After the discussion with the rest of the Underhusen ...
Title
1) This Act shall be cited as Revocation of Govindia’s Citizenship.
Call for Govindia’s removal from Wintreath
The Storting recognizes that Citizen Govindia has contributed to the region by actively taking part in elections and showing interest in our political system.
Ill-informed. I had done more than just that. I had served as an ambassador, I've mentored new citizens, and I serve in the WHR, and had been serving loyally in the WHR since I have been here. That's more than just "showing interest in our political system". I also have served on a term on the Underhusen.
Unfortunately, throughout his time in Wintreath, Govindia has persistently disturbed Citizens of Wintreath both in and out of the forums. This is evident in his constant harassment of Citizens in threads, PMs and the IRC chat for what he claims to be “disrespectful” to him. Despite polite requests to cease such behaviour, Govindia continues to bait others into starting arguments and flame anyone who disagrees with him despite the fact that he is often the one who starts the conflict by calling out people who he deems to be verbally attacking him when they are not. In this regard, the Storting acknowledges that Govindia has been previously banned from the IRC chat several times for such behaviour.
I do not bait anyone or deliberately go flame everyone. I am a direct person. I speak to people directly, and I am not passive-aggressive. That is how I have been raised in my life. I also have signs of high-functioning autism, so while "normal" people may interact with others well, I have struggled greatly, and few, if anyone, have made an attempt to help me.
Dealing with autistic people requires a lot of patience and understanding. If someone has a problem with me, they should speak to me about it and work with me to help correct the behaviour. Reprimanding me publicly or yelling at me is not going to help me understand and only will be coming off as a personal attack.
The Storting strongly believes that such behaviour, if remained unchecked, is detrimental to the community as a whole and compromises the very values that Wintreath stands for. It is also recognized that Govindia has been given a considerable number of chances to learn from past mistakes and that he has either willingly or unwilling failed to do so. As a result, the Storting hereby revokes the citizenship of Govindia.
I disagree to an extent. People have not treated me equally here or given me an equal chance here. People have shown that others' feelings have mattered, but never have mine been. If people claim understanding of my feelings, they have no right to justify the poor mistreatment of myself by others. And yes, there have been people who have treated me worse off and gotten away with things.
My feelings matter just as much as anyone else here. This all was brought on by someone who did not communicate well, and expected myself to read his mind, instead of clearly communicating.
I came to him because I was hurt, and needed someone to speak to about how I was feeling. No one made the attempt to explain to me that Pengu was in no position to speak to me. Pengu did it, and he should be blamed for making the situation worse with his passive-aggressive behaviour. Others also saw I was hurting and upset and made no attempt to talk to me either.
Were someone else upset about something going on with them, everyone else would provide sympathy and understanding to them without defending anyone's actions. That does not appear to have happened to me here.
This is an overreaction and a personal attack on my character because of someone's refusal to admit they were wrong in poorly communicating how they were feeling, or what was going on, over text on IRC or whatever other medium. It is not my job to know how someone else is feeling if no one is going to say anything.
It has also been publicly stated by Wintermoot here:
http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1541#msg20872IRC is
NOT UNDER WINTREATH LEGAL JURISDICTION. That is documented fact. Just because it is created does not automatically make it legal jurisdiction.
As an ordinary Citizen who is as distanced from the establishment as can be, I think this revocation is a good idea. This is based on various posts around this forum as well as trust in the members of the Storting.
Blind trust in government is never a good idea, and one must dig deeper, sir.
Revocating the citizenship of a person who has contributed to the community and has been active for a long time seems excessive when the reasoning is mostly his personality.
Solid proof of ill intentions or detrimentalism should be presented (and be required to be presented) when the Storting goes after one of our own. It should also be considered in greater lenght whether the charges outweight not only the past but also the future contributions the indivial can be expected to make.
I urge the members of Storting to consider carefully their role and duties in Wintreath. You are not moderating a forum, you were elected to lead a community. What kind of message would this act send, what kind of community are we?
Agreed.
There was no ill intent. I came to Pengu when I was upset, over the anniversary loss of my pet. You may not care since it's not a person, but that cat was a part of my life as much as any member of my family is, and that was the first cat I raised and lost. People do not understand the ordeal I have been through, nor made an attempt to understand. Everyone else's feelings were forced on me, and no one attempted to show support for mine. This complaint and act is more personal attack and signs of ill intent to do harm to ME than anything I have ever done. I have not intended to harm or plan to cause deliberate harm to anyone else.
But you have to weigh in the other factors as well, such as the fact that his "personality", or in other words his baiting for arguments and constant feeling of pushing so far and not stopping when even asked to rubs off bad on Wintreath in general. I already stated in my final thoughts on the matter in the UH that his doing that in Campaigns is something that scares potential members because they're going to be afraid of being next on his list, and likewise it scares new members from wanting to stay because all they're going to see is someone arguing in threads, and nobody wants to be on a messageboard where there's constant drama happening.
There is no baiting and it shows Pengu understands little about autistic people. I am a logic-based person. If you're going to have me understand something, explain it to me with logic and rationale, rather than emotion. People have been acting more emotional than rational here.
And if I didn't consider anyone else's feelings, I wouldn't have done things like gone out of my way to provide support for Wintermoot when he felt down about something, or when Nox was at a low point, I went out of my way to purchase an exclusive Comic-Con plushie for her to cheer her up.
I may have a personality, that due to my Asperger's, may not get along with everyone, but I have shown I cared for people greatly. However, that, I feel, has not been reciprocated in return.
I am not taking advantage of anything or anyone. All I have wanted was to be part of a community and treated equally with respect like everyone else. I feel like i am being obligated to respect others and others do not reciprocate back. It is give and take. People need to give as much as take. Other people need to do their part too while I've done my best to do my part as well.
Pengu's communication, or lack thereof, is a sign that again, I'm expected to know and understand others, but that understanding is hypocritically not reciprocated. If it was, Pengu would have admitted he should have communicated better and dropped his compliant because his poor communication skills made things worse.
Solid proof of ill intentions or detrimentalism should be presented (and be required to be presented) when the Storting goes after one of our own.
I believe the evidence has already been presented in Pengu's Complaint against Govindia.
The evidence presented in the complaint thread is mostly flimsy at best, as I stated before, as IRC is not under Wintreath legal jurisdiction. Prior case precedence and a direct quote from Wintermoot has stated this.
Well, while I am easily biased on the matter, I cannot deny that Gov is a double-edged sword here in Wintreath. Yes he gets involved with the community and regional politics. However the manner in which he gets involved is not necessarily (and obviously) 100% positive. I may not have been here for long, but I know that he would not have gotten away with what he has in the time that I've been here, were this any other region.
The fact that he's been given countless opportunities to change and failed to do so, tells me that he has no interest in changing and would much rather do his best to be a nuisance to everyone, even Moot himself and still expects to be allowed to do as he pleases is hopelessly--hilariously--misguided. He's been given more chances than any other region would dare give him, more than a year, and he has thrown each of them away. I think the fact that The Stortng is finally putting its foot down is telling him how serious this is.
Despite my obvious bias, I support the revocation of his citizenship. Enough is enough and it's time he answered for his transgressions against this community.
ChurchofSatan's response is not valid in any respect, given his earlier behaviour he admitted to not honouring to defend me in a court case and backed away from it, preferring to engage in bigotry and prejudice, by siding with people who engaged in character defamation about me rather than follow the notion of "innocent until proven guilty"
CoS has not been here long in the region to make an accurate assessment. Furthermore, his credibility is questioned when it's been shown that he has publicly stated in Taijitu that he wanted to extra-judicially ban me from the RIA months ago so he already has ill intent to me.
But this isn't the manner in which Govindia handles situations, as extensively documented, and his baiting and flaming has now forced our hand.
Laurentus once again makes ill-informed and prejudicial statements off of hearsay without getting all sides of the story. I do not go out and actively seek to flame and/or bait anyone. I do not bait anyone.
I am allowed to have viewpoints that disagree with others, and I am passionate about those viewpoints. However, you do not have the right to tell me my feelings are worth less than anyone else's.
Right now, this complaint is basically showing that I am not allowed to express how I feel, because when I seek for support and no one is going to communicate with me, and I am trying to reach out to someone WHO ACTUALLY CARES, that's misconstrued as harassment. If people actually cared about how I feel, they would stop defending the inappropriate actions or poor communication skills of other people.
As I have said elsewhere, the best way for me to understand something is if people speak to me directly. PEngu didn't. Nor did he even acknowledge that I was feeling upset until much later. It goes to show that people only selectively care about others, and that other people's feelings are worth little to them, and that's how I feel I have been treated by PEngu and others here in this thread.
And yes, the fact that Pengu continues to talk to me on IRC, and try to joke with me, it does show that he thinks this is funny, that he doesn't care that I feel hurt and betrayed by his actions, that he won't admit he was wrong with how he did not communicate, and scapegoating me for his failure in that regard.
I expected this behaviour in Spiritus. In fact it's how essentially I have been treated almost as such there. I thought there was a higher standard in Wintreath.
And yes, I have feelings too, just like anyone else.
They matter. Stop saying you understand how I feel when you don't when you say "I understand how you feel, but...". That is a sorry, not sorry post. You claim to understand, but you really don't, you're just continuing to say how I'm solely to blame and others don't share a responsibility for their actions. If you claim to understand how I feel, show that you do, and stop defending others who have not treated me well.
