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Citizenship duration amendment
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taulover
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  • Quote from: Chanku
    However, the vagueness was written on purpose in order to give the Storting and the community the ability to grant it on a more case-by-case basis.
    Hence why the most popular suggestion currently is removing the vague and restrictive stipulation that the person must be "an outstanding member of the region."

    You've said that removing that would allow the Storting to allow any new member to be granted this exemption, but as people have said in the Discord, that's unlikely to ever happen by vote of the Storting. Additionally, removing this restriction would give even more opportunity to decide exemptions on a case-by-case basis, since they wouldn't be forced to look back at the intent of that vague statement when making their decision.
    Résumé
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 8 April 2015 - present
    From the Ashes RP Game Master: 29 November 2015 - 24 July 2018
    Skydande Vakt Marshal: 29 November 2015 - 28 February 2017
    Skrifa of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    RP Guild Councillor: 9 February 2016 - 6 March 2018
    Ambassador to Lovely: 23 February 2016 - 17 August 2016
    Werewolf VII co-host: 11 May 2016 - 5 June 2016
    Skrifa of the 18th Underhusen: 8 October 2016 - 7 December 2016
    Ambassador to Balder: 1 December 2016 - 1 March 2022
    Skrifa of the 19th Underhusen: 7 December 2016 - 9 February 2017
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    Thane of Integration: 29 September 2017 - 7 March 2018
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    October 2017 Wintreath's Finest: 4 November 2017
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    Second Patriarch of the Noble House of Valeria: 10 October 2018 - present
    Arena Game 6 Host: 28 December 2018 - 9 March 2019
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    March 2019 Wintreath's Finest: 4 April 2019
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    Aura Hyperia/New Hyperion:
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    Patrician: 21 July 2014 - present
    Adeptus Mechanicus: 24 October 2014 - 16 November 2014
    Co-founder of New Hyperion: 29 October 2014 - present
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    taulover
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    Laurentus
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  • Count of Highever
  • @Chanku, you do realise we didn't shoot down the bill because we wanted this power with the monarch? Where did we ever state this in the reasoning for our vote?

    That suggestion of mine was a personal opinion, and not representative of the OH as a whole.
    1 person likes this post: taulover
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
    Laurentus
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    taulover
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  • Just making sure (so I don't put any false info on the Orendi), the below bill is a new one, and as a result needs to now pass the Overhusen?
    http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=5093.0

    @Wuufu @Dawsinian
    1 person likes this post: Wuufu
    Résumé
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 8 April 2015 - present
    From the Ashes RP Game Master: 29 November 2015 - 24 July 2018
    Skydande Vakt Marshal: 29 November 2015 - 28 February 2017
    Skrifa of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    RP Guild Councillor: 9 February 2016 - 6 March 2018
    Ambassador to Lovely: 23 February 2016 - 17 August 2016
    Werewolf VII co-host: 11 May 2016 - 5 June 2016
    Skrifa of the 18th Underhusen: 8 October 2016 - 7 December 2016
    Ambassador to Balder: 1 December 2016 - 1 March 2022
    Skrifa of the 19th Underhusen: 7 December 2016 - 9 February 2017
    Ambassador to the INWU: 11 March 2017 - 1 March 2022
    Ambassador to the Versutian Federation: 18 August 2017 - 22 March 2018
    Thane of Integration: 29 September 2017 - 7 March 2018
    Speaker of the 24th Underhusen: 10 October 2017 - 7 December 2017
    October 2017 Wintreath's Finest: 4 November 2017
    Speaker pro tempore of the 25th Underhusen: 9 December 2017 - 7 February 2018
    Wintreath's Finest of 2017: 6 January 2018
    Werewolf XIV host: 20 January 2018 - 23 February 2018
    February 2018 Wintreath's Finest: 5 March 2018
    Thane of Embassy Dispatches / Foreign Releases and Information / Foreign Dispatches: 7 March 2018 - 15 March 2020
    Speaker of the 28th Underhusen: 10 June 2018 - 7 August 2018
    Second Patriarch of the Noble House of Valeria: 10 October 2018 - present
    Arena Game 6 Host: 28 December 2018 - 9 March 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 29 January 2019 - 12 February 2019
    Speaker of the 32nd Underhusen: 12 February 2019 - 8 April 2019
    March 2019 Wintreath's Finest: 4 April 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 12 April 2019 - 23 October 2020
    Commendation of Wintreath: 24 September 2020
    Peer of the Overhusen: 9 December 2020 - 8 February 2021
    Vice Chancellor of the Landsraad: 26 May 2021 - 15 September 2022
    Arena Game 8 Host: 10 June 2021 - 19 July 2021
    June 2021 Wintreath's Finest: 5 July 2021
    Regional Stability Squad: 28 February 2023 - present
    Minecraft Server Admin: 8 March 2023 - present

    Aura Hyperia/New Hyperion:
    Plebeian: 16 April 2014 - 21 July 2014
    Patrician: 21 July 2014 - present
    Adeptus Mechanicus: 24 October 2014 - 16 November 2014
    Co-founder of New Hyperion: 29 October 2014 - present
    Lord of Propaganda: 16 November 2014 - present
    Mapmaker for Official Region RP: 27 November 2015 - present
    WACom Delegate: 11 November 2017 - present
    Other positions: Hyperian Guardsman, Hyperian Marine (Rank: Scout)
    taulover
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    Dawsinian
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  • Just making sure (so I don't put any false info on the Orendi), the below bill is a new one, and as a result needs to now pass the Overhusen?
    http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=5093.0

    @Wuufu @Dawsinian

    Correct.
    1 person likes this post: taulover
    Dawsinian
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    taulover
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  • @Laurentus Crushita isn't really the author of the bill currently at vote in the Overhusen, he just removed the outstanding member requirement.

    Chanku titled the vote thread in the Underhusen with "Crush" despite that not being in the title of the bill, much to the annoyance of some of the Skrifa on the Discord at the time. And then Wuufu copied over the topic title for some reason...
    Résumé
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 8 April 2015 - present
    From the Ashes RP Game Master: 29 November 2015 - 24 July 2018
    Skydande Vakt Marshal: 29 November 2015 - 28 February 2017
    Skrifa of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    RP Guild Councillor: 9 February 2016 - 6 March 2018
    Ambassador to Lovely: 23 February 2016 - 17 August 2016
    Werewolf VII co-host: 11 May 2016 - 5 June 2016
    Skrifa of the 18th Underhusen: 8 October 2016 - 7 December 2016
    Ambassador to Balder: 1 December 2016 - 1 March 2022
    Skrifa of the 19th Underhusen: 7 December 2016 - 9 February 2017
    Ambassador to the INWU: 11 March 2017 - 1 March 2022
    Ambassador to the Versutian Federation: 18 August 2017 - 22 March 2018
    Thane of Integration: 29 September 2017 - 7 March 2018
    Speaker of the 24th Underhusen: 10 October 2017 - 7 December 2017
    October 2017 Wintreath's Finest: 4 November 2017
    Speaker pro tempore of the 25th Underhusen: 9 December 2017 - 7 February 2018
    Wintreath's Finest of 2017: 6 January 2018
    Werewolf XIV host: 20 January 2018 - 23 February 2018
    February 2018 Wintreath's Finest: 5 March 2018
    Thane of Embassy Dispatches / Foreign Releases and Information / Foreign Dispatches: 7 March 2018 - 15 March 2020
    Speaker of the 28th Underhusen: 10 June 2018 - 7 August 2018
    Second Patriarch of the Noble House of Valeria: 10 October 2018 - present
    Arena Game 6 Host: 28 December 2018 - 9 March 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 29 January 2019 - 12 February 2019
    Speaker of the 32nd Underhusen: 12 February 2019 - 8 April 2019
    March 2019 Wintreath's Finest: 4 April 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 12 April 2019 - 23 October 2020
    Commendation of Wintreath: 24 September 2020
    Peer of the Overhusen: 9 December 2020 - 8 February 2021
    Vice Chancellor of the Landsraad: 26 May 2021 - 15 September 2022
    Arena Game 8 Host: 10 June 2021 - 19 July 2021
    June 2021 Wintreath's Finest: 5 July 2021
    Regional Stability Squad: 28 February 2023 - present
    Minecraft Server Admin: 8 March 2023 - present

    Aura Hyperia/New Hyperion:
    Plebeian: 16 April 2014 - 21 July 2014
    Patrician: 21 July 2014 - present
    Adeptus Mechanicus: 24 October 2014 - 16 November 2014
    Co-founder of New Hyperion: 29 October 2014 - present
    Lord of Propaganda: 16 November 2014 - present
    Mapmaker for Official Region RP: 27 November 2015 - present
    WACom Delegate: 11 November 2017 - present
    Other positions: Hyperian Guardsman, Hyperian Marine (Rank: Scout)
    taulover
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    Laurentus
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  • I see. Well then, anyone in the UH is welcome to comment.
    In die donker ure skink net duiwels nog 'n dop, 
    Satan sit saam sy kinders en kyk hoe kom die son op. 
    • Count of Highever
    Laurentus
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    Michi
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  • Level 167 Caticorn God of Destruction
  • Actually, I have a thought which I talked to Doc about on Discord, and I'll bring it up here.

    Rather than leaving it intentionally vague and creating a potential problem which you're already trying to avoid when it comes to the situation of flexibility (and since this next bill is pretty much dead in the water), how about this?

    Remove the idea of "in good standing with the community" altogether.  There's no proper way to define it, and leaving it up to the discretion of the Storting might ensure it would never pass since what one body may believe, the other body may not.

    Instead, add a time period before citizens can apply for an exemption when they take a leave.  Maybe a month, maybe two months, but at minimum it should be a month.  A month is at least enough time for a citizen to get both immersed in our culture as well as having already decided if they want to stay with us indefinitely.

    Likewise, clamp down on what "Extraordinary circumstances" are.

    I mean, like I told Doc, you could always word it like:

    "Extraordinary circumstances are those that prevent a person from maintaining their citizenship in Wintreath long enough for their citizenship to expire.  Situations can include, but are not limited to: natural disasters, extreme weather, severe illness, extended hospital care, military related such as training or deployment to an area with no internet access, extended stay in a place with no internet access, and the loss of a main source of income."

    And likewise, you could always even add a bit that says

    "Exemptions requested for personal leave in which a person has access to the internet at any time will not be granted."  Or you can even say "will be granted on a case by case basis" if you don't want to completely shut them out.

    Personally though, I think if you're going for the "extraordinary circumstances," then it should specifically be limited to situations that bar a person from using the internet, as opposed to situations in which the person just chooses not to come online long enough for their citizenship to expire.

    Short version: Rather than gauging as to who, the focus is more on the aspect of why someone is needing the exemption in the first place.  It shouldn't matter that someone is a pillar of the community.  It should matter that they're someone who is clearly here to be here and has been here long enough to establish that they want to be here, and it should matter that they're not choosing to leave here for an extended period of time...the situation is just forcing that outcome on them.

    This prevents having to constantly debate who gets exemptions, why person A is more deserving than person B, and closes the door on potential bad precedents being set.
    3 people like this post: Barnes, Doc, Laurentus
    « Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 03:11:20 AM by Pengu »
    My Wintreath Resumé
    Michi
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    taulover
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  • @Pengu one issue I have with the wording of your proposal is that not all citizens are involved in NS.
    Résumé
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 8 April 2015 - present
    From the Ashes RP Game Master: 29 November 2015 - 24 July 2018
    Skydande Vakt Marshal: 29 November 2015 - 28 February 2017
    Skrifa of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    RP Guild Councillor: 9 February 2016 - 6 March 2018
    Ambassador to Lovely: 23 February 2016 - 17 August 2016
    Werewolf VII co-host: 11 May 2016 - 5 June 2016
    Skrifa of the 18th Underhusen: 8 October 2016 - 7 December 2016
    Ambassador to Balder: 1 December 2016 - 1 March 2022
    Skrifa of the 19th Underhusen: 7 December 2016 - 9 February 2017
    Ambassador to the INWU: 11 March 2017 - 1 March 2022
    Ambassador to the Versutian Federation: 18 August 2017 - 22 March 2018
    Thane of Integration: 29 September 2017 - 7 March 2018
    Speaker of the 24th Underhusen: 10 October 2017 - 7 December 2017
    October 2017 Wintreath's Finest: 4 November 2017
    Speaker pro tempore of the 25th Underhusen: 9 December 2017 - 7 February 2018
    Wintreath's Finest of 2017: 6 January 2018
    Werewolf XIV host: 20 January 2018 - 23 February 2018
    February 2018 Wintreath's Finest: 5 March 2018
    Thane of Embassy Dispatches / Foreign Releases and Information / Foreign Dispatches: 7 March 2018 - 15 March 2020
    Speaker of the 28th Underhusen: 10 June 2018 - 7 August 2018
    Second Patriarch of the Noble House of Valeria: 10 October 2018 - present
    Arena Game 6 Host: 28 December 2018 - 9 March 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 29 January 2019 - 12 February 2019
    Speaker of the 32nd Underhusen: 12 February 2019 - 8 April 2019
    March 2019 Wintreath's Finest: 4 April 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 12 April 2019 - 23 October 2020
    Commendation of Wintreath: 24 September 2020
    Peer of the Overhusen: 9 December 2020 - 8 February 2021
    Vice Chancellor of the Landsraad: 26 May 2021 - 15 September 2022
    Arena Game 8 Host: 10 June 2021 - 19 July 2021
    June 2021 Wintreath's Finest: 5 July 2021
    Regional Stability Squad: 28 February 2023 - present
    Minecraft Server Admin: 8 March 2023 - present

    Aura Hyperia/New Hyperion:
    Plebeian: 16 April 2014 - 21 July 2014
    Patrician: 21 July 2014 - present
    Adeptus Mechanicus: 24 October 2014 - 16 November 2014
    Co-founder of New Hyperion: 29 October 2014 - present
    Lord of Propaganda: 16 November 2014 - present
    Mapmaker for Official Region RP: 27 November 2015 - present
    WACom Delegate: 11 November 2017 - present
    Other positions: Hyperian Guardsman, Hyperian Marine (Rank: Scout)
    taulover
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    Michi
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  • Level 167 Caticorn God of Destruction
  • @Pengu one issue I have with the wording of your proposal is that not all citizens are involved in NS.

    That was the original wording on the previous proposals as well.

    But it's been edited, since it should have said "Wintreath" in the first place.
    1 person likes this post: taulover
    « Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 11:24:51 PM by Pengu »
    My Wintreath Resumé
    Michi
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