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I'm not LGBT+ myself, but it's refreshing to see a forum this open about it. I've only seen it once before, but that forum's sadly changed a lot so I don't really go there much anymore
A lot of my friends from there are part of the community in someway, so I still have the issue close to my heart either way. I just feel really happy whenever I see this thread or a thread like this one, it gives me hope!

So, uh...
I'm just gonna go back to lurking

I doubt I'd want to live for an extra 13 years without balls. Not wanting to have sex would be terrible. And even that is a secondary problem to not being able to reproduce.

I believe I did say that I don't really care about people's genders or their perceived genders. It's largely a thing of the past. Our survival doesn't really depend on people's gender-specific perceptions of themselves anymore, so if people want to change their sexes, I honestly don't see the problem.

That being said, I am completely comfortable with both my real and psychological sexual identity as a man.

I'm mostly teasing at this point, anyways.

I'm not LGBT+ myself, but it's refreshing to see a forum this open about it. I've only seen it once before, but that forum's sadly changed a lot so I don't really go there much anymore
A lot of my friends from there are part of the community in someway, so I still have the issue close to my heart either way. I just feel really happy whenever I see this thread or a thread like this one, it gives me hope!

So, uh...
I'm just gonna go back to lurking

Thanks for the kind words! One of the things I pride Wintreath on as a region is its openness and approach-ability about issues like this and other, more raunchy or controversial discussions. I think it's one of the things that make us stand out as a region people can open up about themselves and connect with others in.

ll those positions and expressions and for that I am quite glad...
On the ISA thing... A does not stand for motherfucking allies... Not at all, Jesus... Asexual and agender for the A's... Allies not being a gender or sexuality experience, it doesn't really belong there... Allies don't need a bloody letter.
As for the S, usually I see it written out as just an addition to the Intersex... Having the IS be together... *shrugs* I might not be paying attention though...

You're partly right, and also partly wrong.

When it was just LGBTQA, it did stand for just allies, since it made sense to give allies just as much recognition.  And why shouldn't they get that recognition?  The movements of the LGBT community for equal rights, for example, would be far less possible if their allies didn't step in to help as well.  Allies deserve all of the recognition they get for helping propel the LGBT movement in the ways they do, and thus they deserve a letter on that list.

And they still have it.  The A just now incorporates more than one group, since it stands for both Allies/Advocates, and Asexual/Aromantic.

While I agree that allies are infinitely important to a movement it is still questionable to toss them that letter.
I'm an lgbt+ identified person. That's because I am Bisexual, the b, and those words are ones that apply to me. If we assume that a is ally then a completely straight guy could also be lgbt+ identified... Which functionally is not true... Similarly, I can support the black power movement but that does not make me black.
Ya' dig?

Because LGBT+ as a title extends outside the movement... It's an identity...

Because LGBT+ as a title extends outside the movement... It's an identity...

So your identity is strictly as bisexual? There's absolutely nothing else about you outside of that?

That's what the LGBTQISA+ is really about, it's not about exclusitivity for certain groups because it's strictly about them, why should it be?  The whole thing with the LGBT movement has been for people who identify as one of the letters to be treated as fairly as those who don't.

Why shouldn't allies be included in that?  They used to (and in many areas still do) get just as much shit for associating with LGBT types as if they were one themselves.  If you identified as an ally/supporter, you might as well have just called yourself a homosexual because you were going to be treated like you were one.

While nowadays that's much less likely the case as more people are becoming open about it, that doesn't mean we need to take them off the list or diminish the importance of having them on our side.  Why should LGBTQA be limited strictly to those who love a certain type physically?  Shouldn't it also be including those who love emotionally? Allies may not be "Lgbt+" types in the sense that they don't phyiscally have attraction to those they're standing up for, but it's highly obvious that the emotional love they have is in spades, and that's something that matters just as much. 

If an ally wants to consider themselves an LGBTQA+ type, then I fully support it because that's their way of saying that even if they're not Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgender/Intersex/Asexual/Questioning themselves, they still very much want to be part of the community of the people they love.  And shutting them out of that community by saying they can't identify within it is counterproductive to the cause the community is going for.

I fundamentally disagree with what you've just said, but that's okay, we are resigned to our different opinions...

Let me put it this way: There's a difference between it being a part of you, and being your identity.  When you introduce yourself, do you go "Hi, my name is Reon, I'm bisexual, it's nice to meet you" ? Because I sure as hell don't do that, and I'm pretty sure even allies don't walk up to people and say "Hi, my name is Bob, and I'm a complete supporter and ally to the LGBT community" when they introduce themselves.  Some people do make it a habit to do that (in both cases), but that can be said of other areas such as religion/education and the like as well.

While the semantics of genetics versus feelings/upbringing are different (IE, arguably your being "bisexual" or "gay" or "transgender" is tied to your genetics, whereas their wanting to be an ally are tied more to feelings/their upbringing), essentially they're both still something that are part of you, but not your complete identity.  I don't know about you, but my identity is:

Name: Maxwell
Age: 28
Sex: Male

And that's my identity.  Everything else beyond that is filler for conversation and for added bonus.  Do I like guys?  Sure, but I don't identify as "Person who likes guys" as much as I don't identify as "person who plays video games" or "person who has a job."  They're part of my life and my sexuality is part of me, but it doesn't make up my identity.

On my final thoughts on that subject, I'll end with this:

In World War II, anyone who helped the Jews or was harboring a Jew was for all intensive purposes considered one themselves, and were either killed right there or sent to the concentation camps just like the others, and were given the same punishments and treated on the same level.

When it came to equal rights for African Americans, white people who supported it were considered part of that "community" and thus beaten to death, killed, or given some other cruel punishment equal to that of the actual African Americans that they were supporting.

The same has happened in the name of civil rights for LGBT people for decades.  Allies who support the LGBT community would automatically be thrown in as part of the community, and would get the same beatings as an LGBT person would, and would even be killed.  To those who are vehemently against it, it doesn't matter if you're just a supporter, because that automatically makes you part of that community, and thus you're treated the same as that community.

So why not embrace that mentality and let allies be part of that community and let them sit with us instead of saying "Okay, we respect and love you...but you can't sit at our table" ?  Is it really going to hurt us that much letting Allies/Advocates/Supporters have a letter up there that tells people that they're an integral part of the LGBT community?  No, it's not.

So I'm curious, Seroim and Laurentus...if for some reason your penises were to be removed, like if an angry ex were to chop them off and reattachment was impossible, would you no longer be men?

I would say "I'm still a man because despite being Bobbitt'd I still have the secondary physical characteristics of one"

But let's say that this ex manages to remove all that from me. My answer would be I don't have a clue. Now this is my personal opinion and feel free to disagree but when it comes to my own perception of myself and my own life, this isn't a question I find relevant. Not because I'm comfortable with my gender role because as I said, I know full well that I'm not a very good man.

Why do I think I'm not a very good man? Well, a man in the West is supposed to :

• found a family;
• be industrious and provide for it by working;
• compete with his peers;
• be ambitious;
• take risks;
• be dutiful;
• assertive;
• and responsible.

And what I am or do :

• I'm an antinatalist (having children is not a good thing to me so obviously I don't want any);
• I'm shockingly lazy and wouldn't even provide for myself if I could get away with it;
• I avoid any sort of competition like the plague because I hate losing;
• I don't care about my social standing and I am generally content with my yoke in life;
• I never take risks because I value stability, comfort and routine over unpredictable outcomes;
• I generally don't like committing to anything and I will always consider my self-interest before any sense of duty;
• I am extremely non-confrontational in my personal life and I will generally roll over simply to avoid a dispute (debates are an exception : when it comes to having an opinion I'm incredibly stubborn and always right);
• and not only do I shirk away from any responsibility I can avoid, but I always do the required minimum to fulfill them and no more.

There are things that I do well as a man. Men are expected to be emotionally strong : I can pass as emotionally strong but I'm simply emotionally blunted. Still, we'll say that counts. Men are expected to be rational : I'm so rational as to be predictable and rigid which is exactly how I like things to be. But on the whole, I'm quite a failure as far as men go. Most stuff men strive for, I feel no need to try to attain. Most things that are expected of men by others are things I actively avoid, and there are a few that I find ridiculous. Chivalry is a good one. The idea of acting differently towards someone else because she happens to have a vagina is silly to me, and I'm saying that as a straight man. Hell, my mom would be a much better man than I.

I'm generally ill-adapted to society so maybe the idea of gender is simply another I'm ill-fitted to. Gender-sex is a dichotomy I've never felt the need to distinguish, and perhaps more critically I can't even imagine what it feels like to do so. I'm not a very good man and truthfully I don't identify with my gender role at all : being a "man" in the purely social sense (embodying masculine qualities and responsibilities) is about as foreign to me as being a "woman". But I feel that's more a case of my rejecting superfluous and generally arbitrary social constructs that are irrelevant to my life and my sense of self-identification than identifying as someone with no gender.

Keep in mind, I don't think I've ever shared this but I do have an ASD (I'm on a spectrum too; just a different one). Maybe that has something to do with it. I've learned the hard way that even if I don't feel something, it does not mean that it doesn't exist. Sounds pretty dumb as a life lesson but that was a knock that took me a long time to learn and even now I'm still generally unable to ascribe to people their own desires, feelings and motivations : I just transpose my own on them, which is generally a recipe for disaster and makes people absolutely incomprehensible.

But this is one issue where I try very carefully not to do that (I learned that from personal experience, heh, launched a few shitstorms on the subject back in my day). I'm saying that because I have the feeling my post could be construed as saying that transsexuality or the idea of gender as something mental doesn't exist or that gender identity isn't important. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just saying that I don't feel it at all and I think I'm not ever going to be able to understand it, which conversely makes it a non-issue in my life. Maybe I'm lucky because that stuff sure sounds confusing.

So sorry if I have offended in any way, eh

I'm the token straight white guy.

I thought that was my title.

I'm the token straight white guy.

I thought that was my title.

It certainly is easy to feel like a minority here, doesn't it, gents?