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Honestly, I think you're both a bit in the wrong in this whole silly argument.

CoS: As much as you might have heard that Gov didn't tell you in a trial, you WERE there to defend him.  Regardless of whether they would have had your head or not, your reputation, or whether the trial was a farce because it was a formality, none of that changes the fact that you were brought to defend him.  Nobody ever said it was an easy task, otherwise more lawyers would have a better time since some of them defend actual criminals, but push through it regardless.  But regardless of whatever Gov's issues were and whatever you were told, the fact of the matter in the end is that you were brought to defend him, and should have seen it to the end.

Gov: As much as I can understand the reasoning for bringing something like this to the attention of other candidates and voters, much like my questioning him earlier in the topic...continuing to press on it constantly and what seems like trying to pressure him into cracking and saying something stupid is highly unnecessary.   I'm sure everyone got the idea in the first post about why you think he's untrustworthy and how that might translate in office.  But pressing it on and on in what seems like trying to get a rise out of him?  You're going beyond what I'm assuming you were attending and just being a bit harsh in continuing to press things.

That's all I have to say.

I find the whole Gov/Spiritus affair to be unsettling on many levels, but I suppose the level that is relevant here are the issues that Pengu just brought up. You stated in this topic that you believe Gov was innocent, but you abandoned your commitment to defend him seemingly to protect your own reputation. As you said, your reputation would have been shattered if you had defended him.

Now you're running for government office in a region with strong principles that has had to go to bat against foreign regions to protect the rights of our Citizens and the sovereignty of our region. If you were called upon to do the same as a member of our government, would you look to your responsibilities and commitments to this region, or to your reputation in other regions? If you were called upon to try a case involving Gov or some other Citizen, could you ignore foreign pressure that may arise to come to a specific decision?

I don't agree at all with Gov dragging the issue out and making it unnecessarily personal for this venue, but I think given the situation as it happened with the motivations that you stated those are legitimate questions. And for the record, I like you very much as a person, and I'm glad you're a part of Wintreath, but I'm bringing these questions up because they're important questions for this election and for you. I feel in order to advance politically in this region, you will have to decisively convince the people through your words and actions that you are here for the long haul and that you won't abandon them or the region, even if sticking with us might be unpopular elsewhere.

Wintreath is an amazing community of friends. It's a great honour to be entrusted by this community with a role in its leadership, but it is also a responsibility, and not always an easy one.

Defending him wasn't the risk. Winning was, although as I said, there was literally no possibility that we could have won the case. I decided to defend him for 2 reasons, 1.) He did not violate Spiritus law. 2.) I sympathized with the fact that he was unfairly banned from the region. It happened to me once and I was far from happy about it.

The fact of the matter is, if I had won, Gov would have just got himself banned again. You know that, I know that and Gov definitely knows that. I could not in good conscience fight a futile battle. I'd do no such thing even for myself. When you've lost, you just have to accept that. Gov is just too volatile. I built a strong case for him. He still has all the information I had prepared for the case. He had the arguments ready. He could have defended himself, but he would much rather have someone else in the plane with him as it crashed into the mountainside.

Gov's case is...unique. Unique in that well, this is Gov we're talking about. No matter which region such a case would take place, whether it be TNP, Spiritus or even here, it is a lost cause. It is Gov's fault that this happened. His actions and behavior made it an impossible battle. If he had instead acted his age and respected the personal privacy of others, he'd still be in Spiritus and The North Pacific. I absolutely refuse to throw myself on top of the very bomb he armed.

I believe everyone has a right to a fair trial, but when a fair trial is not an option there's just nothing that can be done. Frankly I regret being duped into defending him in the first place. Getting involved in that god awful mess has plagued me from the start and I am so tired of being harassed by Gov because I came to my senses. Until today I was willing to overlook all of the times he bothered me, despite the countless times I have explained myself to him. I even approved his citizenship in Renegade Islands. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. How did he thank me? By cussing out people in the RIA irc channel. I warned him about his language and behavior, frequently. Everyone else thought I was crazy to let Gov be a citizen. I also regret that decision. The fact that he has remained silent there since his last slip up is the only good thing he has done since coming over there. Never mind the fact that he hasn't made a single contribution to it. He only came to that channel to bug me about his case for the hundredth time.

I'm sick of it all. As a citizen here in Wintreath, Gov's rights matter to me. That's as far as it goes. I just can't tolerate him anymore. I don't like Gov in the least, but as a fellow citizen of Wintreath I have his back. However I will no longer involve myself in his personal issues with other people. Those are his problems that he has to either take care of or forget about and just move on with his life already. If Gov can't grow up and like a freakin' adult then I see no reason why that should be any concern of mine.

That was actually a well written response.  Since I don't know the details of Gov's time in Spiritus or anywhere else out there, I'll refrain from further comments about it.  However, your last paragraph was the really the bit that I was looking for in this whole thing.

I don't care at all if you don't like someone, that's your personal business, and I'll respect the fact that you dislike them.  Not everyone on Wintreath is going to like each other, and the same goes for practically everywhere else.

What matters though, is that you put personal matters aside and be civil with that person since they're still very much a part of the community.  And as someone elected by the people, that becomes an essential requirement to the role.  So I was very pleased to see you say that while you personally dislike him, you'll still look out for him since he's a fellow Wintreathean.

However, I will also say that talk is cheap, and actions speak louder than words.  To me this means that if you're going to take that mindset, then talking about him even outside of Wintreath to others isn't an option.  As you've no doubt seen, things like that, even in another place that you both are a part of, have a way of finding their way back here and creating exceptional amounts of tension for everyone.  Partly because it shows that you can't follow through on your own promises, and because you should know by now that it's going to be brought up and it's going to turn into yet another argument.  So before you say you have his back as a fellow member of Wintreath, then make sure you actually mean it.

I'm just so fed up with Gov. I tried to prevent him from communicating with me to avoid this, because this was the only outcome. As a person I may find him to be the highest degree of annoying, but I can (begrudgingly) push that aside should I have to act in any official capacity here.

Gov, if you're reading this, from this point on I will only communicate with you if it pertains to matters of Wintreath. All further attempts to irritate me will fall on deaf ears. So for the love of all that is good, just stop whining to me about Spiritus. What happened there has no bearing whatsoever outside of Spiritus and I'll not address it again, ever, no matter how hard you try. The only response you'll get is a complaint to the judiciary for harassing me.

I'm just so fed up with Gov. I tried to prevent him from communicating with me to avoid this, because this was the only outcome. As a person I may find him to be the highest degree of annoying, but I can (begrudgingly) push that aside should I have to act in any official capacity here.

Gov, if you're reading this, from this point on I will only communicate with you if it pertains to matters of Wintreath. All further attempts to irritate me will fall on deaf ears. So for the love of all that is good, just stop whining to me about Spiritus. What happened there has no bearing whatsoever outside of Spiritus and I'll not address it again, ever, no matter how hard you try. The only response you'll get is a complaint to the judiciary for harassing me.

And I respect that you have been attempting to find ways to work around this, as I'm sure we all know how persistent he can be sometimes when he's trying to make a point.  But I'm just hoping you realize the magnitude of that promise that you're making.  I'd really rather not see it coming down to you accidentally/intentionally gossiping about him in another IRC because something happened, it coming back here much like things like that normally do, and it end up blowing up in your face.  Like Mooty, I actually do like you, and I do like Gov as well, even though we may have our differences from time to time.  So the last thing I want to see is a future mistake happening off of Wintreath and then biting you on here.

Trust me, you don't have to worry about me gossiping. If I have something to say, especially if it pertains to how I feel about Gov, I'll say it to his face, gladly. Because that's how I was raised.

Now, all this has me tired, in more ways than one. I'm going to get some sleep, calm down a bit. I really hope this whole thing with Gov ends here. If I have to keep talking about it I may very well do something I'll regret.

I find the whole Gov/Spiritus affair to be unsettling on many levels, but I suppose the level that is relevant here are the issues that Pengu just brought up. You stated in this topic that you believe Gov was innocent, but you abandoned your commitment to defend him seemingly to protect your own reputation. As you said, your reputation would have been shattered if you had defended him.

Now you're running for government office in a region with strong principles that has had to go to bat against foreign regions to protect the rights of our Citizens and the sovereignty of our region. If you were called upon to do the same as a member of our government, would you look to your responsibilities and commitments to this region, or to your reputation in other regions? If you were called upon to try a case involving Gov or some other Citizen, could you ignore foreign pressure that may arise to come to a specific decision?

I don't agree at all with Gov dragging the issue out and making it unnecessarily personal for this venue, but I think given the situation as it happened with the motivations that you stated those are legitimate questions. And for the record, I like you very much as a person, and I'm glad you're a part of Wintreath, but I'm bringing these questions up because they're important questions for this election and for you. I feel in order to advance politically in this region, you will have to decisively convince the people through your words and actions that you are here for the long haul and that you won't abandon them or the region, even if sticking with us might be unpopular elsewhere.

Wintreath is an amazing community of friends. It's a great honour to be entrusted by this community with a role in its leadership, but it is also a responsibility, and not always an easy one.

It may come off as personal, but the issue here Wintermoot is is inability to honour commitments, no matter how unpopular it may seem.  He only cared about himself and not about fulfilling his obligation to me.  How can I trust him as a legislator if he can't even complete something major like that?  We've already seen Denth up and left the region because of his self-centred behaviour.

Now, to respond to the next post, with relevant parts:

The fact of the matter is, if I had won, Gov would have just got himself banned again. You know that, I know that and Gov definitely knows that. I could not in good conscience fight a futile battle. I'd do no such thing even for myself. When you've lost, you just have to accept that. Gov is just too volatile. I built a strong case for him. He still has all the information I had prepared for the case. He had the arguments ready. He could have defended himself, but he would much rather have someone else in the plane with him as it crashed into the mountainside.

No I wouldn't have.  I was banned because Tim admitted he wanted to be an asshole.  This was about fighting a bully, and you let the bully have what he wants.  I was not in an emotional state to defend myself rationally, and I needed someone else who knew Spiritus law better than I.  The first person I asked was too busy and had medical issues.  Dolphin started but couldn't finish the job because he had a job IRL and didn't bother saying much until the last minute that he was working lots of hours.  When I came to COS for help, I trusted him he would help me.  I'm an honour-based person, and I'm sorry if I felt that COS had any honour or decency or good character in him, but I went to him for that reason.  I didn't violate the law, Tim just decided to be a douche.

Gov's case is...unique. Unique in that well, this is Gov we're talking about. No matter which region such a case would take place, whether it be TNP, Spiritus or even here, it is a lost cause. It is Gov's fault that this happened. His actions and behavior made it an impossible battle. If he had instead acted his age and respected the personal privacy of others, he'd still be in Spiritus and The North Pacific. I absolutely refuse to throw myself on top of the very bomb he armed.

It isn't my fault that this happened, now you're the one engaging in victim shaming.  This had nothing to do with privacy violations - however rubbish the accusation was in TNP, it is irrelevant to Spiritus.  There was no law violation on my part in Spiritus.  I was barely active there to commit any violation of laws, and in the Spiritus law book, I violated none.  I was bullied and disrespected simply because I don't have the social skills and grace of everyone else, and I don't fit Tim's views and ideology, so I was persecuted, and you essentially condoned that behaviour with your actions.  I simply wanted to be treated with respect as you expect others to be treated, and instead I've been enduring harassment and bullying to far too many extremes than any of my social faux-pas have caused. 

I believe everyone has a right to a fair trial, but when a fair trial is not an option there's just nothing that can be done. Frankly I regret being duped into defending him in the first place. Getting involved in that god awful mess has plagued me from the start and I am so tired of being harassed by Gov because I came to my senses. Until today I was willing to overlook all of the times he bothered me, despite the countless times I have explained myself to him. I even approved his citizenship in Renegade Islands. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. How did he thank me? By cussing out people in the RIA irc channel. I warned him about his language and behavior, frequently. Everyone else thought I was crazy to let Gov be a citizen. I also regret that decision. The fact that he has remained silent there since his last slip up is the only good thing he has done since coming over there. Never mind the fact that he hasn't made a single contribution to it. He only came to that channel to bug me about his case for the hundredth time.

I'm sick of it all. As a citizen here in Wintreath, Gov's rights matter to me. That's as far as it goes. I just can't tolerate him anymore. I don't like Gov in the least, but as a fellow citizen of Wintreath I have his back. However I will no longer involve myself in his personal issues with other people. Those are his problems that he has to either take care of or forget about and just move on with his life already. If Gov can't grow up and like a freakin' adult then I see no reason why that should be any concern of mine.

I have nothing to thank you for.  You didn't honour your commitment to defend me and you just threw me under the bus because you only cared about yourself instead of the cause you so claimed to champion and believe in.  You may claim you believe I am innocent, but your actions showed you're willing to throw someone to the wolves to save your ass.  Your actions bring shame, dishonour, and disgrace upon yourself. 

My contributions to the RIA, or lack thereof, have no relevance to the issue at hand, which is your credibility.  I have readily explained that fighting to financially stabilise myself and keep a roof over my head for both myself and my cat, while dealing with the anniversary loss of my mother, was far more important than indulging anyone's whims or requests on Wintreath.  Wintermoot and others mostly understood that.   That is exactly why I haven't run in this election. 

The only adult I don't see here is you, how you passively avoided speaking to me like a coward.  You clearly didn't explain anything to my face until I had to directly press the issue, because you were not making logical sense.  You never came to me with any issues you heard from others, and asked.  If you did ask, I would have gladly addressed them all, and told you how their attempts to engage in character defamation were just A. hearsay, B. personal attacks and nothing of substance, and C. irrelevant to the Spiritus case or justifying Tim and Salax's behaviour.  You instead, chose to side with the mob justice.  It makes you look like a shitty lawyer, and even now, a shitty politician with zero credibility.

Your actions are inexcusable.  You failed to communicate, you failed to uphold your end of the commitments, and you failed to show that you believe in innocence until proven guilty.  In the end, your claims are hollow, at most a lie, and nothing but a poor attempt to cover yourself. 

It may sound like I make this personal, because the way with which I have been hurt by SPiritus people has hurt me seriously.  It was already bad enough that I was burned by Tim's other friends when their attempt to manipulate me with a fake suicide attempt was shitty enough, but now this. 

The only reason I'm still sane, or haven't gone off the deep end in terms of NS, is Wintreath and I won't have that ruined by someone who wants to dishonour me for their personal gain or because they feel that appeasing the mob and bullies will further their political career.

That is all I'll say further on this subject matter.  Either way, you don't deserve a vote, or a seat in the UH, IMO.