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Atrocities committed against the LGBT community in Africa, and Science's attempts to correct the iss
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Laurentus
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  • http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/tackling-stigma-and-myths-around-sexuality

    Africa is this narrow-minded and barbaric with everything, really. As much as I complain about South Africa, we're definitely one of the better countries on the continent. Even if these beliefs are widespread here, too...
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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  • What an insanely broad report. Still, I don't see the situation improving for LGBTI Africans any time soon. It's troubling that a nation as fragile as Uganda focuses on locking up gays for life when their HDI is sub .50.
    PB
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    Wintermoot
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  • Africa in general is more religious, and it doesn't help when American evangelicals go over there to whip them up and egg them on against the LGBT community, then actively lobby for bills that such as the one in Uganda and worse. In many ways evangelicals have turned to Africa as they've lost the culture war here in America...in any case, we can't just blame them for what's going on.


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    Laurentus
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  • As bad as this sounds, the presence of the church and evangelicals has definitely improved Africa.

    Before, ritual murders (read: witchcraft), petty tribal disputes, and extremely barbaric laws that completely subjugated women were commonplace.

    I don't know how a place ever became quite as fucked up as Africa, really.

    Anyway, yeah, even in South Africa, transformation is going slow. For every step we take forward, we take 2 steps back. Some of our best minds are going into solving these issues, and we're feeling pretty hopeless at this point.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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  • Well, I imagine being colonized and subjugated by foreign powers for 200 years didn't exactly help. =/

    Transforming a society is very slow work in the best of circumstances, and even slower on a continent where many live in poverty with little hope of having their lives improved. Many people just don't know the life and society that exists in the Western world, because that society is built on the backs of thousands of years of improvement and, at times, exploitation of others.

    When people's individual needs are satisfied, and their wants are within their reach, then it becomes easier to tackle the problems of society.
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    Laurentus
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  • Tell that to pretty much every corrupt government in Africa. Certainly, some blame falls on those who subjugated Africans for so long, instead of providing guidance, but the superstitions present long before Europeans came on the scene were far worse than anything that followed.

    Of course, Europeans' approach was to slaughter the "heathens" by the thousands, which didn't help anyone, however wrong these barbaric African beliefs were, but the general African government attitude is to continue blaming colonialism, while they steal money, raise taxes, build monstrous mansions and generally live the good life at the expense of the taxpayer.

    And the most tragic part is that the people don't vote against these governments, because they fucking buy this shit. Of course, these governments encourage this instability and superstition by not developing education systems, as a smart and educated voter wouldn't vote for them. For instance, none of my black friends at the university vote for the ANC, the ruling party, but the uneducated majority continues to do so.

    So yes, some blame definitely belongs with European colonialism, but actually a pretty bloody small part, all things considered. As long as that attitude is maintained, nothing will improve.

    EDIT: But I digress. I've drifted off topic. It's relatively easy to get me to rant about Africa. These particular beliefs and policies stem much from evangelicals and the church's continued involvement. But it should be noted some of these beliefs were present well before the church came.

    And in case it sounds like I'm defending the church, I'm sorry. I have expressed my distaste for the church and religion in general before, so that's not what it's about, lol.

    EDIT 2: I also meant majority, not minority.
    « Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 07:46:09 PM by Laurentus »
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    Michi
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  • And the most tragic part is that the people don't vote against these governments, because they fucking buy this shit. Of course, these governments encourage this instability and superstition by not developing education systems, as a smart and educated voter wouldn't vote for them. For instance, none of my black friends at the university vote for the ANC, the ruling party, but the uneducated majority continues to do so.


    It's essentially the same in America in different ways.  Compared to other parts of the world, we're handed everything on a silver platter despite how much people tend to say that strictly about the rich.  But most Americans grow up in some sort of home, and are able to make a future for themselves and are well taken care of (and yes, compared to some countries out there, even lower class is still very well taken care of), have plenty of opportunities to get at least a decent job and work their way up, and are educated in some degree because we have the privilege of being able to at least attend public school all the way until graduation of high school (and are even still given that privilege if we repeatedly show lack of interest in what we learn or have learning problems...AND are given extra help in the latter field, AND have the opportunity to go for a GED and go to college if we drop out of high school), and even have many opportunities to attend college for free/through scholarships/grants, or through student loans.

    Yet, we have an incredibly fucked up government system that needs excruciating fine tuning and work done to it.  We have two branches of government that essentially hold all of the power, and then we have the president that seemingly holds some as well, but is essentially a political figurehead meant to stand around, look pretty, and make promises.

    People will always complain because the promises almost 90% of the time completely fall through, and it's "Obama's fault" or "Bush's fault" or "Clinton's fault" because they made promises that they'd accomplish all of these things and didn't go through with it.

    But those same people always forget one very important fact: Practically anything the president does can be completely overturned by Congress.

    Essentially, it's a game of luck.  If, say, the House and Senate have Republicans as a majority and the president is a Democrat (or vice versa), then absolutely nothing will be accomplished because Democrats and Republicans can almost never agree on anything.  Both parties are almost always complete contrasts of each other unless it's hot button issues that would give them bad publicity if they went about it the wrong way (and even then, apparently ANY publicity is good publicity).  So president Obama can, for example, make promises to improve the economy, do away with student loan debt, or end world hunger.  But if Congress decides it doesn't want to agree, then they essentially hold more power to throw constant hurdles in his path (IE the complete shutdown of congress for days because disagreements).

    Sadly, both parties are inherantly flawed, and you'll hear people constantly complain about it and how it's an imperfect system that needs to be fixed.  But they'll still vote for that system and will do absolutely nothing to fix it outside of complaining...because complaining is easy when you can do it on your bed while talking on your cell phone and typing on your laptop with the lights in your room still on.

    Oh, you're mad because Bush is screwing up the economy with his choices?  Then why did you vote for him?   What? Obama made promises that he didn't follow through with?  Then go back, read a book on how government actually works, and then come back and complain about the right people.  Why continue to vote for the people that you know will always give half-assed promises when you know they're not the ones that can follow through with them?  If you vote for someone and then hate how they do, then don't complain about them or continue to complain about candidates you don't think are doing what you want.  DO something about it.  Go out there and get active and stand up for what you think should be done.  Sitting on your ass and eating bon bons and complaining isn't going to accomplish anything, and it shows that while you're vocally saying something, you're completely content with how the system is ran.

    Because guess what?  Sitting back and whining about how the economy is bad doesn't do crap.  The increasing poverty level is going to just continue to increase while you sit back in your comfy chair whining about it.  Do your part fix it, and maybe cut back on buying that giant flatscreen that you don't actually need?  That's a start.
    « Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 02:12:46 AM by Pengu »
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    Michi
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    Laurentus
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  • Yes, but in Africa's case, it's hard to "read a book on how shit works" when the majority of people can't read, or, indeed, have access to any sort of education at all. The majority of South Africans live in rundown squatter camps, at least 50 kilometres away from a PRIMARY SCHOOL, nevermind high school.

    And the schools that are there, are completely hopeless for the most part. There aren't enough books, there's no electricity, basic sanitation isn't a thing, and to top it all off, a culture developed in Apartheid where if the school isn't satisfactory, they burn it down. How do you win? How do you change anything, especially when the government can't be bothered to do anything, and there is a deep distrust of white people (who have the knowledge and skills needed to change things, but who are dismissed as "racist, imperialist pigs") and black people who come from well-off families and actually went to university are mocked by the majority as being "too white" for their tastes.

    The problems in Africa are so many, that there really isn't a thing you can point at and say: "Yes, let's start here, fix it and move on to other things," because no one with the knowledge to change things is given the power or trust to do so. Even realising that it is mostly the government's fault that this continues, and not the populace, it's hard not to become apathetic and move to another country. Especially when it's made clear to you, over and over again, that "Africa is for Africans."
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Michi
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  • Yes, but in Africa's case, it's hard to "read a book on how shit works" when the majority of people can't read, or, indeed, have access to any sort of education at all. The majority of South Africans live in rundown squatter camps, at least 50 kilometres away from a PRIMARY SCHOOL, nevermind high school.

    And the schools that are there, are completely hopeless for the most part. There aren't enough books, there's no electricity, basic sanitation isn't a thing, and to top it all off, a culture developed in Apartheid where if the school isn't satisfactory, they burn it down. How do you win? How do you change anything, especially when the government can't be bothered to do anything, and there is a deep distrust of white people (who have the knowledge and skills needed to change things, but who are dismissed as "racist, imperialist pigs") and black people who come from well-off families and actually went to university are mocked by the majority as being "too white" for their tastes.

    The problems in Africa are so many, that there really isn't a thing you can point at and say: "Yes, let's start here, fix it and move on to other things," because no one with the knowledge to change things is given the power or trust to do so. Even realising that it is mostly the government's fault that this continues, and not the populace, it's hard not to become apathetic and move to another country. Especially when it's made clear to you, over and over again, that "Africa is for Africans."

    That part was more ranty than anything else since, as I said, Americans essentially have everything at their disposal to be well educated, and many continue to take that for granted and make absolutely piss poor decisions while complaining about the long term outcome that those decisions cause.

    So it's similar, but not exactly the same as Africa to where many don't have the luxury of even having a television, let alone a computer or a phone.  But it's just the case of uneducated masses (in America's case, the willingly uneducated masses) making the same stupid decisions time after time, and then wondering why the problem is still continuing.  More people are willing to buy what people are telling them rather than go out and learn for themselves (again, much more in America's case), and that doesn't cause progress...but can potentially cause regression.
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    Seroim
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  • All I know about this is that Zuma got charged with rape, then testified in front of the whole world that he took a shower to avoid catching AIDS.

    Then he got reelected.

    It's not too different from Stephen "Robocall" Harper getting caught with his pants completely down cheating in an election while whistling Dixie, then getting reelected as the people didn't give a single shit.

    People are people everywhere, and people are invariably stupid and easy to manipulate, especially in large groups. Political parties exist to give raise to mass psychology, forming a monolithic block that can be directed much more easily against other blocks with an "us vs them" mentality than if you were to try and convince every member individually.

    In Africa, what works is the "blame the white man" movement. Here, what works with the Natives is also "blame the white man", and what works with us is "blame the social programs".

    White men might have been at fault in the past with their arbitrary colonial borders making every African country pretty much a multicultural mess, but we also left behind our political traditions and ideas and our infrastructure. Africa shouldn't as bad as it is now. Look at ex-Rhodesia and the shithole it is now. Some Zimbabweans even miss Ian Smith because at least the country wasn't utter shit while he ruled.
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