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Those that are using the development skin should be see some changes that I've made to the forum listing. My goal was to reduce the amount of space needed to present each forum by removing unnecessary elements, with the goal of eventually being able to add more main forums to the list. Specifically, I...

Removed the forum description/stats
I think the description that follows the name of the forum gives a general idea of what each forum is for. I also removed the stats because for most people it isn't a consideration of whether to view the forum or not.

Reduced the Last Post column from three lines to two lines
I did this by merging the time the last post was made with the name of the last poster, and changing the last post time from a specific date to a relative date ("5 days ago" instead of "07/03/2020 12:34PM").

Added the Last Poster Avatar
Ok, this wasn't really needed to reach my goal, but in working with the code I saw there was already stuff for displaying it, and I thought it was just kinda cool to have a little bit of colour and personality on the page.

Because these changes are tentative, they are not necessarily optimized for mobile, but I wanted to know what you guys thought of the design before I put anymore work into it. If you have any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, or anything else about what I'm doing, I would sure appreciate them.

To see these changes in action, you need to switch to the development theme. To do so:

1) In your menu (the one at the top right with your username), select Old User CP.

2) Under Modify Profile, select Look and Layout.

3) Beside Current Theme, hit the change link.

4) Scroll down to winter-dev and hit the [Use this theme] link!

Cool changes, though I do still have some thoughts.

Removed the forum description/stats
I think the description that follows the name of the forum gives a general idea of what each forum is for. I also removed the stats because for most people it isn't a consideration of whether to view the forum or not.

I feel like the longer descriptions are still helpful for understanding what each subforum is. The subtitles help, but I don't think it's necessarily self-explanatory.

Reduced the Last Post column from three lines to two lines
I did this by merging the time the last post was made with the name of the last poster, and changing the last post time from a specific date to a relative date ("5 days ago" instead of "07/03/2020 12:34PM").

Neat, though I don't like how that makes the front page inconsistent with how things are displayed on the entire rest of the forums.

Added the Last Poster Avatar
Ok, this wasn't really needed to reach my goal, but in working with the code I saw there was already stuff for displaying it, and I thought it was just kinda cool to have a little bit of colour and personality on the page.

Wasn't this removed the first time you tried this because it didn't seem to work?

Sorry for most of these thoughts being negative or quasi-negative, do know that I don't feel that strongly about any of these.

Truthfully, I don't like the addition of the avatars. I like the other changes, though. I actually prefer it without the stats and description.

@taulover: Don't worry about it, I always respect your input on these things.

I'm not sure the longer descriptions really helped, because we still have a lot of people who don't know what some of the forums are, especially government forums. I'm wondering if it would be helpful to have a longer space inside each forum page that could be used to give much longer descriptions and links. We could also improve the subtitles if that would help.

Which do you like better...what's on the front page now or what's on the entire rest of the forums?

I don't remember trying to make the avatars work before, but in this case it was more making them look good while keeping the last post information centered in its column that took some work. It was hard to do that without pushing the information out of the books, or having the avatar cramped on (or even over) the text, or having it break up into another line. That may have been the issue my younger self ran into, but I don't remember specifically.

@Red Mones: I think what I like about it is that it kinda pops...it stands out, gives the page some style, and makes it so it isn't just a bunch of text. What is it specifically that you don't like about the avatars?

I like the changes. Makes the front page seem simpler and sleeker.

Don't know if it's possible, but if you really want each forum section to pop on the front page, you could have each section have a picture background (perhaps some sort of pattern related to the forum since each section is quite thin but long). A while ago, I saw one region's forums have something like that, but I can't remember which. It could end up looking quite tacky, though. Also, not sure how it would affect the visibility of the text. Also also, not sure how it would translate to mobile version since they'd have different dimensions than the desktop version.

example of what I mean

Don't mind the shitty layering of the text -- tried to do it relatively quick. Might look better if the sections were just the tiniest bit larger.

@Gerrick: To be honest, I've never seen this implemented well on a forum, but I don't think anyone that I've seen has ever tried making it a faint transparency in the background. I might experiment at some point to see if that makes it clash less with the text or not.

I'm not sure the longer descriptions really helped, because we still have a lot of people who don't know what some of the forums are, especially government forums. I'm wondering if it would be helpful to have a longer space inside each forum page that could be used to give much longer descriptions and links. We could also improve the subtitles if that would help.

That might be a good idea, reminds me of how the interface is on Discord channels.

Which do you like better...what's on the front page now or what's on the entire rest of the forums?

Not sure, but I value consistency.

I don't remember trying to make the avatars work before, but in this case it was more making them look good while keeping the last post information centered in its column that took some work. It was hard to do that without pushing the information out of the books, or having the avatar cramped on (or even over) the text, or having it break up into another line. That may have been the issue my younger self ran into, but I don't remember specifically.

I think last time you made it a tiny circle next to the username.

@Red Mones: I think what I like about it is that it kinda pops...it stands out, gives the page some style, and makes it so it isn't just a bunch of text. What is it specifically that you don't like about the avatars?

I think it is debatable how much something should pop, and where the line between giving style and clashing with the style is to be found. So it definitely makes sense that we'd see some disagreement here.

Now that I'm giving it more thought, I think an issue with it is that it's not clear what those images are or why they're there. Because you tested it in the past I assumed it was avatars of the most recent poster, but I don't think that's really obvious from how/where the images are currently placed. In particular I think they might be mistaken for topic thumbnails rather than small avatars. The avatars are also not immediately discernible, so I think a possibility is that the icons might lead to increased confusion.

I like the changes. Makes the front page seem simpler and sleeker.

Don't know if it's possible, but if you really want each forum section to pop on the front page, you could have each section have a picture background (perhaps some sort of pattern related to the forum since each section is quite thin but long). A while ago, I saw one region's forums have something like that, but I can't remember which. It could end up looking quite tacky, though. Also, not sure how it would affect the visibility of the text. Also also, not sure how it would translate to mobile version since they'd have different dimensions than the desktop version.

example of what I mean

Don't mind the shitty layering of the text -- tried to do it relatively quick. Might look better if the sections were just the tiniest bit larger.

ow my eyes

I feel like that would be super hard to work into the existing style of the forums, even if it were made fainter. Perhaps images could be used as thumbnails/icons for each subforum, rather than the identical ones we currently have for each one? But that may also clash with the existing aesthetic.

I don't think the new time format takes into account time zones. Vroendal's post in the Frostwake Orphanage (woo!) was made 3 hours ago, but the front page says it was 8.

Spoiler

@Red Mones: I think what I like about it is that it kinda pops...it stands out, gives the page some style, and makes it so it isn't just a bunch of text. What is it specifically that you don't like about the avatars?

I honestly don't know exactly. Something about it just doesn't...match? I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about it just doesn't work in my head lol. (though using the forum for the past couple days, I am getting used to it)

Now that I'm giving it more thought, I think an issue with it is that it's not clear what those images are or why they're there. Because you tested it in the past I assumed it was avatars of the most recent poster, but I don't think that's really obvious from how/where the images are currently placed. In particular I think they might be mistaken for topic thumbnails rather than small avatars. The avatars are also not immediately discernible, so I think a possibility is that the icons might lead to increased confusion.

I personally wouldn't mind having them display topic icons instead, but then we have to deal with the fact that our topic icons suck. Between that and the fact that they're not very visible in the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure that I have actually ever used them. There's a lot of things we could do with that...we could use Font Awesome icons, emojis, or even let people upload their own topic icons to reflect the topic, but all of those are projects in themselves.

And I like consistency too...hopefully we would bring the improvements made here to the other pages. I think the individual forum pages and recent topics are desperately in need of some remodeling compared to the front page and topic pages.

I don't think the new time format takes into account time zones. Vroendal's post in the Frostwake Orphanage (woo!) was made 3 hours ago, but the front page says it was 8.

Spoiler

Yeah, it was originally designed to show a static time based on time zone, but now I'm comparing that time to UTC time and that's where the issue is coming in. The time zone offset either needs to be removed from the post time or added to the server time. It'll be the next thing I work on when I get a chance.

What's up with the forum skin, by the way?

I honestly don't know exactly. Something about it just doesn't...match? I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about it just doesn't work in my head lol. (though using the forum for the past couple days, I am getting used to it)

It may just be that it's a change and for people that are used to how it was it takes some getting used to. Based on our past convos I get the idea that you use the forum front page a lot more than most other regulars, so it may be that you're more used to how it was.

I get the idea that you use the forum front page a lot more than most other regulars

That may very well be the case, actually.

Yeah, it was originally designed to show a static time based on time zone, but now I'm comparing that time to UTC time and that's where the issue is coming in. The time zone offset either needs to be removed from the post time or added to the server time. It'll be the next thing I work on when I get a chance.

What's up with the forum skin, by the way?

That makes sense. Not a huge deal, anyway.

And I use a Chrome extension called Deluminate, which attempts to turn all white on websites to black. I like it as it's easier on my eyes, although it isn't great on every website and most colors are slightly off, which is mildly annoying. But if there were ever a dark theme on Wintreath, I'd use that instead.

That makes sense. Not a huge deal, anyway.

And I use a Chrome extension called Deluminate, which attempts to turn all white on websites to black. I like it as it's easier on my eyes, although it isn't great on every website and most colors are slightly off, which is mildly annoying. But if there were ever a dark theme on Wintreath, I'd use that instead.

Do you like the skin it came up with for Wintreath?

It does a pretty good  job with turning stuff black on the forums, although as I said most colors are slightly off, which is mildly annoying for images or when I'm trying to use accurate colors for stuff like formatting colors on text or with the badges. But I've accepted it as part of using Deluminate (which is why I don't always use it).

I did some work this evening with the subforums...they now display as a list instead of three columns, with the last topic in the subforum over to the right. I tried to include last poster and time as well, but having two lines for subforums just didn't feel right.

I also fixed the time issue!

Let me know your thoughts