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Youth Rights
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Reon
  • Former Citizen
  • Yep, argue with the age of total consent, not the youth rights... It's a way more viable argument.
    Also adults hurt themselves with the 3ds. Video game addictions are quite the bitch and when it's easier to do that then it is to learn or grow you often will.
    PB responded to your point about schools and I'm inclined to agree with him.
    Literally people get killed for believing the wrong shit. Happens all the time. People die. Here. In America. That shit happens. Speaking your mind before you can even sign a fucking paper? Dangerous.
    Yep, that's true. In some places it is much much harder to get emancipated. And in that case you should fight those places rules about emancipation, still not youth rights.
    And yes, I agree. Authoritarian parents are dicks. Really quite unnecessary. I'll remind you that I come from possibly the most fucking insane family in this place.
    HOWEVER! You can't half legislate. You can't discriminate against certain beliefs and certain ways of parenting, that would be intensely difficult. Even now the few times we do step in on parenting, as a government, it's poorly handled and sometimes the children get totally fucked.
    So which would be worse? A certain amount of children having a bad time in their childhood where they can't be helped? Or all children being able to totally fuck up their entire lives at the age of 13 and there being nothing anyone can do to save them from that?
    You can't half-legislate... So that's the decision you make.
    Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are.
    Reon
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    Seroim
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  • Quote
    As a minor I'm forced to go to school where my rights are, for the most part, stripped. I have

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    no right against self incrimination

    The protection against self-incrimination is only relevant in criminal proceedings. You do not have that protection in school, not because you're at school or because you're a minor, but because you aren't in a court of law or dealing with police.

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    no right to assemble

    What are you talking about? Students come together all the time for a variety of purposes. There even is such a thing as a student union.

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    limited(or no) freedom of speech

    You have the very same limits on freedom of speech at school as you do anywhere else. It isn't an absolute right. Do you think adults can drop f-bombs at work? Do you think there are no dress codes at work? Do you realize how lucky you are to be at school and to be able to dress in a t-shirt and jeans while nearly every professional has to be stuffed in a suit even in 30C weather?

    It pisses me off to no end to see teens whining about the dress code. It'll be that way for the rest of your life and in fact, it'll only get worse. Get used to it.

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    anything of mine could be taken and searched.

    Um, no. School officials must have a reasonable reason to search you, and even then, there are some lengths that they cannot go to. Of course, it doesn't take a warrant or any other legal authorization to search a student's stuff, but that's because of the unique environment of a school. Still, school officials can't just decide to randomly search your stuff.

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    As a minor my parents can force me and punish me for being of a different/no belief system. They can punish me for not wanting to go to a religious place with them. They can take any item, even if I bought it with money that I got from a job, and prevent my access to it. 

    Uh, yeah. That's because the US Constitution, well almost every constitution or Bill of Rights-type document really, only applies to the interactions between a private citizen and the government or its agents. Parents, even other people treating you like shit because of your religion isn't unconstitutional. It's not because you're a minor. As long as you stay with your parents, it'll be this way.

    Children get disowned or kicked out all the time because of their homosexuality or their religion. Adults lose contact with their parents because of either issue. The law can't force parents to love their children no matter what. As much as you can choose whichever religion you want, your parents can decide how they'll react to this. Asking for protection from your parents' religious beliefs is actually disrespecting theirs. Their house is their kingdom, their will is their business. If you don't like it, tough. Move out.

    Obviously they can take away your stuff! It's called discipline, and again, you obviously have no protection against unlawful search and seizure from your parents, as they aren't the government. What you seem to want is a situation where your parents will have no hold over you whatsoever. How are they supposed to raise you then? Again, a man's house is his kingdom. What's next, getting sent to your room is an unacceptable restriction on your freedom of movement?

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    And yes I'm going to argue against mandatory schooling, because it's essentially slavery in a different(and I'll agree less extreme) form.

    Uhh...the definition of slavery entails that a certain class of people is regarded as property and as such, can be bought and sold. Until your school district buys you from your parents, mandatory schooling definitely isn't slavery.

    Furthermore, the system is generally flexible and you're free to supplement it if you want. You want academic freedom as a minor? Get homeschooled, but then you might become Justin Bieber, which isn't an enviable position because that kid is thick as a brick. Society has everything to gain by making sure that you, me and everyone else at least attempts to get a certain set of general skills, tested and verified by neutral authorities and symbolized by a diploma. It keeps you from becoming a drag on it. We all went through it. We're not dead.

    It's not like almost every job doesn't require at least a high school diploma anyway. You might be a self-taught genius, but most employers won't look twice at you if your skills haven't been assessed by a competent authority because then they're taking a chance. That's how it is.

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    Emancipation isn't an equalizer, in some places you can't get emancipated without parental consent meaning that emancipation is out of the reach for most kids.

    With good reason.

    Who's better suited to testify as to a child's maturity : the child himself who has a vested interest, a judge who's seen the child for all of a few hours or the parents who raised him/her and are supposed to want his/her well-being?

    Not only that, but in many jurisdictions, it's very easy to get emancipated if you can prove that you're already functioning like an adult. Start your own successful business, that's the easiest way. You can also get a full-time job and move out, second best way. I know people that did that at 16 without a hitch. I mean, if you want to live life like an adult, then do it, and chances are good you'll have at least de facto emancipation, even if not de jure. Move out. You can't expect to have all the responsibilities of an adult showered unto you and still live like a minor. Can't have that cake and eat it too.

    Quote
    While I do agree that they are a massive expense, my main gripes are with the authoritarian parents, that feel a need to have a say in everything their kids do, even to what they believe, sometimes I agree parents do need to step in when it comes to certain things, however other places I disagree.

    That's a toss of the coin at this point. None of us chooses our parents, but they have the right to raise you as they see fit. My mom wasn't authoritarian, but she was very overprotective. I would have preferred that she wasn't with hindsight, but she only wanted what was best for me and she thought protecting her little runt was the best way. Authoritarian parents often only want to instill a sense of discipline in their children, which is obviously very beneficial. Some of them do go overboard with it, some toe the limit perfectly and raise their children wonderfully.

    The only thing with which I will agree with you is that not all parents are fit to be parents. However, that's nothing law can do anything about.

    I've been reading more and more about minors wanting more and more rights, the right to vote, the right to be free of school dress codes, and so on, but I seldom hear them clamor for more and more obligations. I don't hear them object to the Young Offenders Act and ask to be treated before the law the same way as an adult would be when they commit a crime, for instance. For countries where that still exists, I don't hear them begging to be considered for the draft. To me, that speaks of immaturity and that does mean that minors aren't ready to be "young adults". It's simply a reaction to our instant gratification culture where the youth want more and more stuff and they want it right away. Youth is a formative experience and I'm willing to bet many of us here would kill to be able to be 14 or 15 again. Those are literally the best years of your life. Enjoy them.

    If you think you're old enough to take your life into your own hands, you gotta take all of it, the upsides and the downsides. You have to be ready to be sent to the real jail if you do bad stuff, you have to be ready to enter into contracts and not have them nullified at the drop of a hat by the courts if you don't like it anymore, you have to be ready to have zero de jure guarantor if you get into debt you cannot pay back and if shit hits the fan, you have to be willing to be drafted to go to Bumfuckistan with the other adults, get shot at and see shit that will scar you for the rest of your life, and that's if you're lucky enough not to be sent back home in a body bag.

    Life as an adult is shit. I moved out and now I'm going back to live with my mom at 24. Young adults like me have massive unemployment levels and it's simply almost not feasible anymore to move out before you're done with your education. Seriously man, enjoy these years. You might think your parents are dicks right now but trust me, we've all thought that at a time or another. There will come a time where you will regret ever thinking that and realize how hard it is to raise a child on top of all the responsibilities your parents had to fulfill.
    « Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 08:06:08 AM by Seroim »
    Seroim
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