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For Your Information Asks the Candidates
Debate 1: Disclosure of Information

Good evening! Since we're just getting started, I thought we could start out with something simple...an introduction of the candidates, if you will. One of the recent issues to be debated in The South Pacific was an idea to require a disclosure of what other regions or inter-regional organizations voters in their elections are involved in. How do you feel about such a requirement for election candidates, appointed officials, voters, and/or Citizens?

Additionally, would you as a candidate in this election voluntarily disclose the other regions you are currently a part of, your roles in those regions, and your personal gameplay alignment?

Could you please clarify the question?

Which question?

The first part,

How do you feel about such a requirement for election candidates, appointed officials, voters, and/or Citizens?

Also could you clarify this part

One of the recent issues to be debated in The South Pacific was an idea to require a disclosure of what other regions or inter-regional organizations voters in their elections are involved in.

A requirement that any of those groups of people maintain a list of regions outside Wintreath that they're involved in, and their roles in those regions, thus disclosing that information to the public.

Thank You.
Now for my debate

How do you feel about such a requirement for election candidates, appointed officials, voters, and/or Citizens?

I don't mind it, while it could be a bit labor-some, for others, I see no problem with it

Additionally, would you as a candidate in this election voluntarily disclose the other regions you are currently a part of, your roles in those regions, and your personal gameplay alignment?

Yes, because I feel like it is my duty, as a candidate(and if I get elected, elected Official), to be honest with the voters. If I can't be trusted how can I be trusted to run a government?

I believe that for elected officials it may well be a good thing - as far as I can recall, most of our diplomats and a lot of the Overhusen are high up in governmental positions in other regions. Personally, I feel that's a little uncool, but I understand it's an aspect of this game that I've yet to come to terms with.

I would of course disclose my 0 other regions I agree with Chanku - if you can't trust me, why should I be allowed to partake in office on your behalf?

For citizens who hold no post outside of minor officials (diplomat, recruiters, etc; - with the exclusion of the military) in Wintreath, I oppose keeping a list of their activities. That smacks of totalitarianism, and nigh a police state. There is no need to track the movements, posts and various nations a person has if they are not in any official or military capacity where that same activity could compromise the State. IF they are an elected official, or member of the armed forces, then a list should be created by a volunteer basis as a requirement of service or standing for election.

Yuri I have to disagree with some parts.

For citizens who hold no post outside of minor officials (diplomat, recruiters, etc; - with the exclusion of the military) in Wintreath, I oppose keeping a list of their activities.

I think people who will represent Wintreath should have a list of offices in which they are in, due to the fact that they ARE representing us. While I am new, I do think that if they represent us, then why shouldn't the citizens know what they do? However this is not a large problem.

That smacks of totalitarianism, and nigh a police state. There is no need to track the movements, posts and various nations a person has if they are not in any official or military capacity where that same activity could compromise the State.

I do have to agree that this is a bit extreme.

IF they are an elected official, or member of the armed forces, then a list should be created by a volunteer basis as a requirement of service or standing for election.

It should be a requirement, that they list everything they are apart of, because as an elected official I think it is the citizen's right to know what the person is apart of and their position. The people have a right to know what regions we participate in and the offices we hold. While I understand basic needs for secrecy, there is little need for secrecy unless doing so would compromise security of an ally of Wintreath, or for Wintreath itself. The main reason is, if I have a position in another region, then why shouldn't the citizen's of Wintreath, know? Again if I have to keep secrets, which wouldn't compromise, the security of Wintreath or it's allies, then why should I be trusted to run Wintreath, write laws, and represent the people of Wintreath.

I think people who will represent Wintreath should have a list of offices in which they are in, due to the fact that they ARE representing us. While I am new, I do think that if they represent us, then why shouldn't the citizens know what they do? However this is not a large problem.

Diplomats ebb and flow. Maintaining a list of nations, where they are and what post they occupy could become a logistical nightmare. However to me, that is secondary to the fact that everyone represents Wintreath. For example, a member of another region, who wasn't a specific diplomat, damaged the relations between our region and theirs by sending a recruitment telegram to all of our members. At any point, anyone of our citizens could be in a situation to interact with, and represent Wintreath to another region. Should we therefore maintain a list for all citizens?

I do have to agree that this is a bit extreme.

I don't like the idea of lists being created of the puppets of citizen's nations and where they are located. There is no conceivable use of this information other than to possess it. That alone strikes me as a need to control. If a citizen is not in any position, and has no responsibilities to the State other than to be active and remain loyal, then why is that information necessary?

It should be a requirement, that they list everything they are apart of, because as an elected official I think it is the citizen's right to know what the person is apart of and their position. The people have a right to know what regions we participate in and the offices we hold. While I understand basic needs for secrecy, there is little need for secrecy unless doing so would compromise security of an ally of Wintreath, or for Wintreath itself. The main reason is, if I have a position in another region, then why shouldn't the citizen's of Wintreath, know? Again if I have to keep secrets, which wouldn't compromise, the security of Wintreath or it's allies, then why should I be trusted to run Wintreath, write laws, and represent the people of Wintreath.

I do not disagree with you that people who want to have any official capacity of consequence (military, elected, appointed, etc;), there should be the REQUIREMENT of a list of your nations and what they're doing. This is because the responsibilities of those nations may conflict with the duties of the citizen of Wintreath. However, simply keeping a nation in a region other than Wintreath, when you are not in a position of rank or responsibility is neither a security risk, nor a secret. It is a right to reasonable privacy that most societies would accept as normal.

Sorry to have to interrupt this debate for a second, but I have received a request for Yuri to clarify a statement he made:

IF they are an elected official, or member of the armed forces, then a list should be created by a volunteer basis as a requirement of service or standing for election.

When I first read it, I thought he meant that the list would be voluntary. But I don't think he meant that, reading it again and from other comments he made.

I believe there's some confusion because in the quote it specifies that it should be created on a volunteer basis, but then later you seem to agree with Chanku that the listing be a requirement.

Sorry to have to interrupt this debate for a second, but I have received a request for Yuri to clarify a statement he made:

IF they are an elected official, or member of the armed forces, then a list should be created by a volunteer basis as a requirement of service or standing for election.

When I first read it, I thought he meant that the list would be voluntary. But I don't think he meant that, reading it again and from other comments he made.

I believe there's some confusion because in the quote it specifies that it should be created on a volunteer basis, but then later you seem to agree with Chanku that the listing be a requirement.

The preceding word (volunteer), acts as a qualifier to the position of an elected (as an addendum, appointed or ranked military, etc;) position. To be more blunt, if you want to run, which that act is voluntary, then you have a requirement to put forward a list of your nations and positions as a condition to run.

Diplomats ebb and flow. Maintaining a list of nations, where they are and what post they occupy could become a logistical nightmare. However to me, that is secondary to the fact that everyone represents Wintreath. For example, a member of another region, who wasn't a specific diplomat, damaged the relations between our region and theirs by sending a recruitment telegram to all of our members. At any point, anyone of our citizens could be in a situation to interact with, and represent Wintreath to another region. Should we therefore maintain a list for all citizens?

No Because the people for Diplomats are selected by the region, and therefore are selected to represent us. While a citizen represents us, what would be worse, a citizen acting like a shit-head, or a diplomat acting like a shit-head?  The answer would be the diplomat. This can be applied for this situation

I don't like the idea of lists being created of the puppets of citizen's nations and where they are located. There is no conceivable use of this information other than to possess it. That alone strikes me as a need to control. If a citizen is not in any position, and has no responsibilities to the State other than to be active and remain loyal, then why is that information necessary?

Again it would only be of diplomats(high-level) and elected representatives, along with the WHR as that might be necessary for military reasons.

I do not disagree with you that people who want to have any official capacity of consequence (military, elected, appointed, etc;), there should be the REQUIREMENT of a list of your nations and what they're doing. This is because the responsibilities of those nations may conflict with the duties of the citizen of Wintreath. However, simply keeping a nation in a region other than Wintreath, when you are not in a position of rank or responsibility is neither a security risk, nor a secret. It is a right to reasonable privacy that most societies would accept as normal.

Again, if you are actively involved, in which you are a part of the government of that region, it should be stated. While you should state where your puppets are(excluding Military Puppets), as long as they aren't doing anything, then there would be no reason to state. I guess I didn't do a good job explaining my position. I was taking the assumption that all puppets(excluding Military puppets), were being used in another region's government. However I do assume that if a puppet is not actively apart of a military or government position in another region, then it could be optional to put, until it were to become active in the region's government. Again this is also assuming revealing the position would not harm an ally of wintreath, or wintreath itself.

I also want to note that I do agree that if it is optional(such as the Underhusen) then you should have to state the regions, unless it falls into any of the above conditions which would prevent that.

The preceding word (volunteer), acts as a qualifier to the position of an elected (as an addendum, appointed or ranked military, etc;) position. To be more blunt, if you want to run, which that act is voluntary, then you have a requirement to put forward a list of your nations and positions as a condition to run.

Pope sends his thanks for your clarification.

No Because the people for Diplomats are selected by the region, and therefore are selected to represent us. While a citizen represents us, what would be worse, a citizen acting like a shit-head, or a diplomat acting like a shit-head?  The answer would be the diplomat. This can be applied for this situation.

We'll just have to disagree here. To me, you don't have a varying degree of shithead. A shithead is a shithead, regardless of his post. Frankly, the diplomat position is a minor issue of the larger question and I'm prepared to concede this point.

Again it would only be of diplomats(high-level) and elected representatives, along with the WHR as that might be necessary for military reasons.

As I stated above, I can live with diplomats if need be, and I stated I expected a list to be maintained for government officials and members of the military. However private citizens with no rank, access to information, nor any responsibility, don't pose a risk to the region. Keeping a list of these people is pointless and is only done for the sake of doing so.

Again, if you are actively involved, in which you are a part of the government of that region, it should be stated. While you should state where your puppets are(excluding Military Puppets), as long as they aren't doing anything, then there would be no reason to state. I guess I didn't do a good job explaining my position. I was taking the assumption that all puppets(excluding Military puppets), were being used in another region's government. However I do assume that if a puppet is not actively apart of a military or government position in another region, then it could be optional to put, until it were to become active in the region's government. Again this is also assuming revealing the position would not harm an ally of wintreath, or wintreath itself.

If you are involved in the government of another region, and you are also a basic citizen in wintreath, with no access to sensitive information, devoid of any rank or station and have no responsibilities then I ask you how can that person in Wintreath be a risk? The burden of proof is upon those who would seek to impose a list on these citizens, and not upon the citizens to defend against something they haven't done (that being create a conflict of interest). Even if somebody is in government in another region, if they don't have access to any information, nor do the hold station here, they are citizens and pose no threat. If they want rank, responsibility or a place in government then they would then be tasked to produce the list as a requirement.

I think we're at an impasse, since I am now essentially repeating my overall argument. I'll let you have the last word and let the other candidates speak on this further.