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I think I'll just let your belligerence speak for itself.

How adult of you. Such the diplomat.

If the Monarchy does not wish for the executive discussions to be public that should just be the policy. To act like you're doing your peasants a favor by letting them be "in the know" about last years politics...is a little insulting.

I think that's more than a little out of line.

If you recall, this issue began over a proposed law in the spring which would have allowed Citizens to request information on very specific topics, a law that wasn't Constitutionally viable and even if it were had many other flaws. There was never a request or desire for things to be displayed wholesale, so this policy actually exceeds anything that has actually ever been requested before, and more to the point exceeds the policies of most other regions as I've seen based on my apparent limited experience in NationStates.

I would say there are probably no other provisions in NS that are called sunshine provisions. Nor admittedly have I seen a case where there is clear legislation that defines a set time when such discussions are open. However, in the British Isles the cabinet discussions are open for all citizens, and ambassadors, to view. The Global Right Alliance has similar privileges.

The South Pacific has a sunshine policy of eight months written into their Code of Laws, though I'm unware of any other regions with a written policy. Informal policies aside, and I would argue that the GRA isn't really applicable here due to its different government structure, it's safe to say that the vast majority of gameplay regions have a private Cabinet area that remains private.

Wintermoot, he's not being belligerent.  I assure you, from what I've seen of Jonewest, he's still being civil.  He can be belligerent if you want to see his belligerent side, and it's nothing like this .

The only one here that's getting out of line is you here Wintermoot with your attitude.  You are coming off as overly defensive and condescending. 

You say one year is better than what other regions have.  TSP, by your own admission, has it at eight months.  That's a shorter wait time.  We can strive to be better than other regions.  We shouldn't have to be at other regional standards, we should strive to set our own that exceeds others.  We haven't hit that level.  One year to wait for discussions that happened a year ago for a month's worth of discussions is, in terms of time here on this game, very unreasonable and falls below what you claim we're exceeding.  If it was kept at six months, that would be more reasonable, and THEN your claim would hold merit.  However, it does not.

To say also things like:

so this policy actually exceeds anything that has actually ever been requested before, and more to the point exceeds the policies of most other regions as I've seen based on my apparent limited experience in NationStates.

still comes off as very condescending and with a "holier-than-thou" attitude, so yes, I believe Jonewest was in every right to say that you treating us like peasants having to be grateful you're doing us a "favour" is rather insulting to all of us.

There's nothing wrong with striving to improve, and changing things.  I don't see why you're afraid of change, outside of personal pride.

There you go again, Gov, deriding people for their attitudes and then ramping the passive-aggressive tone up to 11. 

The fact that a top-50 region - a monarchy at that - has integrated a sunshine provision in executive policy is QUITE progressive, a fact you've failed to recognize in the slightest. When given the 8-hour workday, you would be asking for 6. When given streamlined immigration policy, you would ask for full amnesty. When given six months sunshine policy, you would ask for immediate public viewing of executive discussions.

If you want to get passive-aggressive, I could ask why you seem to have such a keen interest in our private executive conversations.

There you go again, Gov, deriding people for their attitudes and then ramping the passive-aggressive tone up to 11. 

The fact that a top-50 region - a monarchy at that - has integrated a sunshine provision in executive policy is QUITE progressive, a fact you've failed to recognize in the slightest. When given the 8-hour workday, you would be asking for 6. When given streamlined immigration policy, you would ask for full amnesty. When given six months sunshine policy, you would ask for immediate public viewing of executive discussions.

If you want to get passive-aggressive, I could ask why you seem to have such a keen interest in our private executive conversations.

It's not deriding people.  The only one that's been passive aggressive about this is Wintermoot, and I'm calling him out on it. 

The only people that seem to be passive-aggressive are the ones who are apparently being sensitive to criticism for insufficient policies.  He even removed Jonewest from Skype for this.  Wintermoot has repeatedly acted childish instead of accepting the feedback and criticism and refused to change things to improve things in the region.  It's not about how he feels alone.

I didn't deride anyone. What I said was the truth.

It wasn't my policy, and I belong to what is (sorry to say) possibly the least active ministry of the executive. I gain nothing by standing up for this policy except showing I have respect for logic.

I'm not going to play these games with you any further, Gov. In just the last few posts I've been personally attacked, had my character called into question, and been derided as a leader, all over a policy that I came up with which exceeded anything that had ever been previously asked of me on this issue to begin with. And more to the point, all for having committed the cardinal sin of not agreeing with you and a few others.

And it's the same pattern...all of your ideas, points, and arguments are always "reasonable and logical", and anyone that doesn't agree with you is childish, illogical, or a troll. And it's absolute bullshit. You preach "respect and civility", but don't practice it yourself and openly support others that don't when they're agreeing with you. You automatically assume that just because you have an opinion, it's the best thing for the region and then accuse those that don't agree with you of refusing to 'change things to to improve things in the region'. This absolutely isn't the first time, either.

Well, not only was the policy already made in response to feedback when the issue was last brought up, it exceeded what people wanted at the time, and still exceeds what almost all regions do. It was made after careful consideration of the many competing concerns around this issue as I pointed out in the OP, and I believe it will be an improvement, although not in the way you desire. It will answer questions about historical situations and give insight into how we work, but it will not politicize the Cabinet or make their comments on current events and issues into a political circus much like this 'debate' has turned into.

So again, the period will remain one year. I hope some people will be happy with the new policy and the progress made, but I know some people won't be. The thing with making decisions is that someone will always disagree with it, and that's just the way things are. It is what it is, but the decision has been made and I see no further point in repeating the points I've already made over and over again. I hope you will eventually accept this decision, even if you don't agree with it.

And it's the same pattern...all of your ideas, points, and arguments are always "reasonable and logical", and anyone that doesn't agree with you is childish, illogical, or a troll. And it's absolute bullshit. You preach "respect and civility", but don't practice it yourself and openly support others that don't when they're agreeing with you. You automatically assume that just because you have an opinion, it's the best thing for the region and then accuse those that don't agree with you of refusing to 'change things to to improve things in the region'. This absolutely isn't the first time, either.

I never called you a troll or insulted you.  I criticised you on your behaviour, which was passive aggressive and very much deriding people you disagreed with, including how you belittled and treated Jonewest to the point that you removed him from Skype, and caused him to leave the Overhusen.   Even Dawsinian and Chanku told you that you were behaving in a childish manner.

Well, not only was the policy already made in response to feedback when the issue was last brought up, it exceeded what people wanted at the time, and still exceeds what almost all regions do. It was made after careful consideration of the many competing concerns around this issue as I pointed out in the OP, and I believe it will be an improvement, although not in the way you desire. It will answer questions about historical situations and give insight into how we work, but it will not politicize the Cabinet or make their comments on current events and issues into a political circus much like this 'debate' has turned into.

Just because it exceeds something, doesn't mean you can't strive for improvement.  The only reason this went into a circus was because you were unwilling to listen to criticism.  Even Stark suggested trying to reduce it for six months and you didn't even give a reason to him as to what the problem would be in reducing. 

Don't go and pin things and blame things on other people when you don't explain yourself well at all.  You never explained any reasoning as to why six months won't work other than "because this exceeds anything I've ever done".  That's not really any reason at all and it doesn't address the question that myself and Stark have asked.

Everything I said still applies. I regret that you aren't happy with the decision made.

It wasn't my policy, and I belong to what is (sorry to say) possibly the least active ministry of the executive. I gain nothing by standing up for this policy except showing I have respect for logic.

Yeah, we're pretty crap at our very limited jobs... You and I should talk about that and such...

Everything I said still applies. I regret that you aren't happy with the decision made.

I regret that instead of being emotionally sensitive,  you could have handled this situation better.

That's all I say further.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 via Tapatalk

Government transparency can definitely be an emotive issue, but both sides of the debate seem to be using personal attacks, that should stop. Stick to the issue at hand in any further discussion I would suggest from everyone.

Moot has made his decision. At this point there is little point in trying to persuade him differently. We'll just have to ride the tide and see where we go.

Repealed in Full
Besides the fact that we rarely ended up doing this, the move to Discord has made this decree even more irrelevant. Therefore, it is repealed in full.

Ah, are we never going to get public archives of #cabinet then?