for older guys wanting to sound a bit younger.  I've ran into and even almost hooked up with someone who had stated he was in his mid 30s in his profile on a hookup site before, and then he admitted he was actually in his late 40s (he just looked surprisingly good for his age).

But I'll also admit I've seen this instance as well, though first message I've actually gotten in that instance is along the lines of "So, I'm not really 18, I'm actually 16, wanna come over?"  In which I very quickly reported that person (and the site never did remove him <.<).

So it's by far not uncommon for people to lie about their age in any instance.  But at the same time the burden of proof is also impossible on a hookup site, since they could falsify pictures or anything else that you ask them for.  The problem lies within the parents, as mentioned earlier, monitoring their kids.  If this girl's mother is implying that her child is mentally impaired, then why isn't she keeping a much closer monitor on what her kid is doing on the Internet?  Why would she even let it get to the point of a stranger meeting her young daughter?

And this isn't an episode of "To Catch a Predator" where the guy is willingly engaging with a minor and he's being caught.  This guy was completely in the dark because he actually thought he was meeting someone close to his age.  So I don't see why he has to have jail time for that.  It may be his fault for not outright asking for proof of her age...but I echo what I said above and what others said above regarding hookup sites.  The fault lies purely on the girl for engaging in it and lying about her age, the mother for not monitoring a daughter she is implying is mentally impaired, and the hookup sites for not having stronger methods to verify someone's age.

^ This

+1

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He's a computer science guy so he was basically banned from his major.

The judge didn't seem to be unbiased because he remarked that having sex with strangers was "totally inappropriate behaviour" which is 1) not particularly true, has been a thing for millenias and 2) irrelevant. It's not against the law and the judge sounds like he actually based his ruling upon the fact the guy went fishing for sex on the net. To me, it looks like yet another old man judge with an ax to grind who decided to take the law into his own hands and hand down a sentence not for the crime the guy was charged with, but for a circumstance he personally doesn't approve of.

But if you really don't want this to happen, there is only one thing to do : always ask for ID. I don't know American law but in Canada, after Osborne, the defendant must have taken all reasonable steps to ascertain a girl's age if he wants his defense of honest but mistaken belief to consent to pass, or there must be circumstances which oblong the need for these steps (presence on an adult site would be one IMO) (http://canlii.ca/t/fsxrt). But these circumstances are always up to interpretation by the court, and we saw what that results in. That means that ideally you have to ask for ID. It is the single most reasonable step you can take. You might as well go full corner store mode and ask for driver's license or passport only. Thankfully, it doesn't matter in Canada if it's fake or not, but I heard that in some US states you can ask for ID and still get jailed if it turns out it's fake.

Do you think about asking for ID before you fuck a girl? No, but you should, especially if you're close in age to jailbait, since you're more likely to meet them. It is one of many traps that await the uninitiated. They should replace sex ed classes by "sex law" classes, aka how to not have your life ruined by an impersonal system that rarely gives a shit. There are so many little things to keep in mind when you have sex, so many little things that seem so dumb but can make the situation do a 180 that I'm willing to bet most of us have, at one point or another, technically committed sexual assault. We're not in jail simply because our partners didn't know we raped them.

I once heard about a case where a couple had a fight, but after making up, the girl asked for a back massage. This is the way sex always started between them, so he went ahead and grabbed a boob, thinking she was trying to initiate make up sex. Turns out she wasn't, she called the cops and guy's in jail and in the sex offender's registry to boot. Ever grabbed a girl's tit (or a guy's cock) because you thought that's where it was going, but turns out it wasn't and the girl was mature enough to just tell you "no", upon which you dropped the boob like a hot potato? Doesn't matter, you fucking sex offender. You belong in jail.

You have only the rape hysterics to blame for this shit. Truth is that sexual relations are now so heavily monitored by the courts that to be really, really safe, you have to carry a stack of contracts around to get consent in writing. Pretty soon it'll be rape as soon as the complainant "feels" violated without any mens rea to the crime whatsoever. Some are already pushing for this. Intent? Who cares about this dumb shit! All men are rapists and have intent to rape from the get go! Teach men not to rape!

Your word alone doesn't cut it anymore and probably neither will paper, but at least nobody can accuse you of not trying.

Expect to see this overturned in appeal.

You're absolutely right about him having no mens rea. And just so people don't get the wrong idea here, I'm not saying the judge's decision was rational, I'm saying I don't feel sympathy for his situation, simply because of the irresponsibility of the act. It's not the same thing as thinking he's guilty, and indeed, I also pointed out that he should be able to successfully appeal the decision (if the articles are accurate).

But let's compare apples with apples. If you meet someone in real life (at a church, as per Wintermoot's example), you stand a much better chance of verifying someone's age since you can ask around, and thus also a much better chance of not doing anything reckless. Even given how unjust or poorly set up these particular laws seem, a reasonable person should be aware of the risks involved in this sort of thing, and also realise that in reality he can get in a shit-load of trouble even without any mens rea (Latin for criminal intent, or guilty mind, basically).

I dislike getting into debates of sexism, but I have to point out that although I agree men are being punished way too harshly these days, and indeed are getting fewer and fewer reasonable rights, we have to remain aware of some of the atrocities men have committed against women for centuries, the world over. Just or not, a reasonable man must realise the realities of the times we live in (particularly with the feminist movement) and be careful. If that means not falling into bed with every stranger you see, so be it.

You're absolutely right about him having no mens rea. And just so people don't get the wrong idea here, I'm not saying the judge's decision was rational, I'm saying I don't feel sympathy for his situation, simply because of the irresponsibility of the act. It's not the same thing as thinking he's guilty, and indeed, I also pointed out that he should be able to successfully appeal the decision (if the articles are accurate).

But you're talking something that if I had to guess, at least 1/4 people in the US do often.  It's especially prelevent in the gay culture where we have sites like Adam4Adam, Grindr, Hornet, and countless others specifically catered to hookups.  The first especially prides itself on being specifically that and nothing else.  While I'm not sure of what the straight or lesbian options are, I'm pretty sure there's a decent list of them as well.

But that's essentially the kind of culture that the US has when it comes to the sexual side.  Hookups are something that are almost expected for people to do before they settle down into a relationship, because that's just what the nation itself has turned into.  This is something more true for the people still in their 40s and below, than for older folks.

Normally the rules for a hookup site, however, are that you have to be 18 or over to even be on it.  Hell, many of them even have nude pictures for advertisements and live cam adverts (A4A for example).

Really, the only irresponsible thing this guy did was try to hook up with a girl over Hot or Not, which isn't a hookup site to begin with: it's a site where you can rate people's pictures and they rate yours.  It has absolutely nothing to do with actually building relationships or getting people to hookup with each other...so why he chose to look for some action on there is absolutely beyond me.  And I will say on something like that, he took a huge risk even attempting it.

If anyone even goes on that site, there's even a FAQs for parents link at the bottom of the page for the website...which should tell ANYONE right away that it's a site that will have underage people.  In fact, if someone were to read the faq a bit, they'd see this:

How old should my teen be to use the service?

You may only use and become a registered member of Hot or Not if you are 13 years old or over. If you are aware that your child, or any other child, under the age of 13 is accessing the service, please either use the Report Abuse option or Contact Us.

Meaning the girl didn't even have to lie about her age since she fit the age requirement, but she did it anyways.  And meaning that you may not want to try to hook up with someone on the site, because chances are they'll end up actually being a minor.

Is the girl at fault for lying about her age?  Sure.  Is the guy at fault for engaging in anything with someone he didn't know for sure on a site that ALLOWS underage people?  Most definitely.  Does he deserve jail time for jumping into something he didn't know about?  No, but there should be some sort of consequence.  It's one thing to be completely oblivious and it's from an adult hookup site.  It's another when it's a site that you should know allows minors.

So... you're argument is basically "everyone's doing it, so why not?"