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Werewolf XXIII: A Lord of the Rings Adventure
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Red Mones
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    The current vote count is:
    Vroendal - 1 (Laurentus)
    Wille-Harlia - 1 (Vroendal)
    Red Mones
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    Doc
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  • Again, I cannot emphasize enough just how TWTBAW the Vro-Lau wars are, and how I'm absolutely not persuaded Vro is genuinely scum and not just you crawling up your own ass with paranoia (a possibility I was once again reminded of on reviewing Old Games last night trawling for meta knowledge, where Moot spent a whole game convinced I was scum making the single largest distancing play ever when I flipped on Laurentus).

    At this juncture, though, we have 6 full days of mislynches available to us thanks to scum either being inactive or actively being blocked every night (which...seems improbable? just on the basis of numbers; even if there's, say, 2 defenders and 2 blockers, the odds of blocking it both nights are still AT MOST 1/25 (since they could theoretically overlap), which suggests at least one night where they just failed to make a night kill attempt), and while I'm loath to trust that this is genuinely all Hapi's doing because she's actively throwing up more smoke than anything else, at this point magical thinking has set in and so I'd just rather not to go in on her (since if it is her just superhuman blocking powers then, fuck it, that's 13 days and that's more than enough time for the Seer to go on vacation for a 'week', then come back and solve the game).

    The problem is that I have no real scum reads at this point. While I'm not sufficiently persuaded by Lau's arguments as to have 1:1 agreement, I'm willing to trust that there's a mechanical reason to clear BSR (eliminating one of my remaining two former-scum reads), and my opinion of Gerrick has shifted enough on the basis of his analysis as to push him back up into 'null' territory (with pros and cons essentially cancelling each other out).
    On this basis, my sole real existing hypothesis is that scum is just inactive and, accordingly, failing to take their night actions, which makes me think we should drill down on those perceptually inactive people - which then draws a pretty big target on most of the XKIers (sorry tourist friends, but all's fair in love and Werewolf). On that basis, I'd have picked out Dawcreek as a pretty big red flag, but since Minish tagged in before the night phase, I think they're probably clear from being a wolf (since they've been quite active since then, and would, accordingly, have properly at least gone and carried out a night kill).
    In light of this, I'll Vote: HumanSanity in hopes of spurring (one of the three most inactive) to action. Either it works, and we get something to work with, or it doesn't work and we either roust an inactive wolf or, worst-case, preempt the inactivity lynch.
    2 people like this post: Laurentus, Vroendal
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    Minish
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  • I think this should be fine to reveal without going against any rules.

    @Vroendal can you state who your targets have been each night?
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    Laurentus
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  • Again, I cannot emphasize enough just how TWTBAW the Vro-Lau wars are, and how I'm absolutely not persuaded Vro is genuinely scum and not just you crawling up your own ass with paranoia (a possibility I was once again reminded of on reviewing Old Games last night trawling for meta knowledge, where Moot spent a whole game convinced I was scum making the single largest distancing play ever when I flipped on Laurentus).

    At this juncture, though, we have 6 full days of mislynches available to us thanks to scum either being inactive or actively being blocked every night (which...seems improbable? just on the basis of numbers; even if there's, say, 2 defenders and 2 blockers, the odds of blocking it both nights are still AT MOST 1/25 (since they could theoretically overlap), which suggests at least one night where they just failed to make a night kill attempt), and while I'm loath to trust that this is genuinely all Hapi's doing because she's actively throwing up more smoke than anything else, at this point magical thinking has set in and so I'd just rather not to go in on her (since if it is her just superhuman blocking powers then, fuck it, that's 13 days and that's more than enough time for the Seer to go on vacation for a 'week', then come back and solve the game).

    The problem is that I have no real scum reads at this point. While I'm not sufficiently persuaded by Lau's arguments as to have 1:1 agreement, I'm willing to trust that there's a mechanical reason to clear BSR (eliminating one of my remaining two former-scum reads), and my opinion of Gerrick has shifted enough on the basis of his analysis as to push him back up into 'null' territory (with pros and cons essentially cancelling each other out).
    On this basis, my sole real existing hypothesis is that scum is just inactive and, accordingly, failing to take their night actions, which makes me think we should drill down on those perceptually inactive people - which then draws a pretty big target on most of the XKIers (sorry tourist friends, but all's fair in love and Werewolf). On that basis, I'd have picked out Dawcreek as a pretty big red flag, but since Minish tagged in before the night phase, I think they're probably clear from being a wolf (since they've been quite active since then, and would, accordingly, have properly at least gone and carried out a night kill).
    In light of this, I'll Vote: HumanSanity in hopes of spurring (one of the three most inactive) to action. Either it works, and we get something to work with, or it doesn't work and we either roust an inactive wolf or, worst-case, preempt the inactivity lynch.

    I believe I've asked this before: how would you characterise Gerrick and Sapph's scum styles, and would you say they've acted that way at all so far? You're the only person in the game who has been scum with them.

    I would also really like to see your reads list, especially since I feel carefully confident that you're Town, for once.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Vroendal
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  • I think this should be fine to reveal without going against any rules.

    @Vroendal can you state who your targets have been each night?
    I have not targeted any player either night.
    1 person likes this post: Minish
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  • I'm not feeling so sure about Vro anymore. But like, I feel he's the best mechanical lynch.

    Not sure where to go this day. I hate lynching inactives, especially if they're just gonna get modkilled anyways.
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  • Generally, when games hit the "fuck it, let's lynch the inactives" phase, my gut reaction is that I'm misreading some folks as Town when they are in fact scum.

    I don't know, I'm getting frustrated by our lack of progress. I honestly wish a night kill will happen, so that we can have night kill analysis, as lame as that tends to be itself.
    1 person likes this post: BraveSirRobin
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
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    Laurentus
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  • I'm not feeling so sure about Vro anymore. But like, I feel he's the best mechanical lynch.

    Not sure where to go this day. I hate lynching inactives, especially if they're just gonna get modkilled anyways.

    Again, I would like reasoning. Did you get back to checking that old Spongebob game? What's he doing that's making you doubt? If it's "no Wolf sounds this genuine, ever" then yeah, welcome to the last 3 day phases of my life.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Gerrick
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  • What is your reads list?
    I'm currently at work, so I really can't write out a whole thing.

    But one change I will note from my last read list is that Vro has started to lean towards scum for me. Also not completely counting out Wischland like everyone else.

    Red just posted the results as I was typing... Wow we got lucky with that one. Also, what role could possibly resurrect people?

    I am currently ISOing everyone and came across this again. Why do you not feel so hot about Wisch, Gerrick? (Don't know if your read has changed)
    It was mostly her jump on the Dawsinian bandwagon with little reasoning and everyone saying she's safe town. But she's since moved to Town Lean or maybe even Town Core for me now, though, after reading through all of her posts.

    --

    I wanted to create a list of players who have be "cleared" so far. This will allow me to see who I can for now consider to be town (at least for now while we PoE the others). I'm also going to say that the players who have cleared another are also cleared (for this PoE). If one of these players turns out to be scum, then we can assume the one they're tied to is also scum.
    Dawsinian by resurrection
    BraveSirRobin by Laurentus
    Laurentus by BraveSirRobin
    Wintermoot by Sapphiron
    turtle by Minish

    I'll also add that Hapi is Town Core for me (she's Aragorn), and Wischland is for now also Town Core/Lean.

    That leaves 8 players left who are either Lean Scum or Null (from most to least suspicious, though many are pretty close):
    1. Flying Eagles: Didn't vote D1. Was the second-last to join the Michi wagon and gave weak reasoning. Gave a pretty empty reads list without any reasoning.
    2. Eastern New England: Very quiet. Didn't vote D1. Was the last to join the Michi wagon and gave weak reasoning.
    3. HumanSanity: Essentially absent from the game. Has not voted yet.
    4. Ogunbiyi: Pretty quiet. Didn't vote D1. Seemed quite protective of Vroendal early on. Edited a post supposedly after hinting at a role.
    5. Vroendal: Very active. His votes have not looked good and his logic/reasoning has not been good either. His speech seems genuine, and it seems like he's trying to help, but he could just be a good liar. Overall, wouldn't be upset at his lynching since it would likely give good info on players.
    6. TGN: Kind of all over the place and hard to read. The spoilered post below in particular is not sitting well with me. What is this "new information that has come to light"? Could be a fellow wolf telling him to switch off a wagon.
    Spoiler
    Vroendal, there was a LOT of info against Vro and @Gerrick but I just have a gut feeling it's Vro.

    GO WITH YOUR GUT!!!
    Alrightie TGN, since this is your gut specifically I have to convince, I shall make my appeal specifically to you.
    First point of defense - Would this face be an evil person? :wave:
    Second pod - Ooga booga shamalama ding dong, also I have cookies
    Third pod - If you read the posts I've made, they've been created with genuine town motivations, I don't know what specifically I setting you off but I'm making my best effort here. My post against Michi was at least in my opinion a very strong post that really kinda shattered his complete case against me, but maybe I'm just biased.

    And to @Flying Eagles and @Sapphiron my vote is motivated partly by statistical possibility but mostly from the fact that I'm not reading anyone who's been talking a lot as scum, though I am willing to vote Gerrick out of self-preservation, I'm still rather unsure of him as I've stated. To me, I think that at least the majority of the wolves will be found among the lurkers.

    To @Laurentus specifically but also everyone else while honestly at this point I would be fine with and understand the motivation behind lynching me if just for information and to remove the doubt from everyone's mind to focus on those who need to be focused on, I would much rather remain alive, as I am far more useful that way. Lau I've been approaching the game as I have for a reason, I never seem to shut up do I? XD
    UNVOTE
    Vote Gerrick
    I want cook..
    I mean new information has come to light :)
    7. Wille-Harlia: Very quiet. Didn't vote D1. Gave a pretty safe reads list.
    8. Doc: Pretty quiet. Laurentus seems convinced he's Town and has seemed generally helpful, so he's Null but almost at Lean Town.
    1 person likes this post: Wischland

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    ☆ Princess Abigail ☆
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  • If everyone could take this list and separate it into a reads list that would be great. Even if everyone could just name 4 people from this list they don't want to lynch/are leaning town or 4 they're leaning scum for that would help a ton.

    Doc
    Eastern New England
    Flying Eagles
    Gerrick
    HumanSanity
    ogunbiyi6422
    Sapphiron
    The Greenlandic North
    Vroendal
    Wille-Harlia
    Wintermoot
    Wischland


    Here is my thoughts at the moment from this list

    Doc - Was active at the start and made the appearance of scum hunting but has since gone quiet. This scares me,  it would scare me more if he wasn't so insistent on discord about how overwhelming this game is post wise. At this point I have two reads hes town and gave up or he's realized that the best play now is to go quiet because we are more at risk of killing ourselves. I'm null on Doc I can't fur the life of me guess which.

    Eastern New England - I'm kind of not sure they showed up to vote but IIRC they were inactive and on the chopping block. I doubt the whole wild team was inactive and that's why we haven't gotten any night kills. I need to see much much more out of them to make a decision on this so null.

    Flying Eagles - I've admittedly hardly paid attention to them so I'm using the print trick to go thru their posts. What I see is many posts of activity without substance. Wisch noted Flying Eagles as one of the more chatty players and it seems true but they've largely not posted anything that adds to the discussion I think like 60% of their posts that I saw were simple questions about vote counts or D1 random posts. I'm going to lean scum here.

    Gerrick - I read Gerrick as scum and could've had him killed in that wagon I stopped it for the same reasons people are convinced I'm Aragorn. Legolas is in this game assuredly Gerrick soft claimed that and nobody even attempted to counter that.  I know we can't claim roles and he could be lying but you could easily counter a soft claim like this without claiming the role yourself. Gerrick for me is town.

    HumanSanity - Lurker wolf? I mean there's not much to read claim to be busy. Lynching them would be something I'd do later on but I can't read nothing and that scares me. Scum lean.

    ogunbiyi6422 - I'm convinced Ogun is scum the more I think about it. I'm not sure how many games they've played or not but their justification for why they are a town lean was not good. They could be playing quiet because we've been so focused on the wrong targets and I've just...its a gut feeling I have no reason to think this way mechanically I've never played with ogun but this just scares me. Scum.

    Sapphiron - I trust Lau and would lock town Sapph. I won't go much further into that really.

    TGN - my reasoning mirrors Laurentus on TGN. TGN seems less like a lost and confused player and more like a player being told to pretend to be lost and confused especially when you compare the way their posts reads compared to how Turtles do. Turtle I believe as a lost and confused player. I actuality think TGN has been keeping up with the thread if you read between the lines and kinda understands what is going on. Scum lean.

    Vroendal - the more I think about this the more confused I get. It could just be playstyle God knows I'm not one to speak on anyone's playstyle if I read myself I'd always kill me D1 like Doc always wants too. I am beginning to think that like Gerrick, Vro is another townie who we are cutting into for just making some bad reads. Part of this is that I'm now convinced that Willie is scum. Part of this is that Vro kinda seems to now be playing a townie who is just resigned to their fate. But I hesitate because Vro could soft claim and clear themself and they haven't. Maybe because they don't want to break the spirit of the rules or something but Michi soft claimed Gollum was Gollum and no action was taken and Mones basically said hinting at roles is okay just not outright claims. So maybe they just can't soft claim because someone else will counter it and they know it. Or maybe they just don't want to be Hapi lol. I'm reading null with a slight scum lean but I am kinda on board with the lynch Willie plan. If Willie flips town Vro might as well have signed their own death warrant the numbers still favor us. If Willie is evil than Vro is a town lean at the very least and I do agree with Minish, Vro is quite good at reading wolves and there's a reason I killed vro early in summersend wolf iirc. Oh and just another thought... what if Vro is an unaligned player who's whole goal is to just kill Willie ala an Executioner in ToS. It might be crazy buuuuuuuut Silv is involved here and Silv has done crazier.

    Wille-Harlia - Willie oh Willie howst you manage to fly under the radar. Howst you manage to get buy undetected by nearly every player...nearly. It was noted that Willie is usually a more chatty player they've made 3 posts. These posts themselves are intriguingly illuminating to me. Especially their reads list where their scum reads were me, Vro and Gerrick only. I find this...odd. I find their silence odd. Silence in the face even of someone constantly calling them out. Now they've posted a few times so they wouldn't be on a mod kill chopping block but I actually am on board with the kill Willie see what he flips train of thought from Vro here. Scum.

    Wintermoot - has been cleared iirc so town. Cleared by Sapph so I guess it depends if you trust Sapph I do.

    Wischland - Actually now I'm thinking a different train of thought. Wisch has been active and labeled as a helpful townie by so many so I've been letting it slip by but...Wisch hasn't been helpful. D1 they gave some reads into the 10ki playstyle useful but not really something town specific. They've done reads lists that just seemed to be mimics of other reads lists but my concern grows as we look at their vote style. EoD D1 votes Daws wagon. Explained after EoD an explanation that was lacking IMHO. D2 votes Michi late into the phase at a time when the wagons were still near a tie Michi at 6 Vro at 5.

    Wisch and Vro have been protecting each other like crazy in the way they've posted about each other but it's been light enough that its not noticeable enough for most people to even group them together. I'm more convinced that Wisch is evil than anyone else right now

    Vote: Wischland

    And a thought process thru this. I didn't edit things as my reads progressed cause I'm at work so I need to finish this fast.

    Kill wisch if their evil kill Vro. If they aren't kill Willie.
    After that I dunno.

    Okay, so I read through everyone's ISOs, and based on it, have compiled a reads list as follows. Also a note on PoEs. It stands for Process of Elimination, and the idea is that you work your way up the list when deciding who to lynch. Interesting conclusion, too: It does seem like there might be lurking Wolves, just by the sheer number of null reads. I am also counting 637 votes, here, which differs from the thread's count of 695, which worries me. If you see I've missed anyone, please let me know. I also thought I'd include post counts, as best as I can see them with that print page trick Gerrick mentioned, and include percentages of the game's posts they've contributed.

    Lock Town:

    BraveSirRobin (8, 1,26%)
    Dawsinian (10, 1,57%)
    Laurentus (229, 35,95%)

    Town Core:

    Doc (8, 1,26%) - Not afraid to stick to his guns about the Michi vote, not overly mouthy like I would expect from Scum-Doc. Potential soft-spot for new players which could prove to be a mistake. Generally quite quiet as Town, and tries to drown out all hints and clues with sheer info and chaff when scum. Seems to be on Town meta. None can say he hasn't been looking for scum.

    Gerrick (26, 4,08%) - Has had an unusually tough time of it this game. Usually gets by by lurking and observing, and making data-based reads rather than gut-reads. Usually dies quite early, too, if memory serves, so would have been a prime kill target on N1, yet didn't die. I am really struggling to make any other reads on him. He has told me before that I am always his N1 scan choice as Seer, because I lead the discussion and drive the activity, so it does make sense that he would want to save me from a potential D1 lynch. I am a bit surprised about the target he ended up choosing to make things equal and give me a better chance of surviving the D1 lynch, though. I am a bit conflicted about his reads on Vro, especially early on, because to me, it seemed there was a clear wolfiness to them. At the end of the day, I have mechanical reason to place him in my Core, but will have to continuously reevaluate. Personally, I find that he's willing to go against the grain of people's opinions about TGN and turtle to be a good sign that this is Town-Gerrick. Is actively hunting scum now that his neck's no longer on the line, too.

    Hapi (93, 14,60%) - It's fucking Hapi. She drives me insane, she's chaotic, and she lies. She's Also Town Core until Sapph says otherwise.

    Sapphiron (43, 6,75%)- Razor sharp reasoning, critical of most everyone's posts, not actively pushing an agenda like I would expect from scum-Sapph (like with poor old Syraj back in the day). Also definitely not falling into lurky Wolf-meta. One of the people I trust the most.

    Wintermoot (18, 2,83%)- If Sapph says he's Town, then I am inclined to trust until given reason not to.

    Town Leans:

    Dawcreek/Minish (13, 2,04%) - Dawcreek never posted, but his sub, Minish, can be characterised as hard-working, logical, analytical. Actively hunting scum. Currently seems to be leaning towards Vro being scum, could provide me with an interesting perspective to that.

    turtle (13, 2,04%) - Actually willing to call me out, which will always earn you some town-cred from me. I am actually town-leaning, which might make people raise their eyebrows, but his lurking feels more genuinely lost and confused, as opposed to TGN's. His admission that he doesn't know also came much later, but gonna have to agree with Gerrick here, if I were a Wolf, I would most-def have told both him and TGN to play up the innocent child schtick.

    Wischland (19, 2,98%) - I would like to place him as Core, just because of how wonderfully clear his thought process is, and generally being a very enjoyable player to play with, but that vote on Daws was… not great. Would like to see him post more often.


    Nulls:

    Eastern New England (2, 0,31%) - Has said 2 things. Need to pressurise and see how they respond.

    Flying Eagles (18, 2,83%) - His wariness of me is probably understandable, and amusingly enough actually potentially a sign of not being in the scum-chat, because if there are Wolves who know me, then they would probably have filled him in on my general play style. I don't like that he doesn't actively seem to be hunting scum, even though he's got 18 posts, which is actually a lot when so many players are so inactive. So one slightly scummy thing and one slightly townie thing puts him in my nulls.

    HumanSanity (3, 0,47%) - Claims to be busy, no reason to speculate otherwise. Has not contributed anything while here, though.

    ogunbiyi6422 (6, 0,94%) - Unclear how much WW/Mafia he's played (actually not so unclear anymore, just wasn't clear when I made this note), but not voting in the first round is almost always a bad call. NAI, but not liking it. REALLY not liking his 3rd post of the game, where he votes for Michi, in what seems like the path of least resistance. Defends himself against Wisch's reads list by referring back to his 3rd post, and says "if that doesn't tell you 'town lean' then I don't know what to tell you." Is that even a serious defense? Was the only person to call my late-phase vote switch onto Vro as sus. Gotta respect him for that. Still, too much lurking, and when posting, not doing so for good reasons, most of the time. Into nulls you go.

    Wille-Harlia (3, 0,47%) - The dreaded Wille-Harlia. Who's made 3 very uncontroversial posts, and one of them I actually found very illuminating to make sense of their fellow XKIers' tendencies. So I am incredibly confused why Vro wants to off them, rather than someone like ogunbiyi or Human Sanity. All the reasons he gave for Willie equally apply to all the quiet/busy players in the game.

    Scum leans:

    TGN (26, 4,08%)- It's hard to make a judgment when he's so new to this, but I just really don't like his play-style. I kinda get the gut-feeling that he's been given the scum role in his first ever game (and if this is the case, yeah, I would honestly have preferred that his alignment be changed post-rand, like I'll sometimes do for certain players as host), and has no idea how to play the part of a townie, so he's just looking busy. I also don't like that so many people are just going to give him a free-pass by virtue of being so new and young. Like, sorry, I'm probably a monster, but that just doesn't sit well with me.

    Scum:

    Vroendal (79, 12,40%) - Seemed lazer-focused on me from the word go. I can and should be questioned, but I am honestly still feeling like there was an ulterior motive to it. This lazer-focus can be seen the moment he asks Sapph what Sapph's opinion is of me at this very moment. I don't think this was likely to be random at all. Equally valid people to ask would have been Pengu (who knows my meta better than just about anyone), Doc or even Wintermoot. Why go straight for the person I would characterise as my arch-nemesis in Werewolf? (BTW, Sapph, no offence meant <3). This lazer-focus is also in clear view when he later probes me about what I had said once in a previous game about Gerrick's lurking. His thought-progression is riddled with contradictions when it comes to Hapi, and he doesn't showcase his progression to finding me sus at all, beyond not liking how easily I take over the thread and "how much I talk". When not lazer-focusing on me, his posts lack substance almost completely. Caused the Daws lynch at the end of the day phase but in his defence, probably not *that* sus as far as reasons go, but definitely when it comes to timing. His interrogation of Moot feels breathtakingly weak looking back. He doesn't actually address much of it to Moot, and seems desperate to move on from the topic of TGN's supposed purity, citing Doc's defense as iron-clad (you can bet how this makes me feel about TGN's status right now). Immediately starts peddling the theory after the Daws mislynch that the wolves are among the lurkers, which supports Gerrick's observation. As soon as D2 starts and Daws comes back, he begins throwing shade at me again. His first reads list does not contain any reasons for his leanings (yeah, upon reflection, that's super dodge). He also did not react well to me propping up two of my scumspects as not only town leans, but Town Core, of all things. And by "did not react well", I mean there was literally no reaction. Instead he cases me for the previous day's Daws lynch. Bit of an odd choice to find me suspicious for that, when I just did something to wildly strange. I could go on in a similar vein from here, but at this point, I am starting to think I'm just lazer-focusing on him because he lazer-focused me, and I can't be objective.

    So with all that out of the way: Vote: Vroendal

    This is the best read of me I've ever seen.

    Also everyone, based on game mechanics, I can lock-confirm Lau is good.  Not sure if that helps people generally, but good to know either way.

    @Minish, basically something happened between me and BSR on N1, and I've had him in my core ever since.


    Got it.


    If anyone else is actually Aragorn I'm gonna be pretty upset with you for not "countering" Hapi. So I'm gonna put Hapi in the town group for now.


    If you trust me Laur (and if I ever flip that will just make this more trustworthy), we never lynch from this group and then PoE from the rest.


    Town
    Me
    Laur
    Daws
    Turtle
    BSR
    Hapi




    Other
    Doc
    Eastern New England
    Flying Eagles
    Gerrick
    HumanSanity
    ogunbiyi6422
    Sapphiron
    The Greenlandic North
    Vroendal
    Wille-Harlia
    Wintermoot
    Wischland



    If anyone has invest roles, anyone in this group is a good target.


     >:D


    Okay last notes to make here. Has Daws been cleared or are we still assuming he's good cause he was rezzed and it said he was town at time of death? I'm still not convinced. Daws has also largely disappeared.
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  • Generally, when games hit the "fuck it, let's lynch the inactives" phase, my gut reaction is that I'm misreading some folks as Town when they are in fact scum.

    I don't know, I'm getting frustrated by our lack of progress. I honestly wish a night kill will happen, so that we can have night kill analysis, as lame as that tends to be itself.

    I'm usually wary of the people who suggest lynching inactives because it's a super easy qay for scum to get mislynches. But I also know that a lot of townies also just have a policy of lynching inactives which makes it difficult to read someone for it.


    I'm not feeling so sure about Vro anymore. But like, I feel he's the best mechanical lynch.

    Not sure where to go this day. I hate lynching inactives, especially if they're just gonna get modkilled anyways.

    Again, I would like reasoning. Did you get back to checking that old Spongebob game? What's he doing that's making you doubt? If it's "no Wolf sounds this genuine, ever" then yeah, welcome to the last 3 day phases of my life.

    It's not super sound reasoning, but I do feel some genuineness from him. That's not to say that can't come from scum, but part of it is how upset he sounds at the situation he is in, but he's still trying to be helpful. Which I know is a lot harder to do in a scum position.

    Also, I thought I might have had a small hunch based on something he said earlier and that's why I asked him his targets. However that must have been wrong, but his answer is making me second guess. It would be risky for scum to claim no targets with a potential role like a tracker. But also, I feel like he could just be vanilla (and I have slight reason to believe this is possible) or that he really just has an unhelpful role.



    I also just had a thought. If Merry or Pippin ever flip then we should maybe pay close attention to their reads. I feel like there would be a decent chance they know who each other is.
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  • Oh Doc replied while I was writing that.

    Oh look Hapi did a serious post without b.s. what???? Okay I gotta go work <3
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  • Okay last notes to make here. Has Daws been cleared or are we still assuming he's good cause he was rezzed and it said he was town at time of death? I'm still not convinced. Daws has also largely disappeared.

    I don't even know how I can make this clearer. Yes. Daws is Town. Stop worrying.
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  • I'm still not convinced Dawsinian is town, but for the sake of making a more manageable scum list for now, I'll consider Daws town.

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  • One thing that is *really* bothering me is that, if my estimation of this game is correct and we have 14 Town, 2 unaligned and 4 scum, then scum is thoroughly in the shit if this is a vanilla scum setup. We have every reason to assume they have more abilities at their disposal than simply the night kill, so where be the bodies? We should be dropping like flies.
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