View Topic

Could it easily die out again? Sure, but that's unlikely. Over time, we'll see a drift to RPs that require a lot more thought before posting, instead of the activity that caught everyone off guard when I started up the guild again, but there will always be people that want to RP, so unless it's very mismanaged, I think the odds are slim that it would just die out.

It can still occur, further with our current system should the same fate befall the political side it is MUCH easier to restart in that system then in a system much like how our Cultural side has essentially been ran. Since all you need to do is elect people that will do things and make sure they do it...

The current legislature is already failing. The bit of activity we squeeze out of it is a drop in the bucket compared to that which the region produces in other, more community-oriented parts of the forum.

It's still easier to restart. Besides I would much rather have a dead Underhusen than a dead OA. You can not convince me that an OA is better, because I see no situation in which an OA is better.

Again, Wuufu seemed to make a compelling case for it.

But that's beside the point. You say nothing about the current system should be changed, but that begs the obvious question: if so, why is it failing, and why has it so dramatically failed in the Ratification vote? Surely there must be a problem that needs fixing then.

If it's so easy to start it back up again, why hasn't this been done?

And is the tiny bit of activity it generates truly worth it when all these fights break out in and around the legislature?

Again, Wuufu seemed to make a compelling case for it.

One region out of about Five that have been mentioned.

But that's beside the point. You say nothing about the current system should be changed, but that begs the obvious question: if so, why is it failing, and why has it so dramatically failed in the Ratification vote? Surely there must be a problem that needs fixing then.

Or there is no problem, aside from apathy, which can't exactly be solved and wouldn't be solved by an OA.

If it's so easy to start it back up again, why hasn't this been done?

Because I haven't been elected and I have also been busy.

And is the tiny bit of activity it generates truly worth it when all these fights break out in and around the legislature?

Laurentus, you seem to ignore the fact that an Open Assembly won't fix this at all, if anything it will make it worse.

I disagree with the statement that it would necessarily be worse, but again, that's beside the point, since we're discussing our current system now.

What I'm seeing here so far is a stubborn attempt to keep the current system the way it is without even considering ways in which it could be fixed. tatte is actually making the attempt to fix it, and recognising that there are problems.

It's also this same system that hasn't allowed you to be a part of it again, which, aside from the rather arrogant implication that only you can fix it, has objectively failed if you are indeed the only one who can fix it and it's still kept you out.

Also, busy with what? That seems to be your response whenever people question your relative silence. If you are that busy to begin with, why would you suddenly not be busy when it comes time for you to be in the UH again?

What I'm seeing here so far is a stubborn attempt to keep the current system the way it is without even considering ways in which it could be fixed. tatte is actually making the attempt to fix it, and recognising that there are problems.

I'm not saying there aren't problems, they just aren't problems that can be fixed by simple law.

It's also this same system that hasn't allowed you to be a part of it again, which, aside from the rather arrogant implication that only you can fix it, has objectively failed if you are indeed the only one who can fix it and it's still kept you out.

Well I wouldn't exactly call it arrogant. If we measure success by activity then I have usually driven the activity within the UH. Look at the history and the archives. A lot of laws have been proposed by me. Their quality varies, but from what I can tell/remember most of them did create activity.

Also, busy with what? That seems to be your response whenever people question your relative silence. If you are that busy to begin with, why would you suddenly not be busy when it comes time for you to be in the UH again?

Life, Non-Wintreath obligations, school, other Wintreath obligations. Honestly the only reason why I haven't bothered with the Legislative recently is because everyone seems to ignore what I am saying, at times, and focus on just small little bits of what I am saying, in addition to the fact that my time could be spent elsewhere, where my input is actually appreciated. If I'm not apart of the UH, at this point, then I try to stay out of it, if only because it's not worth my time at that point, because it's not apart of my job(s) here, or outside of the region.

You've also got a history of belittling people, flaming them, and downright personally attacking them when they disagree with you. You're once more promising to change. We've heard it a million times. At this point, I don't think anyone will believe you anymore.

This is a repeated problem that you have repeatedly refused to directly address.

It is not only with the fact that you have refused to address the fact that you refuse to respect me as a person compared to everyone else in the region.  I am referring to this old post here

You may not believe it, but everyone deserves respect in this region here.  We are all human beings here and we deserve to be treated in a respectful manner.  You are not above anyone, regardless of positions, and especially age.  You cannot expect people to respect you if you do not show respect to others first.  You still have not apologised to me for your disrespect of me nor have you committed to your promise months ago when you were first recalled, that you would respect EVERYONE in the region.   One of the first of many broken promises.

You have not even apologised to Wintermoot, or Hannah, as far as I am aware, for you disrespecting them with your flaming them over IRC query and cursing at them for banning you because you were spamming repeatedly in both the region and on the channel through Zaphyr abuse.

You may know a lot about Wintreath law, but your credibility is worse, than, I regrettably say, mine.  I'm no saint either, but I've apologised for my actions.   You have no integrity or honour.

I do my best to respect everyone, and I don't curse out people when I get punished.  How can people even trust you in this region when you won't even utter a mere apology to me, much less others?

While this may seem personal, it's not, it's part of a much larger issue how Chanku belittles others he disagrees with, considers dissent a form of "personal attack", and does not care about any interests on then his own or how others feel.

How can you be trusted to be a good candidate for the Underhusen, Chanku?  Seriously.  This a direct issue that needs to be addressed DIRECTLY by you and ONLY you. No one else.

This is a repeated problem that you have repeatedly refused to directly address.

I believe I have directly addressed it well enough here.

t is not only with the fact that you have refused to address the fact that you refuse to respect me as a person compared to everyone else in the region.  I am referring to this old post here

I refuse to respect you, period. Because respect is NEVER EVER EVER deserved Gov. I don't care if that's not how you view respect, but for me I will give respect once, if you do things that would make me loose it for you, then you loose it and you have to earn it back. This is final. If you want my thoughts on respect:

However I am of the belief that respect is earned in part, and I will grant respect towards people at first, however if they repeatedly attack people, fail to respect promises, and consistently act in a hypocritical manner along with demanding my respect, then I reserve the right to revoke my respect from them. This session, if I am elected, I will also try to take a step back and not be as involved in the Underhusen as I have been in the past.

which can be found here.

When it comes to your views on respect, you are in the minority here. So ultimately it does not matter what you believe respect is, it matters what nearly everyone else believes it to be.

You may not believe it, but everyone deserves respect in this region here.  We are all human beings here and we deserve to be treated in a respectful manner.  You are not above anyone, regardless of positions, and especially age.  You cannot expect people to respect you if you do not show respect to others first.  You still have not apologised to me for your disrespect of me nor have you committed to your promise months ago when you were first recalled, that you would respect EVERYONE in the region.   One of the first of many broken promises.

No one deserves respect, people deserve the chance to be respected, but they do not deserve inherit respect. Further if you want to talk about broken promises, you have broken your promise to change in the region, to stop blaming others, among others, one of which I will get to in a second.

You have not even apologised to Wintermoot, or Hannah, as far as I am aware, for you disrespecting them with your flaming them over IRC query and cursing at them for banning you because you were spamming repeatedly in both the region and on the channel through Zaphyr abuse.

This matter is private between both me, Wintermoot, and HannahB. This has been settled between us. This does not concern you and whether or not we have made up is, frankly, none of your business. However since you wish to bring the IRC into this, why don't you address your harassment of Hannah in the IRC and your violation of your probation in the IRC, another broken promise.

You may know a lot about Wintreath law, but your credibility is worse, than, I regrettably say, mine.  I'm no saint either, but I've apologised for my actions.   You have no integrity or honour.

To my knowledge you haven't. You never really apologized for Pengu for treating him like shit after he basically caused you to not get your Citizenship Revoked by the Storting.

You never really apologized to HannahB for harassing her, and instead still maintain it is HER fault for you doing so.

I do my best to respect everyone, and I don't curse out people when I get punished.  How can people even trust you in this region when you won't even utter a mere apology to me, much less others?

Actually, you do attack others. You have, at times, lashed out at the IRC ops for banning you. You have told HannahB, several times, that her taking any action against you is just to humiliate you even when it's deserved.

While this may seem personal, it's not, it's part of a much larger issue how Chanku belittles others he disagrees with, considers dissent a form of "personal attack", and does not care about any interests on then his own or how others feel.

This is somewhat personal Gov, we both know it. You are the only one here still beating this drum. Also I do care how others feel, there are just some people I honestly don't care that much about.

How can you be trusted to be a good candidate for the Underhusen, Chanku?  Seriously.  This a direct issue that needs to be addressed DIRECTLY by you and ONLY you. No one else.

The same question can be asked to you. Given that you are the only person in Wintreath to have an indefinite ban from IRC, have had several attempts against your citizenship, and have a history of attacking others, just because you aren't getting your way. Even Wintermoot has acknowledged this.

So if you want to come to me, and bring up things not-involving you that's a personal issue, then that's fine. However this is ultimately the only response I will give here. I am telling you directly, that I will not respond to any more questions like this. Then again we have to consider how much hypocrisy you have for asking me a question like this in the first place.

If you wish to continue this, then please PM me. I will not be responding to any further comments here. Have a nice day

I believe I have directly addressed it well enough here.

Incorrect. You obviously haven't addressed Laurentus's concerns and questions.

I refuse to respect you, period. Because respect is NEVER EVER EVER deserved Gov. I don't care if that's not how you view respect, but for me I will give respect once, if you do things that would make me loose it for you, then you loose it and you have to earn it back. This is final. If you want my thoughts on respect:

However I am of the belief that respect is earned in part, and I will grant respect towards people at first, however if they repeatedly attack people, fail to respect promises, and consistently act in a hypocritical manner along with demanding my respect, then I reserve the right to revoke my respect from them. This session, if I am elected, I will also try to take a step back and not be as involved in the Underhusen as I have been in the past.

which can be found here.

When it comes to your views on respect, you are in the minority here. So ultimately it does not matter what you believe respect is, it matters what nearly everyone else believes it to be. 

Incorrect on all counts @Chanku.  Respect is given to EVERYONE in the region Chanku.  Regardless of how you feel about them.  Every person is a human being, and they deserve respect, and deserve to be treated as a human being at all times.  You have not kept to your promises to respect EVERYONE in the region, or to behave and not disrespect others.   You have ZERO right to lecture me, who is much older than you, or anyone else about respect.   

I am not in the minority here.  I am older and not a millenial.  I was raised old school.

It's simple.  If you want respect, you give respect.   Treat others the way you would like to be treated.  You do not have to follow Judeo-Christian principles to follow basic codes of ethics and honour.

I have done my best to be civil and respectful to everyone, but you have not.  You have disrespected not only myself multiple times, including both Wintermoot and Hannah, but refused to acknowledge that you were ever wrong and apologise for inappropriate behaviour.

You had promised to the region that you learned from the mistakes and that you would respect everyone in the region.  Guess what Chanku, that includes ME, and by your own promise alone, you are obligated to respect me (because everyone includes me, which is fact).  Otherwise, it's just another BROKEN PROMISE you made to the region, which again ruins your credibility and integrity.

No one deserves respect, people deserve the chance to be respected, but they do not deserve inherit respect. Further if you want to talk about broken promises, you have broken your promise to change in the region, to stop blaming others, among others, one of which I will get to in a second.

Yes, actually they do.  People are human beings, they deserve to be treated with basic civil respect.  Don't lecture me about promises Chanku until you clean up your act and honour yours.  The difference between you and me is I'm working on my behaviour.  You refuse to, and make up excuses for EVERYTHING. 

There are multiple in this region who treat EVERYONE with respect, will disagree with me, and may not all be my friends, and they're in YOUR age group.  If they can learn to behave and be respectful to EVERYONE, so can, and SHOULD you, since you PROMISED IT.

This matter is private between both me, Wintermoot, and HannahB. This has been settled between us. This does not concern you and whether or not we have made up is, frankly, none of your business. However since you wish to bring the IRC into this, why don't you address your harassment of Hannah in the IRC and your violation of your probation in the IRC, another broken promise.

My matter, kid, is separate from yours.  You were completely rude and disrespectful to multiple people in the region and ON the channel.  So no, it's not private, it's a public matter that an apology is in order for both of them.  This matter is about solely YOU and YOUR behaviour.  Don't deflect when you can't admit you're wrong.

To my knowledge you haven't. You never really apologized for Pengu for treating him like shit after he basically caused you to not get your Citizenship Revoked by the Storting.

You never really apologized to HannahB for harassing her, and instead still maintain it is HER fault for you doing so.

Once again, this is about you, NOT me.  Stop deflecting when you know you can't admit you're wrong.

Actually, you do attack others. You have, at times, lashed out at the IRC ops for banning you. You have told HannahB, several times, that her taking any action against you is just to humiliate you even when it's deserved.

I didn't attack anyone, especially not like you.  You sent several "fuck you" and "go fuck yourself" to both HannahB and Wintermoot, so come back when you actually apologise for disrespect, because you have no right to lecture me on my behaviour when you committed much worse.

Sure I may have had IRC ban issues, but I don't go on a curse spree and blame things you have the ability to control.  That's what Destiny is for.

The same question can be asked to you. Given that you are the only person in Wintreath to have an indefinite ban from IRC, have had several attempts against your citizenship, and have a history of attacking others, just because you aren't getting your way. Even Wintermoot has acknowledged this.

So if you want to come to me, and bring up things not-involving you that's a personal issue, then that's fine. However this is ultimately the only response I will give here. I am telling you directly, that I will not respond to any more questions like this. Then again we have to consider how much hypocrisy you have for asking me a question like this in the first place

No Chanku it can't.  Criticising someone's actions, behaviour, or policies is not an attack.  Learn to debate properly. 

And no, you're a candidate for a Underhusen position. If you ever wish to have any form of credibility or integrity, much less honour, you would address ALL issues in a manner that those who question your candidacy will find satisfactory.   It is the citizens and voters who determine that, NOT the candidates.

That means, I will ask you questions that will judge your candidacy, just like Laurentus and others did.  You ever want credibility, integrity, and honour, you apologise for your actions to Wintermoot, HannahB, and ESPECIALLY myself, and promise to show respect to EVERYONE in this region, including ME.

Until you do that, your ability to be a viable candidate for Underhusen are as much of a chance as mine to be frankly honest.

There will be a point in some time, at some possibility, we would BOTH get elected.  Your ability to show me respect in the Underhusen, and not belittle  anyone, and actually start honouring your promises, starts with how you conduct your campaign, especially in how you address my questions without refusal.

If you wish to continue this, then please PM me. I will not be responding to any further comments here. Have a nice day

You have acknowledged this, but are refusing to keep personal matters out of my campaign thread. I won't be responding to your post, nor any post of yours, afterwards (aside from this), since you did not keep it out of this thread and take it to PM. Regarldess of w
Which while you have acknowledged it, you are outright refusing to respect my wishes to keep personal matters out of my campaign thread.

Any further pressing on this will be taken as harassment, since I've asked you to drop it and take it elsewhere.

I hope you understand.

Suppressing free speech by threatening harassment for refusing to answer campaign questions is against free speech law.

I have a right to bring up valid concerns and I know you won't respond to them via PM, so that notion is illogical.

The people deserve to have the questions answered, and the concerns I raised are not personal ones, but ones OTHERS in this thread have raised, like @Laurentus and @Sapphiron.

@Govindia, please do not abuse the moderation reporting tool. "Suppressing free speech by threatening harassment for refusing to answer campaign questions." is not something that is actionable by administration.

@Govindia, please do not abuse the moderation reporting tool. "Suppressing free speech by threatening harassment for refusing to answer campaign questions." is not something that is actionable by administration.

I asked him questions that as a candidate he  needs to address and not avoid.  He owes answers to the people and to the voters.  Other people also raised these points he refused to address.