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PASSED (4-1-0-0) Judicial Reform Amendment (Voting)
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Michi
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  • Quote
    Title
    1) This Act shall be cited as the Judicial Reform Amendment Act.

    Provisions
    2) Article I Section 17 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    17. The Storting shall have the authority to create and revise the rules of judicial proceedings for judicial panels.

    3) Article III Section 1 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    1. Upon the filing of cases within the Storting, the Monarch shall select at random a Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen to serve as judges in a judicial panel, provided the selected person is not the plaintiff/defendant. The Peer shall serve as Chief Judge, and the Skrifa shall serve as Associate Judges.  The Monarch is ineligible to serve on judicial panels.

    4) The following shall be added as Article III Section 3:
    Quote
    3. Rulings may be appealed to the Monarch, who shall decide to vacate, modify, or uphold the ruling of the judicial panel. The Monarch shall have the authority to define procedures and rules for hearing and deciding upon appeals, as well as to delegate these authorities to other officials or offices.

    5) The following shall be added as Article III Section 4:
    Quote
    4. Any revocation of Citizenship as a result of a sentence which is conferred or upheld by the Monarch may be overturned by an Act of the Storting if the person whose Citizenship is being revoked requests that it consider doing so within 7 days of the appeal ruling. In the event a revocation is overturned, the initial judicial panel shall determine an alternative sentence. The Storting shall have the authority to define procedures and rules for requesting a sentence of revocation be overturned.

    6) Article VI Section 4 shall be amended as follows:
    Quote
    4. The Winter Nomad and all subordinate administrative officials shall be responsible for protecting Wintreath properties from any content which is illegal, violates the terms of service of the provider of the Wintreath property, or otherwise brings harm to the region or community. Actions taken under this responsibility shall supersede the Declaration of Rights.
    All Skrifa may choose to vote AYE, NAY, or may ABSTAIN from voting.
    « Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 12:39:16 AM by Pengu »
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    Michi
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    HannahB
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  • Aye.
    HannahB
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    Laurentus
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  • Aye.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Laurentus
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    PB
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    Laurentus
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  • Question: could we change one thing before this passes? I'm not fond of the sentence structure in Article III Section 1.

    Instead of saying: "The monarch shall select at random a Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen who are not the plaintiff or defendant...", I would prefer: "The Monarch shall randomly select one Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen, excluding the plaintiff or defendant..."
    « Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 05:43:41 PM by Laurentus »
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Michi
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  • Question: could we change one thing before this passes? I'm not fond of the sentence structure in Article III Section 1.

    Instead of saying: "The monarch shall select at random a Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen who are not the plaintiff or defendant...", I would prefer: "The Monarch shall randomly select one Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen, excluding the plaintiff or defendant..."

    What about "provided the selected person is not the plaintiff/defendant" ?
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    Michi
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    Laurentus
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  • That would also work.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Chanku
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  • Sections may not be edited after voting. However as Section 6 still exists I vote Nay. I initially had a whole thing written but it seems that the others seem to fail to reaslize that something as open ended should never be put into a section that basically makes it unaccountable to anyone.
    See you later space cowboy.
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    Current Positions in Wintreath
    Matriarch of House Kaizer
    Speaker of the 29th Underhusen
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    Positions I've held
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    Member of the WHR
    Speaker of the Underhusen (3rd)
    Speaker Pro Tempore of the Underhusen (1st)
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    Laurentus
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  • The monarch himself is accountable. As he always has been. This is something you don't seem to realise.

    Let's say WM starts abusing his power, power which he has inherently through his position as Admin and Founder of the region, whether we recognise it or not. Would people stand for it? Hell no. They'd simply move to another region or stop playing NS altogether, most likely.

    NS rules actually expect Founders to resolve disputes themselves before mods are drawn in. Why should that practice not get put forward on the forums either?

    The only realistic way to expect a founder not to have absolute power is to join a founderless region.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Chanku
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  • He can not be removed from the position though. Further just because some can move to a new region doesn't mean all can. Also some injustices can occur in which the majority of people would just look the other way because it happened to someone they don't like. Even then this goes against the citizens and is not in the best interests of the citizens.
    See you later space cowboy.
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    Current Positions in Wintreath
    Matriarch of House Kaizer
    Speaker of the 29th Underhusen
    Advisor to the Riksråd
    Positions I've held
    Riksrad(1st Jarl of Information, 3rd Jarl of Foreign Affairs, 2nd Jarl of Defense)
    Member of the WHR
    Speaker of the Underhusen (3rd)
    Speaker Pro Tempore of the Underhusen (1st)
    Underhusen Member (1st-3rd)
    Member of the 5th Overhusen
    Chairman of the 5th Overhusen
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    Mandate Holder for Jarl of Defense
    Member of the 8th Storting (Underhusen)
    Royalty of Wintreath
    Ambassador for the Department of Foreign Affairs.
    Underhusen Terms I've been a part of
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    Kaizer - Matriarch (REFORMED)
    Kestar - Child of Wintermoot (REMOVED)
    Chanku
    Laurentus
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  • Let's ask the citizens then.
    EDIT: Also...
    He can not be removed from the position though. Further just because some can move to a new region doesn't mean all can. Also some injustices can occur in which the majority of people would just look the other way because it happened to someone they don't like. Even then this goes against the citizens and is not in the best interests of the citizens.

    Yeah, he can't be removed, and your point is? And about injustices occurring and people just looking the other way because the parties involved aren't popular: that can happen with any system.

    Law is only as binding as government makes it, and government only stays in power because it takes that power for itself. The dynamics between the real world and a NS region are different, as where in the real world a government that abuses its power gets taken down violently or through some form of force, the Founder is immune. Therefore, if you find yourself in a region with a Founder, you'd best accept that at the end of the day, all power inherently lies with him/her, and if you don't feel like you can trust that person with said power, either through principle or personal distrust, then you should evaluate your options and your motivations for joining a region with a Founder in the first place.
    « Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 12:12:41 AM by Laurentus »
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Chanku
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  • Really. It's a mixture of principle and the fact that it's not that I don't completely trust Wintermoot (although I don't completely trust him in some instances), I do not trust his potential successor.
    See you later space cowboy.
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    Current Positions in Wintreath
    Matriarch of House Kaizer
    Speaker of the 29th Underhusen
    Advisor to the Riksråd
    Positions I've held
    Riksrad(1st Jarl of Information, 3rd Jarl of Foreign Affairs, 2nd Jarl of Defense)
    Member of the WHR
    Speaker of the Underhusen (3rd)
    Speaker Pro Tempore of the Underhusen (1st)
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    Kaizer - Matriarch (REFORMED)
    Kestar - Child of Wintermoot (REMOVED)
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    Laurentus
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  • Well, that is understandable, but still, your distrust is (for lack of a nicer word) irrelevant, because that power is inherently present, to be used or abused by whoever the Monarch might be.

    When you enter a region with a Founder, the Founder is bound by a social contract with all the region's inhabitants to do a fair job, and the Founder can only really be punished for misdeeds by people leaving or being unco-operative. So if it is a level and nice bloke who happened to have founded the region, you have nothing to worry about. As for successors, the same holds true for them. So again I'm not quite seeing the problem. Whether we recognise this or not, WM already has this power.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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    Chanku
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  • WM is also highly observant of the laws of the region. The only main thing preventing him from abusing the power in his eyes is the law. As soon as this is allowed he becomes able to do whatever he wants, because the law allows it. 
    See you later space cowboy.
    Old Signature

     
    Current Positions in Wintreath
    Matriarch of House Kaizer
    Speaker of the 29th Underhusen
    Advisor to the Riksråd
    Positions I've held
    Riksrad(1st Jarl of Information, 3rd Jarl of Foreign Affairs, 2nd Jarl of Defense)
    Member of the WHR
    Speaker of the Underhusen (3rd)
    Speaker Pro Tempore of the Underhusen (1st)
    Underhusen Member (1st-3rd)
    Member of the 5th Overhusen
    Chairman of the 5th Overhusen
    6th Underhusen
    Speaker of the 6th Underhusen
    Mandate Holder for Jarl of Defense
    Member of the 8th Storting (Underhusen)
    Royalty of Wintreath
    Ambassador for the Department of Foreign Affairs.
    Underhusen Terms I've been a part of
    1st Underhusen
    2nd Underhusen
    3rd Underhusen
    6th Underhusen
    8th Underhusen
    Overhusen Terms I've been a part of
    5th Overhusen
    Families I've been a part of
    Kaizer - Matriarch (REFORMED)
    Kestar - Child of Wintermoot (REMOVED)
    Chanku
    Laurentus
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  • How does @Wintermoot respond?
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
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