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nvm

Are you saying that you wish to unvote Gerrick? If so please specify in bold just to make it easier for Red.
If not, what is "nvm" about?

I said "Does my vote not count" then I realized @Gerrick said it so I put NVM

Thanks for the notice.

The current vote count is:

Michi - 5 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi)
Vroendal - 4 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick, Hapi)
Gerrick - 2 (Wille-Harlia, TGN)

I could give you the short version, but I could also let you read through the whole mess again yourself, and see what you have to say. Start here and end here.

Not really sure what this is supposed to mean. I've already read it twice. I can only assume that I've missed something you've caught onto to, in which case I doubt reading it again will do me any good.

Did you read my most previous post, I think I clarified everything as I went through over 20 pages of text, this is my second time playing but I think you should read my post above, if that isn't town lean, I don't know what to tell you

At the time that I had made my rough list, no, you had posted while I was typing. I will take your post into consideration as I keep thinking about everything.

I could give you the short version, but I could also let you read through the whole mess again yourself, and see what you have to say. Start here and end here.

Not really sure what this is supposed to mean. I've already read it twice. I can only assume that I've missed something you've caught onto to, in which case I doubt reading it again will do me any good.

Did you read my most previous post, I think I clarified everything as I went through over 20 pages of text, this is my second time playing but I think you should read my post above, if that isn't town lean, I don't know what to tell you

At the time that I had made my rough list, no, you had posted while I was typing. I will take your post into consideration as I keep thinking about everything.

I am never going to speculate on people's roles openly, but Hapi claimed to have mechanical reason to believe Michi is innocent, and would rather have killed Gerrick. I have mechanical reason to believe Gerrick is innocent, though. It became a question of who's is stronger. When Hapi pulled the ultimatum that he was so sure of Michi's innocence and Gerrick's guilt that she'd be willing to sacrifice herself, I had to figure out if Hapi's mechanical reason was stronger than mine. The only way to test that would have been to vote Gerrick off.

I'll say it upfront: there is probably a 1/3 chance that Gerrick is innocent if this game has a typical setup of Town roles. There is just no good way to test it.

I probably can't look at the situation objectively here, and the fact that so many people have Gerrick as a scum lean is definitely worrying me, but Michi's willingness to go along with our speculation that they're mechanically tied with Hapi for most of the round early on makes me uncomfortable.

Also @Gerrick, I am rather surprised you're openly speculating about Hapi's role openly. That is distinct anti-town behaviour.

What if I only care about one person and my whole life goal has been dedicated to their survival 

Also this. I know it's Hapi, and Hapi lies, but this screams a win-condition link between Michi and Hapi.

Come to think, we're doing this wrong.

We should probably leave both Michi and Gerrick alive and let the Seer do their work.

What other lynches are there to consider?

Come to think, we're doing this wrong.

We should probably leave both Michi and Gerrick alive and let the Seer do their work.

What other lynches are there to consider?

You know what I'm gonna say. :p Willie for my aforementioned reasons. Weak though they may be, they're the best I'm getting out of all this.
Another possible option might be Moot, though I would much prefer to have had more time to discuss that, and to hear from him. We have roughly 12 hours left.
The last option is still me should you wish to go for it and consider it the best choice, I wouldn't be mad, just very disappointed.

I probably can't look at the situation objectively here, and the fact that so many people have Gerrick as a scum lean is definitely worrying me, but Michi's willingness to go along with our speculation that they're mechanically tied with Hapi for most of the round early on makes me uncomfortable.

You know how much I dislike when you put words in my mouth.

Not only have I never stated that I'm willing to go along with your speculation that Hapi and I are mechanically tied together, but I've actually said that we're not.

I don't have nor need a partner though, I'm just fine on my own.  But you do what you must I suppose, and I respect that choice.

Who cares what you say? You're nothing.  You're so much nothing that people actually believe you're actually with someone because you can't do anything on your own!

Actually I've said it twice, and I'll say it again: No, I'm not linked/tied to anyone in any way whatsoever, so please stop saying that I'm "willing to go along with it" when I've said nothing of the sort outside of dual-voicing some of my posts.

I probably can't look at the situation objectively here, and the fact that so many people have Gerrick as a scum lean is definitely worrying me, but Michi's willingness to go along with our speculation that they're mechanically tied with Hapi for most of the round early on makes me uncomfortable.

You know how much I dislike when you put words in my mouth.

Not only have I never stated that I'm willing to go along with your speculation that Hapi and I are mechanically tied together, but I've actually said that we're not.

I don't have nor need a partner though, I'm just fine on my own.  But you do what you must I suppose, and I respect that choice.

Who cares what you say? You're nothing.  You're so much nothing that people actually believe you're actually with someone because you can't do anything on your own!

Actually I've said it twice, and I'll say it again: No, I'm not linked/tied to anyone in any way whatsoever, so please stop saying that I'm "willing to go along with it" when I've said nothing of the sort outside of dual-voicing some of my posts.

How exactly to you explain Sapph's certainty that Hapi is Town?

That first quote you're mentioning was well after we began speculating that your roles were tied.

As to your second quote, I would think that if someone were falsely claiming to be linked with you, you would make it much clearer to everyone that Hapi was straight up lying than a cryptic RP post.

Also @Gerrick, I am rather surprised you're openly speculating about Hapi's role openly. That is distinct anti-town behaviour.

I'm not speculating what Hapi's role is, just that she has a role. How else would she mechanically know someone's alignment?

How exactly to you explain Sapph's certainty that Hapi is Town?

That first quote you're mentioning was well after we began speculating that your roles were tied.

As to your second quote, I would think that if someone were falsely claiming to be linked with you, you would make it much clearer to everyone that Hapi was straight up lying than a cryptic RP post.

Hapi hasn't claimed to be tied to Michi, just to someone AFAIK. She just claims that she mechanically knows he's not scum (which I'm not certain of). It's still possible that she is Town in this situation. It's possible that she does not have contact with the player she's tied to, but if that player dies then she does.

Michi - 5 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi)
Vroendal - 4 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick, Hapi)
Gerrick - 1 (Wille-Harlia)

Perhaps against my better judgment... I have a second vote against me from TGN.

---

Yeah, I'm not really buying the whole Hapi/Michi are Smeagol/Gollum thing. I'm thinking Hapi defended Michi (or some other action) last night phase, and she's saying she's certain Michi is not scum because there was no wolf kill. Her justification is very shaky -- just as her justification was against me earlier... -- so I'm going to say just because Hapi is likely town does not in any way mean Michi is. I'm guessing he is an unaligned Smeagol/Gollum if we are to take his character hints as true. If that is the case, it might be a waste to lynch him, although I'm by no means against him getting lynched. If there is a possible upside to his role, there is just as likely a possible downside.

At the risk of drawing more attention to the point, Gerrick, I would characterise that as speculation.

Okay, I'm going to have to trust my gut here to an extent, even though it could come back to bite me. Gerrick is Town. In that Star Wars-inspired one that Pengu hosted around the end of 2018, his Wolf behaviour was a lot more defensive and never-give-up than what I witnessed yesterday, when the possibility came out that we were going to lynch him at Hapi's urging.

So, roles. This one I'm gonna have to chalk up to first-time hosting. I really didn't think about it being an issue, and didn't really clarify because of it. It started out as characters who had roles (example: Theoden is a roleblocker), but then as the game became more complex and roles were added that weren't defined (afaik) roles, I changed it so that the characters were the roles (example: Dawsinian has the role of Theoden), and then each role had an ability (example: the Theoden role has the ability to block night actions, there is technically no roleblocker role, if that makes sense). This is why I put "roleblocker" in quotations when Dawsianian had died. He's technically not a roleblocker, but the action is literally the same, and I added the roleblocker definition as people needed a straightforward definition of roles that were/will be lost. Other complex roles will manifest themselves in other ways, so to speak. I don't know if this is understandable at all, but yeah that's what went on in my head when Ruguo and I were planning. Because of this confusion, there likely will be no enforcement of character (role) hinting, so don't assume anything based on this post or my enforcement or non-enforcement of the rule.

Okay, so there is a strategy that we could actually employ here to make this a guaranteed win for Town: I could demand everyone to hint at their roles, and whoever isn't fellowship would just lose. Duplicates would lose pretty quickly, too, because then our process of elimination is just going to be for 8 people, instead of 20.

Since that is no fun, I will urge everyone not to do this, and stick to the original stipulation of "don't hint at roles."

I don't know what to make of this round, to be honest. I think for me personally the issue is that there's a few players that are so active that they're drowning everyone else out, and I also think that's why it feels to some like they didn't hear enough from me before. But the round has largely revolved around their posts, so I'll start there.

Vroendal
Vro was the person that pushed Dawsinian out of a tie and into a lynch last round, and seems to have a thing for casting suspicion on a lot of people...for which he's been defending himself for most of the round. He says he did it because he felt Daws was more suspicious than than Laurentus or Michi...he could be a villager that honestly feels that way. To be fair, I also felt at the time that Daws was more suspicious along with Sapphiron. On the other hand, he could be a wolf that was looking to protect either Laurentus or Michi, the latter of whom is now under suspicion of being a wolf.

But at this point I don't think I can vote for someone based solely on their actions on the first day. I think at that point we were all grasping at straws. If Michi turns out to be a wolf, then perhaps I will keep the fact that Vro protected him in mind, but for now he just looks who has a tendency to make himself look suspicious.

Hapi
Hapi seems more into sowing chaos into the game than helping one side or the other, to the point that it looks like Gerrick has implied that lynching her would be good for the town regardless of which side she's on. She's strongly and consistently going out of her way to defend Michi, and to a lesser extent throwing suspicion at Gerrick.

More recent posts have called into question why that is, and while Sapphiron is confident that Hapi is town, I'm not sure what inspires that confidence. Even if the roles people assume they have are correct, which seems to be speculation based on Hapi's own implication (didn't everyone think she was Aragorn yesterday?), why couldn't Hapi be wolf-aligned and Michi be town-aligned? And if this is all true, where was Hapi during the period Michi was either in the lead or tied yesterday? Making a lone vote for Doc, it seems.

At this point, I'm not sure whether considering her posts does more good than harm.

Laurentus
Laurentus believes Gerrick is town, but would apparently still lynch him anyways if it would yield information. Even before the idea that Michi may be a wolf role tied to Hapi, Laurentus voted for him as a second wagon apparently for "wagonomics" (before changing his vote to Gerrick, then back to Michi). I'm concerned by his apparent willingness to sacrifice people for game mechanics, including someone he believes strongly enough to be town to defend. However, this may just be a more cutthroat playstyle adopted from playing games at Mafia Universe. He seems to be doing his utmost to figure things out, but as I implied to Flying Eagles yesterday, it's hard to tell if this is for good or for evil. An excellent player, either way.

Michi
Since he's up for a vote, I'll mention my thoughts on him too...to be honest, I'm not sure what makes him so suspicious to people, other than that people believe he's the wolf yin to Hapi's yang (that seems to be what started the bandwagon at least), he weak reasoning for voting for Vro, and the fact that he hasn't been as active as some people think he would be if he was town. His weak, confident yet not really confident vote for Vro is probably the most suspicious thing, and if push came to shove I feel he's more suspicious than Vro at this point...but I don't understand why those who have voted for him feel so confident about it. It makes me wonder if I've missed something.

In any case, I'll also mention that I believe turtle and TGN to be town...being new players, they would probably be better guided by their teammates if they were wolves. I think TGN is playing the game the best he can, and I think the fact that he's trying to put the time and thought to read all these posts and contribute to the game as a new, young player is very commendable. I like that he's willing to put himself out there and isn't afraid of looking bad. I also consider Daws town unless it's proven otherwise, if only because I think that's the more likely than him being revived as a wolf and maybe because I'm desperate to simplify the game somehow.

In any case, I'll read what happens when I wake up and then cast a vote. Even though we're reaching the end of the day, the situation still seems pretty fluid, and these are just my thoughts right now after spending my entire night going through this stuff. v_v

I don't know what to make of this round, to be honest. I think for me personally the issue is that there's a few players that are so active that they're drowning everyone else out, and I also think that's why it feels to some like they didn't hear enough from me before. But the round has largely revolved around their posts, so I'll start there.

Vroendal
Vro was the person that pushed Dawsinian out of a tie and into a lynch last round, and seems to have a thing for casting suspicion on a lot of people...for which he's been defending himself for most of the round. He says he did it because he felt Daws was more suspicious than than Laurentus or Michi...he could be a villager that honestly feels that way. To be fair, I also felt at the time that Daws was more suspicious along with Sapphiron. On the other hand, he could be a wolf that was looking to protect either Laurentus or Michi, the latter of whom is now under suspicion of being a wolf.

But at this point I don't think I can vote for someone based solely on their actions on the first day. I think at that point we were all grasping at straws. If Michi turns out to be a wolf, then perhaps I will keep the fact that Vro protected him in mind, but for now he just looks who has a tendency to make himself look suspicious.

Hapi
Hapi seems more into sowing chaos into the game than helping one side or the other, to the point that it looks like Gerrick has implied that lynching her would be good for the town regardless of which side she's on. She's strongly and consistently going out of her way to defend Michi, and to a lesser extent throwing suspicion at Gerrick.

More recent posts have called into question why that is, and while Sapphiron is confident that Hapi is town, I'm not sure what inspires that confidence. Even if the roles people assume they have are correct, which seems to be speculation based on Hapi's own implication (didn't everyone think she was Aragorn yesterday?), why couldn't Hapi be wolf-aligned and Michi be town-aligned? And if this is all true, where was Hapi during the period Michi was either in the lead or tied yesterday? Making a lone vote for Doc, it seems.

At this point, I'm not sure whether considering her posts does more good than harm.

Laurentus
Laurentus believes Gerrick is town, but would apparently still lynch him anyways if it would yield information. Even before the idea that Michi may be a wolf role tied to Hapi, Laurentus voted for him as a second wagon apparently for "wagonomics" (before changing his vote to Gerrick, then back to Michi). I'm concerned by his apparent willingness to sacrifice people for game mechanics, including someone he believes strongly enough to be town to defend. However, this may just be a more cutthroat playstyle adopted from playing games at Mafia Universe. He seems to be doing his utmost to figure things out, but as I implied to Flying Eagles yesterday, it's hard to tell if this is for good or for evil. An excellent player, either way.

Michi
Since he's up for a vote, I'll mention my thoughts on him too...to be honest, I'm not sure what makes him so suspicious to people, other than that people believe he's the wolf yin to Hapi's yang (that seems to be what started the bandwagon at least), he weak reasoning for voting for Vro, and the fact that he hasn't been as active as some people think he would be if he was town. His weak, confident yet not really confident vote for Vro is probably the most suspicious thing, and if push came to shove I feel he's more suspicious than Vro at this point...but I don't understand why those who have voted for him feel so confident about it. It makes me wonder if I've missed something.

In any case, I'll also mention that I believe turtle and TGN to be town...being new players, they would probably be better guided by their teammates if they were wolves. I think TGN is playing the game the best he can, and I think the fact that he's trying to put the time and thought to read all these posts and contribute to the game as a new, young player is very commendable. I like that he's willing to put himself out there and isn't afraid of looking bad. I also consider Daws town unless it's proven otherwise, if only because I think that's the more likely than him being revived as a wolf and maybe because I'm desperate to simplify the game somehow.

In any case, I'll read what happens when I wake up and then cast a vote. Even though we're reaching the end of the day, the situation still seems pretty fluid, and these are just my thoughts right now after spending my entire night going through this stuff. v_v

Hmm, I find it interesting that you have not provided your take on Gerrick. I'm actually struggling to read him this game.