View Topic

After the discussion with the rest of the Underhusen ...

Title
1) This Act shall be cited as Revocation of Govindia’s Citizenship.

Call for Govindia’s removal from Wintreath
        The Storting recognizes that Citizen Govindia has contributed to the region by actively taking part in elections and showing interest in our political system.

        Unfortunately, throughout his time in Wintreath, Govindia has persistently disturbed Citizens of Wintreath both in and out of the forums. This is evident in his constant harassment of Citizens in threads, PMs and the IRC chat for what he claims to be “disrespectful” to him. Despite polite requests to cease such behaviour, Govindia continues to bait others into starting arguments and flame anyone who disagrees with him despite the fact that he is often the one who starts the conflict by calling out people who he deems to be verbally attacking him when they are not. In this regard, the Storting acknowledges that Govindia has been previously banned from the IRC chat several times for such behaviour. 

        The Storting strongly believes that such behaviour, if remained unchecked, is detrimental to the community as a whole and compromises the very values that Wintreath stands for. It is also recognized that Govindia has been given a considerable number of chances to learn from past mistakes and that he has either willingly or unwilling failed to do so. As a result, the Storting hereby revokes the citizenship of Govindia.

--Deleted post--

Laurentus, it isn't voting time yet.

Understood, thank you.

Someone is anxious I see.  That being said, if it is felt like enough discussion has happened already, you can always make a motion.  Or if you feel we should discuss more for public record, then we can discuss it. 


On that note, I believe my last post in our discussion sums up where I stand on this, even though I won't be voting in this one as I have a personal stake in it.  If someone wants to post my final thoughts in here for public record (as I'm at work), they may do so, otherwise I'll post it after work if a motion hasn't been made.

I think the proposed act says enough. I motion for a vote.

As it hasn't hit the deadline (and in fact was just posted), I believe only a motion to expidite (which essentially pushes it past discussion and to a vote if agreed upon) or table can be made at this time.

Apologies, expiditing waives the 48 hour discussion requirement, so it'd have to be a motion to expidite and then a motion to vote, in that order.  Though I believe they can be combined in two notions in the same post, though I'm not sure.

Just a little reminder only the speaker can motion to expedite under section 3a

On that note, I believe my last post in our discussion sums up where I stand on this, even though I won't be voting in this one as I have a personal stake in it.  If someone wants to post my final thoughts in here for public record (as I'm at work), they may do so, otherwise I'll post it after work if a motion hasn't been made.

Alright, the following is a disclosure of Pengu's comments.

This may be jumping at it a bit late, but this was something I wanted to stress earlier, but couldn't since I was at work and on my phone.

I read through those topics, and I've read through others as well, and I'm starting to very much notice a tend here, specifically when it comes to regions that he's been in.

In a few messageboards including TNP, the Mods and Admins all got together to discuss Govindia's citizenship, and their conversations fell along similar lines as ours.  In fact, I'd like to say that our PM is practically identical to what other regions have done as well.

I'm also noticing that despite the things I've heard those same officials say NOW about him (which are generally quite negative), at one point many of them took similar approaches we did: Issuing informal to formal warnings, worked with him on issues and gave him mountains of chances to settle down on things that he'd refuse to back down upon.  Some mods were very courteous to him, some were strictly business, et cetra, et cetra.  So my question is: Do we want Wintreath to turn out that way as well?  Do we really want the decision of having Gov to eventually push us to where when another region comes up to us and asks about him, we're citing all of these horrible times that he did all of this stuff because we continued to allow him to do it until it was essentially the point of no return?

I understand that Wintreath is a place for second chances, a place for people to learn from their past mistakes and to have a new chance on here.

But to that I ask: What exactly has Gov learned since he's been here?  His behavior on here has been arguably identical to how it was on TNP, and that identical to how it was on Taijitu, and so on.  In all honesty, as much as we've tried to work with him on here, I don't think he's learned a thing except that we're letting him get away with the things he does, because he's been getting continuous slaps on the wrists outside of the chat-bans (which he responded very negatively to in his persisting to Mooty to overturn it and saying he was in the wrong for issuing it).

He toes the line well enough to where it's never exactly "Ban" worthy, but he's shown that he:

1) Has absolutely no objections to turning absolutely any subject into something about him (which is more an annoyance than anything else)
2) Will not hesitate to ask everyone who walks into the room (IRC for example) to look at something/talk about something/talk to him, when they may not want to do any of those things (IE, pinging everyone that walked in IRC yesterday to look at his picture of his cat, asking everyone who pops up in a thread what they think about what he posted)
3) Will equally not hesitate to INSIST upon you doing what #2 states (via repeated pinging in main chat and Query chat as well as using Zaphyr even when you're online, quoting you in threads to make sure you know that he wants you to tell him what you think)
4) Will constantly bait others into starting arguments with him over little things (IE saying things such as "such and such, the person I thought cared obviously doesn't")
5) Will not hesitate to flame others including the Monarch himself, and will be the first to cry foul when others do it to him.
6) Will not stop until the other person completely submits and says that he's in the right, even if he's not.  Even if asked to stop repeatedly, whether by the person he's harassing or by others, he has shown that he will continue until his feelings are met, regardless of the other person's.  This includes IRC chats, threads, and badgering in PMs.
7) Will not own up to his mistakes.  He'll sooner call you out for not responding how he wants you to (or at all, period) rather than realize that his badgering is the real problem (IE, his tendency to call people passive aggressive when they choose not to respond to him).

So really, I just have to ask what is the benefit of having him on here anymore?  At first I can see how it looked like a great idea, and sure, he has his good moments, such as being interested in our politics and his occasional non-baiting/argumentative posts.  But throughout his time on Wintreath, he's done nothing but lose his biggest supporters and alienate himself from many members, potentially scare future candidates from running in the UH because of how he'll go after candidates he doesn't agree with, and potentially scare away new members from wanting to stay because of his arguments that he'll either start himself, or bait others into starting...and we're talking about in practically any thread anywhere on Wintreath.  In all honestly, he's done more harm than good because he either is incapable of changing, or he's just choosing not to.

Every decision made should be with the best interest of Wintreath in mind, and those decisions should be something that will benefit all of us in a positive way.  So again I ask, what's the benefit of continuing to allow Govindia to stay when he's been more toxic to the region than anything else?

Just a little reminder only the speaker can motion to expedite under section 3a

Oh?  That's news to me. That might be something to change since in instances like this, it'd be inappropriate for the Speaker to call for this motion.

That being said, do any others outside of Laurentus wish this to be expidited?

I would be for this being expedited. Discussion has occurred.

I'm going to assume @Laurentus is as well since he was eager to vote.  What about you @Sapphiron and @Point Breeze ?

Assuming I say yes, how long does voting last?

Voting lasts for one week, or until enough votes are cast in the majority to pass it or to fail it.

Then I say yes, I would like Pengu to expedite.