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[DISCUSSION] Fundamental Laws Amendment XII
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Katie
  • Former Citizen
  • The Cheese
  • Quote
    Title
    1. This act is to be cited as the Fundamental Laws Amendment XII

    Amendments
    2. Article VII of the Fundamental Laws is re-titled as "Amendments"
    3. Article VII, Section 2 of the Fundamental Laws is amended to read as follows:
    Quote
    The Storting shall have the authority to propose amendments to these Fundamental Laws by a two-thirds supermajority vote of both the Underhusen and Overhusen.
    4. Article VII, Section 3 of the Fundamental Laws is amended to read as follows:
    Quote
    Any amendment to these Fundamental Laws passed by the Storting is considered ratified if approved by both the Monarch and by a two-thirds supermajority in favor of the Citizens of Wintreath voting at referendum.
    Lady Katherine Ostergaard
    Countess of Osterfell, Matriarch of the Noble House of Ostergaard


    Resumé
    Contact
    Discord: Katie#3933

    Wintreath
      • Fmr. Thane of WA Affairs
      • Fmr. Jarl of Foreign Affairs
      • Fmr. Skrifa in the 29th-34th & 36th Sessions of the Underhusen
      • Fmr. Officer of Information in the 29th-34th Sessions of the Underhusen
      • Fmr. Speaker Pro Tempore in the 33rd Underhusen
      • Fmr. Thane of Integration
      • Fmr. Thane of Embassies

    Other
    • Fmr. Councillor of World Assembly Affairs in Cynosure
    • Fmr. Outreach Officer of the Rejected Realms
    • Fmr. Kaetunet of the 1st House of Commons of the Holy Reich of Bunicken
    • Fmr. Grand Councillor in Grand Central
    • Fmr. Local Councillor in the South Pacific
    Katie
    • The Cheese
    • Posts: 730
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    • hoh
    • Former Citizen
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    taulover
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • Seeker of Knowledge
  • Missing period in #2
    Résumé
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 8 April 2015 - present
    From the Ashes RP Game Master: 29 November 2015 - 24 July 2018
    Skydande Vakt Marshal: 29 November 2015 - 28 February 2017
    Skrifa of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    RP Guild Councillor: 9 February 2016 - 6 March 2018
    Ambassador to Lovely: 23 February 2016 - 17 August 2016
    Werewolf VII co-host: 11 May 2016 - 5 June 2016
    Skrifa of the 18th Underhusen: 8 October 2016 - 7 December 2016
    Ambassador to Balder: 1 December 2016 - 1 March 2022
    Skrifa of the 19th Underhusen: 7 December 2016 - 9 February 2017
    Ambassador to the INWU: 11 March 2017 - 1 March 2022
    Ambassador to the Versutian Federation: 18 August 2017 - 22 March 2018
    Thane of Integration: 29 September 2017 - 7 March 2018
    Speaker of the 24th Underhusen: 10 October 2017 - 7 December 2017
    October 2017 Wintreath's Finest: 4 November 2017
    Speaker pro tempore of the 25th Underhusen: 9 December 2017 - 7 February 2018
    Wintreath's Finest of 2017: 6 January 2018
    Werewolf XIV host: 20 January 2018 - 23 February 2018
    February 2018 Wintreath's Finest: 5 March 2018
    Thane of Embassy Dispatches / Foreign Releases and Information / Foreign Dispatches: 7 March 2018 - 15 March 2020
    Speaker of the 28th Underhusen: 10 June 2018 - 7 August 2018
    Second Patriarch of the Noble House of Valeria: 10 October 2018 - present
    Arena Game 6 Host: 28 December 2018 - 9 March 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 29 January 2019 - 12 February 2019
    Speaker of the 32nd Underhusen: 12 February 2019 - 8 April 2019
    March 2019 Wintreath's Finest: 4 April 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 12 April 2019 - 23 October 2020
    Commendation of Wintreath: 24 September 2020
    Peer of the Overhusen: 9 December 2020 - 8 February 2021
    Vice Chancellor of the Landsraad: 26 May 2021 - 15 September 2022
    Arena Game 8 Host: 10 June 2021 - 19 July 2021
    June 2021 Wintreath's Finest: 5 July 2021
    Regional Stability Squad: 28 February 2023 - present
    Minecraft Server Admin: 8 March 2023 - present

    Aura Hyperia/New Hyperion:
    Plebeian: 16 April 2014 - 21 July 2014
    Patrician: 21 July 2014 - present
    Adeptus Mechanicus: 24 October 2014 - 16 November 2014
    Co-founder of New Hyperion: 29 October 2014 - present
    Lord of Propaganda: 16 November 2014 - present
    Mapmaker for Official Region RP: 27 November 2015 - present
    WACom Delegate: 11 November 2017 - present
    Other positions: Hyperian Guardsman, Hyperian Marine (Rank: Scout)
    taulover
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    Katie
  • Former Citizen
  • The Cheese
  • Lady Katherine Ostergaard
    Countess of Osterfell, Matriarch of the Noble House of Ostergaard


    Resumé
    Contact
    Discord: Katie#3933

    Wintreath
      • Fmr. Thane of WA Affairs
      • Fmr. Jarl of Foreign Affairs
      • Fmr. Skrifa in the 29th-34th & 36th Sessions of the Underhusen
      • Fmr. Officer of Information in the 29th-34th Sessions of the Underhusen
      • Fmr. Speaker Pro Tempore in the 33rd Underhusen
      • Fmr. Thane of Integration
      • Fmr. Thane of Embassies

    Other
    • Fmr. Councillor of World Assembly Affairs in Cynosure
    • Fmr. Outreach Officer of the Rejected Realms
    • Fmr. Kaetunet of the 1st House of Commons of the Holy Reich of Bunicken
    • Fmr. Grand Councillor in Grand Central
    • Fmr. Local Councillor in the South Pacific
    Katie
    • The Cheese
    • Posts: 730
    • Karma: 722
    • hoh
    • Former Citizen
    • Pronouns
      She/Her/Hers
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      Ostergaard
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Wintermoot
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • The Greyscale Magi-Monk
  • Unless I'm missing something, this just looks like a change in styling to me, given that the Fundamental Laws is the constitution of Wintreath.


    I went all the way to Cassadega to commune with the dead
    They said "You'd better look alive"
    Wintermoot
    • The Greyscale Magi-Monk
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    trader
  • Former Citizen
  • Wintreath's Unofficial Official Merchant
  • A change in styling isn't important, this update doesn't change the way the law functions enough (or at all) to justify the amendment, at least based on my understanding of the law.
    Remember, there is no reason to panic, nothing is on fire.
    trader
    • Wintreath's Unofficial Official Merchant
    • Posts: 303
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    • Mercury 'trader' Kestar
    • Former Citizen
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    trader
  • Former Citizen
  • Wintreath's Unofficial Official Merchant
  • These are the fundamental laws we're dealing with, as Mootles said, and I don't think that a minor cosmetic update justifies a change. Possibly attaching this to an Omnibus bill fixing minor issues in other areas of the legislature would be more appropriate.
    Remember, there is no reason to panic, nothing is on fire.
    trader
    • Wintreath's Unofficial Official Merchant
    • Posts: 303
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    Chanku
  • Citizen
  •  This bill is moderately important, in my opinion and is a bit more than just cosmetic. You see, the Fundamental Laws themselves never refer to themselves as a constitution, and the ONLY section where "constitution" is used is in Article VII, additionally, it uses the term "the Constitution", which implies that there is a separate document that is the constitution. Throughout the rest of the document the use of "these Fundamental Laws" is used (except for in Article II, Section 6 which uses the term "this document"). This means that there is a legal argument that there is another, perhaps unwritten, constitution within Wintreath that is above the Fundamental Laws as the Fundamental Laws refers to a constitution, but does not state that the "constitution" it refers to is in fact itself. The exception in Article II, Section 6 is passable because it makes it clear it refers to the Fundamental Laws itself, although it should still be amended to read "these Fundamental Laws" as opposed to "this document". The rest of the changes are mostly cosmetic though.

    So, I do hope that you do understand that there is a bit of a legal question with the current wording, which due to its different nature, could lead to potential concerns over what "the Constitution" is, even though the Fundamental Laws is our constitution (and we commonly refer to it as such.)
    See you later space cowboy.
    Old Signature

     
    Current Positions in Wintreath
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    Speaker of the 29th Underhusen
    Advisor to the Riksråd
    Positions I've held
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    Member of the WHR
    Speaker of the Underhusen (3rd)
    Speaker Pro Tempore of the Underhusen (1st)
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    Kestar - Child of Wintermoot (REMOVED)
    Chanku
    trader
  • Former Citizen
  • Wintreath's Unofficial Official Merchant
  • Seems like this is a widespread issue then...

    I guess there are 2 possible solutions:

    1) Pass a bill defining our constitution as being the Fundamental Laws

    2) an Omnibus bill correcting these mistakes
    Remember, there is no reason to panic, nothing is on fire.
    trader
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    Katie
  • Former Citizen
  • The Cheese
  • Seems like this is a widespread issue then...

    I guess there are 2 possible solutions:

    1) Pass a bill defining our constitution as being the Fundamental Laws

    2) an Omnibus bill correcting these mistakes

    I feel like the former option makes more sense, as this was the only real issue I saw in Chanku's post.
    Lady Katherine Ostergaard
    Countess of Osterfell, Matriarch of the Noble House of Ostergaard


    Resumé
    Contact
    Discord: Katie#3933

    Wintreath
      • Fmr. Thane of WA Affairs
      • Fmr. Jarl of Foreign Affairs
      • Fmr. Skrifa in the 29th-34th & 36th Sessions of the Underhusen
      • Fmr. Officer of Information in the 29th-34th Sessions of the Underhusen
      • Fmr. Speaker Pro Tempore in the 33rd Underhusen
      • Fmr. Thane of Integration
      • Fmr. Thane of Embassies

    Other
    • Fmr. Councillor of World Assembly Affairs in Cynosure
    • Fmr. Outreach Officer of the Rejected Realms
    • Fmr. Kaetunet of the 1st House of Commons of the Holy Reich of Bunicken
    • Fmr. Grand Councillor in Grand Central
    • Fmr. Local Councillor in the South Pacific
    Katie
    • The Cheese
    • Posts: 730
    • Karma: 722
    • hoh
    • Former Citizen
    • Pronouns
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      Familial House
      Ostergaard
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Chanku
  • Citizen
  • I would not be very open to doing the former option, as the term Constitution only appears in that Section of the Fundamental Laws, no where else in our laws is that name mentioned, as such it could be viewed as an attempt to amend the Fundamental Laws without actually amending it.

    Also I would like to point out that it is not like we have had an amendment that is basically just a styling amendment, an example of this is the The Royal Titles and Styles Act which is basically just amending the Preamble of the Fundamental Laws with it amending or changing nothing else.
    See you later space cowboy.
    Old Signature

     
    Current Positions in Wintreath
    Matriarch of House Kaizer
    Speaker of the 29th Underhusen
    Advisor to the Riksråd
    Positions I've held
    Riksrad(1st Jarl of Information, 3rd Jarl of Foreign Affairs, 2nd Jarl of Defense)
    Member of the WHR
    Speaker of the Underhusen (3rd)
    Speaker Pro Tempore of the Underhusen (1st)
    Underhusen Member (1st-3rd)
    Member of the 5th Overhusen
    Chairman of the 5th Overhusen
    6th Underhusen
    Speaker of the 6th Underhusen
    Mandate Holder for Jarl of Defense
    Member of the 8th Storting (Underhusen)
    Royalty of Wintreath
    Ambassador for the Department of Foreign Affairs.
    Underhusen Terms I've been a part of
    1st Underhusen
    2nd Underhusen
    3rd Underhusen
    6th Underhusen
    8th Underhusen
    Overhusen Terms I've been a part of
    5th Overhusen
    Families I've been a part of
    Kaizer - Matriarch (REFORMED)
    Kestar - Child of Wintermoot (REMOVED)
    Chanku
    taulover
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • Seeker of Knowledge
  • Reiterating my concern on lack of periods in #1 and #2.

    If the current bill at vote passes the Storting, I will probably be voting Nay in the referendum for this reason.
    Résumé
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 8 April 2015 - present
    From the Ashes RP Game Master: 29 November 2015 - 24 July 2018
    Skydande Vakt Marshal: 29 November 2015 - 28 February 2017
    Skrifa of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    RP Guild Councillor: 9 February 2016 - 6 March 2018
    Ambassador to Lovely: 23 February 2016 - 17 August 2016
    Werewolf VII co-host: 11 May 2016 - 5 June 2016
    Skrifa of the 18th Underhusen: 8 October 2016 - 7 December 2016
    Ambassador to Balder: 1 December 2016 - 1 March 2022
    Skrifa of the 19th Underhusen: 7 December 2016 - 9 February 2017
    Ambassador to the INWU: 11 March 2017 - 1 March 2022
    Ambassador to the Versutian Federation: 18 August 2017 - 22 March 2018
    Thane of Integration: 29 September 2017 - 7 March 2018
    Speaker of the 24th Underhusen: 10 October 2017 - 7 December 2017
    October 2017 Wintreath's Finest: 4 November 2017
    Speaker pro tempore of the 25th Underhusen: 9 December 2017 - 7 February 2018
    Wintreath's Finest of 2017: 6 January 2018
    Werewolf XIV host: 20 January 2018 - 23 February 2018
    February 2018 Wintreath's Finest: 5 March 2018
    Thane of Embassy Dispatches / Foreign Releases and Information / Foreign Dispatches: 7 March 2018 - 15 March 2020
    Speaker of the 28th Underhusen: 10 June 2018 - 7 August 2018
    Second Patriarch of the Noble House of Valeria: 10 October 2018 - present
    Arena Game 6 Host: 28 December 2018 - 9 March 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 29 January 2019 - 12 February 2019
    Speaker of the 32nd Underhusen: 12 February 2019 - 8 April 2019
    March 2019 Wintreath's Finest: 4 April 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 12 April 2019 - 23 October 2020
    Commendation of Wintreath: 24 September 2020
    Peer of the Overhusen: 9 December 2020 - 8 February 2021
    Vice Chancellor of the Landsraad: 26 May 2021 - 15 September 2022
    Arena Game 8 Host: 10 June 2021 - 19 July 2021
    June 2021 Wintreath's Finest: 5 July 2021
    Regional Stability Squad: 28 February 2023 - present
    Minecraft Server Admin: 8 March 2023 - present

    Aura Hyperia/New Hyperion:
    Plebeian: 16 April 2014 - 21 July 2014
    Patrician: 21 July 2014 - present
    Adeptus Mechanicus: 24 October 2014 - 16 November 2014
    Co-founder of New Hyperion: 29 October 2014 - present
    Lord of Propaganda: 16 November 2014 - present
    Mapmaker for Official Region RP: 27 November 2015 - present
    WACom Delegate: 11 November 2017 - present
    Other positions: Hyperian Guardsman, Hyperian Marine (Rank: Scout)
    taulover
    • Seeker of Knowledge
    • Posts: 13,222
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    • Regional Stability Squad
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