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I wanted to revive Constitutional Convention discussion and Storting reform per the Underhusen's current agenda and popular demand for change to the legislature. I credit @Gerrick for the basis of this proposal. I sought to combine the deserved merit of the nobility with the election of Storting members we have had previously.

Storting Familial Reformation Act

1. Section 1 of Royal Decree 004 shall be amended as follows:

1) All Citizens of Wintreath who head a familial house in the region shall have the right to formally request recognition of their House by the Government of Wintreath. The Monarch or his designee shall have the authority to approve or deny requests for recognition, and shall maintain a public record of all currently recognized Houses.

2. A new section, numbered 3, shall be inserted after section 2 of Royal Decree 004 and read as follows:

3)Members in each House may vote to induct additional Members into their houses by majority vote of existing Members.
   a) The Monarch shall have the power to veto any Member induction.

   a) Subsequent sections of Royal Decree 004 shall be renumbered accordingly.

3. A new section, numbered 5(a), shall be inserted before existing section 5(a) of Royal Decree 004 and read as follows:

a) A Noble House shall not consist of fewer than two (2) Members. Upon declaration to a Noble House, if said House consists of only one (1) Member, the House must immediately induct an additional Member.

   a) Subsequent subsections of section 5 of Royal Decree 004 shall be renumbered accordingly.

4. Article I of the Fundamental Laws shall be amended as follows:

I. The Storting

1. The legislative and judicial authorities and duties of Wintreath shall be vested in a bicameral legislature called the Storting, which shall consist of a lower chamber called the Underhusen and an upper chamber called the Overhusen.

The Underhusen
2. The Underhusen shall be comprised of no less than five and no more than nine Skrifa elected by the Citizens of Wintreath. The exact number of Skrifa shall be determined by the Underhusen prior to Underhusen elections opening. Underhusen candidates may not be a Member of a Royal or Noble House as defined by sections 4 and 5, respectively, of Royal Decree 004. Should the number of candidates not exceed the determined number of Skrifa, all candidates shall be considered elected by default.

3. Underhusen elections shall begin on the first day of the months of January, April, July, and October. Skrifa shall be elected by plurality vote. In the event of a tie between two or more candidates, a run-off vote shall be conducted to resolve the tie vote. If a vacancy occurs in the Underhusen, a special election to fill the vacancy shall be held within seven days of the vacancy being created unless there are fewer than twenty-one days remaining in the Underhusen's term.

4. Upon the conclusion of the election, the Underhusen shall, under supervison of the Monarch, select a member of its own to preside over the Underhusen. Further procedure shall be declared in the Procedural Rules of the Underhusen.

The Overhusen
5. The Overhusen shall be comprised of Peers appointed by the Noble Houses of Wintreath, in addition to all Members of the Royal Family.

6. Each Noble House shall be represented by one (1) Peer for every four (4) Members in said House, rounded up. Each Noble House shall decide, by plurality vote, which of their Members shall represent the House. Votes for House representation may occur at any time. In the event of a tie between two or more candidates, the tie shall be resolved by the Monarch.

7. On the first day of the months of January, April, July, and October, the Monarch shall appoint a Chairperson of the Overhusen, who shall execute the procedural rules established by the Overhusen. In the event of a vacancy, the Monarch shall have the authority to appoint a new Peer to fill the vacancy.

The Legislative Process
8. Legislation shall be initially introduced in either the Underhusen or Overhusen.

9. The Overhusen or Underhusen shall vote to pass or veto the legislation upon passage by the other chamber.

10. If a chamber chooses to pass amended legislation, the chamber that passed the original vote must vote again on the amended proposal.

11. Should a legislative chamber veto any legislation, the legislation may be reintroduced in either chamber in order to revise the proposal.

Authorities and Duties of the Storting
12. The Storting shall have the authority to pass legislation, repeal previously passed legislation, propose amendments to these Fundamental Laws, and take any other action deemed necessary and proper to execute the authorities and duties vested in the Storting by these Fundamental Laws.

13. Each chamber of the Storting shall have the authority to create and revise their own procedural rules.

14. The Storting shall have the authority to declare war upon another region or organization.

15. The Storting shall have the authority to ratify or reject treaties with other regions or organizations.

16. Each chamber of the Storting shall have the authority to issue non-binding resolutions expressing the sense of their chamber in relation to all matters.

17. The Storting shall have the authority to interpret these Fundamental Laws and statutory laws and consider the constitutionality over laws brought before the Storting, determine rulings and verdicts in regard to violations of these laws, and determine punishments for violations of these laws within the parameters of these Fundamental Laws and any other laws.

18. The Storting shall have the authority to issue advisory opinions on matters of constitutionality and legality to anyone whom the Storting has determined has standing to seek an advisory opinion.

19. The Storting shall have the authority to create and revise the rules of judicial proceedings for judicial panels.

5. Upon ratification, this Amendment shall take place on 1 July 2016, after which Underhusen and Overhusen elections shall commence.

In summary:

• Any Citizen may form a House at the discretion of the Monarch rather than those only with 100+ posts.
• Noble Houses must have two or more members. Noble Houses with only one member must select another member to join them, with the approval of the Monarch.
• Noble Houses elect one Peer each to the Overhusen, unless a Noble House has more than four members, at which point a second Peer may represent the House.
• The Monarch and all members of the Royal family maintain permanent representation in the Overhusen.
• The Underhusen consists of 5-9 members of everyone else, elected as normal.
• Both the Overhusen and Underhusen may introduce legislation, and passes the legislation to the other when a law passes one of the chambers.
• If a bill is amended, the bill must receive a revote.
• Legislative sessions have been lengthened to three months, with elections and Chairperson appointments being made in January, April, July, and October.
• Everything else remains the same.

I know the Royal Decrees may not technically be amended by legislation, but these amendments are necessary in order to fulfill the conditions of the Act. So I hope I may ask for @Wintermoot to enact these changes if he deems them proper and just.

Please let me know if any of you have any questions.

I'm not ignoring this, I'm just wanting to see what other people say before I weigh in.

Noble Houses must have two or more members. Noble Houses with only one member must select another member to join them, with the approval of the Monarch.

Coming from someone who was elevated with no members in his house and only very recently garnered some, I think this is a horrible idea...no offense meant.

I think nobility shouldn't be tied specifically to member count, since it's a commendation given by the monarch.

Actually, I think nothing should be tied to nobility, given that it's a commendation by the monarch, and I think it should stay that way.  Tying them into the political system in any way takes away from it being a commendation by the Monarch and turns it into something else completely, which I'm actually really not down with...given that we have so very few ways to commend members who do well in the community.

Are we going to give Wintreath Commendation recipients extra voting power, next?

The goal there was to get more members into the noble families so the nobility seemed more like a collection of houses rather than lone representatives. It also offers the opportunity for a backup to serve in the upper house if the noble were to decline a seat there, provided the backup is also trusted.

The goal there was to get more members into the noble families so the nobility seemed more like a collection of houses rather than lone representatives. It also offers the opportunity for a backup to serve in the upper house if the noble were to decline a seat there, provided the backup is also trusted.

I understand the goal of getting more members into families period...but it should be up to the Monarch and him alone as to who can get elevated by recognition of their efforts...not who has members versus who doesn't.

And as I said anyways, I think throwing that into a political battlefield anyways is a bad idea.  The last thing I want to see is commendations getting mixed up with politics, given that nobility commendations are just as common as Wintreath commendations (given we only have 3 members of nobility active right now and likewise 2 members who received the Wintreath commendation)... and they're meant purely as recognition of a member's efforts on the forums.  Trying to tie that into political power just screams of a potential bad idea in the making, and I don't want to see a commendation turn into something political.

Forgive me for thinking that people who have contributed exceptionally should have more of a say in running the affairs in the region, then. Citizens who have been commended typically put a lot of time and effort into their work for the region and are already influential in the paths the region takes. Otherwise, I have no idea how the Cabinet and Overhusen have been selected, then. I just felt this would be a more systematic process for it.

Forgive me for thinking that people who have contributed exceptionally should have more of a say in running the affairs in the region, then. Citizens who have been commended typically put a lot of time and effort into their work for the region and are already influential in the paths the region takes. Otherwise, I have no idea how the Cabinet and Overhusen have been selected, then. I just felt this would be a more systematic process for it.

The problem isn't that I don't think they should have more say in how the region goes.  It's that I just think politics should stay away from commendations, since again, it sets up a precedent to where we'd have to ask if Wintreath Commendation recipients should also get extra privileges because they've been granted such a title.

People who are commended in any way have been so BECAUSE they've proven they already have enough say in helping run affairs of the region.  All of our recipients for either honor have been part of the cabinet, run in the Underhusen/Overhusen, or introduced laws that have greatly influenced how Wintreath has run.

However, that was their choice to do so, and that's how it should be.  If a member of a noble house, or a member who has a Wintreath Commendation chooses to get involved in politics, then it should be their choice to do so.

I will completely stand against anything in which that choice becomes a requirement (such as what this is trying to turn noble houses into), and likewise will completely stand against anything in which the Monarch's way of honoring someone turns into something political, and when others outside of the monarch add requirements as to how he himself can even commend someone by elevating them.

That seems to put the cart before the horse. If we are to be a region where people outside the government contribute to areas other than culture, there needs to be some kind of incentive to do so. It's not perfect in that there needn't be an incentive in the first place, but that's not something that can be solved without significant reform.

Keep in mind I intentionally put many failsafes into the bill to allow the Monarch to have the final say in who gets chosen and honoured. I don't think he would honour someone if he didn't put political trust in them. For that reason, the Commendation is separate from nobility in that the Commendation would still remain as a non-political reward.

And joining the legislature as a noble isn't a requirement. The option to decline/resign one's seat has always existed.

Members in each House may vote to induct additional Members into their houses by majority vote of existing Members.

I take issue with this part of the draft. IMO, it's the House's own business to decide how they want to induct additional members (for example, most Houses are probably small enough for a consensus decision-making process).

I was thinking of consensus, actually, but figured the law had to be codified, even if the "votes" for new members are informal. I can take it out or alter it somehow.

That seems to put the cart before the horse. If we are to be a region where people outside the government contribute to areas other than culture, there needs to be some kind of incentive to do so. It's not perfect in that there needn't be an incentive in the first place, but that's not something that can be solved without significant reform.

But we're not a substantially political region that requires such incentive.  We never have been, and I don't think we need to keep changing things so haphazardly to try to be.  Does the system need to change?  Sure, as I would like to see us be a little more political than we are.  But I don't agree with this method in the slightest.

Keep in mind I intentionally put many failsafes into the bill to allow the Monarch to have the final say in who gets chosen and honoured. I don't think he would honour someone if he didn't put political trust in them. For that reason, the Commendation is separate from nobility in that the Commendation would still remain as a non-political reward.

But by this act, it wouldn't be a non-political reward.  He doesn't elevate people for political reasons or with that in his mind.  That's what his Overhusen and Cabinet appointments are for...because he's appointing people he feels he can trust will keep the interest of the Monarchy in mind.

Appointments and elevations/commendations need to be kept separate.  Members who he appoints to the Overhusen don't have to necessarily be from a Noble house (as shown by Josh and Wuufu, one who is in a common house and one who has no house), and I think that's fine.  It's a conglomeration of people from different sides, rather than everyone being from the same type of field.

Really, it begs more of those "what's next?" questions.  Are we going to make it a requirement that all Jarls and Thanes belong to a noble house in order to remain on the cabinet, despite it being the Monarch's discretion who is/isn't on the cabinet?  Because like nobility and like the Overhusen, it's a choice that's really supposed to be, and should be entirely at the Monarch's discretion on how it's handled and how people are chosen.

And joining the legislature as a noble isn't a requirement. The option to decline/resign one's seat has always existed.

As per that Act, though, the Overhusen would consist purely of peers elected from each of the Noble houses.  If we want a well stocked Overhusen, all of the houses (3 right now) would be forced to accept and keep their seat, unless the next suggestion is forcing the monarch to elevate more houses so that we'd have more peers to be put into play.

For members with bigger houses like Colby/Laurentus', that's no biggie since they can shuffle through members.  But for a house with smaller numbers like mine (my only actual active members are Vidilune and Lumenland) or Weiss (whose used to be bigger), that becomes an issue.  Even more so if none of the other members are either active (such as if Vidi and Lumen completely disappeared) or don't want to jump into the political system (like I may choose I don't want to be involved at some point, and likewise Vidi and Lumen may choose not to be as well).

Again, I don't want to have to be forced to take a seat in the Overhusen just so it can have a full set.

With the Underhusen it's a different story since it's members choosing to run and undergo elections.  I don't have to run to be able to see a full UH set.

Likewise with the current method, Moot appoints everyone to the Overhusen that he wants, and I think it's fine like that.

Does the system need to change?  Sure, as I would like to see us be a little more political than we are.  But I don't agree with this method in the slightest.

I'd like to hear your thoughts, then. Since we both agree on that issue, I hope we can find a way to work together to make it so.

But by this act, it wouldn't be a non-political reward.  He doesn't elevate people for political reasons or with that in his mind.  That's what his Overhusen and Cabinet appointments are for...because he's appointing people he feels he can trust will keep the interest of the Monarchy in mind.

Appointments and elevations/commendations need to be kept separate.  Members who he appoints to the Overhusen don't have to necessarily be from a Noble house (as shown by Josh and Wuufu, one who is in a common house and one who has no house), and I think that's fine.  It's a conglomeration of people from different sides, rather than everyone being from the same type of field.

I only said the Commendation was non-political (because of its intrinsic rather than extrinsic value). And under the new system, they would still be kept separate, although grouped together as appointment/elevation and commendation.

I guess I had just figured that Wintermoot would elevate his already existing Overhusen members in order to keep them in their positions. Given, it may or may not be a poor assumption to make, but if Wintermoot has determined that they have kept the interests of the Monarchy, he would show it by having them remain in the Overhusen.

Really, it begs more of those "what's next?" questions.  Are we going to make it a requirement that all Jarls and Thanes belong to a noble house in order to remain on the cabinet, despite it being the Monarch's discretion who is/isn't on the cabinet?  Because like nobility and like the Overhusen, it's a choice that's really supposed to be, and should be entirely at the Monarch's discretion on how it's handled and how people are chosen.

This really seems like a slippery slope argument to me. The cabinet is a contribution to the executive branch rather than to the legislature, and is already separate. Just because this law involves the legislature doesn't mean I encourage it for all branches.

If anything, the cabinet is more of a model to my argument, because Wintermoot selects the Jarls, who in turn select Thanes. The fact that the Thanes are selected by the Jarls rather than by the Monarch directly shows how noble houses can select other members they trust. The Monarch shows some role in lending that trust as well, due to his ultimate veto power.

As per that Act, though, the Overhusen would consist purely of peers elected from each of the Noble houses.  If we want a well stocked Overhusen, all of the houses (3 right now) would be forced to accept and keep their seat, unless the next suggestion is forcing the monarch to elevate more houses so that we'd have more peers to be put into play.

For members with bigger houses like Colby/Laurentus', that's no biggie since they can shuffle through members.  But for a house with smaller numbers like mine (my only actual active members are Vidilune and Lumenland) or Weiss (whose used to be bigger), that becomes an issue.  Even more so if none of the other members are either active (such as if Vidi and Lumen completely disappeared) or don't want to jump into the political system (like I may choose I don't want to be involved at some point, and likewise Vidi and Lumen may choose not to be as well).

Again, I don't want to have to be forced to take a seat in the Overhusen just so it can have a full set.

With the Underhusen it's a different story since it's members choosing to run and undergo elections.  I don't have to run to be able to see a full UH set.

I understand your concerns about the potentially-empty OH, and I hadn't thought about that before. That, I suppose, we would have to find the results of if we get to it. The Monarch and his family members all get seats instead of one/two per house, so if necessary, Wintermoot can always draft someone into his family if the OH needs more seats filled. I'm not entirely sure how many OH members is optimal, but it already is a work in progress.

This really seems like a slippery slope argument to me. The cabinet is a contribution to the executive branch rather than to the legislature, and is already separate. Just because this law involves the legislature doesn't mean I encourage it for all branches.

If anything, the cabinet is more of a model to my argument, because Wintermoot selects the Jarls, who in turn select Thanes. The fact that the Thanes are selected by the Jarls rather than by the Monarch directly shows how noble houses can select other members they trust. The Monarch shows some role in lending that trust as well, due to his ultimate veto power.

Yes and no.  It's an obvious slippery slope argument, but it's a valid one since you're talking about changing something that's entirely at Moot's discretion, and the cabinet is another one of those areas.

I just don't want to see the noble houses get pushed into something far greater than their intended purpose may have been.   Right now they're actually diminished from their true purpose, which is this for Counts:

the Monarch may confer upon the house a public forum area in the name of the city or area the family is based in.

And this for Dukes/Duchesses:

This title may come with the grant of a region which was founded by the Founder of Wintreath and holds a vassal relationship with Wintreath. If the individual is the patriarch or matriarch of a recognized familial house, the Monarch may confer upon the house a public forum area in the name of the city or area the family is based in.

And I'd assume it's because we're such a small region that bestowing those is simply going to be wasteful since they'd barely get activity.  Likewise, houses are so small, even the noble houses, that the first part of that statement for dukes wouldn't even make sense right now for the same reason.

And that's also a problem right now with pushing any of the houses to be more than they are at the moment, which are simply things that make RPs more interesting.

We're not a big forum.  Having a successful house system hinges on having a big messageboard with many members in each house.

Before we even think about throwing them into a political frenzy which will get people making the same complaints that we've gotten about cabinet members serving on the UH (because in the end, the UH AND OH should be an open opportunity for anyone that is worthy, not just nobility.  Moot should be allowed to appoint anyone he chooses whether they're noble or not), we need to focus on getting the members here first before we even consider talking about doing anything with the houses.  As you said, we don't want to put the cart before the horse.  We don't want to push the houses into more prominent roles when our member count for each house is minimal at best save for a couple.

In the end though, it's up to Moot, because the Familial system and nobility ranks were created by royal Decree (004 and 005 respectively).  If he says no, then this topic is pretty moot.

I had actually wanted to hear Moot's thoughts first, because his discretion was and is the most important one here. I saw the decrees and I quoted them, but seeing as how they are decrees, it is his final decision.

And anyone has the opportunity to become a noble.

I know we are not a large region in terms of forum activity, but I don't think we should let that doom us for failure. We can expand our house system into so much more, and this is only a start.

The thing is that the few nobles we have, have only been made thus after a major contribution to the region, not typical of many other members. While I like that this tries to give the nobility (and houses in general) more of a purpose outside RP, I have come to realise that this is functionally similar to party-politics, which almost never works out well on NS. Not in my experience, anyway.

The idea isn't "horrible," and I think Pengu's reaction is a bit too harsh, but it does have many obstacles in its way that could prevent it from making it through the entire process.

I may try my hand at another proposal later today. Really, I like the idea of having one chamber of the assembly, and being bound to a strict constitution that requires an absurd majority to change, or even that the constitution is solely at the discretion of the monarch, and therefore any law that the assembly tries to pass must adhere the constitution, or else be considered unlawful. That would go a long way to keeping the regional integrity in place, prevent democracy from declaring war on regions who really don't have it coming, and also prevent foreign powers from seizing control through the legislature and running amok. Democracy, without it becoming "tyranny by majority" as some people's fears were during the ratification vote of the open assembly idea.