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Okay, no, actually it makes perfect sense, I just wasn't jailed like I thought, I just wasn't targeted.

No, actually, it still doesn't make sense. You clearly thought you could protect me like this, so the question stands, Mones, haha.

Town Core
Daws, Hapi, Moot

Town Lean
Lau, Wischland, Doc
By virtue of trusting you Lau, I will put BSR and Gerrick here temporarily

Null
ENE, Flying Eagles, HumanSanity, Wille-Harlia, Turtle, Ogun, TGN, Minish

Scum Lean:
Vroendal (Currently unconvinced by his defence of the past 2 days)

Interesting. Is Vro as a result of mechanics, or Moot?

So, roles. This one I'm gonna have to chalk up to first-time hosting. I really didn't think about it being an issue, and didn't really clarify because of it. It started out as characters who had roles (example: Theoden is a roleblocker), but then as the game became more complex and roles were added that weren't defined (afaik) roles, I changed it so that the characters were the roles (example: Dawsinian has the role of Theoden), and then each role had an ability (example: the Theoden role has the ability to block night actions, there is technically no roleblocker role, if that makes sense). This is why I put "roleblocker" in quotations when Dawsianian had died. He's technically not a roleblocker, but the action is literally the same, and I added the roleblocker definition as people needed a straightforward definition of roles that were/will be lost. Other complex roles will manifest themselves in other ways, so to speak. I don't know if this is understandable at all, but yeah that's what went on in my head when Ruguo and I were planning. Because of this confusion, there likely will be no enforcement of character (role) hinting, so don't assume anything based on this post or my enforcement or non-enforcement of the rule.

Yes, Dawsinian is a roleblocker, not a Jailer. Their roleblock ability does not include any kind of defense capability. I think I know where the confusion is from, though.

Ah, gotcha. Okay, Daws, please don't roleblock me again.

And I see we've come back around to Vro in the scum lists. The thing is, his tone just sounds so pure, but his actions are telling a different story.

@Minish, you actually offer the chance to give a perspective I have been lacking on Vro so far, since he started playing over in ZD (and I don't know if he's played on Bulba, either). Could Wolf-Vro pull this off?

For reference, I will link to another game where he was Wolf where I placed him much more easily, but that was a while ago and I am sure he would have become a lot better by now: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6575.0

I would honestly also be very concerned about me if I were him, because my usual Town MO is that I go in and go in hard, never quitting until my target for the day gets lynched. I would honestly characterise my voting patterns yesterday much closer to my scum meta, and it raises my eyes that it wasn't seen in that light.

I really think many of the wolves are just playing quieter and we need to focus on the players who are barely here like Doc, Moot ect.

I really think many of the wolves are just playing quieter and we need to focus on the players who are barely here like Doc, Moot ect.

Fair enough. I'm going to point out that if Sapph says Moot is Town, I believe him. That said, why Doc and Moot?

Moot is Mechanic

Alright, so it could track that you think she's doing a repeat here, but I'm having severe issues with your certainty. To me, it seems like the logical next step to an established pattern of behaviour would be to use it to the benefit of scum, as well, particularly if, by doing so, she can make players like you unquestionably accept her as Town, to the point of being 100% certain. That almost seems like too much information, in fact. It also seems uncharacteristic for someone as sharp as you to not consider the clear scum-benefits this could accrue if used correctly.

It's a sharp observation that Wolf-me would want to do this as a tactic not to be scanned N1, for once, but that also seems rather lazer focused. I don't recall you showing much of an interest in any scumspects besides Gerrick, up to this point, and Gerrick can be considered rather low-hanging fruit. You have not appeared overtly solvey, and based on your interaction with Sapph, I am beginning to suspect that you have been waiting to try and see if you can case me. Not taking into consideration that I do not have that much knowledge of Hapi as you do is equally eye-raising.

My certainty as you put it is not based only on the factors of possibility I personally observe, but rather a combination of that, my gut reads, and the direction the game is taking. I may also say that if more information comes up that I find relevant I may refute my certainty. I'm not telling you or anyone else to think of her as clear, this is just my own personal opinion. That being said I do feel that scanning her is a rather bad choice for tonight and felt the need to state that. Ofc I have considered that she is pulling one over on me/us, I even mentioned that she could be purposefully misleading us, but that is just not clicking true in my head right now. I see what you mean about using it for the benefit of scum for sure, but I'm not seeing it yet. As of what is characteristic for me, I don't think that's a very strong base anyway for determining my alignment, I'm still finding my own playstyle, not having much experience.

I would think you would understand why I would be lazar-focused on you. You've been very active and have talked a lot, and I find myself growing increasingly wary of people in the position of taking over the town, justifiably so. I also consider that you may be using your position as the experienced player to appear townie to our newcomers as well. Setting yourself up as the (idk really what I mean here but I know what I see dang it) spokesperson they should talk to puts a lot of authority on yourself and could be used to farther the goals of scum should you be one. I mentioned that I town-read you earlier, that does not mean you still can't be wolf. Just because I've been using Gerrick publicly does not mean I'm not sussing anyone else, it just means he's the one I'm most comfortable pushing right now. Ofc I've been trying to case you, you set yourself up in a very strong position from D1. I don't know exactly what you mean by solvey. I don't understand what part of it is eye-raising specifically, could you please elaborate?

Basically Lau, I have my own opinions on the players and the actions they've taken, and I'm using my own logic and knowledge to justify it as far I as feel comfortable doing so. I don't expect people to follow me, I want them to follow themselves (preferably in the direction I'm going but that's just my bias :p). I reserve the right to let my own opinions to influence what I say and the actions I take. There's probably more I could say but I've already written a lot and I don't want to wax on about this.

It's not just a play-style thing, it's a question of competence. You are competent enough and, I would imagine, realistic enough to see the clear red flags of placing your faith so fully in Hapi. You're also being extraordinarily evasive about what makes you this certain. Just saying "my gut" and "the direction of the game" is not showing me your progression, and the irony is not lost on me that I'm calling you out for said evasive ess, either. Unfortunately for players like you, once you have shown yourself to be have that much potential, any logical inconsistency or irrational move you make will scream sus to me. And there is a clear contradiction in your thought-patterns here, as well. If you considered that she's pulling one over on us, you cannot simultaneously be completely certain. Especially if you don't show me the progression about how you got from "yeah, this is potentially a bit screwy" to "bruh, you're about to waste a night power and also how dare you try and be evasive again." I would also like to point out that I became ever so slightly concerned about her possibility to false-claim exactly because of your post mentioning the possibility of a ploy.

As for why your point about being laser-focused and justifiably so, again, there is a clear lack of progression in how you got to this. You stated very early on that this is just my usual MO, so I don't understand why you'd focus on that more than so much else happening right now. Certainly, I can have a devastating impact on the game if I am a Wolf and have positioned myself as Town leader, but worrying about this to the exclusion of all else is damaging to Town, because 1) It would absolutely be in the Wolves' best interest to remove said Town leader, especially in a game where there are so many new players who would just faff about aimlessly if not provided with direction, and 2) you are not getting any useful insights from any other players. "You have been very active and talked a lot" is also not exactly the best reason to be wary. What has the content of my posts been? Can you case those? (Yes, I know you're going to focus on the "Lau is evading the night scan!" angle, and yes, that's valid and I'm quite impressed by it, but you are not getting a free pass by virtue of only one thing you've finally been able to nail me with).

The part that was eye-raising is that your own experience with Hapi clearly played a big role in your alleged certainty in her Town status, and the truthfulness of her claim (I've already shown the inconsistency of your thought process and progression to this, so that's not what I'm focusing on now), yet you didn't consider that I was not a witness to those past actions myself, and then jumped straight to casing me about it instead of filling me in on the context that I was clearly sorely in need of.

Your last paragraph is basically just reiterating a point you already made in your first paragraph, and is a conclusion that I don't see as necessary, either, because I didn't accuse you of trying to sway people's votes or opinions in the first place.

So I'm stuck in a predicament. Do I try and get you voted off already, because you have now become my own main scumspect, but also risk losing a damn essential player if you are actually misguided Town, or do I keep you around with the risk that you just laser-focus on me the whole damn game and we derail the whole thread with our bickering?

And I am still stuck with this paranoia. *Face-palm*

I really think many of the wolves are just playing quieter and we need to focus on the players who are barely here like Doc, Moot ect.

Fair enough. I'm going to point out that if Sapph says Moot is Town, I believe him. That said, why Doc and Moot?

Cause they've just mysteriously disappeared as we've eaten each other. I do trust Sapph though so my mistake there.

That said if we wagon Vro I'm on board cause I donut trust at this point.

Hmm, @Sapph, would you say Vro's scum cred with you is also somewhat influenced by your new-found belief in Moot's innocence?