(https://wintreath.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macroevolution.net%2Fimages%2Fturtle-human-hybrid-300-208-12.jpg&hash=9a8833be9cf6809eedfa39d8dfd14bbf)Legacy is actually cosplaying as a tortoise, I'm the turtle here.
Legacy is an evil human cosplaying as a turtle :'(
Vote: Make Legacy Leave
Vote: Make NyghtOwl Leave
Because he also won last game. Amd to anyone who mentions me, I'm gonna be at work for the next 12 hours, so I won't be able to see it until then.
Vote: Make NyghtOwl Leave
Because he also won last game. Amd to anyone who mentions me, I'm gonna be at work for the next 12 hours, so I won't be able to see it until then.
Teehee. I think Gerrick is mad that I turned things around on him last game but it's okay. I don't hold grudges.
That being said, I'm gonna Vote to make Laurentia leave because it's never a good idea to let a formerly omnipotent being attend your parties.
Vote: Make NyghtOwl Leave
Because he also won last game. Amd to anyone who mentions me, I'm gonna be at work for the next 12 hours, so I won't be able to see it until then.
Teehee. I think Gerrick is mad that I turned things around on him last game but it's okay. I don't hold grudges.
That being said, I'm gonna Vote to make Laurentia leave because it's never a good idea to let a formerly omnipotent being attend your parties.
But... if you didn't do anything wrong, you have nothing to hide. Do you?
I'm going to accidentally mix up humans and wolves multiple times this game, calling it now.SAME
(https://wintreath.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macroevolution.net%2Fimages%2Fturtle-human-hybrid-300-208-12.jpg&hash=9a8833be9cf6809eedfa39d8dfd14bbf)that image is cursed
Legacy is an evil human cosplaying as a turtle :'(
Vote: Make Legacy Leave
Oh praise the Lord for you have not seen what is even more cursed whilst I was searching for human-tortoise hybrid
Vote: Anubhav Ghosh
Come join us, friend, and please let me know what you think of the posts so far.
(I think he might perhaps need a discord ping?)
@cozmikrae
@Anubhav Ghosh
@taulover
@Hydra
You've been very quiet. It's unsettling.
I'm going to accidentally mix up humans and wolves multiple times this game, calling it now.SAME(https://wintreath.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macroevolution.net%2Fimages%2Fturtle-human-hybrid-300-208-12.jpg&hash=9a8833be9cf6809eedfa39d8dfd14bbf)that image is cursed
Legacy is an evil human cosplaying as a turtle :'(
Vote: Make Legacy Leave
anyways Vote: Sapphiron Leave
because of the image above
It seems like we have a lot of would be bullies here and that's really not okay. Bullying is bad and it needs to not happen. I know we're all worried some humans snuck in and want to hit us with hammers but this is play time, not paranoia time!
In the interests of trying to avoid all those MU habits we've picked up, I'm going to Vote: No Lynch to try and get into the 'right' mindset. I'll change it later (since I've made clear I don't believe in it anymore) but its such a nice, non-violent move that there's no better way to spend a Sunday playtime.
@cozmikraeprobably sleeping in...
@Anubhav Ghosh
@taulover
@Hydra
You've been very quiet. It's unsettling.
@cozmikraeprobably sleeping in...
@Anubhav Ghosh
@taulover
@Hydra
You've been very quiet. It's unsettling.
or some are HUMAN! (human is the new wolf right?)
If nobody posts by the time I'm free later then I'm going to post a big scary reads list. :oReads list averted. ^-^
Which Egyptian God is this ?Honestly, it is surprising to me that of all animals that were used, turtles don't particularly have much representation in being the literal faces of the Egyptian gods per se, but they were symbolically linked to Set so I guess?
pls make one anywaysIf nobody posts by the time I'm free later then I'm going to post a big scary reads list. :oReads list averted. ^-^
Which Egyptian God is this ?Honestly, it is surprising to me that of all animals that were used, turtles don't particularly have much representation in being the literal faces of the Egyptian gods per se, but they were symbolically linked to Set so I guess?
Interesting , it seems as if you're demanding peace and merrymaking in times when danger 'lurking' around is showing its canines (ok , humans got small ones , no racist talk here with respect to canines).Not really, just trying to see if I could get out of the mindset I was in the last game, esp. because I think it was clearly demonstrated that whatever I was doing was completely ineffective, for all that it looked pretty good.
Its nearly proven , there must be one scum who will never , NEVER talk . One of these , definitely possibleProbably means nothing for Hydra and Tau; both have expressed that they were busy in the signup thread, even if they'd do their best to make time for the game (bummer that neither has posted). Also NAI for you, since as you said, you had the wrong impression about where the game would start, meaning you could well have missed the first entire day unaware it had started at all.
An offer I can't refuse! Don't expect much though lol.pls make one anywaysIf nobody posts by the time I'm free later then I'm going to post a big scary reads list. :oReads list averted. ^-^
Which Egyptian God is this ?Honestly, it is surprising to me that of all animals that were used, turtles don't particularly have much representation in being the literal faces of the Egyptian gods per se, but they were symbolically linked to Set so I guess?
Anubhav should be one spot higher and it's really bugging me now.An offer I can't refuse! Don't expect much though lol.pls make one anywaysIf nobody posts by the time I'm free later then I'm going to post a big scary reads list. :oReads list averted. ^-^Spoiler
Legacy of Smiles
TGN
NyghtOwl
Laurentus
Eastern New England
Anubhav Ghosh
Sapphiron
Everybody who hasn't been in the thread
taulover
Gerrick
Doc
So, like, 3 town reads and 1 scum read right now and everyone else especially I'd want to see more from. I'll probably explain my reads later but I want to see more people form their opinions without giving them chance to copy mine first (accidentally or on purpose).
Anything you have so far, TGN?
Also...
Vote: Doc
Hmm, Doc beat me to pointing out the lack of BSR! Lau, did you neglect to mention BSR because you genuinely forgot him, or because your roles are connected by PM and he's been active there? I wonder...Yeah, my bad forgot BSR.
Because he hasn't yet posted (and I know that my family is particularly dangerous) I will Vote: Make BraveSirRobin leave.
Anubhav should be one spot higher and it's really bugging me now.An offer I can't refuse! Don't expect much though lol.pls make one anywaysIf nobody posts by the time I'm free later then I'm going to post a big scary reads list. :oReads list averted. ^-^Spoiler
Legacy of Smiles
TGN
NyghtOwl
Laurentus
Eastern New England
Anubhav Ghosh
Sapphiron
Everybody who hasn't been in the thread
taulover
Gerrick
Doc
So, like, 3 town reads and 1 scum read right now and everyone else especially I'd want to see more from. I'll probably explain my reads later but I want to see more people form their opinions without giving them chance to copy mine first (accidentally or on purpose).
Anything you have so far, TGN?
Also...
Vote: Doc
An offer I can't refuse! Don't expect much though lol.I know you're holding off on explaining your reasoning, understandably, but how do you even read this in the first place?Spoiler
Legacy of Smiles
TGN
NyghtOwl
Laurentus
Eastern New England
Anubhav Ghosh
Sapphiron
Everybody who hasn't been in the thread
taulover
Gerrick
Doc
So, like, 3 town reads and 1 scum read right now and everyone else especially I'd want to see more from. I'll probably explain my reads later but I want to see more people form their opinions without giving them chance to copy mine first (accidentally or on purpose).
Anything you have so far, TGN?
Also...
Vote: Doc
its still early but I have the smallest tiniest bit of sus on Doc for no reason other than dramaAn offer I can't refuse! Don't expect much though lol.pls make one anywaysIf nobody posts by the time I'm free later then I'm going to post a big scary reads list. :oReads list averted. ^-^Spoiler
Legacy of Smiles
TGN
NyghtOwl
Laurentus
Eastern New England
Anubhav Ghosh
Sapphiron
Everybody who hasn't been in the thread
taulover
Gerrick
Doc
So, like, 3 town reads and 1 scum read right now and everyone else especially I'd want to see more from. I'll probably explain my reads later but I want to see more people form their opinions without giving them chance to copy mine first (accidentally or on purpose).
Anything you have so far, TGN?
Also...
Vote: Doc
Why is Nyght in your Town leans?
Why am I, in fact?
I know you're holding off on explaining your reasoning, understandably, but how do you even read this in the first place?
And I've posted now; where do I belong? :P
Truly tragic.Which Egyptian God is this ?Honestly, it is surprising to me that of all animals that were used, turtles don't particularly have much representation in being the literal faces of the Egyptian gods per se, but they were symbolically linked to Set so I guess?
Colberius I would have kept you in the null category based on your first post but you're a town lean for me now. And to answer your question, it's because I originally started playing mafia on discord servers where players might post only 2 relevant lines of information in an entire game and I eventually learned how to (at least attempt to) read into that (and my reads are weak at this stage to be completely honest which is why so many people are just in the nulls category).Makes sense. I was more asking how to interpret the list, though. Obviously it's Town/Null/Scum, but does the order matter?
Truly tragic.Which Egyptian God is this ?Honestly, it is surprising to me that of all animals that were used, turtles don't particularly have much representation in being the literal faces of the Egyptian gods per se, but they were symbolically linked to Set so I guess?
What do you mean by WIM, LoS?
How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
Colberius I would have kept you in the null category based on your first post but you're a town lean for me now. And to answer your question, it's because I originally started playing mafia on discord servers where players might post only 2 relevant lines of information in an entire game and I eventually learned how to (at least attempt to) read into that (and my reads are weak at this stage to be completely honest which is why so many people are just in the nulls category).Makes sense. I was more asking how to interpret the list, though. Obviously it's Town/Null/Scum, but does the order matter?
Vote: Gerrick[
Because I'm not liking the pre-emptive defensiveness.
Truly tragic.Which Egyptian God is this ?Honestly, it is surprising to me that of all animals that were used, turtles don't particularly have much representation in being the literal faces of the Egyptian gods per se, but they were symbolically linked to Set so I guess?
What do you mean by WIM, LoS?
WIM = Want It More (in reference to winning the game, e.g how enthusiastic the player is... pretty hard to explain if you don't see it used but it usually indicates a townsperson if they are eager to solve the game).How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
To be completely honest, scum hunting was probably a bad description. I would more say that Nyght was eager to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the game which is what he described as "getting the ball roling" i.e looking for scum (which is why I originally called it scumhunting but I think I took a bit of a logical leap there). To contrast, last game Nyght seemed to prefer to try to avoid discussion like that last game when possible and would often come and talk to me in wolf chat without ever saying anything in thread so I think it marks a change in attitude for him because of a change in alignments.Colberius I would have kept you in the null category based on your first post but you're a town lean for me now. And to answer your question, it's because I originally started playing mafia on discord servers where players might post only 2 relevant lines of information in an entire game and I eventually learned how to (at least attempt to) read into that (and my reads are weak at this stage to be completely honest which is why so many people are just in the nulls category).Makes sense. I was more asking how to interpret the list, though. Obviously it's Town/Null/Scum, but does the order matter?
The order does matter for lists I make (may vary based on the person) but at this point the differences are so thin that it's not really worth considering.
If nobody posts by the time I'm free later then I'm going to post a big scary reads list. :o
@cozmikraeprobably sleeping in...
@Anubhav Ghosh
@taulover
@Hydra
You've been very quiet. It's unsettling.
or some are HUMAN! (human is the new wolf right?)
1 scum read right now>screwed the pooch last game
WIM = Want It More (in reference to winning the game, e.g how enthusiastic the player is... pretty hard to explain if you don't see it used but it usually indicates a townsperson if they are eager to solve the game).I thought half the point of this game was that we were deliberately trying not to do this stuff to make it a more chill game, rather than the sort of game everyone's tearing their hair out over - you know, as suggested below, since it's not like anyone in this game hasn't actually played WW before.How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
To be completely honest, scum hunting was probably a bad description. I would more say that Nyght was eager to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the game which is what he described as "getting the ball roling" i.e looking for scum (which is why I originally called it scumhunting but I think I took a bit of a logical leap there). To contrast, last game Nyght seemed to prefer to try to avoid discussion like that last game when possible and would often come and talk to me in wolf chat without ever saying anything in thread so I think it marks a change in attitude for him because of a change in alignments.
10. Reads lists, lingo, and other Mafia Universe tidbits are appreciated, but discouraged to keep this game less confusing for players new to the game.
Ha, well I certainly wouldn't put much stock into my reads if I die tonight but early D1 reads can be pretty helpful. Sometimes they're right (I remember one particular game on discord where I found 2/3 wolves with D1 reads, although that is probably an isolated incident trust me) and sometimes the way people respond to them can be more useful than whatever you originally base the reads on.Truly tragic.Which Egyptian God is this ?Honestly, it is surprising to me that of all animals that were used, turtles don't particularly have much representation in being the literal faces of the Egyptian gods per se, but they were symbolically linked to Set so I guess?
What do you mean by WIM, LoS?
WIM = Want It More (in reference to winning the game, e.g how enthusiastic the player is... pretty hard to explain if you don't see it used but it usually indicates a townsperson if they are eager to solve the game).How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
To be completely honest, scum hunting was probably a bad description. I would more say that Nyght was eager to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the game which is what he described as "getting the ball roling" i.e looking for scum (which is why I originally called it scumhunting but I think I took a bit of a logical leap there). To contrast, last game Nyght seemed to prefer to try to avoid discussion like that last game when possible and would often come and talk to me in wolf chat without ever saying anything in thread so I think it marks a change in attitude for him because of a change in alignments.Colberius I would have kept you in the null category based on your first post but you're a town lean for me now. And to answer your question, it's because I originally started playing mafia on discord servers where players might post only 2 relevant lines of information in an entire game and I eventually learned how to (at least attempt to) read into that (and my reads are weak at this stage to be completely honest which is why so many people are just in the nulls category).Makes sense. I was more asking how to interpret the list, though. Obviously it's Town/Null/Scum, but does the order matter?
The order does matter for lists I make (may vary based on the person) but at this point the differences are so thin that it's not really worth considering.
I'm shocked to see a reads list this early on. Well done sir. You're either possessed of one hell of an intuition or a bit more information than the rest of us...
@Eastern New EnglandMind if I ask what your answer to that question is?
What are your opinions on LoS?
@Eastern New EnglandMind if I ask what your answer to that question is?
What are your opinions on LoS?
@Eastern New EnglandHe seems to be playing as usual this far, I'd put him at null. But then again, I don't give out town or wolf reads as graciously as him.
What are your opinions on LoS?
@Eastern New EnglandHe seems to be playing as usual this far, I'd put him at null. But then again, I don't give out town or wolf reads as graciously as him.
What are your opinions on LoS?
DocWould you please explain your read on Gerrick to me?
Legacy of Smiles(I am already regretting)
Townlean : Gerrick as of now
Null on Sapph , TGN , ENE, and Lau for time being , D1 posts are the scummiest of all tbh .
Scum:
Nyght: I have seen her as wolf already , and she tried to start a wagon on a veteran . Here she does the same thing and botes Lau , almost siting the same reason
Colberius: Seems like he had nothing to add , just wanted to grab onto something that came flying by , which is Doc's statement saying why Lau didn't mention BSR among inactive listings and placed it in.
A Nyght/Colberius scumteam looks very possible to me.
DocWould you please explain your read on Gerrick to me?
Legacy of Smiles(I am already regretting)
Townlean : Gerrick as of now
Null on Sapph , TGN , ENE, and Lau for time being , D1 posts are the scummiest of all tbh .
Scum:
Nyght: I have seen her as wolf already , and she tried to start a wagon on a veteran . Here she does the same thing and botes Lau , almost siting the same reason
Colberius: Seems like he had nothing to add , just wanted to grab onto something that came flying by , which is Doc's statement saying why Lau didn't mention BSR among inactive listings and placed it in.
A Nyght/Colberius scumteam looks very possible to me.
Open question to everyone: what do you think of Doc's first paragraph, given that I have not yet given any reason to scumread him. If you want an extra pointer, how do you feel about how Doc reads me from that paragraph that he wrote? What might that suggest about Doc? Interested if someone reaches the same conclusion I do on that.1 scum read right now>screwed the pooch last game
>accordingly, decides to radically change playstyle because I'd prefer to win
>'Aha, he must be scum'
flawless logic there, but whatever, i'll treat it as a reaction test and avoid my instinctive OMGUS switch in favor of just being snitty
On the assumption you're targeting me because I'm not especially scumhunting (because on what basis would I try? This is RVS, nobody knows diddly except scum and they're not gonna tell us anything), I've said it before and I'll say it again; if there ever really is a time for a mislynch to get info, D1 is that time, because today of all days information is at a premium and lives are not.WIM = Want It More (in reference to winning the game, e.g how enthusiastic the player is... pretty hard to explain if you don't see it used but it usually indicates a townsperson if they are eager to solve the game).I thought half the point of this game was that we were deliberately trying not to do this stuff to make it a more chill game, rather than the sort of game everyone's tearing their hair out over - you know, as suggested below, since it's not like anyone in this game hasn't actually played WW before.How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
To be completely honest, scum hunting was probably a bad description. I would more say that Nyght was eager to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the game which is what he described as "getting the ball roling" i.e looking for scum (which is why I originally called it scumhunting but I think I took a bit of a logical leap there). To contrast, last game Nyght seemed to prefer to try to avoid discussion like that last game when possible and would often come and talk to me in wolf chat without ever saying anything in thread so I think it marks a change in attitude for him because of a change in alignments.10. Reads lists, lingo, and other Mafia Universe tidbits are appreciated, but discouraged to keep this game less confusing for players new to the game.
Also, that said, miss me with that 'WIM' stuff; this is a game with a Seer Squad; if the Seer lives long enough, which can be practically guaranteed if he contacts the Defenders (1/6 odds if we lynch today, otherwise 2/13, and those odds only get better) since they can just trade off defending him every night until he's solved the game; improving the Seer's odds of contacting the Defenders improves his odds of survival improves our odds of winning the game, and we always have the option to no lynch later on in the game to get us to an odd number (or if the Defenders block an NK, even better), especially since that just adds on more days in which the Seer can solve the game.
The optimal winning strategy is to delay until the Seer solves the game. With 11 town, 3 scum, assuming an NK every night, and a no-lynch every other day (to avoid running afoul of Rule 6);
If we lynch D1, D2 it's 9 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 6 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, at which point Seer has scanned 4 times and (assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) will have at least 2 friends and knows at least 1 scum.
If we don't lynch D1, D2 it's 10 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 7 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, and can reach D6 where it's 4 town 3 scum, at which point (again, assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) we can assume the game is solved because there will have been 4 successful scans.
Actually with that in mind, Vote: No Lynch again, and I urge everyone else to do the same.
Interesting , it seems as if you're demanding peace and merrymaking in times when danger 'lurking' around is showing its canines (ok , humans got small ones , no racist talk here with respect to canines).Not really, just trying to see if I could get out of the mindset I was in the last game, esp. because I think it was clearly demonstrated that whatever I was doing was completely ineffective, for all that it looked pretty good.Its nearly proven , there must be one scum who will never , NEVER talk . One of these , definitely possibleProbably means nothing for Hydra and Tau; both have expressed that they were busy in the signup thread, even if they'd do their best to make time for the game (bummer that neither has posted). Also NAI for you, since as you said, you had the wrong impression about where the game would start, meaning you could well have missed the first entire day unaware it had started at all.
Left out of the Lau list you quote is Colby (who Lau subsequently noticed, and who has posted since) and BSR (who nobody noticed and who hasn't posted yet).
But also considering that most people are sitting in sort of the 1-3 posts spot thus far to begin with suggests that someone might be better served as a dangerous tricksy human by posting occasionally rather than not at all.
Still, in the interest of spurring some of these to action;
@cozmikrae @BraveSirRobin @taulover @Hydra
And because there's no votes on them at this juncture and it's day 1 - and more to the point I'm willing to take the reasonably safe bet that a wagon won't inexplicably form, while also not wanting to keep my vote on no lynch - Vote: cozmikrae.
Open question to everyone: what do you think of Doc's first paragraph, given that I have not yet given any reason to scumread him. If you want an extra pointer, how do you feel about how Doc reads me from that paragraph that he wrote? What might that suggest about Doc? Interested if someone reaches the same conclusion I do on that.1 scum read right now>screwed the pooch last game
>accordingly, decides to radically change playstyle because I'd prefer to win
>'Aha, he must be scum'
flawless logic there, but whatever, i'll treat it as a reaction test and avoid my instinctive OMGUS switch in favor of just being snitty
On the assumption you're targeting me because I'm not especially scumhunting (because on what basis would I try? This is RVS, nobody knows diddly except scum and they're not gonna tell us anything), I've said it before and I'll say it again; if there ever really is a time for a mislynch to get info, D1 is that time, because today of all days information is at a premium and lives are not.WIM = Want It More (in reference to winning the game, e.g how enthusiastic the player is... pretty hard to explain if you don't see it used but it usually indicates a townsperson if they are eager to solve the game).I thought half the point of this game was that we were deliberately trying not to do this stuff to make it a more chill game, rather than the sort of game everyone's tearing their hair out over - you know, as suggested below, since it's not like anyone in this game hasn't actually played WW before.How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
To be completely honest, scum hunting was probably a bad description. I would more say that Nyght was eager to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the game which is what he described as "getting the ball roling" i.e looking for scum (which is why I originally called it scumhunting but I think I took a bit of a logical leap there). To contrast, last game Nyght seemed to prefer to try to avoid discussion like that last game when possible and would often come and talk to me in wolf chat without ever saying anything in thread so I think it marks a change in attitude for him because of a change in alignments.10. Reads lists, lingo, and other Mafia Universe tidbits are appreciated, but discouraged to keep this game less confusing for players new to the game.
Also, that said, miss me with that 'WIM' stuff; this is a game with a Seer Squad; if the Seer lives long enough, which can be practically guaranteed if he contacts the Defenders (1/6 odds if we lynch today, otherwise 2/13, and those odds only get better) since they can just trade off defending him every night until he's solved the game; improving the Seer's odds of contacting the Defenders improves his odds of survival improves our odds of winning the game, and we always have the option to no lynch later on in the game to get us to an odd number (or if the Defenders block an NK, even better), especially since that just adds on more days in which the Seer can solve the game.
The optimal winning strategy is to delay until the Seer solves the game. With 11 town, 3 scum, assuming an NK every night, and a no-lynch every other day (to avoid running afoul of Rule 6);
If we lynch D1, D2 it's 9 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 6 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, at which point Seer has scanned 4 times and (assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) will have at least 2 friends and knows at least 1 scum.
If we don't lynch D1, D2 it's 10 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 7 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, and can reach D6 where it's 4 town 3 scum, at which point (again, assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) we can assume the game is solved because there will have been 4 successful scans.
Actually with that in mind, Vote: No Lynch again, and I urge everyone else to do the same.
And yeah, sorry. I'm naturally more of a serious player so I'm in the habit of posting like that. If anybody doesn't understand things I'm saying, please just ask me to explain (even if you need to keep asking me to explain the same thing multiple times before you understand that's ok).
But I disagree with your stance on seer squad. First of all, that's a pretty boring way to win (and probably not the experience we want to give new players: "let one lucky person carry the game"). The second reason is that we win or lose almost entirely depending on if the seer gets killed at night early. I haven't quite worked out the odds of it but winning by seer squad seems on par with winning by rolling a die every day and choosing who to chop that way... it works fairly often, sure, but why would you do that? I'd prefer the seer to help us win normally instead f completely relying on them.
Chin up, Doc. I consider you a pretty good player and if you're town I'd much appreciate your help this game.
Considering how lynch happy we were in the last game we played together, this no lynch preference is interesting. And if I recall correctly, Doc was one of the ones recommending a D1 lynch for info purposes. Not sure what to make of that.
On the assumption you're targeting me because I'm not especially scumhunting (because on what basis would I try? This is RVS, nobody knows diddly except scum and they're not gonna tell us anything), I've said it before and I'll say it again; if there ever really is a time for a mislynch to get info, D1 is that time, because today of all days information is at a premium and lives are not.I did, in fact, recommend that in the first half of my post, before changing my mind for the reasons I outline below.
But... he said he's choosing a different route and this is a much smaller game, so I suppose it stands to reason that we're might lose to the humans if we mislynch at the incredible rate we did last game.My reasoning changed solely because if we no lynch today and every other day after, we hit LyLo D6, whereas if we no lynch tomorrow and every other day after we hit LyLo D5. If we lynch every day, we'll hit LyLo D4, or D5 if the defenders block 1 NK.
Idk, it checks out and doesn't read too humanish to me.
If we lynch every day, we'll hit LyLo D4, or D5 if the defenders block 1 NK.Minor error: I didn't distinguish between MyLo and LyLo, if we lynch every day we hit MyLo D4 and can delay with a No Lynch on that day to wind up in LyLo D5.
@NyghtOwl
Can I have a read list from you , just wanna see where you place the veterans
Doc
Legacy of Smiles(I am already regretting)
Townlean : Gerrick as of now
Null on Sapph , TGN , ENE, and Lau for time being , D1 posts are the scummiest of all tbh .
Scum:
Nyght: I have seen her as wolf already , and she tried to start a wagon on a veteran . Here she does the same thing and botes Lau , almost siting the same reason
Colberius: Seems like he had nothing to add , just wanted to grab onto something that came flying by , which is Doc's statement saying why Lau didn't mention BSR among inactive listings and placed it in.
A Nyght/Colberius scumteam looks very possible to me.
Open question to everyone: what do you think of Doc's first paragraph, given that I have not yet given any reason to scumread him. If you want an extra pointer, how do you feel about how Doc reads me from that paragraph that he wrote? What might that suggest about Doc? Interested if someone reaches the same conclusion I do on that.1 scum read right now>screwed the pooch last game
>accordingly, decides to radically change playstyle because I'd prefer to win
>'Aha, he must be scum'
flawless logic there, but whatever, i'll treat it as a reaction test and avoid my instinctive OMGUS switch in favor of just being snitty
On the assumption you're targeting me because I'm not especially scumhunting (because on what basis would I try? This is RVS, nobody knows diddly except scum and they're not gonna tell us anything), I've said it before and I'll say it again; if there ever really is a time for a mislynch to get info, D1 is that time, because today of all days information is at a premium and lives are not.WIM = Want It More (in reference to winning the game, e.g how enthusiastic the player is... pretty hard to explain if you don't see it used but it usually indicates a townsperson if they are eager to solve the game).I thought half the point of this game was that we were deliberately trying not to do this stuff to make it a more chill game, rather than the sort of game everyone's tearing their hair out over - you know, as suggested below, since it's not like anyone in this game hasn't actually played WW before.How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
To be completely honest, scum hunting was probably a bad description. I would more say that Nyght was eager to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the game which is what he described as "getting the ball roling" i.e looking for scum (which is why I originally called it scumhunting but I think I took a bit of a logical leap there). To contrast, last game Nyght seemed to prefer to try to avoid discussion like that last game when possible and would often come and talk to me in wolf chat without ever saying anything in thread so I think it marks a change in attitude for him because of a change in alignments.10. Reads lists, lingo, and other Mafia Universe tidbits are appreciated, but discouraged to keep this game less confusing for players new to the game.
Also, that said, miss me with that 'WIM' stuff; this is a game with a Seer Squad; if the Seer lives long enough, which can be practically guaranteed if he contacts the Defenders (1/6 odds if we lynch today, otherwise 2/13, and those odds only get better) since they can just trade off defending him every night until he's solved the game; improving the Seer's odds of contacting the Defenders improves his odds of survival improves our odds of winning the game, and we always have the option to no lynch later on in the game to get us to an odd number (or if the Defenders block an NK, even better), especially since that just adds on more days in which the Seer can solve the game.
The optimal winning strategy is to delay until the Seer solves the game. With 11 town, 3 scum, assuming an NK every night, and a no-lynch every other day (to avoid running afoul of Rule 6);
If we lynch D1, D2 it's 9 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 6 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, at which point Seer has scanned 4 times and (assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) will have at least 2 friends and knows at least 1 scum.
If we don't lynch D1, D2 it's 10 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 7 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, and can reach D6 where it's 4 town 3 scum, at which point (again, assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) we can assume the game is solved because there will have been 4 successful scans.
Actually with that in mind, Vote: No Lynch again, and I urge everyone else to do the same.
And yeah, sorry. I'm naturally more of a serious player so I'm in the habit of posting like that. If anybody doesn't understand things I'm saying, please just ask me to explain (even if you need to keep asking me to explain the same thing multiple times before you understand that's ok).
But I disagree with your stance on seer squad. First of all, that's a pretty boring way to win (and probably not the experience we want to give new players: "let one lucky person carry the game"). The second reason is that we win or lose almost entirely depending on if the seer gets killed at night early. I haven't quite worked out the odds of it but winning by seer squad seems on par with winning by rolling a die every day and choosing who to chop that way... it works fairly often, sure, but why would you do that? I'd prefer the seer to help us win normally instead f completely relying on them.
Chin up, Doc. I consider you a pretty good player and if you're town I'd much appreciate your help this game.
Open question to everyone: what do you think of Doc's first paragraph, given that I have not yet given any reason to scumread him. If you want an extra pointer, how do you feel about how Doc reads me from that paragraph that he wrote? What might that suggest about Doc? Interested if someone reaches the same conclusion I do on that.1 scum read right now>screwed the pooch last game
>accordingly, decides to radically change playstyle because I'd prefer to win
>'Aha, he must be scum'
flawless logic there, but whatever, i'll treat it as a reaction test and avoid my instinctive OMGUS switch in favor of just being snitty
On the assumption you're targeting me because I'm not especially scumhunting (because on what basis would I try? This is RVS, nobody knows diddly except scum and they're not gonna tell us anything), I've said it before and I'll say it again; if there ever really is a time for a mislynch to get info, D1 is that time, because today of all days information is at a premium and lives are not.WIM = Want It More (in reference to winning the game, e.g how enthusiastic the player is... pretty hard to explain if you don't see it used but it usually indicates a townsperson if they are eager to solve the game).I thought half the point of this game was that we were deliberately trying not to do this stuff to make it a more chill game, rather than the sort of game everyone's tearing their hair out over - you know, as suggested below, since it's not like anyone in this game hasn't actually played WW before.How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
To be completely honest, scum hunting was probably a bad description. I would more say that Nyght was eager to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the game which is what he described as "getting the ball roling" i.e looking for scum (which is why I originally called it scumhunting but I think I took a bit of a logical leap there). To contrast, last game Nyght seemed to prefer to try to avoid discussion like that last game when possible and would often come and talk to me in wolf chat without ever saying anything in thread so I think it marks a change in attitude for him because of a change in alignments.10. Reads lists, lingo, and other Mafia Universe tidbits are appreciated, but discouraged to keep this game less confusing for players new to the game.
Also, that said, miss me with that 'WIM' stuff; this is a game with a Seer Squad; if the Seer lives long enough, which can be practically guaranteed if he contacts the Defenders (1/6 odds if we lynch today, otherwise 2/13, and those odds only get better) since they can just trade off defending him every night until he's solved the game; improving the Seer's odds of contacting the Defenders improves his odds of survival improves our odds of winning the game, and we always have the option to no lynch later on in the game to get us to an odd number (or if the Defenders block an NK, even better), especially since that just adds on more days in which the Seer can solve the game.
The optimal winning strategy is to delay until the Seer solves the game. With 11 town, 3 scum, assuming an NK every night, and a no-lynch every other day (to avoid running afoul of Rule 6);
If we lynch D1, D2 it's 9 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 6 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, at which point Seer has scanned 4 times and (assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) will have at least 2 friends and knows at least 1 scum.
If we don't lynch D1, D2 it's 10 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 7 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, and can reach D6 where it's 4 town 3 scum, at which point (again, assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) we can assume the game is solved because there will have been 4 successful scans.
Actually with that in mind, Vote: No Lynch again, and I urge everyone else to do the same.
And yeah, sorry. I'm naturally more of a serious player so I'm in the habit of posting like that. If anybody doesn't understand things I'm saying, please just ask me to explain (even if you need to keep asking me to explain the same thing multiple times before you understand that's ok).
But I disagree with your stance on seer squad. First of all, that's a pretty boring way to win (and probably not the experience we want to give new players: "let one lucky person carry the game"). The second reason is that we win or lose almost entirely depending on if the seer gets killed at night early. I haven't quite worked out the odds of it but winning by seer squad seems on par with winning by rolling a die every day and choosing who to chop that way... it works fairly often, sure, but why would you do that? I'd prefer the seer to help us win normally instead f completely relying on them.
Chin up, Doc. I consider you a pretty good player and if you're town I'd much appreciate your help this game.
Considering how lynch happy we were in the last game we played together, this no lynch preference is interesting. And if I recall correctly, Doc was one of the ones recommending a D1 lynch for info purposes. Not sure what to make of that.
But... he said he's choosing a different route and this is a much smaller game, so I suppose it stands to reason that we're might lose to the humans if we mislynch at the incredible rate we did last game.
Idk, it checks out and doesn't read too humanish to me.
Considering how lynch happy we were in the last game we played together, this no lynch preference is interesting. And if I recall correctly, Doc was one of the ones recommending a D1 lynch for info purposes. Not sure what to make of that.On the assumption you're targeting me because I'm not especially scumhunting (because on what basis would I try? This is RVS, nobody knows diddly except scum and they're not gonna tell us anything), I've said it before and I'll say it again; if there ever really is a time for a mislynch to get info, D1 is that time, because today of all days information is at a premium and lives are not.I did, in fact, recommend that in the first half of my post, before changing my mind for the reasons I outline below.But... he said he's choosing a different route and this is a much smaller game, so I suppose it stands to reason that we're might lose to the humans if we mislynch at the incredible rate we did last game.My reasoning changed solely because if we no lynch today and every other day after, we hit LyLo D6, whereas if we no lynch tomorrow and every other day after we hit LyLo D5. If we lynch every day, we'll hit LyLo D4, or D5 if the defenders block 1 NK.
Idk, it checks out and doesn't read too humanish to me.
(All of these numbers are worst-case, where we mislynch every day, because I'm paranoid after the absolute fucking drubbing LoS gave us (well, full disclosure, in my head mostly just me) last game)
My decision that no-lynch is optimal is on the basis that we decide the Seer solving the game is optimal. If we decide otherwise - since LoS does point out that's sort of lame and a bad lesson to teach - then I'm happy to try going back to old tactics.
Not sure what you're referring to here. I'm in Anu's nulls, and I'm the one who voted for Gerrick.Doc
Legacy of Smiles(I am already regretting)
Townlean : Gerrick as of now
Null on Sapph , TGN , ENE, and Lau for time being , D1 posts are the scummiest of all tbh .
Scum:
Nyght: I have seen her as wolf already , and she tried to start a wagon on a veteran . Here she does the same thing and botes Lau , almost siting the same reason
Colberius: Seems like he had nothing to add , just wanted to grab onto something that came flying by , which is Doc's statement saying why Lau didn't mention BSR among inactive listings and placed it in.
A Nyght/Colberius scumteam looks very possible to me.
For context I started out the last game in a very town mindset as I had missed the pm for the group chat and jumped right into the game thinking I was town. Which I imagine is why I got town read as early as I did. I was working under the impression I was town.
Myself, I find it strange that you've latched onto Gerrick as a town when there hasn't been much to go on. But you've scum read someone who threw a vote on them.
Not sure what you're referring to here. I'm in Anu's nulls, and I'm the one who voted for Gerrick.Doc
Legacy of Smiles(I am already regretting)
Townlean : Gerrick as of now
Null on Sapph , TGN , ENE, and Lau for time being , D1 posts are the scummiest of all tbh .
Scum:
Nyght: I have seen her as wolf already , and she tried to start a wagon on a veteran . Here she does the same thing and botes Lau , almost siting the same reason
Colberius: Seems like he had nothing to add , just wanted to grab onto something that came flying by , which is Doc's statement saying why Lau didn't mention BSR among inactive listings and placed it in.
A Nyght/Colberius scumteam looks very possible to me.
For context I started out the last game in a very town mindset as I had missed the pm for the group chat and jumped right into the game thinking I was town. Which I imagine is why I got town read as early as I did. I was working under the impression I was town.
Myself, I find it strange that you've latched onto Gerrick as a town when there hasn't been much to go on. But you've scum read someone who threw a vote on them.
You get extra town points for being the first to notice my playstyle shift. Last game, because of a lack of meta, I found it much easier to attempt to just be as towny as possible instead of actually trying to replicate my real town play (which is probably soldier than my scum play in a vacuum if I try to replicate it). I +1 this post and it's clear that Lau is genuinely trying to solve me from this.Open question to everyone: what do you think of Doc's first paragraph, given that I have not yet given any reason to scumread him. If you want an extra pointer, how do you feel about how Doc reads me from that paragraph that he wrote? What might that suggest about Doc? Interested if someone reaches the same conclusion I do on that.1 scum read right now>screwed the pooch last game
>accordingly, decides to radically change playstyle because I'd prefer to win
>'Aha, he must be scum'
flawless logic there, but whatever, i'll treat it as a reaction test and avoid my instinctive OMGUS switch in favor of just being snitty
On the assumption you're targeting me because I'm not especially scumhunting (because on what basis would I try? This is RVS, nobody knows diddly except scum and they're not gonna tell us anything), I've said it before and I'll say it again; if there ever really is a time for a mislynch to get info, D1 is that time, because today of all days information is at a premium and lives are not.WIM = Want It More (in reference to winning the game, e.g how enthusiastic the player is... pretty hard to explain if you don't see it used but it usually indicates a townsperson if they are eager to solve the game).I thought half the point of this game was that we were deliberately trying not to do this stuff to make it a more chill game, rather than the sort of game everyone's tearing their hair out over - you know, as suggested below, since it's not like anyone in this game hasn't actually played WW before.How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
To be completely honest, scum hunting was probably a bad description. I would more say that Nyght was eager to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the game which is what he described as "getting the ball roling" i.e looking for scum (which is why I originally called it scumhunting but I think I took a bit of a logical leap there). To contrast, last game Nyght seemed to prefer to try to avoid discussion like that last game when possible and would often come and talk to me in wolf chat without ever saying anything in thread so I think it marks a change in attitude for him because of a change in alignments.10. Reads lists, lingo, and other Mafia Universe tidbits are appreciated, but discouraged to keep this game less confusing for players new to the game.
Also, that said, miss me with that 'WIM' stuff; this is a game with a Seer Squad; if the Seer lives long enough, which can be practically guaranteed if he contacts the Defenders (1/6 odds if we lynch today, otherwise 2/13, and those odds only get better) since they can just trade off defending him every night until he's solved the game; improving the Seer's odds of contacting the Defenders improves his odds of survival improves our odds of winning the game, and we always have the option to no lynch later on in the game to get us to an odd number (or if the Defenders block an NK, even better), especially since that just adds on more days in which the Seer can solve the game.
The optimal winning strategy is to delay until the Seer solves the game. With 11 town, 3 scum, assuming an NK every night, and a no-lynch every other day (to avoid running afoul of Rule 6);
If we lynch D1, D2 it's 9 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 6 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, at which point Seer has scanned 4 times and (assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) will have at least 2 friends and knows at least 1 scum.
If we don't lynch D1, D2 it's 10 town 3 scum, D3 it's 8 town 3 scum, D4 it's 7 town 3 scum, D5 it's 5 town 3 scum, and can reach D6 where it's 4 town 3 scum, at which point (again, assuming the statistical likelihood that only 1 NK hits a Seer target) we can assume the game is solved because there will have been 4 successful scans.
Actually with that in mind, Vote: No Lynch again, and I urge everyone else to do the same.
And yeah, sorry. I'm naturally more of a serious player so I'm in the habit of posting like that. If anybody doesn't understand things I'm saying, please just ask me to explain (even if you need to keep asking me to explain the same thing multiple times before you understand that's ok).
But I disagree with your stance on seer squad. First of all, that's a pretty boring way to win (and probably not the experience we want to give new players: "let one lucky person carry the game"). The second reason is that we win or lose almost entirely depending on if the seer gets killed at night early. I haven't quite worked out the odds of it but winning by seer squad seems on par with winning by rolling a die every day and choosing who to chop that way... it works fairly often, sure, but why would you do that? I'd prefer the seer to help us win normally instead f completely relying on them.
Chin up, Doc. I consider you a pretty good player and if you're town I'd much appreciate your help this game.
Hmm, this actually feels a lot more confrontational than the last game from you. I have not liked your reasoning for placing Nyght in town, not me, to be honest, but I'm inclined to keep you in the game a bit for this post alone. Confrontation shows me you're not as worried about appearing nice and Townie as you were last game.
My big puzzle for this round is going to be whether one bad game is really likely to make you play with what I would consider an honestly defeatist attitude for this game. If it is, then I will say the same to you I did to Coz: let the past go, man. You honestly played well. Your logic was very good, you just didn't push it in enough directions, and suffered from what I would say was being way too forgiving of new players.I'm not treating it as defeatist, I'm saying that in the event we cannot conclusively solve the game, by taking some honestly pretty simple actions we can create a safety net for ourselves.
No, Nyght sits firmly in my nulls at present. Of course, I only have one scum lean at present, and that's Anu.I'm surprised you aren't seeing it, since you hosted last game. Look how wildly different Nyght's approach to this game is than last and look at how Nyght is responding to my reads. I think those two things make Nyght clear cut town here.
My big puzzle for this round is going to be whether one bad game is really likely to make you play with what I would consider an honestly defeatist attitude for this game. If it is, then I will say the same to you I did to Coz: let the past go, man. You honestly played well. Your logic was very good, you just didn't push it in enough directions, and suffered from what I would say was being way too forgiving of new players.I'm not treating it as defeatist, I'm saying that in the event we cannot conclusively solve the game, by taking some honestly pretty simple actions we can create a safety net for ourselves.
Do the math; with just one no lynch we buy an entire extra day for ourselves, and with three we get two. The only reason I'm pushing for it today rather than tomorrow is because if we do it today, we still have the option of the third no-lynch, instead of being forced into LyLo.
I don't consider building ourselves a safety net to be defeatist; I consider it common sense. We could rely on our ability to scumhunt and solve the game, just like we could rely on good diet and exercise to stay alive long-term, but just like most people want insurance just in case the whole diet and exercise thing doesn't work out because you develop, idk, cancer, I'd also rather be able to fall back upon the Seer in case that plan doesn't work out.
Vote Tracker:
Sapph: Legacy
Gerrick: Nyght
Lau: GerrickDoc: No Lynch
Nyght: LauLoS: Anubhav
TGN: SapphDoc: cozmikrae
Colberius: BSR
LoS: Doc
Doc: No Lynch
Vote Count:
LoS - Sapph (1)
Nyght - Gerrick (1)
Gerrick - Lau (1)
Lau - Nyght (1)
TGN - Sapph
BSR - Colberius (1)
Doc - LoS (1)
No Lynch - Doc (1)
Fascinating interplay between Nyght, Gerrick, and Lau incidentally. Neat little triangle there. I don't read anything into it, but it's amusing.
No, Nyght sits firmly in my nulls at present. Of course, I only have one scum lean at present, and that's Anu.I'm surprised you aren't seeing it, since you hosted last game. Look how wildly different Nyght's approach to this game is than last and look at how Nyght is responding to my reads. I think those two things make Nyght clear cut town here.
At the risk of sounding wolfy, I'm worried that since we're already on page 6 on Day 1 that we might be putting off those players who haven't played Werewolf here in a while. This format of Werewolf (Lil' Wolf) was aimed at giving those players a slower game and not have to stay on top of the game 24/7, lest they come back to 20 votes in as many pages. I'd like to hear from taulover, Hydra, Colberius X (and perhaps BraveSirRobin) to get their thoughts on how the game is currently progressing to make sure this isn't getting too out of hand and turn into one of our now regular games of Werewolf. Also as Michi pointed out in the OP, I'd discourage everyone from using any sort of Werewolf-based abbreviations as well as posting 7 bloody times in a row (looking at you, Laurentus O_O).How do I think it's progressing? Quite spectacularly! No one knows anything, yet so many people know so very much.
I know I wasn't there for the last game in question, but I've definitely suggested to teammates that they change up their usual style if I know how they play, just to throw people off, nevermind doing so myself. Different behavior on Day 1 is not nearly enough to draw good conclusions.No, Nyght sits firmly in my nulls at present. Of course, I only have one scum lean at present, and that's Anu.I'm surprised you aren't seeing it, since you hosted last game. Look how wildly different Nyght's approach to this game is than last and look at how Nyght is responding to my reads. I think those two things make Nyght clear cut town here.
Ah, now I understand. I think we are using very different methods of reading. I'm not considering who or when Nyght voted at all, I'm looking at his thought process / mindset in the game so far (as opposed to a couple of specific posts of his being towny) and I just can not equate the person that I am seeing now with the person I wolfed with last game. Like if how Nyght was playing could be described as a story then Nyght being scum would mean that the story had a bunch of plot holes already.No, Nyght sits firmly in my nulls at present. Of course, I only have one scum lean at present, and that's Anu.I'm surprised you aren't seeing it, since you hosted last game. Look how wildly different Nyght's approach to this game is than last and look at how Nyght is responding to my reads. I think those two things make Nyght clear cut town here.
I'm not seeing a major difference. He voted for someone right off the bat last game, too, and I would expect the experience to give him more range if he randed Wolf, again.
Considering how lynch happy we were in the last game we played together, this no lynch preference is interesting. And if I recall correctly, Doc was one of the ones recommending a D1 lynch for info purposes. Not sure what to make of that.On the assumption you're targeting me because I'm not especially scumhunting (because on what basis would I try? This is RVS, nobody knows diddly except scum and they're not gonna tell us anything), I've said it before and I'll say it again; if there ever really is a time for a mislynch to get info, D1 is that time, because today of all days information is at a premium and lives are not.I did, in fact, recommend that in the first half of my post, before changing my mind for the reasons I outline below.But... he said he's choosing a different route and this is a much smaller game, so I suppose it stands to reason that we're might lose to the humans if we mislynch at the incredible rate we did last game.My reasoning changed solely because if we no lynch today and every other day after, we hit LyLo D6, whereas if we no lynch tomorrow and every other day after we hit LyLo D5. If we lynch every day, we'll hit LyLo D4, or D5 if the defenders block 1 NK.
Idk, it checks out and doesn't read too humanish to me.
(All of these numbers are worst-case, where we mislynch every day, because I'm paranoid after the absolute fucking drubbing LoS gave us (well, full disclosure, in my head mostly just me) last game)
My decision that no-lynch is optimal is on the basis that we decide the Seer solving the game is optimal. If we decide otherwise - since LoS does point out that's sort of lame and a bad lesson to teach - then I'm happy to try going back to old tactics.
Two other people who I both townread have picked up on Anubhav feeling... off... this game so far I think? Particularly the town read on Gerrick didn't seem genuine to me.
Also got a very solid TR on both Nyght and Lau right now. And to address what Lau said in regards to my reads, my explanations for stuff will be similar NAI because I always plan them out a lot in my head.
If there's anything you want to ask me about my town/scum play then I'm usually happy to answer honestly. I'm not concerned about outing any of my scumtells because doing so just forces me to play better whenever I next rand scum.
Considering how lynch happy we were in the last game we played together, this no lynch preference is interesting. And if I recall correctly, Doc was one of the ones recommending a D1 lynch for info purposes. Not sure what to make of that.On the assumption you're targeting me because I'm not especially scumhunting (because on what basis would I try? This is RVS, nobody knows diddly except scum and they're not gonna tell us anything), I've said it before and I'll say it again; if there ever really is a time for a mislynch to get info, D1 is that time, because today of all days information is at a premium and lives are not.I did, in fact, recommend that in the first half of my post, before changing my mind for the reasons I outline below.But... he said he's choosing a different route and this is a much smaller game, so I suppose it stands to reason that we're might lose to the humans if we mislynch at the incredible rate we did last game.My reasoning changed solely because if we no lynch today and every other day after, we hit LyLo D6, whereas if we no lynch tomorrow and every other day after we hit LyLo D5. If we lynch every day, we'll hit LyLo D4, or D5 if the defenders block 1 NK.
Idk, it checks out and doesn't read too humanish to me.
(All of these numbers are worst-case, where we mislynch every day, because I'm paranoid after the absolute fucking drubbing LoS gave us (well, full disclosure, in my head mostly just me) last game)
My decision that no-lynch is optimal is on the basis that we decide the Seer solving the game is optimal. If we decide otherwise - since LoS does point out that's sort of lame and a bad lesson to teach - then I'm happy to try going back to old tactics.
Two other people who I both townread have picked up on Anubhav feeling... off... this game so far I think? Particularly the town read on Gerrick didn't seem genuine to me.
Also got a very solid TR on both Nyght and Lau right now. And to address what Lau said in regards to my reads, my explanations for stuff will be similar NAI because I always plan them out a lot in my head.
If there's anything you want to ask me about my town/scum play then I'm usually happy to answer honestly. I'm not concerned about outing any of my scumtells because doing so just forces me to play better whenever I next rand scum.
Ah, now I understand. I think we are using very different methods of reading. I'm not considering who or when Nyght voted at all, I'm looking at his thought process / mindset in the game so far (as opposed to a couple of specific posts of his being towny) and I just can not equate the person that I am seeing now with the person I wolfed with last game. Like if how Nyght was playing could be described as a story then Nyght being scum would mean that the story had a bunch of plot holes already.Oh, you were wolves together? Then what I brought up about changing behavior is even more relevant. We have no way of knowing that you're not
It's a bit of a different method of reading I've picked up recently which I believe is known as macro reading? Might be cool if I can find an article on the differences.
Yeah but my reads are made from my perspective so I can usually hopefully assume that I'm town when I'm making the reads.Ah, now I understand. I think we are using very different methods of reading. I'm not considering who or when Nyght voted at all, I'm looking at his thought process / mindset in the game so far (as opposed to a couple of specific posts of his being towny) and I just can not equate the person that I am seeing now with the person I wolfed with last game. Like if how Nyght was playing could be described as a story then Nyght being scum would mean that the story had a bunch of plot holes already.Oh, you were wolves together? Then what I brought up about changing behavior is even more relevant. We have no way of knowing that you're not
It's a bit of a different method of reading I've picked up recently which I believe is known as macro reading? Might be cool if I can find an article on the differences.wolveshumans together, very deliberately shaking up the ways you play. Your meta analyses of Nyght could be semi-genuine trains of thought, but for all we know, the behaviors you're examining were suggested by you in the first place as a means of painting Nyght as a townie.
Oh, damn, I think I've been fundamentally misreading something. Do we have linked defenders?I interpreted it as such... @Michi?
Truly tragic.Which Egyptian God is this ?Honestly, it is surprising to me that of all animals that were used, turtles don't particularly have much representation in being the literal faces of the Egyptian gods per se, but they were symbolically linked to Set so I guess?
What do you mean by WIM, LoS?
WIM = Want It More (in reference to winning the game, e.g how enthusiastic the player is... pretty hard to explain if you don't see it used but it usually indicates a townsperson if they are eager to solve the game).How are you defining scum hunting, exactly, LoS?
To be completely honest, scum hunting was probably a bad description. I would more say that Nyght was eager to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the game which is what he described as "getting the ball roling" i.e looking for scum (which is why I originally called it scumhunting but I think I took a bit of a logical leap there). To contrast, last game Nyght seemed to prefer to try to avoid discussion like that last game when possible and would often come and talk to me in wolf chat without ever saying anything in thread so I think it marks a change in attitude for him because of a change in alignments.Colberius I would have kept you in the null category based on your first post but you're a town lean for me now. And to answer your question, it's because I originally started playing mafia on discord servers where players might post only 2 relevant lines of information in an entire game and I eventually learned how to (at least attempt to) read into that (and my reads are weak at this stage to be completely honest which is why so many people are just in the nulls category).Makes sense. I was more asking how to interpret the list, though. Obviously it's Town/Null/Scum, but does the order matter?
The order does matter for lists I make (may vary based on the person) but at this point the differences are so thin that it's not really worth considering.
I'm shocked to see a reads list this early on. Well done sir. You're either possessed of one hell of an intuition or a bit more information than the rest of us...
Vote: Make NyghtOwl Leave
Because he also won last game. Amd to anyone who mentions me, I'm gonna be at work for the next 12 hours, so I won't be able to see it until then.
Teehee. I think Gerrick is mad that I turned things around on him last game but it's okay. I don't hold grudges.
That being said, I'm gonna Vote to make Laurentia leave because it's never a good idea to let a formerly omnipotent being attend your parties.
But... if you didn't do anything wrong, you have nothing to hide. Do you?
I mean I have a lot of things to hide. But this is a Sfw forum.
I'm just getting the ball rolling and stirring up some responses.
Vote: Make NyghtOwl Leave
Because he also won last game. Amd to anyone who mentions me, I'm gonna be at work for the next 12 hours, so I won't be able to see it until then.
Teehee. I think Gerrick is mad that I turned things around on him last game but it's okay. I don't hold grudges.
That being said, I'm gonna Vote to make Laurentia leave because it's never a good idea to let a formerly omnipotent being attend your parties.
@NyghtOwl
Can I have a read list from you , just wanna see where you place the veterans
Would you be willing to wait a few hours until I get home? If not I can cobble one together in between patients.
Doc
Legacy of Smiles(I am already regretting)
Townlean : Gerrick as of now
Null on Sapph , TGN , ENE, and Lau for time being , D1 posts are the scummiest of all tbh .
Scum:
Nyght: I have seen her as wolf already , and she tried to start a wagon on a veteran . Here she does the same thing and botes Lau , almost siting the same reason
Colberius: Seems like he had nothing to add , just wanted to grab onto something that came flying by , which is Doc's statement saying why Lau didn't mention BSR among inactive listings and placed it in.
A Nyght/Colberius scumteam looks very possible to me.
For context I started out the last game in a very town mindset as I had missed the pm for the group chat and jumped right into the game thinking I was town. Which I imagine is why I got town read as early as I did. I was working under the impression I was town.
Myself, I find it strange that you've latched onto Gerrick as a town when there hasn't been much to go on. But you've scum read someone who threw a vote on them.
Someone asked for a read list so here it is.SpoilerTown:Doc and Laurentus
Null:Coz, TGN, Sapph, Hydra, Colb, BSR, Gerrick, Tail, ENE
Scum:Anub and Legacy
I would be more than happy to answer any inquiries into my reasoning.
And also, unvote: Laurentus
He seems pretty genuinely invested in working things out.
Screw doing this on a phone and getting autocorrected.
Vote to make Laurentus leave
Which Egyptian God is this ?Honestly, it is surprising to me that of all animals that were used, turtles don't particularly have much representation in being the literal faces of the Egyptian gods per se, but they were symbolically linked to Set so I guess?
I thought it looked more like a japanese yokai.
Not sure what you're referring to here. I'm in Anu's nulls, and I'm the one who voted for Gerrick.Doc
Legacy of Smiles(I am already regretting)
Townlean : Gerrick as of now
Null on Sapph , TGN , ENE, and Lau for time being , D1 posts are the scummiest of all tbh .
Scum:
Nyght: I have seen her as wolf already , and she tried to start a wagon on a veteran . Here she does the same thing and botes Lau , almost siting the same reason
Colberius: Seems like he had nothing to add , just wanted to grab onto something that came flying by , which is Doc's statement saying why Lau didn't mention BSR among inactive listings and placed it in.
A Nyght/Colberius scumteam looks very possible to me.
For context I started out the last game in a very town mindset as I had missed the pm for the group chat and jumped right into the game thinking I was town. Which I imagine is why I got town read as early as I did. I was working under the impression I was town.
Myself, I find it strange that you've latched onto Gerrick as a town when there hasn't been much to go on. But you've scum read someone who threw a vote on them.
I was talking about Anu. Not you. I voted for you as a poke to get a reaction. And it was sufficiently playful to allay suspicion for the moment.
@NyghtOwl
Can I have a read list from you , just wanna see where you place the veterans
Would you be willing to wait a few hours until I get home? If not I can cobble one together in between patients.
At the risk of sounding wolfy, I'm worried that since we're already on page 6 on Day 1 that we might be putting off those players who haven't played Werewolf here in a while. This format of Werewolf (Lil' Wolf) was aimed at giving those players a slower game and not have to stay on top of the game 24/7, lest they come back to 20 votes in as many pages. I'd like to hear from taulover, Hydra, Colberius X (and perhaps BraveSirRobin) to get their thoughts on how the game is currently progressing to make sure this isn't getting too out of hand and turn into one of our now regular games of Werewolf. Also as Michi pointed out in the OP, I'd discourage everyone from using any sort of Werewolf-based abbreviations as well as posting 7 bloody times in a row (looking at you, Laurentus O_O).Also 1000% feel this coming home after work to this much stuff is definitely something. I really wish there was a feature where there was a "synopsis" for vote tracking with links to vote posts themselves. Doc's vote tracker was a good start for sure.
Don't vote for me, I'm innocent. It took a discord ping to get me to realize the game had started and it's already out of hand. Rereading...This clears coz for me more than anything else could
Not sure what you're referring to here. I'm in Anu's nulls, and I'm the one who voted for Gerrick.Doc
Legacy of Smiles(I am already regretting)
Townlean : Gerrick as of now
Null on Sapph , TGN , ENE, and Lau for time being , D1 posts are the scummiest of all tbh .
Scum:
Nyght: I have seen her as wolf already , and she tried to start a wagon on a veteran . Here she does the same thing and botes Lau , almost siting the same reason
Colberius: Seems like he had nothing to add , just wanted to grab onto something that came flying by , which is Doc's statement saying why Lau didn't mention BSR among inactive listings and placed it in.
A Nyght/Colberius scumteam looks very possible to me.
For context I started out the last game in a very town mindset as I had missed the pm for the group chat and jumped right into the game thinking I was town. Which I imagine is why I got town read as early as I did. I was working under the impression I was town.
Myself, I find it strange that you've latched onto Gerrick as a town when there hasn't been much to go on. But you've scum read someone who threw a vote on them.
@NyghtOwl
Can I have a read list from you , just wanna see where you place the veterans
Would you be willing to wait a few hours until I get home? If not I can cobble one together in between patients.
Yeah sure , I don't wanna disturb you when you are busy
Damn , I thought you quoted me @Laurentus . However this voting of Gerrick looked scummy , but its D1 , the scummiest are the good guys on D1 , aren't they ?
@Anubhav Ghosh, what do you think about the play between LoS and Nyght?
Damn , I thought you quoted me @Laurentus . However this voting of Gerrick looked scummy , but its D1 , the scummiest are the good guys on D1 , aren't they ?
I mean, if I'm scum, eliminating me early is going to up Town's chances a lot. So if you felt it was scummy, why not vote?
At the same time, Mr. and Mrs. Happy Wolf (wtf comes up with these names?) can choose to protect one of their friendly wolf pals from the mean old humans. While they can’t protect themselves, they can protect each other, and they can’t protect the same wolf twice in a row.From the name 'Mr. and Mrs.' as well as the constant indication of 'they can protect each other but not themselves', it does seem to strongly imply they're linked. That's certainly the assumption I've been working off of, but I suppose we can reserve judgment for if/when Pengu clarifies.
...
shakes head "Mister and Missus Happy Wolf" who are basically our two defenders. During each night, they can each protect someone from a potential human-attack (has less zing than "wolf attack" imo). They can't protect the same person twice in a row, and they can't protect themselves (though they can protect each other).
...
1. Mr. and Mrs. Happy Wolf cannot protect themselves, nor the same person twice in a row. They can, however, choose to protect each other.
So here's the thing: if we just go no lynch, then that means the votes carry no pressure, and votes that carry no pressure means I can't gauge people's reactions.Yeah, I'm trying to weigh D1 information against what is for me the near-certitude of a D6 solved game.
Not very sure what LoS usually does in this case , but he certainly flatters the one who susses him (he 99% townie-d me last time)Shit, that was something explicitly pointed out in last game's deadchat from when I looked it over.
@NyghtOwl
Can I have a read list from you , just wanna see where you place the veterans
Someone asked for a read list so here it is.SpoilerTown:Doc and Laurentus
Null:Coz, TGN, Sapph, Hydra, Colb, BSR, Gerrick, Tail, ENE
Scum:Anub and Legacy
I would be more than happy to answer any inquiries into my reasoning.
And also, unvote: Laurentus
He seems pretty genuinely invested in working things out.
The thread feels so inactive, tho. We're only on page 6. I've been restraining myself a lot already.How are we already at 8 pages :o
I mean, I have you in my scum leans, too, and her call-out to LoS is a valid one. So I'd say it's looking pretty dang Townie for Nyght.
Since I have drawn a large amount of suspicion , that might be going well for me in case I don't get lynched , because the seer (if active :'( ) will certainly have the urge to read me and potentially clear me . As of now my 10 fingers are pointed in 10 directions , and so I will advocate for a no lynch . Btw @Michi , when is EoD , today or tomorrow ?
Since I have drawn a large amount of suspicion , that might be going well for me in case I don't get lynched , because the seer (if active :'( ) will certainly have the urge to read me and potentially clear me . As of now my 10 fingers are pointed in 10 directions , and so I will advocate for a no lynch . Btw @Michi , when is EoD , today or tomorrow ?
I would be incredibly shocked if I'm not the N1 scan, honestly.
Since I have drawn a large amount of suspicion , that might be going well for me in case I don't get lynched , because the seer (if active :'( ) will certainly have the urge to read me and potentially clear me . As of now my 10 fingers are pointed in 10 directions , and so I will advocate for a no lynch . Btw @Michi , when is EoD , today or tomorrow ?
I would be incredibly shocked if I'm not the N1 scan, honestly.
U need someone to scan you ? You are so very townie
Kind of just tradition, to be honest. At least it was when I was around. Guess it just depends on how long the Seer's been playing WW in Wintreath.Since I have drawn a large amount of suspicion , that might be going well for me in case I don't get lynched , because the seer (if active :'( ) will certainly have the urge to read me and potentially clear me . As of now my 10 fingers are pointed in 10 directions , and so I will advocate for a no lynch . Btw @Michi , when is EoD , today or tomorrow ?
I would be incredibly shocked if I'm not the N1 scan, honestly.
U need someone to scan you ? You are so very townie
Why is everyone her-ing Nyght? He's male, he uses he/his pronouns, about the only female thing to do with him is sometimes he does drag.
Since I have drawn a large amount of suspicion , that might be going well for me in case I don't get lynched , because the seer (if active :'( ) will certainly have the urge to read me and potentially clear me . As of now my 10 fingers are pointed in 10 directions , and so I will advocate for a no lynch . Btw @Michi , when is EoD , today or tomorrow ?
Since I have drawn a large amount of suspicion , that might be going well for me in case I don't get lynched , because the seer (if active :'( ) will certainly have the urge to read me and potentially clear me . As of now my 10 fingers are pointed in 10 directions , and so I will advocate for a no lynch . Btw @Michi , when is EoD , today or tomorrow ?
I would be incredibly shocked if I'm not the N1 scan, honestly.
U need someone to scan you ? You are so very townie
How do you go from "that first post was scummy" to "but you're so Town, tho?" I need the progression here.
Why is everyone her-ing Nyght? He's male, he uses he/his pronouns, about the only female thing to do with him is sometimes he does drag.
I think there's a good chance that it's me. You're very towny rn and people aren't really sure how to read me. I am more than happy to get scanned tonight and I think that might be easier for everyone if I am? (And you can get used to my town game that way).Since I have drawn a large amount of suspicion , that might be going well for me in case I don't get lynched , because the seer (if active :'( ) will certainly have the urge to read me and potentially clear me . As of now my 10 fingers are pointed in 10 directions , and so I will advocate for a no lynch . Btw @Michi , when is EoD , today or tomorrow ?
I would be incredibly shocked if I'm not the N1 scan, honestly.
I don't think there's a consensus scum read to be found.That's moreso why I suggested a low-hanging fruit as my second option. I would much rather chop a player who isn't going to be active / clear themselves from talking anyway than just not vote anyone at all.
Also, it won't make much of a difference for general information purposes if anyone gets scanned here, unless the Seer hits the connected defenders. The Seer can't roll claim in this setup, nor even hint at their role, and so they can't publicly clear someone either.Uhm I don’t think so
I think there's a good chance that it's me. You're very towny rn and people aren't really sure how to read me. I am more than happy to get scanned tonight and I think that might be easier for everyone if I am? (And you can get used to my town game that way).Since I have drawn a large amount of suspicion , that might be going well for me in case I don't get lynched , because the seer (if active :'( ) will certainly have the urge to read me and potentially clear me . As of now my 10 fingers are pointed in 10 directions , and so I will advocate for a no lynch . Btw @Michi , when is EoD , today or tomorrow ?
I would be incredibly shocked if I'm not the N1 scan, honestly.
And since all three of us are in agreement that we wanna lynch someone, who do we want?
EoD is exactly 48 hours from when I first started the phase. Any votes after that time period will not be counted regardless of whether or not I've made the EoD post.
And since all three of us are in agreement that we wanna lynch someone, who do we want?EoD is exactly 48 hours from when I first started the phase. Any votes after that time period will not be counted regardless of whether or not I've made the EoD post.
EOD passed 2 hours ago so don't even bother.
(Is this a possibility for future Werewolf @Wintermoot ? )Eventually, but not soon. Currently my focus is on getting the Landsraad up and running, finishing the reformat of the forum view skin, and then working to improve integration from NationStates. There may be small improvements that might help with Werewolf in that period, but I can't commit to anything large at the moment.
NOW is the time to post a reads list.
Town Leans:*Complains I townread people on single towny posts*
BraveSirRobin - That post, tho.
NyghtOwl - Good callouts against LoS, although I am somewhat wary that he Town-read me so soon, and with the reason that I was looking genuinely solvey, when I really haven't put nearly as much effort into the game as I usually do as Town.
TGN - Good vibes, honestly.
Doc - Went against conventional wisdom in a big way, which is not something I would think likely for Wolf!Doc to do, and I would hazard to say that apart from me, he was likely to be the kill that got blocked.
Nulls:
Legacy of Smiles - Was way too eager to clear me, to be honest, which I will always find suspect, and quite a few of the arguments he made in the previous day had very weird reasoning, like his early Town read for Nyght, especially with the scum-hunting reason. Still, was not as eager to avoid confrontation as he was as Wolf. So into nulls he goes.
cozmikrae - I don't recall much content.
Gerrick - Same as above.
Eastern New England - Same, but expect this to improve a bit now that he's dead in the XKI game.
Anubhav Ghosh - Very odd reasoning which I still can't quite make sense of. How does he go from making me his top scum read to also not wishing to lynch me, and then also make the weird argument that if I'm looking scummy, I'm probably Town. Looks like a Wolf trying to get rid of a dangerous Townie, but not quite knowing how to push it because of lack of experience. At the same time, I noticed something which gives me a bit of pause to outright scum read.
Colberius X - Quite a bit of content, not a lot of it memorable.
taulover - Very inactive, but this is NAI for him and Hydra.
Hydra - See above.
Sapphiron - Almost wanna town-lean, because the content that was there was not bad, but I'm never clearing Sapph that soon.
Colberius X and Sapphiron, am I Town, scum or null to you?To me? Null.
Yeah, what I'm looking for here is more of a gut-read based on the available posts I've made.I'm at the stage where I would be surprised if you were anything but town to be honest.
Town Leans:
BraveSirRobin - That post, tho.
NyghtOwl - Good callouts against LoS, although I am somewhat wary that he Town-read me so soon, and with the reason that I was looking genuinely solvey, when I really haven't put nearly as much effort into the game as I usually do as Town.
TGN - Good vibes, honestly.
Doc - Went against conventional wisdom in a big way, which is not something I would think likely for Wolf!Doc to do, and I would hazard to say that apart from me, he was likely to be the kill that got blocked.
Nulls:
Legacy of Smiles - Was way too eager to clear me, to be honest, which I will always find suspect, and quite a few of the arguments he made in the previous day had very weird reasoning, like his early Town read for Nyght, especially with the scum-hunting reason. Still, was not as eager to avoid confrontation as he was as Wolf. So into nulls he goes.
cozmikrae - I don't recall much content.
Gerrick - Same as above.
Eastern New England - Same, but expect this to improve a bit now that he's dead in the XKI game.
Anubhav Ghosh - Very odd reasoning which I still can't quite make sense of. How does he go from making me his top scum read to also not wishing to lynch me, and then also make the weird argument that if I'm looking scummy, I'm probably Town. Looks like a Wolf trying to get rid of a dangerous Townie, but not quite knowing how to push it because of lack of experience. At the same time, I noticed something which gives me a bit of pause to outright scum read.
Colberius X - Quite a bit of content, not a lot of it memorable.
taulover - Very inactive, but this is NAI for him and Hydra.
Hydra - See above.
Sapphiron - Almost wanna town-lean, because the content that was there was not bad, but I'm never clearing Sapph that soon.
And really , will it be Lau , LoS and me , making a triangle of townie here . Nyght has been active , but some have shown scanty activity . Doc is eerily silent today (I will blame the timezone , maybe its nap time ) .
Also Lau , I have played just one game before , and I did see that D1 was all chaos , and everyone wanted to act scummy , or looked scummy atleast . Those who didn't really came out on top as scum ( Nyght , Ogun/LoS and even Michi got votes piling on him in posts made in quick succession , but then the wagon went the other way). Mel tried to be outright scummy as well . Also I am trying to figure out what actually is making you hesitant to lynch me @Laurentus
Hello Anubhav. Do you have any particular thoughts on any of the people I'm about to list and if so would you mind sharing them with me please?
Colberius X
Gerrick
Eastern New England
Hydra
taulover
And really , will it be Lau , LoS and me , making a triangle of townie here . Nyght has been active , but some have shown scanty activity . Doc is eerily silent today (I will blame the timezone , maybe its nap time ) .
Also Lau , I have played just one game before , and I did see that D1 was all chaos , and everyone wanted to act scummy , or looked scummy atleast . Those who didn't really came out on top as scum ( Nyght , Ogun/LoS and even Michi got votes piling on him in posts made in quick succession , but then the wagon went the other way). Mel tried to be outright scummy as well . Also I am trying to figure out what actually is making you hesitant to lynch me @Laurentus
Town doesn't answer this question.
And really , will it be Lau , LoS and me , making a triangle of townie here . Nyght has been active , but some have shown scanty activity . Doc is eerily silent today (I will blame the timezone , maybe its nap time ) .
Also Lau , I have played just one game before , and I did see that D1 was all chaos , and everyone wanted to act scummy , or looked scummy atleast . Those who didn't really came out on top as scum ( Nyght , Ogun/LoS and even Michi got votes piling on him in posts made in quick succession , but then the wagon went the other way). Mel tried to be outright scummy as well . Also I am trying to figure out what actually is making you hesitant to lynch me @Laurentus
Town doesn't answer this question.
Umm , which question ? I wasn't asking any ???
And really , will it be Lau , LoS and me , making a triangle of townie here . Nyght has been active , but some have shown scanty activity . Doc is eerily silent today (I will blame the timezone , maybe its nap time ) .
Also Lau , I have played just one game before , and I did see that D1 was all chaos , and everyone wanted to act scummy , or looked scummy atleast . Those who didn't really came out on top as scum ( Nyght , Ogun/LoS and even Michi got votes piling on him in posts made in quick succession , but then the wagon went the other way). Mel tried to be outright scummy as well . Also I am trying to figure out what actually is making you hesitant to lynch me @Laurentus
Town doesn't answer this question.
Umm , which question ? I wasn't asking any ???
Your implied question of: "what makes you hesitant to lynch me."
[nowhere
I was trying to figure it out , I never said that I wanted you to answer that , and its nowhere near to an implication of me asking anything . Its just a revelation of my upcoming plans, and figuring out what was so not-scummy in me . Are you even the dangerous townie here ? This seems quite out of the ordinary from my side . Basically asking you which comment of mine makes me an angel , is like asking you to produce a confidential stuff in public.
People consider me a good player AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Well, I'll at least try not to disappoint you.
People consider me a good player AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Well, I'll at least try not to disappoint you.
So here's the thing. We don't THINK you're a good player. We know you are. Which is why this kinda post comes off hella sus at the moment. And I think that's why I've got you on my scumreads at the moment.
Ah, now I understand. I think we are using very different methods of reading. I'm not considering who or when Nyght voted at all, I'm looking at his thought process / mindset in the game so far (as opposed to a couple of specific posts of his being towny) and I just can not equate the person that I am seeing now with the person I wolfed with last game. Like if how Nyght was playing could be described as a story then Nyght being scum would mean that the story had a bunch of plot holes already.Oh, you were wolves together? Then what I brought up about changing behavior is even more relevant. We have no way of knowing that you're not
It's a bit of a different method of reading I've picked up recently which I believe is known as macro reading? Might be cool if I can find an article on the differences.wolveshumans together, very deliberately shaking up the ways you play. Your meta analyses of Nyght could be semi-genuine trains of thought, but for all we know, the behaviors you're examining were suggested by you in the first place as a means of painting Nyght as a townie.
At the risk of sounding wolfy, I'm worried that since we're already on page 6 on Day 1 that we might be putting off those players who haven't played Werewolf here in a while. This format of Werewolf (Lil' Wolf) was aimed at giving those players a slower game and not have to stay on top of the game 24/7, lest they come back to 20 votes in as many pages. I'd like to hear from taulover, Hydra, Colberius X (and perhaps BraveSirRobin) to get their thoughts on how the game is currently progressing to make sure this isn't getting too out of hand and turn into one of our now regular games of Werewolf. Also as Michi pointed out in the OP, I'd discourage everyone from using any sort of Werewolf-based abbreviations as well as posting 7 bloody times in a row (looking at you, Laurentus O_O).How do I think it's progressing? Quite spectacularly! No one knows anything, yet so many people know so very much.
Do I think it may also be a bit much already for "Lil' Wolf"? I think it might, but I haven't been around to see what Werewolf has turned into around here, so not much basis for comparison.
If possible, I would appreciate a few less WW specific abbreviations (at least without defining it the first time it comes up). I know Laurentus has that awesome post of WW Terminology, but I'd rather not keep having to go back to it. :PI know I wasn't there for the last game in question, but I've definitely suggested to teammates that they change up their usual style if I know how they play, just to throw people off, nevermind doing so myself. Different behavior on Day 1 is not nearly enough to draw good conclusions.No, Nyght sits firmly in my nulls at present. Of course, I only have one scum lean at present, and that's Anu.I'm surprised you aren't seeing it, since you hosted last game. Look how wildly different Nyght's approach to this game is than last and look at how Nyght is responding to my reads. I think those two things make Nyght clear cut town here.
Oh, damn, I think I've been fundamentally misreading something. Do we have linked defenders?I interpreted it as such... @Michi?
Colberius I would have kept you in the null category based on your first post but you're a town lean for me now. And to answer your question, it's because I originally started playing mafia on discord servers where players might post only 2 relevant lines of information in an entire game and I eventually learned how to (at least attempt to) read into that (and my reads are weak at this stage to be completely honest which is why so many people are just in the nulls category).Makes sense. I was more asking how to interpret the list, though. Obviously it's Town/Null/Scum, but does the order matter?
An offer I can't refuse! Don't expect much though lol.I know you're holding off on explaining your reasoning, understandably, but how do you even read this in the first place?Spoiler
Legacy of Smiles
TGN
NyghtOwl
Laurentus
Eastern New England
Anubhav Ghosh
Sapphiron
Everybody who hasn't been in the thread
taulover
Gerrick
Doc
So, like, 3 town reads and 1 scum read right now and everyone else especially I'd want to see more from. I'll probably explain my reads later but I want to see more people form their opinions without giving them chance to copy mine first (accidentally or on purpose).
Anything you have so far, TGN?
Also...
Vote: Doc
And I've posted now; where do I belong? :P
Colberius X and Sapphiron, am I Town, scum or null to you?To me? Null.
Back in the old days, I just had to assume you were scum until you killed me or we were together in the Seer's group chat.
Now, I'm honestly so out of practice that I'm just hesitant to draw conclusions. (At least, not ones I feel strongly enough to share.) I feel like a new player again, especially with all of you guys' reads lists and fancy abbreviations. :P
Hmm, Doc beat me to pointing out the lack of BSR! Lau, did you neglect to mention BSR because you genuinely forgot him, or because your roles are connected by PM and he's been active there? I wonder...
Because he hasn't yet posted (and I know that my family is particularly dangerous) I will Vote: Make BraveSirRobin leave.
Lau you are in my null read, I am sensing a town-esque vibe but I am weirded out by the almost town lean qualified by not clearing me (both components viewed together, not individually). And Anub didn't necessarily ask a misdirected question, the question of "what makes you hesitant to lynch me" is a phrase you throw to people throwing accusations at you without actually voting for you, which it happens you were casting doubts on Anub's behaviour without voting for him
If Lau turns out scum , then I will consider LoS as a scum , and stay put on Nyght being scum. Colberius is a persistent scum for me
Lau you are in my null read, I am sensing a town-esque vibe but I am weirded out by the almost town lean qualified by not clearing me (both components viewed together, not individually). And Anub didn't necessarily ask a misdirected question, the question of "what makes you hesitant to lynch me" is a phrase you throw to people throwing accusations at you without actually voting for you, which it happens you were casting doubts on Anub's behaviour without voting for him
Yeah, exactly, a few of my actions have been very questionable, so I'm still confused why I'm characterised as "solvey" by Nyght and why Legacy is clearing me this easily.
I don't count anybody as cleared in this game, I just have a pretty strong town read on you. Generally, I townhunt better than I scumhunt and the way you're acting makes me confident that you're town for now. Reads are subject to change ofc.Lau you are in my null read, I am sensing a town-esque vibe but I am weirded out by the almost town lean qualified by not clearing me (both components viewed together, not individually). And Anub didn't necessarily ask a misdirected question, the question of "what makes you hesitant to lynch me" is a phrase you throw to people throwing accusations at you without actually voting for you, which it happens you were casting doubts on Anub's behaviour without voting for him
Yeah, exactly, a few of my actions have been very questionable, so I'm still confused why I'm characterised as "solvey" by Nyght and why Legacy is clearing me this easily.
Colby's whole quote historyAh, now I understand. I think we are using very different methods of reading. I'm not considering who or when Nyght voted at all, I'm looking at his thought process / mindset in the game so far (as opposed to a couple of specific posts of his being towny) and I just can not equate the person that I am seeing now with the person I wolfed with last game. Like if how Nyght was playing could be described as a story then Nyght being scum would mean that the story had a bunch of plot holes already.Oh, you were wolves together? Then what I brought up about changing behavior is even more relevant. We have no way of knowing that you're not
It's a bit of a different method of reading I've picked up recently which I believe is known as macro reading? Might be cool if I can find an article on the differences.wolveshumans together, very deliberately shaking up the ways you play. Your meta analyses of Nyght could be semi-genuine trains of thought, but for all we know, the behaviors you're examining were suggested by you in the first place as a means of painting Nyght as a townie.At the risk of sounding wolfy, I'm worried that since we're already on page 6 on Day 1 that we might be putting off those players who haven't played Werewolf here in a while. This format of Werewolf (Lil' Wolf) was aimed at giving those players a slower game and not have to stay on top of the game 24/7, lest they come back to 20 votes in as many pages. I'd like to hear from taulover, Hydra, Colberius X (and perhaps BraveSirRobin) to get their thoughts on how the game is currently progressing to make sure this isn't getting too out of hand and turn into one of our now regular games of Werewolf. Also as Michi pointed out in the OP, I'd discourage everyone from using any sort of Werewolf-based abbreviations as well as posting 7 bloody times in a row (looking at you, Laurentus O_O).How do I think it's progressing? Quite spectacularly! No one knows anything, yet so many people know so very much.
Do I think it may also be a bit much already for "Lil' Wolf"? I think it might, but I haven't been around to see what Werewolf has turned into around here, so not much basis for comparison.
If possible, I would appreciate a few less WW specific abbreviations (at least without defining it the first time it comes up). I know Laurentus has that awesome post of WW Terminology, but I'd rather not keep having to go back to it. :PI know I wasn't there for the last game in question, but I've definitely suggested to teammates that they change up their usual style if I know how they play, just to throw people off, nevermind doing so myself. Different behavior on Day 1 is not nearly enough to draw good conclusions.No, Nyght sits firmly in my nulls at present. Of course, I only have one scum lean at present, and that's Anu.I'm surprised you aren't seeing it, since you hosted last game. Look how wildly different Nyght's approach to this game is than last and look at how Nyght is responding to my reads. I think those two things make Nyght clear cut town here.Oh, damn, I think I've been fundamentally misreading something. Do we have linked defenders?I interpreted it as such... @Michi?Colberius I would have kept you in the null category based on your first post but you're a town lean for me now. And to answer your question, it's because I originally started playing mafia on discord servers where players might post only 2 relevant lines of information in an entire game and I eventually learned how to (at least attempt to) read into that (and my reads are weak at this stage to be completely honest which is why so many people are just in the nulls category).Makes sense. I was more asking how to interpret the list, though. Obviously it's Town/Null/Scum, but does the order matter?An offer I can't refuse! Don't expect much though lol.I know you're holding off on explaining your reasoning, understandably, but how do you even read this in the first place?Spoiler
Legacy of Smiles
TGN
NyghtOwl
Laurentus
Eastern New England
Anubhav Ghosh
Sapphiron
Everybody who hasn't been in the thread
taulover
Gerrick
Doc
So, like, 3 town reads and 1 scum read right now and everyone else especially I'd want to see more from. I'll probably explain my reads later but I want to see more people form their opinions without giving them chance to copy mine first (accidentally or on purpose).
Anything you have so far, TGN?
Also...
Vote: Doc
And I've posted now; where do I belong? :PColberius X and Sapphiron, am I Town, scum or null to you?To me? Null.
Back in the old days, I just had to assume you were scum until you killed me or we were together in the Seer's group chat.
Now, I'm honestly so out of practice that I'm just hesitant to draw conclusions. (At least, not ones I feel strongly enough to share.) I feel like a new player again, especially with all of you guys' reads lists and fancy abbreviations. :PHmm, Doc beat me to pointing out the lack of BSR! Lau, did you neglect to mention BSR because you genuinely forgot him, or because your roles are connected by PM and he's been active there? I wonder...
Because he hasn't yet posted (and I know that my family is particularly dangerous) I will Vote: Make BraveSirRobin leave.
So yeah, I'm not getting the same vibe that you're getting from Colby, Anu. He hasn't made a push against anyone, (which I can't immediately recall whether it should be cause for concern with him or not, and come to think, I don't think I've seen him as a Wolf) and it's clear he voted for BraveSirRobin to simply pressure him into speaking.
Also, Sapph, read D1 and Anu's reaction to me voting for Gerrick specifically again, and honestly, if you don't figure out from that why I'm not lynching Anu, then you're probably scum.Not sure what exactly you want me to look at, besides him calling you out for fallacious reasoning of “preemptive defensiveness” when Gerrick is doing his D1 random vote like a lot of us do. Though I can see why that would give you some pause.
If Lau turns out scum , then I will consider LoS as a scum , and stay put on Nyght being scum. Colberius is a persistent scum for me
Walk me through your thought-process here.
Also, Sapph, read D1 and Anu's reaction to me voting for Gerrick specifically again, and honestly, if you don't figure out from that why I'm not lynching Anu, then you're probably scum.Not sure what exactly you want me to look at, besides him calling you out for fallacious reasoning of “preemptive defensiveness” when Gerrick is doing his D1 random vote like a lot of us do. Though I can see why that would give you some pause.
Sapph, bit of a random question but when we came on at EoD1 and you offered to help vote on somebody, who would you have agreed to vote if I'd have suggested them?Literally anyone who has already posted on the thread
Not just random , he did show a casual reason as well , just like he did with Michi last time , calling him a bad person , and this time , like a six-year old craving for revenge just because someone beat him at a game of rock-paper-scissors . This seems normal , don't you think the same ?Yeah that’s Gerrick’s D1 gimmick
Only reason I brought up BSR after his absence from the list was mentioned was that I was working on that message before Doc posted, and got that "Warning - new reply" message when I went to post. Because it was a pair of Valerians, notably my son and brother, I wanted to give them a hard time about it regardless.
Anu, everything I say or do in Werewolf is a push against Laurentus, though usually not particularly seriously. We've been burned by each other too many times before. :P
Laurentus, my gut is leaning towards town for you. Not strongly, but definitely town.
Great!Sapph, bit of a random question but when we came on at EoD1 and you offered to help vote on somebody, who would you have agreed to vote if I'd have suggested them?Literally anyone who has already posted on the thread
Only reason I brought up BSR after his absence from the list was mentioned was that I was working on that message before Doc posted, and got that "Warning - new reply" message when I went to post. Because it was a pair of Valerians, notably my son and brother, I wanted to give them a hard time about it regardless.
Anu, everything I say or do in Werewolf is a push against Laurentus, though usually not particularly seriously. We've been burned by each other too many times before. :P
Laurentus, my gut is leaning towards town for you. Not strongly, but definitely town.
Did you check that warning stuff before you posted the content of that post ?
Hmm, Doc beat me to pointing out the lack of BSR! Lau, did you neglect to mention BSR because you genuinely forgot him, or because your roles are connected by PM and he's been active there? I wonder...
Because he hasn't yet posted (and I know that my family is particularly dangerous) I will Vote: Make BraveSirRobin leave.
Sapph, bit of a random question but when we came on at EoD1 and you offered to help vote on somebody, who would you have agreed to vote if I'd have suggested them?Literally anyone who has already posted on the threadNot just random , he did show a casual reason as well , just like he did with Michi last time , calling him a bad person , and this time , like a six-year old craving for revenge just because someone beat him at a game of rock-paper-scissors . This seems normal , don't you think the same ?Yeah that’s Gerrick’s D1 gimmick
So question: do you think my vote for Gerrick was serious?Lmao of course not
Great!What?
Only reason I brought up BSR after his absence from the list was mentioned was that I was working on that message before Doc posted, and got that "Warning - new reply" message when I went to post. Because it was a pair of Valerians, notably my son and brother, I wanted to give them a hard time about it regardless.
Anu, everything I say or do in Werewolf is a push against Laurentus, though usually not particularly seriously. We've been burned by each other too many times before. :P
Laurentus, my gut is leaning towards town for you. Not strongly, but definitely town.
Did you check that warning stuff before you posted the content of that post ?Hmm, Doc beat me to pointing out the lack of BSR! Lau, did you neglect to mention BSR because you genuinely forgot him, or because your roles are connected by PM and he's been active there? I wonder...
Because he hasn't yet posted (and I know that my family is particularly dangerous) I will Vote: Make BraveSirRobin leave.
Oh, my b, I meant to ask that question to Anu.
The vote post from Colberius X certainly seems a push against you , if not , then a soft try to get you into a soft claim stuff . The other obvious option is trying to distance , and the way he asked you about link to BSR , on relatively miniscule miss seems out of place .I don't mind a push against me, as long as I understand the thought process behind it. It would honestly be very weird to me if Colby doesn't reaction test me, given our long history. We're both base bastards at our cores, and we think alike a lot.
It was a reactions test, I wanted to get a better grasp on you before I was comfortable outing my town lean on you. (The thought process being that scum answering that question would pick the obviously more towny answer and list specific names / groups of people or otherwise react in any way other than what you did, especially because scum-you would have had to already have considered who you were willing to vote in order to presumably not last min vote a scumbuddy and would have probably just shared a tweaked version of your real scum thought process in that case). So the question was designed in a way, I hope, that means that only a Townsperson would have responded the way you did.Great!What?
Oh, my b, I meant to ask that question to Anu.
I was tempted to answer it , but waited for Sapph , as of the vote , I don't take the seriousness around it as concerning , the pre-emptive defensiveness part of your reasoning rang alarm , and he said that he would be busy , and honestly , its the last excuse that could be distrusted if a player is honest . And Gerrick is a dangerous person out there , which is why an early wagon on him could have had ended as a farewell for Gerrick.
It was a reactions test, I wanted to get a better grasp on you before I was comfortable outing my town lean on you. (The thought process being that scum answering that question would pick the obviously more towny answer and list specific names / groups of people or otherwise react in any way other than what you did, especially because scum-you would have had to already have considered who you were willing to vote in order to presumably not last min vote a scumbuddy and would have probably just shared a tweaked version of your real scum thought process in that case). So the question was designed in a way, I hope, that means that only a Townsperson would have responded the way you did.Great!What?
Not an exhaustive reason to TR you but I'm fine giving you the day pass for that + how you acted late D1.
Anubhav, thanks for the question, I'll get to answering you shortly when I have time to sit down.
Great , now I don't know if I am right about this , because I never switched in between writing a post to check the warning notifs, but your post came 8mins after Doc's post , and your post couldn't have taken more than 3-4mins to type out(at most) . Pls correct me if I have got something wrong about the timing and stuffMaybe 3-4 minutes for a normal person... :P Anyone who knows me well knows that I'm a man of few, carefully crafted words. In life in general, and in WW especially. When I saw that Doc had posted, it took me at least 2 minutes to decide whether or not to still post, much less actually revise my post.
I don't mind a push against me, as long as I understand the thought process behind it. It would honestly be very weird to me if Colby doesn't reaction test me, given our long history. We're both base bastards at our cores, and we think alike a lot.Can wholeheartedly confirm.
I would have 100% failed that test if you asked me last game. Sapphiron's response doesn't mean town or scum, I think it shows how much thought he put into yesterday's vote (which isn't something Sapph would try to hide because why would he hide that?). Of course, there's a chance this is just a really dumb play by me but I can at least say that I accurately predicted what Sapph would respond to what I said (assuming he was town from my earlier TL).It was a reactions test, I wanted to get a better grasp on you before I was comfortable outing my town lean on you. (The thought process being that scum answering that question would pick the obviously more towny answer and list specific names / groups of people or otherwise react in any way other than what you did, especially because scum-you would have had to already have considered who you were willing to vote in order to presumably not last min vote a scumbuddy and would have probably just shared a tweaked version of your real scum thought process in that case). So the question was designed in a way, I hope, that means that only a Townsperson would have responded the way you did.Great!What?
Not an exhaustive reason to TR you but I'm fine giving you the day pass for that + how you acted late D1.
Anubhav, thanks for the question, I'll get to answering you shortly when I have time to sit down.
Nah, LoS, Sapph is a damn good player, that answer was NAI from him.
Great , now I don't know if I am right about this , because I never switched in between writing a post to check the warning notifs, but your post came 8mins after Doc's post , and your post couldn't have taken more than 3-4mins to type out(at most) . Pls correct me if I have got something wrong about the timing and stuffMaybe 3-4 minutes for a normal person... :P Anyone who knows me well knows that I'm a man of few, carefully crafted words. In life in general, and in WW especially. When I saw that Doc had posted, it took me at least 2 minutes to decide whether or not to still post, much less actually revise my post.I don't mind a push against me, as long as I understand the thought process behind it. It would honestly be very weird to me if Colby doesn't reaction test me, given our long history. We're both base bastards at our cores, and we think alike a lot.Can wholeheartedly confirm.
Oh, my b, I meant to ask that question to Anu.
I was tempted to answer it , but waited for Sapph , as of the vote , I don't take the seriousness around it as concerning , the pre-emptive defensiveness part of your reasoning rang alarm , and he said that he would be busy , and honestly , its the last excuse that could be distrusted if a player is honest . And Gerrick is a dangerous person out there , which is why an early wagon on him could have had ended as a farewell for Gerrick.
Was he a wagon, though? I made one RVS vote on him which he didn't even bother to address.
I'm pretty sure we're arguing for no reason. I'm pretty good with reading Valeria people methinks, and Lau and Colby are definitely very townie right now, they'd be less jokey in my opinion if they were wolves. There'd be some humor for sure, because they probably know they would need to add some to be on par with normal them, but none of it seems even slightly forced so I'm definitely betting both are town.
LoS again really not sure could go either way, but I do like the Gerrick and Doc analysis that he's got. But as Bush says, "fool me once—shame on, shame on you. Fool me twice... you can't fool me again"
Also Anu what exactly are you trying to say about Colby? I think you *might* be a bit overthinking things there I don't see anything particularly incriminating
ALSO WTF FOUR NEW REPLIES WHILE I WAS POSTING AND FREAKING 6 PAGES?!
The vote post from Colberius X certainly seems a push against you , if not , then a soft try to get you into a soft claim stuff . The other obvious option is trying to distance , and the way he asked you about link to BSR , on relatively miniscule miss seems out of place .I don't mind a push against me, as long as I understand the thought process behind it. It would honestly be very weird to me if Colby doesn't reaction test me, given our long history. We're both base bastards at our cores, and we think alike a lot.
I don't at all see what you mean by him trying to get me to soft-claim.
Distancing is a viable hypothesis. I agree with you there.
I don't get what you mean when you say that investigating whether there is a link between me and BSR is out of place. It's a valid road to go down. I'd have asked the same question in Colby's place. This rather chummy thing BSR and I have going on should make any reasonable person wonder at that too.
I don't get what's happening here, Anu. Your reasoning was razor sharp last game. Now you're grasping at straws and, to be blunt, pushing false narratives.
@Legacy of SmilesWould you mind quoting the post where you explained why you scumread Lau? I must have missed it.
What are your thoughts on Lau , and how much do you agree on my points , except for the part in which I put you in the same alignment as I have put Lau in (definitely that part is a disagreement)
Last game you had me! I was mechanically confirmed, widely townread, very active and even knew the identities of all the wolves... What could go wrong?The vote post from Colberius X certainly seems a push against you , if not , then a soft try to get you into a soft claim stuff . The other obvious option is trying to distance , and the way he asked you about link to BSR , on relatively miniscule miss seems out of place .I don't mind a push against me, as long as I understand the thought process behind it. It would honestly be very weird to me if Colby doesn't reaction test me, given our long history. We're both base bastards at our cores, and we think alike a lot.
I don't at all see what you mean by him trying to get me to soft-claim.
Distancing is a viable hypothesis. I agree with you there.
I don't get what you mean when you say that investigating whether there is a link between me and BSR is out of place. It's a valid road to go down. I'd have asked the same question in Colby's place. This rather chummy thing BSR and I have going on should make any reasonable person wonder at that too.
I don't get what's happening here, Anu. Your reasoning was razor sharp last game. Now you're grasping at straws and, to be blunt, pushing false narratives.
Last game was lot , A LOT easier .
@Legacy of SmilesWould you mind quoting the post where you explained why you scumread Lau? I must have missed it.
What are your thoughts on Lau , and how much do you agree on my points , except for the part in which I put you in the same alignment as I have put Lau in (definitely that part is a disagreement)
As for my read on Lau, I will say that I still TR him right now. I think something to point out that I haven't said yet is look at his reaction to my read on him, he obviously doesn't seem to realise that his posts are as towny as they are. Compare that to, say, me as scum last game and a lot of my posts were towny on purpose and, since I was aware of my posts being towny, I never bothered to question others townreading me.
While Doc finishes writing his essay would you mind summarising for me please?@Legacy of SmilesWould you mind quoting the post where you explained why you scumread Lau? I must have missed it.
What are your thoughts on Lau , and how much do you agree on my points , except for the part in which I put you in the same alignment as I have put Lau in (definitely that part is a disagreement)
As for my read on Lau, I will say that I still TR him right now. I think something to point out that I haven't said yet is look at his reaction to my read on him, he obviously doesn't seem to realise that his posts are as towny as they are. Compare that to, say, me as scum last game and a lot of my posts were towny on purpose and, since I was aware of my posts being towny, I never bothered to question others townreading me.
There is no definitive post , every page has some of those scumread posts :P
Doc is eerily silent today (I will blame the timezone, maybe its nap time).Bruh, day phase started two hours ago.
Laurentus, I can't say that I know what you mean by "is Anu alright?" He's been very active, but I'm not town-reading him based on the fact that he seems more bold this game than the last (although it might be that he's just more confident in his scum-hunting abilities). I appreciate his defense of me, but I'm kinda worried that if he is scum that he's trying to tie me to him in case he gets lynched since he would know I'm town (especially since his post in defense of me came a whole day after Lau voted for me). I also really can't figure out why you can't vote for Anubhav based on his reaction to you voting for me or why Sapphiron should be able to figure that out. But I won't vote for him if you don't think we should lynch him.
Reads List (roughly in order):
Town-Lean
Laurentus: pretty certain he's town by what he's saying
BraveSirRobin: reads a lot like last game
Doc: not sure I agree with his "no lynch" strategy (my eyes glaze over at the mention of MyLo and LyLo), but don't think he would push it as scum
NyghtOwl: only seem to agree with what he's said so far in the game
TGN: his few posts read towny to me
cozmikrae: same as TGN
Colberius X: seems a little too chipper to be scum, but it could be a mask or excitement at being scum
Null
Sapphiron: not good at reading Sapph, but I appreciate his defense of me.
Hydra: need more info
Eastern New England: need more info
taulover: need more info
Anubhav: seems more active and accusatory than last game at this point, but it might be that he's just more confident
Scum-Lean
Legacy of Smiles: just can't trust him after last game
Intrigued that we have no votes yet, but I'll go ahead and start us off.
Vote: Legacy of Smiles
Intrigued that we have no votes yet, but I'll go ahead and start us off.I wouldn't necessarily say it's that weird; it's been less than 12 hours since start of day phase. Sure, there's been a lot of activity, but most of it occurred within 4 hours of start of day.
I know if he flips town I'm shooting myself in the foot because Doc is gonna be on my ass as he mentioned earlier if one of us is town the other is likely a wolf.Uh, no, wait wait wait wait wait, what I said was either you're both town or at most only one of you is scum. My statement was intended solely as a 'the mathematical likelihood of you both being scum is infinitesimally low considering you were both also scum last game'.
I was worried he defended you that hard because you're the defender pair.
Anubhav - ... there's a pretty good chunk of me that assumes he's the defender again, considering he and Vro's achievements in that arena last game paired with this last NK being blocked (which, yeet)....wait, you considered Anub might have been the defender this game too?
Oh yeah no, if that's all it was, I'll go ahead and switch votes. I think I'm slightly more confident in Anubhav than Legacy, but Laurentus' hesitation had given me pause (hence his null-read in my list).Wait, you actually SR me?
Switch Vote: Anubhav Ghosh
Intrigued that we have no votes yet, but I'll go ahead and start us off.I wouldn't necessarily say it's that weird; it's been less than 12 hours since start of day phase. Sure, there's been a lot of activity, but most of it occurred within 4 hours of start of day.
That said, considering the flurry of EoD votes last game and our basically constant pattern of mislynches (bar the one on Ruguo), it probably would actually make sense for us to try and make votes happen earlier rather than frenetically towards the end.
Michi's choice of when to end each phase may actually contribute a lot here, since he's got it in the morning US time, which should actually mean we're likely to frontload voting activity a few hours earlier than otherwise.I know if he flips town I'm shooting myself in the foot because Doc is gonna be on my ass as he mentioned earlier if one of us is town the other is likely a wolf.Uh, no, wait wait wait wait wait, what I said was either you're both town or at most only one of you is scum. My statement was intended solely as a 'the mathematical likelihood of you both being scum is infinitesimally low considering you were both also scum last game'.
I have no interest in Vro-TGNing y'all right now, I made that mistake last game, I ain't finna repeat it.I was worried he defended you that hard because you're the defender pair.Anubhav - ... there's a pretty good chunk of me that assumes he's the defender again, considering he and Vro's achievements in that arena last game paired with this last NK being blocked (which, yeet)....wait, you considered Anub might have been the defender this game too?
Huh.
That's...making me think I should re-reconsider where he is in my reads.
As in back upwards towards Town lean, because if two of us were thinking that then there might be something to it.
Yeah, on that point:u is da big brain
DEFENDERS, Y'ALL CAN PROTECT EACH OTHER, SO DON'T BE DUMB ENOUGH NOT TO CLEAR EACH OTHER IN YOUR READS LISTS. EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON IS EXPENDABLE. WE CAN'T LOSE THIS GAME IF THE TWO OF YOU KEEP DEFENDING EACH OTHER AND FIGURE OUT WHO SCUM IS SINCE YOU WILL HAVE A DAMN STRONG POE.
EIWOPYeah, on that point:u is da big brain
DEFENDERS, Y'ALL CAN PROTECT EACH OTHER, SO DON'T BE DUMB ENOUGH NOT TO CLEAR EACH OTHER IN YOUR READS LISTS. EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON IS EXPENDABLE. WE CAN'T LOSE THIS GAME IF THE TWO OF YOU KEEP DEFENDING EACH OTHER AND FIGURE OUT WHO SCUM IS SINCE YOU WILL HAVE A DAMN STRONG POE.
With the exception of Nyght, does anybody who scumreads me have a reason for scumreading me besides being worried and/or not knowing how to read me? I feel like I should be null to most people based on the explanations they're giving.
Yeah, this is exactly how I feel I should be read right now.With the exception of Nyght, does anybody who scumreads me have a reason for scumreading me besides being worried and/or not knowing how to read me? I feel like I should be null to most people based on the explanations they're giving.
I'm null reading you, at present, but I'll say I have no intention of killing you yet.
Oof, apparently not that big brain, because I just remembered that the defenders can't actually protect themselves.I think I would consider the optimal play if you were the defender as being making an excuse to town read your partner as high as possible without it immediately drawing attention or getting them killed if you died.
Still, though, this is the optimal play. Identify as many townies as you possibly can, as quick as you can, so we can just lynch whoever is left and win.
Legacy, I'm scum-reading you because you seem to be the most scummy null I have, and I felt I needed a scum read. I'm not convinced you're scum, but I don't have a lot to go on especially since a quarter of the players are inactive and I'm town-reading a lot of players.Would you be able to explain to me what makes me scummier than Hydra/taulover/ENE please?
What is RVS vote?ISOing you to see if I was willing to actually vote for you instead of just reading you (esp. considering you're currently the biggest wagon, which I don't want to hop aboard unless I'm sure) I noticed you never got an answer to this question; RVS is 'Random Voting Stage', which is another term for a D1 vote made on basically no information whatsoever.
What is RVS vote?ISOing you to see if I was willing to actually vote for you instead of just reading you (esp. considering you're currently the biggest wagon, which I don't want to hop aboard unless I'm sure) I noticed you never got an answer to this question; RVS is 'Random Voting Stage', which is another term for a D1 vote made on basically no information whatsoever.
Now that that's been said, in the end I decided that while I'm still sus vis-a-vis Anubhav, I'd rather we had another wagon both for the reasons I outline above (I don't want to hop aboard the majority wagon unless I'm Sure) and for wagonomics reasons, since I'm obligated to vote today (as are Anubhav, BSR, Cozmik, ENE, Hydra, Nyght, and Tau) rather than no-lynching because of Rule 6.
Moreover, I'd prefer secondary wagon not be LoS, since even though I'm nullreading him, I acknowledge that that may well be driven by residual paranoia from last game rather than anything else, and so if we let him get lynched I think we're likely to be depriving town of a strong analytical mind.
Therefore on balance, I'm going to
Vote: ENE,
because thus far he has made exactly three posts, all of which are a single line and which give us no information to work off of. He doesn't have the least posts, but I think he has the least substance in his posts, and so among my nullreads he's the one I'm most comfortable offering up as a wagon.
My reads lists are not ordered from most to least, this is just stream of consciousness from my reread just now.
Townleans---
Doc - feels exactly like last game.
Nyght - feels less innocent than last game. This is strangely a good thing.
Lau - aggressively town.
LoS - solvey, pushy.
Nulls---
BSR - hmm.... probably my most towny null...
Sapph
Gerrick - feels like last game. Flipped town last game... but I'm not reading them either way yet.
Eastern New England
Hydra
taulover- comes in with a meta game argument and dips again.
Scum lean---
where do I stand?
Colberius X - Lau made a good point: lotsa posts, not a lot that was memorable. Slight scum lean for this fact alone.
Anubhav Ghosh - something pinged me yesterday, but I'm not finding it on the reread. Asks for a seer read... this is always a weird move to me, idk how to interpret.
I already voted.I know, I was just making clear that we (and 6 others) have to vote this phase or we're modkilled. No withdrawing your vote, no switching to vote no lynch, it's gotta be a vote on someone or you're modkilled.
Doc is eerily silent today (I will blame the timezone, maybe its nap time).Bruh, day phase started two hours ago.Pre-Swarm Of New Posts Readslist postAnyway readslist time.WolfTown Core:
Me (duh)
Town Leans:
Anubhav - something about my gut just keeps pinging me in like every third post and I don't know how to describe it, which is why I pulled him from Core to Lean. Why he was in contention at all is that there's a pretty good chunk of me that assumes he's the defender again, considering he and Vro's achievements in that arena last game paired with this last NK being blocked (which, yeet). He also picked up points for agreeing with my sentiment about 'let the Seer Solve', though, even if I'm salty about the post I quote above.
BSR - In a game with this many Valerias, I don't trust any of them until we've found the 1-2 that are the scumteam. But I like his...er...one...post. The only post. It had townie flavor all over it, imo.
Gerrick - his D1 seems like Town Gerrick meta to me.
Null:
Colby - I have no sense of his meta (hence why my D1 reads are basically null), and it strikes me that while he has no sense of the new meta, he's picking it up quick. Weirdly, keeps making a big deal about historically always fighting Lau, but doesn't seem to want to do that this game? Maybe they're buds or maybe he's getting his sea legs.
Hydra and Taulover - Inactive but that's NAI; not filed with the 3 below because they're Valerias.
Cozmik, ENE, TGN - I'll likely change my mind as they post more.
LoS and Nyght - honestly, after last game, I may never fully trust either of them again. But despite that, they've been solvey as hell this game and that's a plus. Nonetheless, Anubhav's sentiment about LoS complimenting/clearing people who sus him last game and him doing so on Lau...well, worrisome. Still, I don't think both he and Nyght are scum, so it's at worst one or the other.
Scum Leans:
Lau - someone has to pad out this list and the fact that we're not at daggers drawn yet seems like a bad sign, since almost invariably when we're not, it's because you're scum and I'm often a fairly useful idiot.
Sapphiron - sorry fam, but 1) statistically speaking, you were Seer last game, implying you're not likely to be this game, and 2) you're a Valeria, which means 3) high scum likelihood.
In the intervening 41 posts (seriously, guys, it had only been an hour when I first put this in, now it's been 45 minutes since then, please, we can't keep doing this), however, some people have changed positions dramatically.
I've basically 180ed on both Anub and Lau and switched their positions accordingly.
Anub is now a scumlean: largely this is informed by just how similar I feel his play is right now to LoS' last game, which was a staggering amount of activity meant to corral people down a particular avenue to a mislynch like a powerwolf in sheepdog's clothing. While there doesn't seem to be a certain specific target being chased, the emphasis on inactive people, when, like, hell, maybe at least some - e.g. Tau's expressed this will likely be 'his last game of WW' because of the activity spike - are just put off. We've had this problem happen before. And the 'Doc sus cause he hasn't posted yet, 2 hours after the phase started' thing is particularly grating now that I'm considering this angle, frankly.
Lau is now a townlean: he's seemed largely focused on clearing and pointing out NAI behavior, but especially that catch on how Anub's play has seemed off is sort of crystallizing how I'm feeling about his posts.
BSR made another post! Which I like the reasoning of, so ratcheting him up slightly, from 'town lean' to, er, 'slightly more town lean'.
I grow less convinced of Sapph's scumminess, which was mostly based on probability anyway, but is a dumb and unfair way to play. I've bumped him up to Null accordingly.
So the new, short version readslist:WolfTown Core:
Me (duh)
Town Leans:
BSR
Gerrick
Lau
Null:
Colby
LoS and Nyght
Sapph
Hydra and Taulover
Cozmik, ENE, TGN
Scum Leans:
Anubhav
My reads lists are not ordered from most to least, this is just stream of consciousness from my reread just now.
Townleans---
Doc - feels exactly like last game.
Nyght - feels less innocent than last game. This is strangely a good thing.
Lau - aggressively town.
LoS - solvey, pushy.
Nulls---
BSR - hmm.... probably my most towny null...
Sapph
Gerrick - feels like last game. Flipped town last game... but I'm not reading them either way yet.
Eastern New England
Hydra
taulover- comes in with a meta game argument and dips again.
Scum lean---
where do I stand?
Colberius X - Lau made a good point: lotsa posts, not a lot that was memorable. Slight scum lean for this fact alone.
Anubhav Ghosh - something pinged me yesterday, but I'm not finding it on the reread. Asks for a seer read... this is always a weird move to me, idk how to interpret.
I already voted.I know, I was just making clear that we (and 6 others) have to vote this phase or we're modkilled. No withdrawing your vote, no switching to vote no lynch, it's gotta be a vote on someone or you're modkilled.
Speaking of keeping track of votes:
Vote Tracker:Gerrick: LoS
Nyght: LoS
Lau: Anubhav
Gerrick: Anubhav
Doc: ENE
Vote Count:
LoS - Nyght (1)
Anubhav - Lau, Gerrick (2)
ENE - Doc (1)
Vote Reminders For Those Who Must Vote Or Risk Modkill
@Anubhav Ghosh @BraveSirRobin @cozmikrae @Eastern New England @Hydra @taulover
My reads lists are not ordered from most to least, this is just stream of consciousness from my reread just now.
Townleans---
Doc - feels exactly like last game.
Nyght - feels less innocent than last game. This is strangely a good thing.
Lau - aggressively town.
LoS - solvey, pushy.
Nulls---
BSR - hmm.... probably my most towny null...
Sapph
Gerrick - feels like last game. Flipped town last game... but I'm not reading them either way yet.
Eastern New England
Hydra
taulover- comes in with a meta game argument and dips again.
Scum lean---
where do I stand?
Colberius X - Lau made a good point: lotsa posts, not a lot that was memorable. Slight scum lean for this fact alone.
Anubhav Ghosh - something pinged me yesterday, but I'm not finding it on the reread. Asks for a seer read... this is always a weird move to me, idk how to interpret.
TGN I forgot about you tbh. But thinking back slight town lean/null.I already voted.I know, I was just making clear that we (and 6 others) have to vote this phase or we're modkilled. No withdrawing your vote, no switching to vote no lynch, it's gotta be a vote on someone or you're modkilled.
Speaking of keeping track of votes:
Vote Tracker:Gerrick: LoS
Nyght: LoS
Lau: Anubhav
Gerrick: Anubhav
Doc: ENE
Vote Count:
LoS - Nyght (1)
Anubhav - Lau, Gerrick (2)
ENE - Doc (1)
Vote Reminders For Those Who Must Vote Or Risk Modkill
@Anubhav Ghosh @BraveSirRobin @cozmikrae @Eastern New England @Hydra @taulover
Did I misunderstand the rule then? I thought since no lynch was a vote it didn't count against you. @Michi can you clarify?
Yeah, on that point:Did @Michi ever confirm whether or not there are linked defenders? I did a quick search through the Print Page and couldn't find anything.
DEFENDERS, Y'ALL CAN PROTECT EACH OTHER, SO DON'T BE DUMB ENOUGH NOT TO CLEAR EACH OTHER IN YOUR READS LISTS. EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON IS EXPENDABLE. WE CAN'T LOSE THIS GAME IF THE TWO OF YOU KEEP DEFENDING EACH OTHER AND FIGURE OUT WHO SCUM IS SINCE YOU WILL HAVE A DAMN STRONG POE.
People consider me a good player AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Well, I'll at least try not to disappoint you.
So here's the thing. We don't THINK you're a good player. We know you are. Which is why this kinda post comes off hella sus at the moment. And I think that's why I've got you on my scumreads at the moment.
I say this with a great deal of hesitancy but I will also Vote Legacy of Smiles.I get a feeling that it's more a big fish in a big pond moved into a much smaller pond and the feelings of inadequacy carry over from the big pond. It seems like a natural reaction to me, not really anything suspicious.
I say hesitant because, while his whole, "shucks I'm not that good" statement earlier rang hella suspicious to me and I feel like his playstyle this game is just different enough from last time to be a mask, I know if he flips town I'm shooting myself in the foot because Doc is gonna be on my ass as he mentioned earlier if one of us is town the other is likely a wolf. That being said there's been a lot of deflection without any real direction coming from him.
And I don't want to miss out on scum and the tricks they are brewing , in the much silent zone of this party .Interesting note here is I think this is even more pronounced now because of how unbalanced the difference is between the active and inactive players. In a more "professional" Mafia game like the ones in Mafia Universe you only get very active people, in less active games like the ones in Wintreath as a several years ago everyone is at a similar lower activity level where slipping by as a wolf is viable but also interesting as a strategy (e.g. Hydra's Wendigo play that Laurentus somehow still thinks is one of the best wolf plays ever), but in this game it's just horrible all-around - you have super-active people dominating the conversation while overwhelming the people who just came looking for a chill game.
The deaf and dumb lacks enemies and exposure . I wouldn't be sad if I lose to scum who stayed low completely , because its unfair advantage they have in their palms.
Anub is now a scumlean: largely this is informed by just how similar I feel his play is right now to LoS' last game, which was a staggering amount of activity meant to corral people down a particular avenue to a mislynch like a powerwolf in sheepdog's clothing. While there doesn't seem to be a certain specific target being chased, the emphasis on inactive people, when, like, hell, maybe at least some - e.g. Tau's expressed this will likely be 'his last game of WW' because of the activity spike - are just put off. We've had this problem happen before. And the 'Doc sus cause he hasn't posted yet, 2 hours after the phase started' thing is particularly grating now that I'm considering this angle, frankly.Unlike Doc, I personally don't see it tying to anyone specific, but I also haven't been thinking about the game as much as he presumably has. In particular, I would question any attempt to separate natural and understandable bias against inactive players (whether they're more inactive overall or just inactive during a particular bout of activity) from Humans actively pushing against them. I think that would be a very hard distinction to make; the people here used to more active games are going to be instinctively more suspicious of the less active, I think.
Wait yeah like, I actually didn't vote yesterday so I'm actually risking an inactivity lynch by not voting yet but quite a few of the people that Doc mentioned went for a No Lynch, which shouldn't lead to an inactivity lynchVote Reminders For Those Who Must Vote Or Risk Modkill
@Anubhav Ghosh @BraveSirRobin @cozmikrae @Eastern New England @Hydra @taulover
Did I misunderstand the rule then? I thought since no lynch was a vote it didn't count against you. @Michi can you clarify?
Did I misunderstand the rule then? I thought since no lynch was a vote it didn't count against you. @Michi can you clarify?
Wait yeah like, I actually didn't vote yesterday so I'm actually risking an inactivity lynch by not voting yet but quite a few of the people that Doc mentioned went for a No Lynch, which shouldn't lead to an inactivity lynch
6. If you do not vote for 2 consecutive Play Time phases, you'll be automatically removed from the party. Choosing to Vote: No Lynch does not count against vote activity. (Emphasis mine)I have interpreted this to mean that if you vote: no lynch, it's treated as if you did not vote at all.
My reads lists are not ordered from most to least, this is just stream of consciousness from my reread just now.
Townleans---
Doc - feels exactly like last game.
Nyght - feels less innocent than last game. This is strangely a good thing.
Lau - aggressively town.
LoS - solvey, pushy.
Nulls---
BSR - hmm.... probably my most towny null...
Sapph
Gerrick - feels like last game. Flipped town last game... but I'm not reading them either way yet.
Eastern New England
Hydra
taulover- comes in with a meta game argument and dips again.
Scum lean---
where do I stand?
Colberius X - Lau made a good point: lotsa posts, not a lot that was memorable. Slight scum lean for this fact alone.
Anubhav Ghosh - something pinged me yesterday, but I'm not finding it on the reread. Asks for a seer read... this is always a weird move to me, idk how to interpret.
TGN I forgot about you tbh. But thinking back slight town lean/null.I already voted.I know, I was just making clear that we (and 6 others) have to vote this phase or we're modkilled. No withdrawing your vote, no switching to vote no lynch, it's gotta be a vote on someone or you're modkilled.
Speaking of keeping track of votes:
Vote Tracker:Gerrick: LoS
Nyght: LoS
Lau: Anubhav
Gerrick: Anubhav
Doc: ENE
Vote Count:
LoS - Nyght (1)
Anubhav - Lau, Gerrick (2)
ENE - Doc (1)
Vote Reminders For Those Who Must Vote Or Risk Modkill
@Anubhav Ghosh @BraveSirRobin @cozmikrae @Eastern New England @Hydra @taulover
Did I misunderstand the rule then? I thought since no lynch was a vote it didn't count against you. @Michi can you clarify?
Did you vote no-lynch ? If so you are not getting modkilled , maybe . The same controversy arose in last game over me unvoting and ending the day without a vote , but it was not a modlynch issue
It's that it doesn't count against though, not doesn't count toward, so I interpreted that as meaning that No Lynch doesn't count as a strike against the requirements for activity-based lynch. But now that you mention it I definitely see how it could be read the opposite way. Would definitely appreciate a @Michi clarification on this.Did I misunderstand the rule then? I thought since no lynch was a vote it didn't count against you. @Michi can you clarify?Wait yeah like, I actually didn't vote yesterday so I'm actually risking an inactivity lynch by not voting yet but quite a few of the people that Doc mentioned went for a No Lynch, which shouldn't lead to an inactivity lynch6. If you do not vote for 2 consecutive Play Time phases, you'll be automatically removed from the party. Choosing to Vote: No Lynch does not count against vote activity. (Emphasis mine)I have interpreted this to mean that if you vote: no lynch, it's treated as if you did not vote at all.
This was a huge element of why I said we can only vote no lynch every other day, which was kind of a big part of my analysis of how our numbers will hold up. If y'all'd genuinely thought that we could no lynch every day, we'd have had much more time available and the Seer solving the game would be a given.
Frankly, tau gets a pass from me because he's made two posts and so presumably hasn't been picking over the game with a fine-tooth comb like we have, but I'd definitely have expected Anubhav to catch that and am honestly kind of weirded out that he didn't.
Did I misunderstand the rule then? I thought since no lynch was a vote it didn't count against you. @Michi can you clarify?Wait yeah like, I actually didn't vote yesterday so I'm actually risking an inactivity lynch by not voting yet but quite a few of the people that Doc mentioned went for a No Lynch, which shouldn't lead to an inactivity lynch6. If you do not vote for 2 consecutive Play Time phases, you'll be automatically removed from the party. Choosing to Vote: No Lynch does not count against vote activity. (Emphasis mine)I have interpreted this to mean that if you vote: no lynch, it's treated as if you did not vote at all.
This was a huge element of why I said we can only vote no lynch every other day, which was kind of a big part of my analysis of how our numbers will hold up. If y'all'd genuinely thought that we could no lynch every day, we'd have had much more time available and the Seer solving the game would be a given.
Frankly, tau gets a pass from me because he's made two posts and so presumably hasn't been picking over the game with a fine-tooth comb like we have, but I'd definitely have expected Anubhav to catch that and am honestly kind of weirded out that he didn't.
It's that it doesn't count against though, not doesn't count toward, so I interpreted that as meaning that No Lynch doesn't count as a strike against the requirements for activity-based lynch. But now that you mention it I definitely see how it could be read the opposite way. Would definitely appreciate a @Michi clarification on this.Did I misunderstand the rule then? I thought since no lynch was a vote it didn't count against you. @Michi can you clarify?Wait yeah like, I actually didn't vote yesterday so I'm actually risking an inactivity lynch by not voting yet but quite a few of the people that Doc mentioned went for a No Lynch, which shouldn't lead to an inactivity lynch6. If you do not vote for 2 consecutive Play Time phases, you'll be automatically removed from the party. Choosing to Vote: No Lynch does not count against vote activity. (Emphasis mine)I have interpreted this to mean that if you vote: no lynch, it's treated as if you did not vote at all.
This was a huge element of why I said we can only vote no lynch every other day, which was kind of a big part of my analysis of how our numbers will hold up. If y'all'd genuinely thought that we could no lynch every day, we'd have had much more time available and the Seer solving the game would be a given.
Frankly, tau gets a pass from me because he's made two posts and so presumably hasn't been picking over the game with a fine-tooth comb like we have, but I'd definitely have expected Anubhav to catch that and am honestly kind of weirded out that he didn't.
@Laurentus @Doc @Gerrick
I need to make a defense post to save myself , so here it goes:
1. I was never a part of D1 activity , and anyone here would agree , its the most absurd day , and everything carries a double meaning on D1.
2. My push on Lau was pretty much out of fear, that he might overpower town , and I hit him because I felt his attack on Gerrick was out of the ordinary , since Gerrick didn't do anything suspicious .
3. Vro said how influential Lau was as a scum , and I read a few things on discord which evidently suggested vote Lau out first (those were joke statements maybe , but had some basis after all)
4. Poking the inactive people by voting them is a viable option , but I didn't do that , fearing that switching votes wasn't available , however it seems that vote switch is allowed now , and so I feel I can vote a person to draw his attention when needed. And certainly , a game consisting 14 players , and finding 7 active , its really hard going this way.
5. I pushed Lau hard just because I knew I was town . Why stay on the tail of an experienced player who has good amount of trust from the other players , as a scum . There were easier targets , and given that I am truly inexperienced , it was certainly audacious to move for Lau as a scum.
6. LoS tried to prove me wrong in the last game , Mell called it trolling . Lau seemed to do the same thing , much more direct , as he included my inexperience and lack of ability to articulate my thoughts , and I did learn a thing staying in the deadchat , about these statements of underestimating to be the one that should make me push harder .
7. Had I been a scum, I wouldn't have had rooted for a Seer check , with so many already suspicious of me . I asked for seer check again when the wagon on me is the largest (today) , and I am still asking for a seer check now . Seer would have been an extra vote that I wanted to concede, had I been scum.
8. I did mention that I was tired of chasing Lau all the way , because I am not ready to take the responsibility of mislynching an experienced townie , and called out for the almost silent guys.
9. Doc told that I was imitating LoS's style of posting in large amounts , but most of it was cross questioning and clearing people , and that's not something I have done . The quantity might be around the same amount , but not the quality.
I think a lot of people are severely overestimating how good I actually am based off of a single game but I'll take the praise.
I'm strongly requesting that the seer checks me tonight because I think it will be borderline impossible to fully convince people I am town outside of being cleared or my death.
@Laurentus @Doc @Gerrick
I need to make a defense post to save myself , so here it goes:
1. I was never a part of D1 activity , and anyone here would agree , its the most absurd day , and everything carries a double meaning on D1.
2. My push on Lau was pretty much out of fear, that he might overpower town , and I hit him because I felt his attack on Gerrick was out of the ordinary , since Gerrick didn't do anything suspicious .
3. Vro said how influential Lau was as a scum , and I read a few things on discord which evidently suggested vote Lau out first (those were joke statements maybe , but had some basis after all)
4. Poking the inactive people by voting them is a viable option , but I didn't do that , fearing that switching votes wasn't available , however it seems that vote switch is allowed now , and so I feel I can vote a person to draw his attention when needed. And certainly , a game consisting 14 players , and finding 7 active , its really hard going this way.
5. I pushed Lau hard just because I knew I was town . Why stay on the tail of an experienced player who has good amount of trust from the other players , as a scum . There were easier targets , and given that I am truly inexperienced , it was certainly audacious to move for Lau as a scum.
6. LoS tried to prove me wrong in the last game , Mell called it trolling . Lau seemed to do the same thing , much more direct , as he included my inexperience and lack of ability to articulate my thoughts , and I did learn a thing staying in the deadchat , about these statements of underestimating to be the one that should make me push harder .
7. Had I been a scum, I wouldn't have had rooted for a Seer check , with so many already suspicious of me . I asked for seer check again when the wagon on me is the largest (today) , and I am still asking for a seer check now . Seer would have been an extra vote that I wanted to concede, had I been scum.
8. I did mention that I was tired of chasing Lau all the way , because I am not ready to take the responsibility of mislynching an experienced townie , and called out for the almost silent guys.
9. Doc told that I was imitating LoS's style of posting in large amounts , but most of it was cross questioning and clearing people , and that's not something I have done . The quantity might be around the same amount , but not the quality.
People asking to be scannedI think a lot of people are severely overestimating how good I actually am based off of a single game but I'll take the praise.
I'm strongly requesting that the seer checks me tonight because I think it will be borderline impossible to fully convince people I am town outside of being cleared or my death.@Laurentus @Doc @Gerrick
I need to make a defense post to save myself , so here it goes:
1. I was never a part of D1 activity , and anyone here would agree , its the most absurd day , and everything carries a double meaning on D1.
2. My push on Lau was pretty much out of fear, that he might overpower town , and I hit him because I felt his attack on Gerrick was out of the ordinary , since Gerrick didn't do anything suspicious .
3. Vro said how influential Lau was as a scum , and I read a few things on discord which evidently suggested vote Lau out first (those were joke statements maybe , but had some basis after all)
4. Poking the inactive people by voting them is a viable option , but I didn't do that , fearing that switching votes wasn't available , however it seems that vote switch is allowed now , and so I feel I can vote a person to draw his attention when needed. And certainly , a game consisting 14 players , and finding 7 active , its really hard going this way.
5. I pushed Lau hard just because I knew I was town . Why stay on the tail of an experienced player who has good amount of trust from the other players , as a scum . There were easier targets , and given that I am truly inexperienced , it was certainly audacious to move for Lau as a scum.
6. LoS tried to prove me wrong in the last game , Mell called it trolling . Lau seemed to do the same thing , much more direct , as he included my inexperience and lack of ability to articulate my thoughts , and I did learn a thing staying in the deadchat , about these statements of underestimating to be the one that should make me push harder .
7. Had I been a scum, I wouldn't have had rooted for a Seer check , with so many already suspicious of me . I asked for seer check again when the wagon on me is the largest (today) , and I am still asking for a seer check now . Seer would have been an extra vote that I wanted to concede, had I been scum.
8. I did mention that I was tired of chasing Lau all the way , because I am not ready to take the responsibility of mislynching an experienced townie , and called out for the almost silent guys.
9. Doc told that I was imitating LoS's style of posting in large amounts , but most of it was cross questioning and clearing people , and that's not something I have done . The quantity might be around the same amount , but not the quality.
I've highlighted two instances where people have asked to be scanned. I understand that from a Town perspective, if you're really not gaining traction, it's tempting to ask to be scanned, but also understand one thing: the absolutely most important person for the Seer to scan is the defender pair, so consider carefully whether you are truly worth a scan. If you're scanned and are Town, that's one person who joins the Seer army. If the defenders are scanned, that's two, and then the Seer has a much better chance of surviving.
That said, I am struggling to see a scum motive for asking to be scanned.
It moves you a bit higher in my estimation, but I am not going to clear you based on one thing. If you're Town, start acting like it.
I think I need to hear your thought process for tunneling me again. I don't recall anyone saying I should be the D1 lynch on Discord, for example.
Hmm. Can I get some outside perspective here? Am I really that scary that it would inspire someone to tunnel me this much?Apparently I am so I can buy that.
Okay so instead of a full reads list (which I'll post closer to EoD) I'll just post my PoE (process of elimination, I.e group of people I think are most likely wolves).
Colberius X
Anubhav Ghosh
Eastern New England
Hydra
Gerrick
taulover
The list is roughly ordered with bottom being wolfiest but not concrete yet. Wihin these six people are where I will almost always vote today. Everyone else is a townread to some various degree. Will look through these more tomorrow. If there's a particular TR you want to hear about please ask me.
With the exception of Nyght, does anybody who scumreads me have a reason for scumreading me besides being worried and/or not knowing how to read me? I feel like I should be null to most people based on the explanations they're giving.
Oh yeah no, if that's all it was, I'll go ahead and switch votes. I think I'm slightly more confident in Anubhav than Legacy, but Laurentus' hesitation had given me pause (hence his null-read in my list).Wait, you actually SR me?
Switch Vote: Anubhav Ghosh
I assumed it was semi-joking or a reactions test.
Why are you so obsessed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Yt0xJKDY8) with not wanting to be scum-read? I don't understand it, people have explicitly stated that they won't go for you today and you're still trying to be null- or town-read by everyone.Legacy, I'm scum-reading you because you seem to be the most scummy null I have, and I felt I needed a scum read. I'm not convinced you're scum, but I don't have a lot to go on especially since a quarter of the players are inactive and I'm town-reading a lot of players.Would you be able to explain to me what makes me scummier than Hydra/taulover/ENE please?
Perhaps I would be more active if this game wasn't so hard to follow. I wasn't expecting this when signing up and reading this:What is RVS vote?ISOing you to see if I was willing to actually vote for you instead of just reading you (esp. considering you're currently the biggest wagon, which I don't want to hop aboard unless I'm sure) I noticed you never got an answer to this question; RVS is 'Random Voting Stage', which is another term for a D1 vote made on basically no information whatsoever.
Now that that's been said, in the end I decided that while I'm still sus vis-a-vis Anubhav, I'd rather we had another wagon both for the reasons I outline above (I don't want to hop aboard the majority wagon unless I'm Sure) and for wagonomics reasons, since I'm obligated to vote today (as are Anubhav, BSR, Cozmik, ENE, Hydra, Nyght, and Tau) rather than no-lynching because of Rule 6.
Moreover, I'd prefer secondary wagon not be LoS, since even though I'm nullreading him, I acknowledge that that may well be driven by residual paranoia from last game rather than anything else, and so if we let him get lynched I think we're likely to be depriving town of a strong analytical mind.
Therefore on balance, I'm going to
Vote: ENE,
because thus far he has made exactly three posts, all of which are a single line and which give us no information to work off of. He doesn't have the least posts, but I think he has the least substance in his posts, and so among my nullreads he's the one I'm most comfortable offering up as a wagon.
I figured I'd run a smaller game for those of you who want something a bit more calm but still fun.
@Eastern New England, Doc has indicated a desire to make you a counterwagon for today. I support this. What say you?I don't support this.
That is to be expected, but I need more than that, lol. How are you currently reading the game?Hectic. As for people:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!Borderline trolling, yeah.
Are you actually trolling right now?
Like, did you just throw the two biggest bastards in the scum team and call it a day?I have some vague (and probably wrong) reasons, but other than that pretty much.
People are using last game as an excuse to make bad / lazy reads on me and it's concerning, especially when I'm one of or the only scumread of people and the only reasons they give are "I'm scared of him from last game". Huge potential for scum to slip through the net by copying this.Legacy of SmilesWith the exception of Nyght, does anybody who scumreads me have a reason for scumreading me besides being worried and/or not knowing how to read me? I feel like I should be null to most people based on the explanations they're giving.Oh yeah no, if that's all it was, I'll go ahead and switch votes. I think I'm slightly more confident in Anubhav than Legacy, but Laurentus' hesitation had given me pause (hence his null-read in my list).Wait, you actually SR me?
Switch Vote: Anubhav Ghosh
I assumed it was semi-joking or a reactions test.Why are you so obsessed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Yt0xJKDY8) with not wanting to be scum-read? I don't understand it, people have explicitly stated that they won't go for you today and you're still trying to be null- or town-read by everyone.Legacy, I'm scum-reading you because you seem to be the most scummy null I have, and I felt I needed a scum read. I'm not convinced you're scum, but I don't have a lot to go on especially since a quarter of the players are inactive and I'm town-reading a lot of players.Would you be able to explain to me what makes me scummier than Hydra/taulover/ENE please?DocPerhaps I would be more active if this game wasn't so hard to follow. I wasn't expecting this when signing up and reading this:What is RVS vote?ISOing you to see if I was willing to actually vote for you instead of just reading you (esp. considering you're currently the biggest wagon, which I don't want to hop aboard unless I'm sure) I noticed you never got an answer to this question; RVS is 'Random Voting Stage', which is another term for a D1 vote made on basically no information whatsoever.
Now that that's been said, in the end I decided that while I'm still sus vis-a-vis Anubhav, I'd rather we had another wagon both for the reasons I outline above (I don't want to hop aboard the majority wagon unless I'm Sure) and for wagonomics reasons, since I'm obligated to vote today (as are Anubhav, BSR, Cozmik, ENE, Hydra, Nyght, and Tau) rather than no-lynching because of Rule 6.
Moreover, I'd prefer secondary wagon not be LoS, since even though I'm nullreading him, I acknowledge that that may well be driven by residual paranoia from last game rather than anything else, and so if we let him get lynched I think we're likely to be depriving town of a strong analytical mind.
Therefore on balance, I'm going to
Vote: ENE,
because thus far he has made exactly three posts, all of which are a single line and which give us no information to work off of. He doesn't have the least posts, but I think he has the least substance in his posts, and so among my nullreads he's the one I'm most comfortable offering up as a wagon.Quote from: MichiI figured I'd run a smaller game for those of you who want something a bit more calm but still fun.@Eastern New England, Doc has indicated a desire to make you a counterwagon for today. I support this. What say you?I don't support this.
I actually think ENE is scum.
For people who aren't aware (I believe you are but for the sake of others) I have a lot of meta on ENE.I actually think ENE is scum.
Interesting, how so?
Hmm. Can I get some outside perspective here? Am I really that scary that it would inspire someone to tunnel me this much?
That is to be expected, but I need more than that, lol. How are you currently reading the game?Hectic. As for people:I haven't really had the time to read people, I can probably give you more in a few hours.A couple of readsTown Lean:
- Empty
Null:
- Everyone else
Scum Lean:
- Laurentus
- LoS
Like, did you just throw the two biggest bastards in the scum team and call it a day?I have some vague (and probably wrong) reasons, but other than that pretty much.
That is to be expected, but I need more than that, lol. How are you currently reading the game?Hectic. As for people:I haven't really had the time to read people, I can probably give you more in a few hours.A couple of readsTown Lean:
- Empty
Null:
- Everyone else
Scum Lean:
- Laurentus
- LoS
Ok , I see . I really needed to see what you got , thanks that you did . The lack of info in your post made me go against you and vote you , its time to reconsider.
Unvote
Also , in EoD today or tomorrow ? @Michi , @Laurentus
I am incredibly confused why you're unvoting in the first place, Anu. You are the other main wagon.Sadly, it's only Discord games we've played together (of which we have played around 20). ENE can be a mixed bag for how much effort he is willing/able to put into a town game but I think that's more based on time commitment.
And to @Legacy of Smiles: I don't suppose you have any links to games where ENE had this MO for a scum game? Because now that you mention it, I did see him in action as a Townie in a recent game in XKI, and he definitely tried harder. He also had a scum game here where he pretty much just lurked, and then the last game here he was also lurky, but in that one, he was Town.
For Hydra and Tau, both are in university and very busy, so I will not be voting for either unless a cop check gets done on them and finds them to be scum. I will actively fight either's lynch, in fact.I would prefer to chop a player who has been more actively scummy than either / more evidence to go off and chopping busy players isn't nice but I would definitely consider eliminating one of them before anybody in the upper half of my list.
I am incredibly confused why you're unvoting in the first place, Anu. You are the other main wagon.
And to @Legacy of Smiles: I don't suppose you have any links to games where ENE had this MO for a scum game? Because now that you mention it, I did see him in action as a Townie in a recent game in XKI, and he definitely tried harder. He also had a scum game here where he pretty much just lurked, and then the last game here he was also lurky, but in that one, he was Town.
By the way, I think I missed your read on Cozmik. Why are you not lynching there today?Pretty much just tone and the fact that I mindmeld with a lot of what she's saying right now, particularly her reads. I think she's the sort of town who comes off as, for lack of a better word, extremely pure and I know faking that as scum is very hard... especially if you're not aware of it yourself and don't think it will make people town read you more, no reason to bother trying. Probably the best explanation I can give for her, mostly gut but there are people I would much rather consider chopping.
Well, let me link you to his scum game. I wonder if you can spot any parallels.That's definitely an interesting read, thanks.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0
So if you chose between Anu and ENE, who's your pick, LoS?ENE. I think Anu's most recent post is towny.
@Eastern New EnglandErm I wouldn't suggest answering 4 though.
1.Why do you think Lau and LoS to be scum , please state the reasons however vague it is ?
2. Lau and LoS , how does their interaction seem to you ?
3. Will you vote me , in case the wagon on you becomes the largest , to save yourself , or will you chase Lau/LoS , providing some material for thought for the next day phase ?
4. How much will the town regret if the town loses you ?
5. Will the scum regret losing you ?
Also, Anu, the answer to 4 and 5 will be the same whether the person is Town or Scum:
4. Of course! I'm Town
5. Of course not, they're just happy a Townie is getting lynched!
Like, did you just throw the two biggest bastards in the scum team and call it a day?I have some vague (and probably wrong) reasons, but other than that pretty much.
If you're town , then you should site the reasons , as of the feeling you have that they might be wrong , just shake it off . The fact that I unvoted doesn't necessarily mean that I can't vote against you again .
@Eastern New England
1.Why do you think Lau and LoS to be scum , please state the reasons however vague it is ?
2. Lau and LoS , how does their interaction seem to you ?
3. Will you vote me , in case the wagon on you becomes the largest , to save yourself , or will you chase Lau/LoS , providing some material for thought for the next day phase ?
4. How much will the town regret if the town loses you ?
5. Will the scum regret losing you ?
For people who aren't aware (I believe you are but for the sake of others) I have a lot of meta on ENE.I actually think ENE is scum.
Interesting, how so?
When he's active, he's definitely more of a tryhard town (much more than you'd expect honestly). As scum he's typically very inactive and doesn't solve anywhere near as much (and he also has a habit of trying to act towny only when pressured). The reads post was probably at least semi-serious and I don't see how a towny comes to those conclusions (particularly a person who self admittedly can't read me and usually has me as null / town lean when I'm town and has only ever scumread me before when he was a wolf himself).
I think he's scum trying to get a low-effort townread by posting something brazenly wolfy (particularly because of my habit to TR this sort of behaviour). The reads post seems pretty out of character for him but especially him as town.
He was already on my radar before this but he was mostly null.
Would go into more detail but my fingers are cold.
I'll read over the thread before the end of the phase and give some thoughts, I don't really have that much yet.Well, let me link you to his scum game. I wonder if you can spot any parallels.That's definitely an interesting read, thanks.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0
ENE, any chance that you could post a few reads with some detailed explanations for me please?
Also, Anu, the answer to 4 and 5 will be the same whether the person is Town or Scum:
4. Of course! I'm Town
5. Of course not, they're just happy a Townie is getting lynched!
I think LoS is suggesting that could be read as a soft claim depending on how they answer that question. Which would lead to a mod kill.
@Eastern New EnglandThey seem to think alike, I guess? I don't know.
Just one question , I want you to answer. What do you make out of the Lau-LoS interactions ?
I actually think ENE is scum.do you think that because there can be only one turtle?
I actually think ENE is scum.do you think that because there can be only one turtle?
but you do make a good point, in your other posts.
Vote: Make ENE Leave
I thought the opposite, honestly, but not in a bad way. I think we have different ways of approaching the game, it's interesting.@Eastern New EnglandThey seem to think alike, I guess? I don't know.
Just one question , I want you to answer. What do you make out of the Lau-LoS interactions ?
Where did I accuse him of strawmanning, by the way?Here is one, amongst similar posts putting severe doubt on his judgement skills and questioning the alleged "inconsistency" in his reasoning abilities between the previous game and this
I don't get what's happening here, Anu. Your reasoning was razor sharp last game. Now you're grasping at straws and, to be blunt, pushing false narratives.
And explain where my reasoning doesn't hold up?When Anub asked you "Also I am trying to figure out what actually is making you hesitant to lynch me", you replied "Town doesn't answer this question." For which I have explained in the previous day phase that throwing accusations without actually voting is usually a trigger for you to question the motive as Anub did towards you, but you simply dismissed him. After Gerrick's clarification they are not a defender pair, you then proceeded to tunnel him (which is justified when I look at your POV) only to then switch it to ENE based solely on Legacy's remarks on ENE's playstyle, which you class as a "good case" like what?
So my case on Anu wasn't as unreasonable as you just made it sound, good to know, that.
"Grasping at straws" is not a straw man, it indicates a severe reach that the available evidence doesn't justify, such as, oh I don't know, the whole tunnel based on my vote for Gerrick. He also somehow went from "this person looks the most scummy" to somehow also saying I'm probably town, but then also won't let go of his tunnel on me. A strawman, for reference, is when, instead of debating against a person's actual position, you create a caricature of the person's position and attack that.
And as for the case on ENE, LoS has a lot more meta on ENE, so I'm willing to trust it, especially since it holds water based on my own experience with ENE here and in XKI, at least for the portion about ENE occasionally trying harder as Town.
I have a theory , the problem is its really tough to put it down in the thread . For some reason I believe the seer might have had checked Lau out , and it was a gimmicky move from Lau in which he asked that it was justified to get himself checked first . The concept about him being the best townie if he is one would tamper with our minds and even if seer found him as a scum , we would be hesitant to hit Lau , and by the team we go anywhere , Lau can certainly make us go a total 180. The seer can't do a soft either , so Lau will go scot free if he is scumLmao, is this a soft for you/Sapph as the Seer and a person who got scanned?
So my case on Anu wasn't as unreasonable as you just made it sound, good to know, that.
"Grasping at straws" is not a straw man, it indicates a severe reach that the available evidence doesn't justify, such as, oh I don't know, the whole tunnel based on my vote for Gerrick. He also somehow went from "this person looks the most scummy" to somehow also saying I'm probably town, but then also won't let go of his tunnel on me. A strawman, for reference, is when, instead of debating against a person's actual position, you create a caricature of the person's position and attack that.
And as for the case on ENE, LoS has a lot more meta on ENE, so I'm willing to trust it, especially since it holds water based on my own experience with ENE here and in XKI, at least for the portion about ENE occasionally trying harder as Town.
The scummy to town and vice versa stuff , that is quite normal , being scummy on D1 is a method to bring people out in the open , which is why I considered you town for being scummy .
even if seer found him as a scum , we would be hesitant to hit Lau , and by the team we go anywhere , Lau can certainly make us go a total 180. The seer can't do a soft either , so Lau will go scot free if he is scumThat’s quite wild, again the Seer can just put Lau as the only person in scum lean and proceed to make a case. Seer is allowed to soft indirectly via read list.
I'm confused about what you're trying to achieve here, Sapph. If I was incorrectly tunneling Anu, and you're personally townreading him, I have to wonder why you're not relieved I'm moving off Anu. Also, if I was tunneling before, then what purpose does it serve to get me to focus on Anu again now?First, my entire read list is fluid. Also my issue isn’t with you voting for Anub, it’s how you tunnelled him and then switched it to ENE via Legacy’s sole testimony, and I believe you just explained but I haven’t thoroughly read through it and shan’t comment
So my case on Anu wasn't as unreasonable as you just made it sound, good to know, that.
"Grasping at straws" is not a straw man, it indicates a severe reach that the available evidence doesn't justify, such as, oh I don't know, the whole tunnel based on my vote for Gerrick. He also somehow went from "this person looks the most scummy" to somehow also saying I'm probably town, but then also won't let go of his tunnel on me. A strawman, for reference, is when, instead of debating against a person's actual position, you create a caricature of the person's position and attack that.
And as for the case on ENE, LoS has a lot more meta on ENE, so I'm willing to trust it, especially since it holds water based on my own experience with ENE here and in XKI, at least for the portion about ENE occasionally trying harder as Town.
The scummy to town and vice versa stuff , that is quite normal , being scummy on D1 is a method to bring people out in the open , which is why I considered you town for being scummy .
So your argument boils down to Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf?
I have a theory , the problem is its really tough to put it down in the thread . For some reason I believe the seer might have had checked Lau out , and it was a gimmicky move from Lau in which he asked that it was justified to get himself checked first . The concept about him being the best townie if he is one would tamper with our minds and even if seer found him as a scum , we would be hesitant to hit Lau , and by the team we go anywhere , Lau can certainly make us go a total 180. The seer can't do a soft either , so Lau will go scot free if he is scumLmao, is this a soft for you/Sapph as the Seer and a person who got scanned?
Lmao, is this a soft for you/Sapph as the Seer and a person who got scanned?I can confirm I am neither the Seer nor am I scanned - in case his post is on the way to being interpreted as rule breach
Lmao, is this a soft for you/Sapph as the Seer and a person who got scanned?I can confirm I am neither the Seer nor am I scanned - in case his post is on the way to being interpreted as rule breach
Well, next Seer scan is Def going to be Sapph, it seems.
Scum LeanYeah, in comparison to my previous games, I can definitely see why my lack of helpfulness is suspicious. The activity level in this game is just overwhelming, and I don't know where to start to be in any way helpful. A week ago, I didn't even know that "scumhunting" was a term, and now I can barely keep up with the quantity of posts, much less the content.
Colberius X (As mentioned by Lau if I recall correctly, nothing memorable as of yet. While this could be due to his first game since returning back, there is a difference in the level of helpfulness in scumhunting. To note this isn't a strong scum read, because I myself have been accused of not helping out much last game due to a decision to adopt a more passive playstyle and ended up being Seer)
Therefore,
Vote: Colberius X
All hail the seer!With all due respect, posts like this are ones that really just clog up the topic and make it unnecessarily hard to follow, without adding anything.
Well, next Seer scan is Def going to be Sapph, it seems.If I'm not getting scanned then I'd much prefer it to be somebody like Hydra (unless they post more) if you're not wanting them to be voted. Sapphiron, if town, can probably post himself into being widely townread given time.
Scum LeanYeah, in comparison to my previous games, I can definitely see why my lack of helpfulness is suspicious. The activity level in this game is just overwhelming, and I don't know where to start to be in any way helpful. A week ago, I didn't even know that "scumhunting" was a term, and now I can barely keep up with the quantity of posts, much less the content.
Colberius X (As mentioned by Lau if I recall correctly, nothing memorable as of yet. While this could be due to his first game since returning back, there is a difference in the level of helpfulness in scumhunting. To note this isn't a strong scum read, because I myself have been accused of not helping out much last game due to a decision to adopt a more passive playstyle and ended up being Seer)
Therefore,
Vote: Colberius X
As such, for now I will continue voting for inactives. There is high likelihood of this vote changing before EoD, but for now: Vote: Make @Hydra leave.All hail the seer!With all due respect, posts like this are ones that really just clog up the topic and make it unnecessarily hard to follow, without adding anything.
ENE, why are you liking the post that disagrees with your statement that LoS and I think alike?I understood the logic behind the post and liked it.
Atm I see two things:
1. Either Lau is scum , and is pinning me down and hoping to subdue me , and ngl he has kept me busy the whole time :D .
2. Sapph sees ENE and me being against Lau , and no doubt a town Lau is danger for scum team . He can use our attacks and develop a strong case , his experience definitely leaving room for that .
It has to be one of these cases , but I don't know for which I should go :'(
If I'm not getting scanned then I'd much prefer it to be somebody like Hydra (unless they post more) if you're not wanting them to be voted. Sapphiron, if town, can probably post himself into being widely townread given time.I really think players who will be active adversaries or active allies to the Seer are far more valuable scan options. And Sapphiron, if scum, can probably still post himself into being widely townread given time.
Atm I see two things:
1. Either Lau is scum , and is pinning me down and hoping to subdue me , and ngl he has kept me busy the whole time :D .
2. Sapph sees ENE and me being against Lau , and no doubt a town Lau is danger for scum team . He can use our attacks and develop a strong case , his experience definitely leaving room for that .
It has to be one of these cases , but I don't know for which I should go :'(
Not a fan of bringing me and Sapph into daggers-drawn like this. This essentially paints the picture that either one of us has to be scum while whoever is left is cleared. We could be scum pulling an epic distancing play, and we could be two Townies who have gotten wildly tunneled. There is nothing preventing one of us from being scum, of course, but that doesn't mean the remaining one is necessarily Town.
This is a fair stance (and one of the reasons I've asked to be seer checked since I doubt most players will be willing to townread me this game otherwise) but I think it's mutually incompatible with Lau not wanting to chop people who have legitimate reasons for not being present in thread (Hydra, Taul). I don't think we should be telling the seer to check players who are reasonably likely to semi-clear themselves but also refusing to consider voting players who will not be clearing themselves (regardless of how sympathetic we are to them being busy).If I'm not getting scanned then I'd much prefer it to be somebody like Hydra (unless they post more) if you're not wanting them to be voted. Sapphiron, if town, can probably post himself into being widely townread given time.I really think players who will be active adversaries or active allies to the Seer are far more valuable scan options. And Sapphiron, if scum, can probably still post himself into being widely townread given time.
Something I've been deliberating: how do people feel about ENE's sudden read change on me? Anybody can feel free to chime in.I think it rather suspicious, so I agree with you there. But then again, it's quite easy to paint someone as a wolf when they already have a wagon on them, even if for some reason ENE is a defender, etc.
Hmm. Can I get some outside perspective here? Am I really that scary that it would inspire someone to tunnel me this much?In my opinion you're not. Very loud and very active, yes. But scary to the point someone would tunnel to an extreme, definitely not. Nothing you've done so far has been very different from standard Lau directing conversation in a werewolf game.
With all due respect, posts like this are ones that really just clog up the topic and make it unnecessarily hard to follow, without adding anything.^^ Second this considering like 10 pages have been posted in the period from last night when I last looked to now :'(
Yeah, I seriously doubt ENE is a defender, or I would have expected his first reads list to have had at least one town. Instead it was just me and LoS as scum.Same for if he was seer I would hope.
I actually think ENE is scum.do you think that because there can be only one turtle?
but you do make a good point, in your other posts.
Vote: Make ENE Leave
Can we focus, please? Let's choose two people who we have the most scum equity for and have them be the main wagons. All these vanity wagons make analysing voting history when people start flipping useless.
I didn't vote for ENE cause I feel that he might have a PR , I would likely wait a bit more , thanks to the Vro and Sapph scandal , I witnessed in my very first game
I didn't vote for ENE cause I feel that he might have a PR , I would likely wait a bit more , thanks to the Vro and Sapph scandal , I witnessed in my very first gameIf you look at ENE's reads list, you'll see that he has no town reads. As Lau pointed out, it doesn't make sense for either power role to not point out the person they know is currently town for certain.
I didn't vote for ENE cause I feel that he might have a PR , I would likely wait a bit more , thanks to the Vro and Sapph scandal , I witnessed in my very first game
If he's a PR, it isn't defender, so it can only be the Seer or a Wolf. And I don't think he's the Seer, either, since he flip-flopped heavily with regards to LoS, and I would expect a much stronger push against me if I was his scan and ended up being a red check.
after waking up at 5:01 from my nap, I now can continue playing
I have a slight read list.
I don't know about most of the people, but there are three people I can read.
TGN- Town: I just really think he plays well, town 100% (I'm sorry, I had to)
LoS- Bully lean (scum is mean and would that make US a bully if we called each other scum? [once again so sorry]): He played well last game, but now I know his starts. It seems like he hasn't posted much yet, but I got my eye on you
BSR- Town lean: seems... ok, for now.
Doc- Town: Very helpful.
IT JUST SAID 3 NEW POST WHILE I WAS TYPING!
HOW
million WPM GEEZ
THEN WHILE ADDING SOMEONE ELSE, 2 NEW POSTS!!!!!!! >:(
good to see u are all active tho
I actually think ENE is scum.do you think that because there can be only one turtle?
but you do make a good point, in your other posts.
Vote: Make ENE Leave
Can you please elaborate?
Actually, good question, I don't know the current vote count myself.I gotchu fam.
Alright, so:Bolded you have your answer for question 4, Anu.
At this point I definitely think our main wagon should be ENE. If he's Town, then I am very confident he's not any role we need to worry about, like a Seer or defender, so we'd lose comparatively little. He also has a better case against him than any of the other low-posters, since it's based on meta from LoS specifically, and it will be a good chance for us to gauge to what degree we wish to trust LoS's reads going forward. If he actually does flip scum, then in my mind, I would immediately feel a lot more comfortable with LoS, since he doesn't strike me as someone who would needlessly bus.
Actually, good question, I don't know the current vote count myself.I gotchu fam.
Vote Tracker:Gerrick: LoS
Nyght: LoSLau: Anubhav
Gerrick: Anubhav
Doc: ENEAnubhav: ENE
Laurentus: ENE
TGN: ENE
Sapphiron: Colby
Colby: Hydra
BSR: TGN
Anubhav: TGN
Vote Count:
LoS - Nyght (1)
Anubhav - Gerrick (1)
ENE - Doc, Laurentus, TGN (3)
Colby - Sapph (1)
Hydra - Colby (1)
TGN - BSR, Anubhav (2)
ENE is majority wagon for the moment, with TGN as secondary.
With the revelation that No Lynch does not count towards modkill and taking into account the number of people who've voted, the list of people who must vote today or risk modkill is Cozmik, ENE, and Tau.
Lol Doc I did vote no lynch yesterday.
I won’t be around for EOD I think. So I’m gonna throw my vote on the
no lynch
pile for now.
Your choice will be marked with Vote: Make (insert name) Leave, or simply vote: (insert name) in bold. Voted choices will be removed from the game like normally.So in future I'd probably ensure your vote fits that format if you want to be sure it's counted.
Gerrick - I don't like how he made a post defending Anubhav but then had Anubhav as the second-lowest read on his list in that same post and then votes Anubhav in the following post. I feel like if his defence was genuine, Anubhav would surely be higher for him? I think the scumread on me was something he just did without putting much effort in and that he only actually justified it after I questioned him on it (and his apologetic tone makes me think he knows I'm town -> TMI). Last game Gerrick was extremely insightful and I know I personally saw him as a huge threat but I'm not seeing the genuine solving I saw then here.???
So the scummiest on my reads list is now Colberius X . Anu has talked themself into a null for me. So with that said:I'm hiding (poorly) how absolutely overwhelming the amount of posts in this topic is.
Vote: Make Colberius X leave
I'm interested in how ENE flips but I also don't have the meta to feel super comfortable placing my vote there. Right now, Colberius's lack of content makes them seem like they're hiding something.
What happens in the event of a tie?He doesn't specify in the rules, but the norm in the case of a draw has been that it will be randomly selected between the two tied options and I don't expect him to change it for this game.
I'm hiding (poorly) how absolutely overwhelming the amount of posts in this topic is.As a note to you, the above-mentioned two (on the assumption that maybe you're not posting because the pace of posts is too stressful to want to keep up), or really anyone else who was coming in expecting one thing and then being rudely confronted with another; please let someone know if you're burned out and not having fun in the game, don't try to force yourself to keep playing if it's not enjoyable.
Eleven hours left till EOD, and again a reminder to @ENE and @Tau that y'all must vote or risk modkill.Heads up that I didn't get notified by that, if you used the member bbcode directly rather than using an @ symbol then that is probably why. I believe the @ is necessary to trigger the notifications/PMs.
Perhaps I would be more active if this game wasn't so hard to follow. I wasn't expecting this when signing up and reading this:What is RVS vote?ISOing you to see if I was willing to actually vote for you instead of just reading you (esp. considering you're currently the biggest wagon, which I don't want to hop aboard unless I'm sure) I noticed you never got an answer to this question; RVS is 'Random Voting Stage', which is another term for a D1 vote made on basically no information whatsoever.
Now that that's been said, in the end I decided that while I'm still sus vis-a-vis Anubhav, I'd rather we had another wagon both for the reasons I outline above (I don't want to hop aboard the majority wagon unless I'm Sure) and for wagonomics reasons, since I'm obligated to vote today (as are Anubhav, BSR, Cozmik, ENE, Hydra, Nyght, and Tau) rather than no-lynching because of Rule 6.
Moreover, I'd prefer secondary wagon not be LoS, since even though I'm nullreading him, I acknowledge that that may well be driven by residual paranoia from last game rather than anything else, and so if we let him get lynched I think we're likely to be depriving town of a strong analytical mind.
Therefore on balance, I'm going to
Vote: ENE,
because thus far he has made exactly three posts, all of which are a single line and which give us no information to work off of. He doesn't have the least posts, but I think he has the least substance in his posts, and so among my nullreads he's the one I'm most comfortable offering up as a wagon.Quote from: MichiI figured I'd run a smaller game for those of you who want something a bit more calm but still fun.
For people who aren't aware (I believe you are but for the sake of others) I have a lot of meta on ENE.I actually think ENE is scum.
Interesting, how so?
When he's active, he's definitely more of a tryhard town (much more than you'd expect honestly). As scum he's typically very inactive and doesn't solve anywhere near as much (and he also has a habit of trying to act towny only when pressured). The reads post was probably at least semi-serious and I don't see how a towny comes to those conclusions (particularly a person who self admittedly can't read me and usually has me as null / town lean when I'm town and has only ever scumread me before when he was a wolf himself).
I think he's scum trying to get a low-effort townread by posting something brazenly wolfy (particularly because of my habit to TR this sort of behaviour). The reads post seems pretty out of character for him but especially him as town.
He was already on my radar before this but he was mostly null.
Would go into more detail but my fingers are cold.
Based on these posts, I think it's quite believable that ENE signed up expecting a chiller game with lower time commitment and the activity we're seeing from him is the result of that. I'm not familiar with Discord games, but I would assume that they're faster-paced with lower longer-term time commitment overall? If so, then the styles of activity and activity level would be drastically different. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. Regardless, I feel like if time investment is the issue here, then player meta from these older games doesn't really factor in, since people can sometimes commit more time when they're more free and/or more interested in participating which may not be the case when expectations were for a lower time commitment game.I am incredibly confused why you're unvoting in the first place, Anu. You are the other main wagon.Sadly, it's only Discord games we've played together (of which we have played around 20). ENE can be a mixed bag for how much effort he is willing/able to put into a town game but I think that's more based on time commitment.
And to @Legacy of Smiles: I don't suppose you have any links to games where ENE had this MO for a scum game? Because now that you mention it, I did see him in action as a Townie in a recent game in XKI, and he definitely tried harder. He also had a scum game here where he pretty much just lurked, and then the last game here he was also lurky, but in that one, he was Town.
Anub is now a scumlean: largely this is informed by just how similar I feel his play is right now to LoS' last game, which was a staggering amount of activity meant to corral people down a particular avenue to a mislynch like a powerwolf in sheepdog's clothing. While there doesn't seem to be a certain specific target being chased, the emphasis on inactive people, when, like, hell, maybe at least some - e.g. Tau's expressed this will likely be 'his last game of WW' because of the activity spike - are just put off. We've had this problem happen before. And the 'Doc sus cause he hasn't posted yet, 2 hours after the phase started' thing is particularly grating now that I'm considering this angle, frankly.But also he's gotten used to the more active games recently (to the point that on Discord after the last Werewolf game he thought things hadn't really changed much, only player count driving activity rather than changed culture/strategies, which is like, clearly untrue) so honestly I'm not surprised for him to be biased against less active players.
Town:Well, let me link you to his scum game. I wonder if you can spot any parallels.That's definitely an interesting read, thanks.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0
ENE, any chance that you could post a few reads with some detailed explanations for me please?
I won't lie, I am frustrated and stressed, partially because of this game. Take the list with a grain of salt, it was rushed as I have a presentation in about two minutes.ReadsTown:Well, let me link you to his scum game. I wonder if you can spot any parallels.That's definitely an interesting read, thanks.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0
ENE, any chance that you could post a few reads with some detailed explanations for me please?
- TGN -> is acting quite town-y, pretty much like last game
Town Lean:
- BSR -> reasonable posts, remind me of last game
- Gerrick -> I've liked the reads lists and effort, although I may not agree
- Nyght -> is playing different from last game, good feeling
- Colberius X -> I feel like they are playing with a town-y mindset, although this lean is ever-so slight
Null:
- Anubhav Gosh -> I have no idea how to read Anu
- LoS -> unsure
- Cozmik -> unsure
- Sapphiron -> unsure
- Doc -> unsure
- Taulover -> unsure
- Hydra -> unsure
Scum Lean:
- Laurentus -> I've disliked some of his posts
It's a bit concerning that after Laurentus moved me from null to leaning town, the thread consensus has gone from most people putting me in scum leans to people putting me in town leans.
Not liking the TGN wagon, too many suspicious voters on it and completely without a good case or really any case that I see at all.
It's worth noting that Gerrick/ENE would make a very likely scumteam because of Gerrick's voting and his earlier prod of inactives (which would presumably be because they contain a teammate of his if a wolf). Don't want to go any deeper into associations pre-flip but I thought it was worth pointing out just in case I died.
I'm going to be around at EoD to move to ENE if I needed to but I would prefer Gerrick to be the other option over Anub/TGN.It's worth noting that Gerrick/ENE would make a very likely scumteam because of Gerrick's voting and his earlier prod of inactives (which would presumably be because they contain a teammate of his if a wolf). Don't want to go any deeper into associations pre-flip but I thought it was worth pointing out just in case I died.
So why are you not voting for ENE, again? Even if there is a link between Gerrick and ENE, why put your vote on a vanity wagon?
Okay, so for my strategy to work, I am going to need serious buy-in from a Town who trusts me. Can everyone please tell me who their preference to scan would have been if they were the Seer?I'm a town who trusts you, are you suggesting we leave seer cover?
I didn't like your post about implying a Anu/Gerrick defender pair.I won't lie, I am frustrated and stressed, partially because of this game. Take the list with a grain of salt, it was rushed as I have a presentation in about two minutes.ReadsTown:Well, let me link you to his scum game. I wonder if you can spot any parallels.That's definitely an interesting read, thanks.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0
ENE, any chance that you could post a few reads with some detailed explanations for me please?
- TGN -> is acting quite town-y, pretty much like last game
Town Lean:
- BSR -> reasonable posts, remind me of last game
- Gerrick -> I've liked the reads lists and effort, although I may not agree
- Nyght -> is playing different from last game, good feeling
- Colberius X -> I feel like they are playing with a town-y mindset, although this lean is ever-so slight
Null:
- Anubhav Gosh -> I have no idea how to read Anu
- LoS -> unsure
- Cozmik -> unsure
- Sapphiron -> unsure
- Doc -> unsure
- Taulover -> unsure
- Hydra -> unsure
Scum Lean:
- Laurentus -> I've disliked some of his posts
Which posts have you disliked, and why?
I don't know what you would do as wolf, it could be possible.
I don't see how it makes sense to get the defenders night-killed as town. I might be missing something, though.
Why don't you list the possible reasons I have such an interest in identifying the defenders, but am generally trying to play coy about any pairings I see?
For the record, I have already identified a few possible pairings, and most of them, I will never talk about.
Every time I warm up to you possibly being Town, you have to go ruin it by sneaking in false statements like the (And Outing) bit, when I have clearly said I keep quiet about most possible pairings I see. I now have to figure out whether you really are the paranoid type who will forever see the worst possible intent behind my actions, or whether you're scum trying to discredit a Town leader.In the last game I remember when ENE was active as scum, I was leading town and I recall that ENE threw shade on me very similarly to how he did to us both earlier (so shade but not pushing) until I got consensus townread from finding wolves that clearly wasn't bussing. One of the reasons I immediately pinged on him is that that I've only ever seen him this sceptical of town leaders when he's been scum.
Seer cover is not what I'm going for. I don't think the players here are ready for it yet.Sorry, I must have misread you. I strongly agree that it wouldn't be a good strategy but I thought you were of the impression that it was going to be extremely helpful.
I still want everyone to say who they would have scanned the previous night and who they'd likely scan this night, but not for Seer cover reasons.N1 - Doc
Not completely sold on the idea of cop cover (I only see it ending in disaster and a dead seer) but if Laurentus still wants to push this strongly after me saying this then I'll trust him and cooperate.No-one really. Who is wolf if I'm not? Would Gerrick be cleared?
If ENE flips scum then I'm pretty sure TGN is town and there is at least one wolf on his wagon. Also would be wanting Gerrick chopped ASAP.
I notice ENE hasn't voted yet. Who are you wanting to vote, ENE?
Every time I warm up to you possibly being Town, you have to go ruin it by sneaking in false statements like the (And Outing) bit, when I have clearly said I keep quiet about most possible pairings I see. I now have to figure out whether you really are the paranoid type who will forever see the worst possible intent behind my actions, or whether you're scum trying to discredit a Town leader.If paranoid means not taking everything by everyone for granted, then sure, I'm paranoid.
Gerrick wouldn't be cleared by any means and my read on him wouldn't change (I'm not including preflip associations in my read of him). If you're not scum then I would want to tighten the net on Hydra/Taulover/Gerrick/Colberius. Any thoughts on any of those four? Pretty confident that there are 1-2 scum in that list (and I would ask the seer to check inside that list if possible).Not completely sold on the idea of cop cover (I only see it ending in disaster and a dead seer) but if Laurentus still wants to push this strongly after me saying this then I'll trust him and cooperate.No-one really. Who is wolf if I'm not? Would Gerrick be cleared?
If ENE flips scum then I'm pretty sure TGN is town and there is at least one wolf on his wagon. Also would be wanting Gerrick chopped ASAP.
I notice ENE hasn't voted yet. Who are you wanting to vote, ENE?
They seem likable enough. I've liked Colberius' posts.Gerrick wouldn't be cleared by any means and my read on him wouldn't change (I'm not including preflip associations in my read of him). If you're not scum then I would want to tighten the net on Hydra/Taulover/Gerrick/Colberius. Any thoughts on any of those four? Pretty confident that there are 1-2 scum in that list (and I would ask the seer to check inside that list if possible).Not completely sold on the idea of cop cover (I only see it ending in disaster and a dead seer) but if Laurentus still wants to push this strongly after me saying this then I'll trust him and cooperate.No-one really. Who is wolf if I'm not? Would Gerrick be cleared?
If ENE flips scum then I'm pretty sure TGN is town and there is at least one wolf on his wagon. Also would be wanting Gerrick chopped ASAP.
I notice ENE hasn't voted yet. Who are you wanting to vote, ENE?
This feels like a non-read. My first thought being that you're trying not to leave us with valuable information when you die. I find it hard to think that you don't strongly suspect that a wolf is in that list based on how this game is playing out and assuming you're town.They seem likable enough. I've liked Colberius' posts.Gerrick wouldn't be cleared by any means and my read on him wouldn't change (I'm not including preflip associations in my read of him). If you're not scum then I would want to tighten the net on Hydra/Taulover/Gerrick/Colberius. Any thoughts on any of those four? Pretty confident that there are 1-2 scum in that list (and I would ask the seer to check inside that list if possible).Not completely sold on the idea of cop cover (I only see it ending in disaster and a dead seer) but if Laurentus still wants to push this strongly after me saying this then I'll trust him and cooperate.No-one really. Who is wolf if I'm not? Would Gerrick be cleared?
If ENE flips scum then I'm pretty sure TGN is town and there is at least one wolf on his wagon. Also would be wanting Gerrick chopped ASAP.
I notice ENE hasn't voted yet. Who are you wanting to vote, ENE?
N1:LauSeer cover is pretty much what we've been doing when you say N1: name and etc. The point being that if everyone does it and then the real seer dies, everyone knows who the seer checked every night. The issue with it is that it narrows down who the seer is and, if done badly, can narrow them down very quickly.
N2:Gerrick(this one would basically go in , had I been a seer , due to LoS' tunnel efforts)
And what is a Seer Cover exactly ? Is it the same thing as a seer squad ?
I don't think it's Hydra or Colberius. For one, I don't recall Hydra keeping this quiet when people have sussed him in previous games. And I am genuinely town-leaning Colby at this point, simply for his tone. It's also going to be difficult for a cop to check the low posters and clear them if they do end up giving a green check without the Seer giving themselves away, because rationalising the clear is going to be difficult.Probably best to go for people in the PoE but active enough to clear realistically then.
General vibes I'm getting from this game is that ~2 of the wolves are mostly inactive and are feeling overwhelmed by a bunch of very active townspeople who are starting to townread each other.So you think everyone active with the exception of one is town? I find it hard to believe, since there are only four "inactive" people and you are suggesting half of them are wolves? I guess it's possible, but it doesn't seem probable.
This feels like a non-read. My first thought being that you're trying not to leave us with valuable information when you die. I find it hard to think that you don't strongly suspect that a wolf is in that list based on how this game is playing out and assuming you're town.They seem likable enough. I've liked Colberius' posts.Gerrick wouldn't be cleared by any means and my read on him wouldn't change (I'm not including preflip associations in my read of him). If you're not scum then I would want to tighten the net on Hydra/Taulover/Gerrick/Colberius. Any thoughts on any of those four? Pretty confident that there are 1-2 scum in that list (and I would ask the seer to check inside that list if possible).Not completely sold on the idea of cop cover (I only see it ending in disaster and a dead seer) but if Laurentus still wants to push this strongly after me saying this then I'll trust him and cooperate.No-one really. Who is wolf if I'm not? Would Gerrick be cleared?
If ENE flips scum then I'm pretty sure TGN is town and there is at least one wolf on his wagon. Also would be wanting Gerrick chopped ASAP.
I notice ENE hasn't voted yet. Who are you wanting to vote, ENE?
General vibes I'm getting from this game is that ~2 of the wolves are mostly inactive and are feeling overwhelmed by a bunch of very active townspeople who are starting to townread each other.
I would steer you away from cozmik, I think her tone is pure/towny (and I think this is something that is really hard to fake for most people). I also don't see how scum ever makes her first post of the game (since I believe she hasn't been scum on a forum before) because that sort of post needs a lot of confidence that I don't think scum in her position would have. I think there are much more wolfy players that I would look at before her.General vibes I'm getting from this game is that ~2 of the wolves are mostly inactive and are feeling overwhelmed by a bunch of very active townspeople who are starting to townread each other.
Col and Tau does seem to genuinely help town , and it was Colberius X tbh , who made Lau a trustable person after hard tunnels . Tau has certainly given us a good reads list, taking into account the truth that this game went out of orders in terms of activity. However , I feel Hydra might be a scum , and cozmik is yet to produce some works of reasoning , and she is due to telling the rest what pinged her earlier . However in the most recent post of her , she placed me in a null, again no reason sited . Anyone , any thoughts ?
I would steer you away from cozmik, I think her tone is pure/towny (and I think this is something that is really hard to fake for most people). I also don't see how scum ever makes her first post of the game (since I believe she hasn't been scum on a forum before) because that sort of post needs a lot of confidence that I don't think scum in her position would have. I think there are much more wolfy players that I would look at before her.General vibes I'm getting from this game is that ~2 of the wolves are mostly inactive and are feeling overwhelmed by a bunch of very active townspeople who are starting to townread each other.
Col and Tau does seem to genuinely help town , and it was Colberius X tbh , who made Lau a trustable person after hard tunnels . Tau has certainly given us a good reads list, taking into account the truth that this game went out of orders in terms of activity. However , I feel Hydra might be a scum , and cozmik is yet to produce some works of reasoning , and she is due to telling the rest what pinged her earlier . However in the most recent post of her , she placed me in a null, again no reason sited . Anyone , any thoughts ?
It is very interesting to me that I would not be one of your scans, ENE.It's not as if I would be capable to get you lynched either way.
Not true. Even if you struggle to get me lynched while still alive, if you do indicate that you would have scanned me, and flip Seer, no matter what, I'm toast.It is very interesting to me that I would not be one of your scans, ENE.It's not as if I would be capable to get you lynched either way.
I guess if all stars were to align perfectly, it could work.Not true. Even if you struggle to get me lynched while still alive, if you do indicate that you would have scanned me, and flip Seer, no matter what, I'm toast.It is very interesting to me that I would not be one of your scans, ENE.It's not as if I would be capable to get you lynched either way.
Okay, so for my strategy to work, I am going to need serious buy-in from a Town who trusts me. Can everyone please tell me who their preference to scan would have been if they were the Seer?N1 - LoS
Oh god, here comes the WIFOMCould someone please explain this acronym, too?
Okay, so for my strategy to work, I am going to need serious buy-in from a Town who trusts me. Can everyone please tell me who their preference to scan would have been if they were the Seer?N1 - LoS
N2 - Lau or Sapph, depending on what is learned from the lynch todayOh god, here comes the WIFOMCould someone please explain this acronym, too?
I wish I didn't have to do this :(
Gerrick - I don't like how he made a post defending Anubhav but then had Anubhav as the second-lowest read on his list in that same post and then votes Anubhav in the following post. I feel like if his defence was genuine, Anubhav would surely be higher for him? I think the scumread on me was something he just did without putting much effort in and that he only actually justified it after I questioned him on it (and his apologetic tone makes me think he knows I'm town -> TMI). Last game Gerrick was extremely insightful and I know I personally saw him as a huge threat but I'm not seeing the genuine solving I saw then here.
Scum Lean:Gerrick made large, clearly explained, and insightful posts in AoT which though it was at times wrong, still felt townie based on tone to me, whereas now, when he's posted that's something in-game-focused, it's been short, with a small amount of explanation if any, and at times even noticeably inconsistent. I'm not feeling the townie tone.
Gerrick - Reads progression yesterday was really weird, especially about me and Anubhav. Playing very differently to last game and his reads seem a lot more opportunistic/ingenuine than then.
scum can read these posts tooIf it really is Hydra you have marked him for death now that we've lost a defender.
I still want everyone to say who they would have scanned the previous night and who they'd likely scan this night, but not for Seer cover reasons.N1 - Doc
N2 - Hydra
NyghtOwlDefender partner is likely Doc or Nyght, though the conflicting statement of asking Seer to scan Doc and then stating Doc as Town Core whilst encouraging Seer to scan null reads can perhaps be read as Legacy wanting Seer to scan him or Doc and hence bringing both into the Seer army with a single scan.
Laurentus (Yes, I still think he is town)
Doc
Might I ask the reasoning behind switching to Taul? I think I may have missed something.I was also confused. However, after rereading Vroendal's posts a few times though, I think I get it. Vroendal said earlier that he wanted to put pressure on several of the older Wintreans, including Gerrick and me. He already got a response from Gerrick, so he's moving on to me. He only has one post left to give, so he's saving it in case he needs to use it. As such he's doing an unexplained vote for me hoping for more information.
I don't know where you're seeing that roles were assigned by RNG before Michi just said it in thread, but I remember Michi saying during the last game on Discord that he definitely puts his finger on the scale (err... dice?) when it comes to role assignments in his werewolf games ("curating" as you said, which means giving certain player(s) certain role(s), i.e. giving one of those players a power role as I stated). Now he may not have done that this game, but that doesn't mean it was a faulty assumption. But I'm not gonna die on that hill if nobody else buys Hydra.If he's Human, then it similarly would apply that it is a vote that lines up with his previously stated reasoning. Either way this is really wack because it's a mechanical argument which I've already disagreed with earlier (players who join explicitly looking for a more chill time should ideally be given non-power roles if roles are curated), but which more importantly assumed that roles were curated when Michi has said they were not.
tau and Sapph, who do you think the human team is? You don't have to be sure, you don't have to be right, just state three names.
BSR, Nyght, what are your thoughts?
cozmik, how will you proceed today after the results of last day phase?
Doc, Anubhav, what are the vote counts telling you?
TGN, Hydra, you didn't say anything yesterday, why is that?
If any of you would like to speak beyond what I've asked you, that would be very beneficial to town.
I think we need to explore the no lynch fans , and Sapph .From a skim through the search function, the "No Lynch fans" as far as I can tell are -
I think we need to explore the no lynch fans , and Sapph .From a skim through the search function, the "No Lynch fans" as far as I can tell are -
Doc, BSR said it had some merit but preferred Lau's aggressive approach more, yourself, Hydra, tau saw No Lynch as the conventional wisdom but was hesitant to use it, cozmikrae, Doc x2.
If you want to get the thread moving again, you yourself should explore them. Saying that we need to do something is all good and well, but you've been a bit quiet lately with your own reasoning since players stopped pushing you. Why do you think we need to explore the no lynch fans and Sapph?
I am actually in agreement regarding cozmik, she pretty much hid behind wagons I initiated whether they succeeded or not, without adding much to the overall discussion
Based on activity, TGN has completely dipped from the thread.
I abide by clearing Hydra and Vro by Lau's final words, but can't decide whether it is Nyght or Doc who is the defender so I don't mind not touching them yet.
Therefore, Vro you asked me for 3 names I suspect to be scum, I can only provide 2 - cozmik and TGN. I am still null on Anub, BSR or tau
tau and Sapph, who do you think the human team is? You don't have to be sure, you don't have to be right, just state three names.If I'm being completely honest I'm not really reading anyone as Human particularly, I mostly just have people I think are villagers, and the remaining people being null reads.
Anubhav Ghosh: Gerrick -----> Vroendal -----> Sapphiron
Gerrick: Hydra ------> Sapphiron -----> Taulover
Doc: No Lynch -----> Sapphiron
Vroendal: Gerrick -----> Taulover
Sapphiron: Gerrick
Taulover: Gerrick
Cozmikrae: Gerrick
Totals:
Sapphiron: 2
Taulover: 2
Gerrick: 3
No votes: 4
Didn't vote: NyghtOwl, TGN, BraveSirRobin, Hydra
And with that, Gerrick has been chosen to leave the party. He was A Wolf Friend.
And now it's Quiet Time! So tuck yourselves in, get a glass of warm milk, and enjoy a nice nap. Power Wolves, you know what you do. Humans, send me your choice of bullying target (you monsters) for tonight.
This phase will end in 24 hours from this post.
I think we need to explore the no lynch fans , and Sapph .From a skim through the search function, the "No Lynch fans" as far as I can tell are -
Doc, BSR said it had some merit but preferred Lau's aggressive approach more, yourself, Hydra, tau saw No Lynch as the conventional wisdom but was hesitant to use it, cozmikrae, Doc x2.
If you want to get the thread moving again, you yourself should explore them. Saying that we need to do something is all good and well, but you've been a bit quiet lately with your own reasoning since players stopped pushing you. Why do you think we need to explore the no lynch fans and Sapph?
As of being quite , I miss the activity which was once present in this game , the game got chiller . I am chasing Sapph because when ENE and I were in a dilemma that Lau might be a scum , Sapph came in and played catalyst . As for the no lynch party , I don't know if they are buying Doc's idea of alternative no lynch , or they are a part of Seer squad . All in all , I think amongst the believers of Doc's theory , hides atleast one scum . I had suspicions against cozmik , her behaviour seemed awefully blunt to me .
Well, one thing to categorically state right off the bat:@Vroendal Do you know why was Lau so convinced you were town here?
Vro is Town. Don't vote for him. If he becomes a majority today and you waste your 4 posts and can't unvote, you'd better believe you'll be on my shit list forever.
tau and Sapph, who do you think the human team is? You don't have to be sure, you don't have to be right, just state three names.
BSR, Nyght, what are your thoughts?
cozmik, how will you proceed today after the results of last day phase?
Doc, Anubhav, what are the vote counts telling you?
TGN, Hydra, you didn't say anything yesterday, why is that?
If any of you would like to speak beyond what I've asked you, that would be very beneficial to town.
DEADAh fuck and I even voted for you
@taulover Yo, I'm dead.
Okay, now I'm really confused. You liked Sapph's post explaining this last day phase, so you definitely know what's going on, and saw the reactions. Vro hasn't addressed this point explicitly despite it already being brought up, are you expecting this to change? I can't tell if you've legitimately lost track of the major development last day phase (but you literally liked the post that outed this info) or if you're just trying to imply such.Well, one thing to categorically state right off the bat:@Vroendal Do you know why was Lau so convinced you were town here?
Vro is Town. Don't vote for him. If he becomes a majority today and you waste your 4 posts and can't unvote, you'd better believe you'll be on my shit list forever.
In the meantime, Vote: cozmikrae
DEADAh fuck and I even voted for you
@taulover Yo, I'm dead.
SorryOkay, now I'm really confused. You liked Sapph's post explaining this last day phase, so you definitely know what's going on, and saw the reactions. Vro hasn't addressed this point explicitly despite it already being brought up, are you expecting this to change? I can't tell if you've legitimately lost track of the major development last day phase (but you literally liked the post that outed this info) or if you're just trying to imply such.Well, one thing to categorically state right off the bat:@Vroendal Do you know why was Lau so convinced you were town here?
Vro is Town. Don't vote for him. If he becomes a majority today and you waste your 4 posts and can't unvote, you'd better believe you'll be on my shit list forever.
Because I believe Lau was the N1 seer scan, it implies his town core is mechanically cleared - Hydra (Seer) and Vro (ENE being N2 seer scan). I still have to look back to see if LOS cleared anybody else with highest probability of being his defender partner, but for the time being
Vote: Gerrick
I'm not a fan of either Sapph or cozmik being wagons today, I have my reasons, but I think those considering or voting those two need to reconsider.
I want a reaction from him, and that will determine if I really think he's scum. I've definitely pulled him down from my previous town-lean. His silence is a very scary thing to me right now in comparison to his previous activity. I'm liking this choice more than many others right now.I'm not a fan of either Sapph or cozmik being wagons today, I have my reasons, but I think those considering or voting those two need to reconsider.
I'm gonna be out of posts soon...
Are you voting for Doc purely for reactionary reasons or because you think he's scum?
Alright, I'm getting very nervous now.Ah. Shit, my b, the game got really boring without Lau and LoS driving activity and constantly spamming shit and I kinda sorta just forgot about it. Good job pinging me or I'd have just straight up probably have wound up inactivity lynched TBH. Kinda shittily ignominious way to go.
Doc where you at? You've been more active than most others, and with what seems to me to be good reasoning, why keep silence now? The fact that both tau AND you are keeping quiet seems like a bad sign to me.
Thus, in the absence of any certitude one way or the other (though now would be a great time to point it out if you have it, non-Seer), I have to vote for the IL candidate.I don't fully understand your vote for TGN. Yes, there might be some inactivity going on, but I'd rather try to seek and vote out an active human rather than just let someone who would be modkilled just get modkilled. At this point in the game, given your analysis of how the nights might go, I think a more aggressive approach is the right call -- go big or go home.
Vote SapphCould we get an explanation on this vote?
I'm not a fan of either Sapph or cozmik being wagons today, I have my reasons, but I think those considering or voting those two need to reconsider.You have been right thus far, I just need you to put cozmik inside a read list and if it’s satisfactory I will vote another person
What is an IL?Inactivity lynch.
I don't fully understand your vote for TGN. Yes, there might be some inactivity going on, but I'd rather try to seek and vote out an active human rather than just let someone who would be modkilled just get modkilled. At this point in the game, given your analysis of how the nights might go, I think a more aggressive approach is the right call -- go big or go home.It's very simple.
Vote: cozmikrae
Two reasons:
1. Did what appears to essentially be an OMGUS vote for Sapph
2. For someone with decent Werewolf experience and a relatively high activity level, I find it a tad hard to believe that she could've missed what was going on with the seer army reconstruction. It's certainly possible that she legitimately didn't get / hasn't gotten it, but it feels almost deliberately obtuse to me, like she's committed to feigning ignorance or something.
Further reasons against other current wagons:
Doc made a good point that we were basically guaranteed a loss if all three lynches went through. This seems like a reasonable argument to me, or at least a well-intentioned one, so I don't really see reason to find that suspect. Situation has changed now that Nyght as voted though, so as Hydra said it may be worth the risk of the double lynch; as such won't be voting TGN. As I've noted before, I think Sapph's behavior makes more logical sense as a villager than as a Human (not TWTBAW as Doc suggested, moreso just that the outing behavior on further reflection seemed more town-y to me).
This is my second game of werewolf. At least in terms of forum werewolf.Oh huh, you gave off much more experienced vibes than that, my bad. I think I saw you say that you have experience with Werewolf/Mafia in general though? I sorta assumed that you might be one of those Discord Mafia players like LoS and ENE. Or is it more just casual in-person Mafia experience?
tau and Sapph, who do you think the human team is? You don't have to be sure, you don't have to be right, just state three names.I wasn't on.
BSR, Nyght, what are your thoughts?
cozmik, how will you proceed today after the results of last day phase?
Doc, Anubhav, what are the vote counts telling you?
TGN, Hydra, you didn't say anything yesterday, why is that?
If any of you would like to speak beyond what I've asked you, that would be very beneficial to town.
Ah.
Vote: Make Doc LeaveThis is my second game of werewolf. At least in terms of forum werewolf.Oh huh, you gave off much more experienced vibes than that, my bad. I think I saw you say that you have experience with Werewolf/Mafia in general though? I sorta assumed that you might be one of those Discord Mafia players like LoS and ENE. Or is it more just casual in-person Mafia experience?
tau and Sapph, who do you think the human team is? You don't have to be sure, you don't have to be right, just state three names.I wasn't on.
BSR, Nyght, what are your thoughts?
cozmik, how will you proceed today after the results of last day phase?
Doc, Anubhav, what are the vote counts telling you?
TGN, Hydra, you didn't say anything yesterday, why is that?
If any of you would like to speak beyond what I've asked you, that would be very beneficial to town.
anyways Vote: Make BSR Leave
because he vote me and I need to vote or I get kicked out.
how is it "strange"tau and Sapph, who do you think the human team is? You don't have to be sure, you don't have to be right, just state three names.I wasn't on.
BSR, Nyght, what are your thoughts?
cozmik, how will you proceed today after the results of last day phase?
Doc, Anubhav, what are the vote counts telling you?
TGN, Hydra, you didn't say anything yesterday, why is that?
If any of you would like to speak beyond what I've asked you, that would be very beneficial to town.
anyways Vote: Make BSR Leave
because he vote me and I need to vote or I get kicked out.
He voted for vague reasons , I didn't . Yet you choose BSR over me ? That's strange
I still don't understand how votes are piling up on Doc just like this . If he is wolf , I will assume bus attempts , and if he is town , I will assume sheep activity from wolf to hide as a scumSeriously Anub, did you not look at the Seer army identification attempt? Once Doc flips wolf I will take note of this against you
Switch Vote: Sapphiron
That made absolutely no sense, Anub you are completely off. I am literally the one who encouraged Vro to state the seer read ytd, and literally the first one out of seer squad that encouraged the vote afterwards. Honestly if Anub didn’t human, idk who can be. I am willing to tunnel on him
Since you will tunnel me either way , who other than me do you think is suspicious ?
That made absolutely no sense, Anub you are completely off. I am literally the one who encouraged Vro to state the seer read ytd, and literally the first one out of seer squad that encouraged the vote afterwards. Honestly if Anub didn’t human, idk who can be. I am willing to tunnel on himTo be honest, Anubhav's behavior now is actually what's putting me off wanting to vote him immediately. Does a human make these actions in this way? I feel like a wolf out of everyone in the game would have the most practical knowledge of the situation, and would know how to blend in a lot better. That being said if several other possibilities are exhausted I will vote Anubhav. Are Anubhav's interactions regarding Doc indicative that they're scum buddies or not? I've been trying to determine that, and have not had any clear insights. Perhaps you would have a better perspective, Sapph.
I don't think that Cozmik could have had seen the seer expose attempt as wolfish , given her experience. Also I feel Sapph is a wolf playing sheep , swinging with the tide.Yeah I feel weird about Sapph as well. The only thing keeping me from voting is Vro’s defense. I’m also kinda lost with the seer army thing. Bits of pieces of this strategy will need to be spoonfed to me post game. :-[
Vote:Sapphiron
I have been attacking Sapph much before , since the time Lau tunnelled on me , and ENE and I hit back at him . Sapph sided with me back then , and with Doc the same thing happened . And its not "You pick on me , I pick on you back" stuff here. It just seems so awkward . However since you are asking me to wait and reconsider , I will do so .That made absolutely no sense, Anub you are completely off. I am literally the one who encouraged Vro to state the seer read ytd, and literally the first one out of seer squad that encouraged the vote afterwards. Honestly if Anub didn’t human, idk who can be. I am willing to tunnel on himTo be honest, Anubhav's behavior now is actually what's putting me off wanting to vote him immediately. Does a human make these actions in this way? I feel like a wolf out of everyone in the game would have the most practical knowledge of the situation, and would know how to blend in a lot better. That being said if several other possibilities are exhausted I will vote Anubhav. Are Anubhav's interactions regarding Doc indicative that they're scum buddies or not? I've been trying to determine that, and have not had any clear insights. Perhaps you would have a better perspective, Sapph.
Anubhav, I don't think Sapph is a human based on Doc's attack on Sapph yesterday, it just really didn't give me those vibes. Your efforts to lynch in what my mind is a more confident town-lean is not very encouraging. You'll have to make a better case than that reasoning. If you're trying to do the play where you see who attacks you for scummy reasoning, concluding that the attacker is an opportunist human, please don't. We would do better by filling out our process of elimination and it saves you the risk of being voted out.
If Anubhav's a human, boy will I look like a birdbrain. XD He's in my Nulls right now, but I'm not excited about his lynch right now.
Coz is honestly acting strange this game as well, she protested to being labelled as new in previous game due to prior experience, but fully embracing the "new player" persona - and considering how lenient Wintreath culture has been to fall for the newbie trick for 2 times in a row - I am not buying itThis game is a lot more subtle than last game. We (as in town) have been asked to trust and vote based on unspoken strategies from people like Vro and Lau, my inexperience is keeping me from quite understanding what they're thinking. Last game, I also used my newness to defend that fact that I made grave mistakes because of things I completely missed. The same thing is happening here. Since this is my only 2nd game, I think you shouldn't be so quick to decide to vote for me based on meta. I am likely to change my play style until I settle into a way to play the game.
So I have three scum leans at the moment with a few nulls.One of the very first thing I did was asking for a Seer scan , and I am asking for it even now . If that's not proof enough then nothing is .
First up is Sapph. Who straight out revealed our sweet and kinda screwed the pooch on that one. Which seems pretty humany. But Vro seems sure they aren't so I'm willing to go along with that for now.
Anub has been really off all game and I just haven't been able to follow their train of though this game, which is weird because in AoT they were concise and to the point. (Even if it was the wrong point)
And for some reason I can't remember at the time Taul was ringing a bell. I think it had something to do with being really on board with Doc's no lynch plan. I do remember them saying it was because their a more old school player but that could easily be a cover that was suggested for them.
As of this moment it all feels very circumstantial so I'm not sure where I'm gonna land. I'm leaning towards Anub but I could be swayed.
The seer was killed. So that's not gonna happen.So I have three scum leans at the moment with a few nulls.One of the very first thing I did was asking for a Seer scan , and I am asking for it even now . If that's not proof enough then nothing is .
First up is Sapph. Who straight out revealed our sweet and kinda screwed the pooch on that one. Which seems pretty humany. But Vro seems sure they aren't so I'm willing to go along with that for now.
Anub has been really off all game and I just haven't been able to follow their train of though this game, which is weird because in AoT they were concise and to the point. (Even if it was the wrong point)
And for some reason I can't remember at the time Taul was ringing a bell. I think it had something to do with being really on board with Doc's no lynch plan. I do remember them saying it was because their a more old school player but that could easily be a cover that was suggested for them.
As of this moment it all feels very circumstantial so I'm not sure where I'm gonna land. I'm leaning towards Anub but I could be swayed.
So I have three scum leans at the moment with a few nulls.With Sapph, the thing is that the humans would actually have absolutely no reason to reveal the Seer to the thread precisely because it's a very suspicious move. Doc jumped on Sapph's reasoning lightning-fast, which wouldn't make sense either unless he specifically wanted to lynch a fellow human, which doesn't really jive because Doc was already being widely townread, and Gerrick was a major townie wagon with a good amount of reasoning to back it up as being justifiable. Why start a wagon to try and lynch a fellow human in that situation? Also, a human wants to be seen as townie so they don't get lynched, so generally they don't try to make very suspicious posts for no real reason. As Sapph said before if he really was a human he could just nightkill the Seer without revealing to the town+defender who it was, and thusly have no suspicion on him while also having a lower risk that the defender definitely protects the Seer that night. I'm never 100% sure on my reads unless they're mechanical, but I'm pretty sure I'm right here, and wouldn't even consider that I've been wrong until we're in the late game and he isn't dead already.
First up is Sapph. Who straight out revealed our sweet and kinda screwed the pooch on that one. Which seems pretty humany. But Vro seems sure they aren't so I'm willing to go along with that for now.
Anub has been really off all game and I just haven't been able to follow their train of though this game, which is weird because in AoT they were concise and to the point. (Even if it was the wrong point)
And for some reason I can't remember at the time Taul was ringing a bell. I think it had something to do with being really on board with Doc's no lynch plan. I do remember them saying it was because their a more old school player but that could easily be a cover that was suggested for them.
As of this moment it all feels very circumstantial so I'm not sure where I'm gonna land. I'm leaning towards Anub but I could be swayed.
@VroendalI think cozmik is a townie. TGN is inactive, but you could always go back and read his earlier posts. Hydra died last night! Where've you been? This actually really makes me think you're scum trying to play it off like you're not aware of the game Which townie doesn't notice or at least assume the Seer is very likely to die if there was no kill last day phase and I'm not dead today? That's super sus to me, Anubhav. Your point about asking for a scan seems good though, even if the Seer was revealed after getting a scum result on you, with two defenders alive they could definitely make a push on you, potentially revealing themselves to the humans, but also allowing the defenders to rotate protecting them, meaning they wouldn't be nightkilled even after showing the humans who they are and attempting to get a human lynched.
Any thoughts of Coz ? Also I have no potential ways to see into TGN and Hydra , they are too inactive to get a read on
Idk why people are buying into Doc’s argument that the Seer reveal is human behaviour. You do know that those humans already figured it out when I posted it, since Doc was on the exact same wavelength. My reveal secures 2-3 town cores that no one will ever vote against, as well as direct the defender in the right direction in case it wasn’t clear. I stand by my decision that the reveal was the right choice.Please bear with me because I got day drunk on the Wine in Front of Me. So Sapph, the reason the seer reveal bothers me is because it's such a not town thing that you'd have to be town to do it. But at the same time it brings no advantage to town. So I'm like, what was the point? There's no clear advantage to announcing it like that. So it's like, why do it? So does that mean that you saw it as such an obvious mistake that people wouldn't think you, as a more experienced players would make that mistake as a wolf? And how exactly did you know that the humans knew at that point? Did Doc take a fall to provide a human with an ironclad defense? The ultimate distancing?
Also, Hydra already died. Idk if you haven’t been reading the thread, or you attempting a fake derp clear, Anub.
Please bear with me because I got day drunk on the Wine in Front of Me. So Sapph, the reason the seer reveal bothers me is because it's such a not town thing that you'd have to be town to do it. But at the same time it brings no advantage to town. So I'm like, what was the point? There's no clear advantage to announcing it like that. So it's like, why do it? So does that mean that you saw it as such an obvious mistake that people wouldn't think you, as a more experienced players would make that mistake as a wolf? And how exactly did you know that the humans knew at that point? Did Doc take a fall to provide a human with an ironclad defense? The ultimate distancing?Once again, I have to reiterate that the Seer reveal is not too Wolf to be Wolf. That is literally Doc’s train of thought and he has already been exposed as a scum, and thereby his intentions are impure.
Could you perhaps explain the logic behind why you did that? Because I've seen you say that it isn't sus. But not why you did it to begin with. It would do wonders to clear you from my list. Thank you.
Is this "later" enough so that you're able to try again or not yet, @taulover?Well, clearly not. :P
Hypothetically speaking, if there were a Human who was pretty much inactive until after the seer army's role reveal of Doc, the logical thing to do certainly would be to try to build up the counterwagon as a last-ditch effort. And the only way to do that at that point would be to feign ignorance of the whole situation. Then, the only way for that to be convincing would be to double down on that effort.That made absolutely no sense, Anub you are completely off. I am literally the one who encouraged Vro to state the seer read ytd, and literally the first one out of seer squad that encouraged the vote afterwards. Honestly if Anub didn’t human, idk who can be. I am willing to tunnel on himTo be honest, Anubhav's behavior now is actually what's putting me off wanting to vote him immediately. Does a human make these actions in this way? I feel like a wolf out of everyone in the game would have the most practical knowledge of the situation, and would know how to blend in a lot better. That being said if several other possibilities are exhausted I will vote Anubhav. Are Anubhav's interactions regarding Doc indicative that they're scum buddies or not? I've been trying to determine that, and have not had any clear insights. Perhaps you would have a better perspective, Sapph.
To clarify - like the playing cards version of mafia, or Ultimate Werewolf, or One Night?This is my second game of werewolf. At least in terms of forum werewolf.Oh huh, you gave off much more experienced vibes than that, my bad. I think I saw you say that you have experience with Werewolf/Mafia in general though? I sorta assumed that you might be one of those Discord Mafia players like LoS and ENE. Or is it more just casual in-person Mafia experience?
I’ve played a lot of the card version.
And for some reason I can't remember at the time Taul was ringing a bell. I think it had something to do with being really on board with Doc's no lynch plan. I do remember them saying it was because their a more old school player but that could easily be a cover that was suggested for them.Not sure what you mean by this. I posted what I think was a fair analysis of No Lynch on the first day, because it was the main wagon at the time and nobody else was taking it seriously. I suggested that perhaps the newcomers from external Mafia forums have a stronger and perhaps inaccurate bias against No Lynch, because I was struggling to come up with good logical counterarguments against No Lynch. However, I was ultimately hesitant to go against the common wisdom and did not vote No Lynch. The old-school connection was important and relevant to those thoughts because, other than Doc, the one other person who had voted No Lynch at the time (IIRC) was Hydra.
Hasn't Sapph's seer army reveal already paid dividends? Without it, I doubt we would have had enough confidence in Vro to trust his claim about Doc, and the last day phase would've been another mislynch.Idk why people are buying into Doc’s argument that the Seer reveal is human behaviour. You do know that those humans already figured it out when I posted it, since Doc was on the exact same wavelength. My reveal secures 2-3 town cores that no one will ever vote against, as well as direct the defender in the right direction in case it wasn’t clear. I stand by my decision that the reveal was the right choice.Please bear with me because I got day drunk on the Wine in Front of Me. So Sapph, the reason the seer reveal bothers me is because it's such a not town thing that you'd have to be town to do it. But at the same time it brings no advantage to town. So I'm like, what was the point? There's no clear advantage to announcing it like that. So it's like, why do it? So does that mean that you saw it as such an obvious mistake that people wouldn't think you, as a more experienced players would make that mistake as a wolf? And how exactly did you know that the humans knew at that point? Did Doc take a fall to provide a human with an ironclad defense? The ultimate distancing?
Also, Hydra already died. Idk if you haven’t been reading the thread, or you attempting a fake derp clear, Anub.
Anyone who is quoted gets a notification, or at least I do when I'm quoted.There's an option to turn of PM/email notifications, but that does it for both mentions and quotes I think.
You've been a consistent Null read for many people, making posts (including this last one) that although are good, don't really lead us anywhere, or states a take on the style. It could be argued that Doc was trying to save you for pushing on Sapph without making himself more obvious by pushing Gerrick.Or, if they do lead us anywhere they lead us to a place we've either already reached, or could reach by ourselves. Basically to me it feels like you're making safe posts instead of townie posts.
Thank you for explaining your thought process to me. I'm still picking up bits and pieces here and there, so things like this aren't immediately obvious. I've only played one game before this and my strategy was "say as little as possible."Please bear with me because I got day drunk on the Wine in Front of Me. So Sapph, the reason the seer reveal bothers me is because it's such a not town thing that you'd have to be town to do it. But at the same time it brings no advantage to town. So I'm like, what was the point? There's no clear advantage to announcing it like that. So it's like, why do it? So does that mean that you saw it as such an obvious mistake that people wouldn't think you, as a more experienced players would make that mistake as a wolf? And how exactly did you know that the humans knew at that point? Did Doc take a fall to provide a human with an ironclad defense? The ultimate distancing?Once again, I have to reiterate that the Seer reveal is not too Wolf to be Wolf. That is literally Doc’s train of thought and he has already been exposed as a scum, and thereby his intentions are impure.
Could you perhaps explain the logic behind why you did that? Because I've seen you say that it isn't sus. But not why you did it to begin with. It would do wonders to clear you from my list. Thank you.
My intention at that time is one of distinct frustration at the utter lack of activity and by extension, interest left in the remaining players to solve the game after Lau and LOS left. As such, the best way to do so is to openly analyse Lau and LOS last words, seeing both are confirmed Town, with Lau clearly a Seer scan on first night and LOS one of the defenders. By putting this analysis and reveal out into the open, I want to secure at least 2 Town cores - Hydra, Vro - with the potential third defender being Doc (turns out LOS misread, and him putting him there is not mech clear but inference clear) or you. This is while focusing our remaining attention on the rest. I would also want to direct the remaining defender’s attention to defend Hydra, at the bare minimum secure us one more scan which is Doc and that is to our advantage. On the most manifestly observable level, it returned some degree of activity back into this game, and we managed to find Doc is a human.
Is this "later" enough so that you're able to try again or not yet, @taulover?Well, clearly not. :P
Got my second dose today, so I was trying to get as much homework done before the side effects kick in (which considering how chilly I feel despite the current temperature in the room, is probably about now).
I don't appreciate the selective quoting - I didn't say I would be able to try again later, only if I have time. In this case my time actually has run out, and my body is seriously just telling me to curl up and go to sleep, but since I'm already here I might as well give it a shot. Just don't expect my thoughts to be as coherent as usual.Hypothetically speaking, if there were a Human who was pretty much inactive until after the seer army's role reveal of Doc, the logical thing to do certainly would be to try to build up the counterwagon as a last-ditch effort. And the only way to do that at that point would be to feign ignorance of the whole situation. Then, the only way for that to be convincing would be to double down on that effort.That made absolutely no sense, Anub you are completely off. I am literally the one who encouraged Vro to state the seer read ytd, and literally the first one out of seer squad that encouraged the vote afterwards. Honestly if Anub didn’t human, idk who can be. I am willing to tunnel on himTo be honest, Anubhav's behavior now is actually what's putting me off wanting to vote him immediately. Does a human make these actions in this way? I feel like a wolf out of everyone in the game would have the most practical knowledge of the situation, and would know how to blend in a lot better. That being said if several other possibilities are exhausted I will vote Anubhav. Are Anubhav's interactions regarding Doc indicative that they're scum buddies or not? I've been trying to determine that, and have not had any clear insights. Perhaps you would have a better perspective, Sapph.
In Anub's case, I'm not quite convinced that that is what's going on here, main reason being that he switched votes to Sapph afterwards rather than staying on the main counterwagon of TGN. But that switch could also be an attempt to course-correct/avoid suspicion after realizing that the counterwagon was not going to feasibly tie the Doc votes. Not sure, I haven't looked closely enough at the votes to verify what was going on there.To clarify - like the playing cards version of mafia, or Ultimate Werewolf, or One Night?This is my second game of werewolf. At least in terms of forum werewolf.Oh huh, you gave off much more experienced vibes than that, my bad. I think I saw you say that you have experience with Werewolf/Mafia in general though? I sorta assumed that you might be one of those Discord Mafia players like LoS and ENE. Or is it more just casual in-person Mafia experience?
I’ve played a lot of the card version.And for some reason I can't remember at the time Taul was ringing a bell. I think it had something to do with being really on board with Doc's no lynch plan. I do remember them saying it was because their a more old school player but that could easily be a cover that was suggested for them.Not sure what you mean by this. I posted what I think was a fair analysis of No Lynch on the first day, because it was the main wagon at the time and nobody else was taking it seriously. I suggested that perhaps the newcomers from external Mafia forums have a stronger and perhaps inaccurate bias against No Lynch, because I was struggling to come up with good logical counterarguments against No Lynch. However, I was ultimately hesitant to go against the common wisdom and did not vote No Lynch. The old-school connection was important and relevant to those thoughts because, other than Doc, the one other person who had voted No Lynch at the time (IIRC) was Hydra.Hasn't Sapph's seer army reveal already paid dividends? Without it, I doubt we would have had enough confidence in Vro to trust his claim about Doc, and the last day phase would've been another mislynch.Idk why people are buying into Doc’s argument that the Seer reveal is human behaviour. You do know that those humans already figured it out when I posted it, since Doc was on the exact same wavelength. My reveal secures 2-3 town cores that no one will ever vote against, as well as direct the defender in the right direction in case it wasn’t clear. I stand by my decision that the reveal was the right choice.Please bear with me because I got day drunk on the Wine in Front of Me. So Sapph, the reason the seer reveal bothers me is because it's such a not town thing that you'd have to be town to do it. But at the same time it brings no advantage to town. So I'm like, what was the point? There's no clear advantage to announcing it like that. So it's like, why do it? So does that mean that you saw it as such an obvious mistake that people wouldn't think you, as a more experienced players would make that mistake as a wolf? And how exactly did you know that the humans knew at that point? Did Doc take a fall to provide a human with an ironclad defense? The ultimate distancing?
Also, Hydra already died. Idk if you haven’t been reading the thread, or you attempting a fake derp clear, Anub.
I didn't really like it at first either, but ended up reading Sapph as villager because (I thought) it didn't offer the villagers any advantage, it seemed actively disadvantageous for a Human to do. And regardless, I don't think you can argue with the results.Anyone who is quoted gets a notification, or at least I do when I'm quoted.There's an option to turn of PM/email notifications, but that does it for both mentions and quotes I think.
I think I'll throw my vote on the Tau pile as well. For POE reasons.Not trying to be ultradefensive , but was TGN not a derp in most of his games? He was lynched , but flipped town. Minish mixed up all the events in the AoT game , flipped town. Also I am playing tow games , one in MU , so mixing up events is not a scum tendency. I asked for a seer scan D1 , D2 and did the same stuff not knowing that the seer was a goner yesterday. Had Doc been town , I potentially see you piling on Vro .
Vote: Taulover
I'm fairly convinced that Vro, Nyght and Sapph are town. Which leaves Taulover, BSR, TGN, and Anubhav I believe. Most of them I feel rather null about, although Anubhav feels slightly scummy based on the Hydra derp from last day phase. If Taulover is the wagon for the day, I'll get in on that.
Is that a WIFOM? @Sapphiron @BSRThank you for explaining your thought process to me. I'm still picking up bits and pieces here and there, so things like this aren't immediately obvious. I've only played one game before this and my strategy was "say as little as possible."Please bear with me because I got day drunk on the Wine in Front of Me. So Sapph, the reason the seer reveal bothers me is because it's such a not town thing that you'd have to be town to do it. But at the same time it brings no advantage to town. So I'm like, what was the point? There's no clear advantage to announcing it like that. So it's like, why do it? So does that mean that you saw it as such an obvious mistake that people wouldn't think you, as a more experienced players would make that mistake as a wolf? And how exactly did you know that the humans knew at that point? Did Doc take a fall to provide a human with an ironclad defense? The ultimate distancing?Once again, I have to reiterate that the Seer reveal is not too Wolf to be Wolf. That is literally Doc’s train of thought and he has already been exposed as a scum, and thereby his intentions are impure.
Could you perhaps explain the logic behind why you did that? Because I've seen you say that it isn't sus. But not why you did it to begin with. It would do wonders to clear you from my list. Thank you.
My intention at that time is one of distinct frustration at the utter lack of activity and by extension, interest left in the remaining players to solve the game after Lau and LOS left. As such, the best way to do so is to openly analyse Lau and LOS last words, seeing both are confirmed Town, with Lau clearly a Seer scan on first night and LOS one of the defenders. By putting this analysis and reveal out into the open, I want to secure at least 2 Town cores - Hydra, Vro - with the potential third defender being Doc (turns out LOS misread, and him putting him there is not mech clear but inference clear) or you. This is while focusing our remaining attention on the rest. I would also want to direct the remaining defender’s attention to defend Hydra, at the bare minimum secure us one more scan which is Doc and that is to our advantage. On the most manifestly observable level, it returned some degree of activity back into this game, and we managed to find Doc is a human.
My apologies if I came off as accusatory or aggressive.
I've got three towncore on my list at the moment, being Myself, Sapph, and Vro. Most other players are null besides Anub and Tau.
So, I'm now leaning towards Tau but I would like to hear a bit more from some others before I commit to a vote.
For the time being, I would like to have 2 wagons ready soSapph... Sapph please don't split the wagons. Frankly, I think tau should have been lynched instead of Gerrick, and if y'all let him escape for no good reason again and he turns out to be a human I will be sad. You had talked earlier about forming a town core slate that would vote as a team, whatever happened to that? If we lynch tau here, I may be wrong but at least we'll KNOW. Let's not risk a tie again, please. tau has always been at the bottom of my reads list, I was just trying to figure out who the other human might be. TGN I'm discounting for now because Doc and tau tried to push him in the phase Doc was lynched in, Anubhav I'm split upon, but I would vastly prefer to lynch tau first because I still see a world where Anubhav is a misguided townie. If tau is a townie, then sure lynch Anubhav, be my guest. If tau is a human, lynch BSR first, then Anubhav.
Vote: Anub
Also Vro would you like to explain further - how you changed from leaning against Anub and TGN to voting for tau currently?
Key phrase: "had Doc been town." Scum are perfectly capable of derping, because people derp. I believe Legacy and Nyght for instance didn't actually understand why Legacy was cleared in AoT, everyone derped by not noticing that the defender night list had a mistake, including myself. Scum are also capable of faking derps in order to be cleared by town.I think I'll throw my vote on the Tau pile as well. For POE reasons.Not trying to be ultradefensive , but was TGN not a derp in most of his games? He was lynched , but flipped town. Minish mixed up all the events in the AoT game , flipped town. Also I am playing tow games , one in MU , so mixing up events is not a scum tendency. I asked for a seer scan D1 , D2 and did the same stuff not knowing that the seer was a goner yesterday. Had Doc been town , I potentially see you piling on Vro .
Vote: Taulover
I'm fairly convinced that Vro, Nyght and Sapph are town. Which leaves Taulover, BSR, TGN, and Anubhav I believe. Most of them I feel rather null about, although Anubhav feels slightly scummy based on the Hydra derp from last day phase. If Taulover is the wagon for the day, I'll get in on that.
What you'll find I actually said was "I have no defense for any posts or actions made by ENE, as I am not ENE and do not speak for him. Therefore, I'm just going to try to make the most of my own posts." ENE and I are different, but I never said I shouldn't be judged from his actions. I just couldn't defend them, because they weren't my actions and it wasn't my thoughts that motivated them. I legitimately do not understand your point about overdefensiveness. Honestly, the better play if both Doc and I were humans would be for Doc or the other human to bus ME and be town-cleared for hopefully the rest of the game, there was no real benefit for me taking out a fellow human who was already deep in the town reads. You say you thought Lau was too humany to be a human, when Lau flipped town after saying explicitly that I am also town, in bold, what did you think?
Also recall how ENE pushed on Lau and LoS. I tunneled LAu , came to the conclusion that he was Too Wolfy to be Wolf. Never hit LoS. One of the first thing Vro does here after subbing in for ENE, is simply saying ENE is different and Vro must not be judged on ENE's work . There is no possible way that we mix Vro and ENE up , overlap the acts of two different players, and if that is not overdefensiveness then what is ? It genuinely felt like a scum's defense. I guess he just took Doc out to buy himself extra points as town, I see it as a bus, and a Doc probably wanted to sacrifice himself , to clear Vro's path, get placed into town core . Vro was fresher than most , town leader resigned , we lost a defender, and weighing all of it , it feels like Doc wanted to take the oppurtunity and frame one of the humans of his team as a town hero.
Vote:Vroendal
I have no idea what BSR is upto. If he turns out as wolf , I will not be dissatisfied for having not figured that out , coz he hardly spoke (and I hardly read)
Fair. My selective quoting was made under the assumption that it would only matter if you did have time to read and respond, I didn't mean for it to annoy you.Yeah see, I didn't have the time or energy, but the email pings mean I see it anyway, so it draws me in regardless even if I don't want it to.
The issue tau is that I think that unless you can provide us with a good alternative, we're (or at least I'm) going to be hung up on you until we either find the two humans or you flip (assuming you're town). I understand you say you are not getting any human reads, but if you are lynched today and you flip town, where would you like us to look next, and why? I'll accept gut reasoning as an answer for why, but if you convince me to go after someone else using more than that, that would be great. I'm willing to be convinced.I've given my thoughts before. They remain largely the same, but reiterating with some updated info.
I'm sorry what? I don't have any more information than any of the rest of us do. Of course my posts can only provide thoughts that anyone else could also theoretically provide. This seems like a meaningless claim, cast in a way that's trying to make it sound suspicious.You've been a consistent Null read for many people, making posts (including this last one) that although are good, don't really lead us anywhere, or states a take on the style.Or, if they do lead us anywhere they lead us to a place we've either already reached, or could reach by ourselves. Basically to me it feels like you're making safe posts instead of townie posts.
I was confused because I didn't know/remember what event you were referring to, so I had to look back at the posts. Yes, Doc did in fact vote for Sapph before literally anyone was pushing against me (and he didn't post afterward). Based on the existing read lists at the time, there were other far more likely wagons to occur. Much as with the previous quote, I think you're trying to fish for reasons to vote for me. It looks that might be warping your memory of what had happened in a way that fits with the narrative you've constructed in your head. Which you're then sticking to even when you yourself go back and check and realize that the memory was wrong.It could be argued that Doc was trying to save you for pushing on Sapph without making himself more obvious by pushing Gerrick.At the time of Doc's vote I guess he wouldn't really be trying to save you, but as I'm operating on the assumption that Sapph is town, the fact that Doc attacked only Sapph could indicate that he was leading the attention away from you, who was likely to become the only counter-wagon next to Gerrick.
The one where you pick a card, and that card is your role. Everyone closes their eyes for night and the narrator calls on the different power roles and they silently make their decisions. During day phase you argue and lie and lynch and do the whole mafia thing.One Night? The one with only one night and then one day/vote?
You had talked earlier about forming a town core slate that would vote as a team, whatever happened to that?Sapph talked about following the 2-3 people mechanically cleared by the seer. Unfortunately it looks like there's only one person, i.e. you, and perhaps he too is concerned that the line of reasoning that you're following isn't right.
Fair. My selective quoting was made under the assumption that it would only matter if you did have time to read and respond, I didn't mean for it to annoy you.Yeah see, I didn't have the time or energy, but the email pings mean I see it anyway, so it draws me in regardless even if I don't want it to.The issue tau is that I think that unless you can provide us with a good alternative, we're (or at least I'm) going to be hung up on you until we either find the two humans or you flip (assuming you're town). I understand you say you are not getting any human reads, but if you are lynched today and you flip town, where would you like us to look next, and why? I'll accept gut reasoning as an answer for why, but if you convince me to go after someone else using more than that, that would be great. I'm willing to be convinced.I've given my thoughts before. They remain largely the same, but reiterating with some updated info.
You (Vro) are mechanically cleared as far as I can tell. So is Nyght, I went back and reviewed Sapph's argument and LoS' post and it seems convincing to me for Nyght to be defender. Sapph's behavior makes me think he is a villager.
That leaves cozmik, Anubhav, Robin, TGN. Thoughts:
TGN still confuses me. And has been quiet recently so my thoughts haven't developed. As per usual, I don't think attacking inactive people for being inactive is very useful in a game that's supposed to be chill.
Robin has also been quiet. He seems legitimately busy to me; I was on the Minecraft server on Sunday (I think) and checked his activity and he hasn't been online in like a week despite stating his intent to return and start work on the Valeria project around the time this Werewolf game started.
This leaves cozmik and Anubhav. I have expressed my concerns about both of them already, in particular how their actions seem to have the effect of muddying the picture about what we already know mechanically. But at the same time it could be legitimate confusion (though the longer it goes on, e.g. Anub's posts today, the harder I find that to believe). So I will only add now that to me, Anub's consistent pushing against Vro could potentially be an attempt to drive suspicion against the known town leader.I'm sorry what? I don't have any more information than any of the rest of us do. Of course my posts can only provide thoughts that anyone else could also theoretically provide. This seems like a meaningless claim, cast in a way that's trying to make it sound suspicious.You've been a consistent Null read for many people, making posts (including this last one) that although are good, don't really lead us anywhere, or states a take on the style.Or, if they do lead us anywhere they lead us to a place we've either already reached, or could reach by ourselves. Basically to me it feels like you're making safe posts instead of townie posts.I was confused because I didn't know/remember what event you were referring to, so I had to look back at the posts. Yes, Doc did in fact vote for Sapph before literally anyone was pushing against me (and he didn't post afterward). Based on the existing read lists at the time, there were other far more likely wagons to occur. Much as with the previous quote, I think you're trying to fish for reasons to vote for me. It looks that might be warping your memory of what had happened in a way that fits with the narrative you've constructed in your head. Which you're then sticking to even when you yourself go back and check and realize that the memory was wrong.It could be argued that Doc was trying to save you for pushing on Sapph without making himself more obvious by pushing Gerrick.At the time of Doc's vote I guess he wouldn't really be trying to save you, but as I'm operating on the assumption that Sapph is town, the fact that Doc attacked only Sapph could indicate that he was leading the attention away from you, who was likely to become the only counter-wagon next to Gerrick.The one where you pick a card, and that card is your role. Everyone closes their eyes for night and the narrator calls on the different power roles and they silently make their decisions. During day phase you argue and lie and lynch and do the whole mafia thing.One Night? The one with only one night and then one day/vote?
I tried bringing ONUW to Wintreath once. People didn't take to it, and it made me realize how fundamentally different of a game it was. If you're talking about One Night, then I think some of your initial confusion may be more understandable.You had talked earlier about forming a town core slate that would vote as a team, whatever happened to that?Sapph talked about following the 2-3 people mechanically cleared by the seer. Unfortunately it looks like there's only one person, i.e. you, and perhaps he too is concerned that the line of reasoning that you're following isn't right.
Can someone explain how Nyght is mechanically cleared? I think I missed that concept.It's similar to but perhaps not as convincing as the argument for Vro/Hydra as seer army. I think Sapph's line of reasoning was that LoS put Nyght, Lau, and Doc as town core his final readlist. IIRC, people early on were saying that defenders should put each other in their town cores. Lau was a normal villager, Doc was a Human, so by process of elimination Nyght is probably defender.
Key phrase: "had Doc been town." Scum are perfectly capable of derping, because people derp. I believe Legacy and Nyght for instance didn't actually understand why Legacy was cleared in AoT, everyone derped by not noticing that the defender night list had a mistake, including myself. Scum are also capable of faking derps in order to be cleared by town.I think I'll throw my vote on the Tau pile as well. For POE reasons.Not trying to be ultradefensive , but was TGN not a derp in most of his games? He was lynched , but flipped town. Minish mixed up all the events in the AoT game , flipped town. Also I am playing tow games , one in MU , so mixing up events is not a scum tendency. I asked for a seer scan D1 , D2 and did the same stuff not knowing that the seer was a goner yesterday. Had Doc been town , I potentially see you piling on Vro .
Vote: Taulover
I'm fairly convinced that Vro, Nyght and Sapph are town. Which leaves Taulover, BSR, TGN, and Anubhav I believe. Most of them I feel rather null about, although Anubhav feels slightly scummy based on the Hydra derp from last day phase. If Taulover is the wagon for the day, I'll get in on that.What you'll find I actually said was "I have no defense for any posts or actions made by ENE, as I am not ENE and do not speak for him. Therefore, I'm just going to try to make the most of my own posts." ENE and I are different, but I never said I shouldn't be judged from his actions. I just couldn't defend them, because they weren't my actions and it wasn't my thoughts that motivated them. I legitimately do not understand your point about overdefensiveness. Honestly, the better play if both Doc and I were humans would be for Doc or the other human to bus ME and be town-cleared for hopefully the rest of the game, there was no real benefit for me taking out a fellow human who was already deep in the town reads. You say you thought Lau was too humany to be a human, when Lau flipped town after saying explicitly that I am also town, in bold, what did you think?
Also recall how ENE pushed on Lau and LoS. I tunneled LAu , came to the conclusion that he was Too Wolfy to be Wolf. Never hit LoS. One of the first thing Vro does here after subbing in for ENE, is simply saying ENE is different and Vro must not be judged on ENE's work . There is no possible way that we mix Vro and ENE up , overlap the acts of two different players, and if that is not overdefensiveness then what is ? It genuinely felt like a scum's defense. I guess he just took Doc out to buy himself extra points as town, I see it as a bus, and a Doc probably wanted to sacrifice himself , to clear Vro's path, get placed into town core . Vro was fresher than most , town leader resigned , we lost a defender, and weighing all of it , it feels like Doc wanted to take the oppurtunity and frame one of the humans of his team as a town hero.
Vote:Vroendal
I have no idea what BSR is upto. If he turns out as wolf , I will not be dissatisfied for having not figured that out , coz he hardly spoke (and I hardly read)
(Also where's the spoiler button in this? Do I just have to type the bracketed command now?)
Ohh... I was unaware that you've set up pings to your email tau, I shall refrain from continuing with that then. I did it because I considered that you would only see notifications on the forum at the times when you were willing to check the forum either for Werewolf, Minecraft, or etc, I didn't know that it might interfere with your personal life.I thought it was just on by default, but it's been five years, idk. When the forums were still the main community hub it was good to be notified of the going-ons, and now it's still useful when I go inactive from Wintreath for a bit and need to be called back for things.
Yeah, at the time of this post my thoughts were all getting jumbled together in my head and they didn't come out well. Time to explain better. The players more likely than others to become a wagon since the start of the day onward were Gerrick from Legacy's list, then Sapph from Anubhav's, Hydra from Gerrick's list, then you from my list. (BSR I'm counting as too highly town-read to have been considered a good possible push from either perspective of his alignment.) With the knowledge that Gerrick was townie, Doc was a wolf, and the strong possibility that Sapph is a town, looking at the situation from Doc's perspective, he sees that beyond Gerrick being a main wagon, there are three more options, with a vote already on Sapph and Hydra. He pushes on Sapph hard for a comment he made (which I think indicates that Sapph is a townie). If Sapph is town, this action serves the double-purpose of attempting to lynch a townie Doc thought could be seen as suspicious while avoiding the main wagon on Gerrick, but also focusing more attention on a specific secondary wagon, drawing attention away from you. In regards to reads lists, Legacy listed you below Sapph in his list. Though Gerrick places you above Sapph, he said that of Hydra or you, one was likely to be scum. Hydra was a wagon, sure, but based on Lau's reads list he was unlikely to be lynched, leaving you as the only other true possibility besides Gerrick and Sapph. I think you were looking like a real possibility still and Doc's push on Sapph worked against that, which implicates you. You were also a lynch possibility clearly because both Gerrick and I felt like pushing you over anyone else at a later point. I reject your claim, I still think you were the only other real possibility besides Gerrick and Sapph, there were no far more likely wagons to occur. The options had been set. Doc's vote drew attention away from you.After rereading your thoughts and the relevant posts a few times, I think I understand your reasoning now. That said, it's so convoluted that I can't realistically imagine that actually going through Doc's head when he made the rather quick reaction to Sapph's outing of you/Hydra. I think that, even regardless of my alignment, drawing attention away from a potential third wagon feels like a major stretch as a likely motivation. I think it's far simpler and more likely that he just saw Sapph's behavior as something inherently suspicious which he could take advantage of. Doc's argument clearly was very persuasive, since people were repeating his talking points even after he died.
One could argue that I'm fishing for reasons, I think I'm just investigating. I should have double-checked to make a clearer argument, I didn't realize that I would be gone so long before EoD and that's my own fault. However, I do think my propositions and personal PoE have substance with supporting reasoning.
What do you propose that I do right now, tau? To win, I feel like I have to be doing something, you don't want me to lynch you, that works against you as either alignment, so what then? You have yet to make a vote, I'm not quite seeing desire to progress or solve the game from you, and that's mainly the reason I keep coming back to you.What do you want me to do? Why would I vote when a majority of players are already on my wagon (4, including Sapph, minus inactives)? You keep insisting that I'm not contributing enough, when I'm providing all the thoughts I have, and then what thoughts I do provide are dismissed as extraneous.
Well uh, I hate to do this but blatant self-preservation vote lmaoThat is very fair. I would do that as town too. The only problem is that if you're just a normal townie and you realize your lynch will dramatically shift town closer to winning by closing the PoE, with one of the towniest people (we don't know who yet) guaranteed to die tonight, it's actually to the benefit of your town team to let yourself be lynched here. The fact that you're voting with BSR against me at the last minute isn't helping matters either.
Vote: Make Vroendal Leave
Reasoning: lynch town is worse than no lynch
I'll have to take a second to look back at my own posts because I don't exactly remember the deflecting/directing comment off the top of my head. I though I had said that about another player.Alright, please do check back.
As far as my town core on him, it was because his strategy at the beginning seemed quite sound and we'll thought out. I'll get back to this when I get home from work.
May I ask what you mean about the humans only being amongst me? I'm a bit confused on your wording.
Skip: VoteEIWOP
I can skip once right?
But Vro why would either of us be stupid enough to be outed as humans coincidentally? You haven't riddled me that.He has been cleared by Lau, who has been cleared by Hydra. That suggest mech clear by Seer.
How was I in any way connected to the other wolf? And going from that thread, why are you only suddenly trying to take control of the game and narrative now? What changed to give you that sudden desire to control the narrative?
But Vro why would either of us be stupid enough to be outed as humans coincidentally? You haven't riddled me that.One could argue that it's because you think that since you're in the PoE anyway, you might as well try to survive as long as possible.
How was I in any way connected to the other wolf? And going from that thread, why are you only suddenly trying to take control of the game and narrative now? What changed to give you that sudden desire to control the narrative?
okay I am not letting Vro die,Tie wouldn't lead to Vro dying tho
Vote: taulover
okay I am not letting Vro die,Tie wouldn't lead to Vro dying tho
Vote: taulover
No, but if we don't lynch a wolf he's probably toast
If you remember your line of thinking at that point, would you be able to elaborate on the bolded line, tau?tau and Sapph, who do you think the human team is? You don't have to be sure, you don't have to be right, just state three names.If I'm being completely honest I'm not really reading anyone as Human particularly, I mostly just have people I think are villagers, and the remaining people being null reads.
So (these are not in any particular order, mostly just ordered by going down through the player list in the OP):
Seem to be villager based on behavior: Doc, Sapph
Seemingly mechanically cleared: Vroendal, Hydra
Null: cozmik, Nyght (Sapph has made interesting mechanical arguments for Nyght as defender but I haven't taken the time to think about it), TGN, Gerrick, Anubhav, Robin
I haven't liked arguments made by NyghtOwl and Gerrick, but that's NAI.
Hydra's and Robin's behaviors seem in line with the "old people who are busy" crowd. Something similar might also apply to cozmik, but I'm not familiar with her at all. Also the last-minute Gerrick vote was weird, especially after mechanically presumed villager (i.e. Vroendal) insisted that everyone vote for me. But that could just be chalked down to not thinking through Sapph's Hydra/Vroendal argument, since cozmik seems possibly busy.
As stated in previous days, TGN's behavior and writing style just confuse me.
Huh. Sorry got super bummed out about the game once LoS and Lau left. :'(Do you have thoughts at this time you would like to share?
Umm... I'll vote: TGN to get him to analyze and also to avoid inactivity lynch.
I'll also hopefully be available later in the week for actual analysis and stuff too :)
I'll have to take a second to look back at my own posts because I don't exactly remember the deflecting/directing comment off the top of my head. I though I had said that about another player.Are you able to branch out on your reasoning on the deflecting/directing comment?
As far as my town core on him, it was because his strategy at the beginning seemed quite sound and we'll thought out. I'll get back to this when I get home from work.
May I ask what you mean about the humans only being amongst me? I'm a bit confused on your wording.
I assume you're curious about the Nyght part, which I do vaguely remember, but for completeness' sake I'll also cover Gerrick first. Went back and checked, I was disagreeing with Gerrick's reasoning on how Michi must have picked out the older more inactive players (in particular, me and Hydra) to be the Humans. I didn't think it was good reasoning because if the roles were curated, it would make more sense to be nice to those players with less time and give them powerless town roles accordingly. Of course, that point was moot because Michi confirmed that roles were fully randomized.I haven't liked arguments made by NyghtOwl and Gerrick, but that's NAI.If you remember your line of thinking at that point, would you be able to elaborate on the bolded line, tau?
People consider me a good player AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Well, I'll at least try not to disappoint you.
So here's the thing. We don't THINK you're a good player. We know you are. Which is why this kinda post comes off hella sus at the moment. And I think that's why I've got you on my scumreads at the moment.I say this with a great deal of hesitancy but I will also Vote Legacy of Smiles.I get a feeling that it's more a big fish in a big pond moved into a much smaller pond and the feelings of inadequacy carry over from the big pond. It seems like a natural reaction to me, not really anything suspicious.
I say hesitant because, while his whole, "shucks I'm not that good" statement earlier rang hella suspicious to me and I feel like his playstyle this game is just different enough from last time to be a mask, I know if he flips town I'm shooting myself in the foot because Doc is gonna be on my ass as he mentioned earlier if one of us is town the other is likely a wolf. That being said there's been a lot of deflection without any real direction coming from him.
It takes a certain mindset and situation to embrace the fact that you're actually good at a thing. For me personally for instance, in RL situations my instinctual reaction to any compliment is to profusely deny it. Given LoS' background and situation I am personally unsurprised at his response to being considered a powerful player.
For once I trust Vro , henceWhy BSR?
Vote:BSR
My guess would be BSR's general lurkiness. But it's not really a solid tell. I'm curious as to why you've suddenly hopped on me as a possibility. I get that it seems odd, the timing of my role reveal(or lack thereof). However, I have been actively trying to root out what suspicious activity I can using my limited knowledge of the game.I suspected cozmik to be the final defender since before I subbed in. While Legacy put you high in his read lists, you started off putting him low and actually made a push on him, the nature of your push did not indicate to me that you were a pair. Cozmik on the other hand was both put high in reads lists by Legacy and put Legacy high in reads lists herself, making me think they were the most likely to be paired. Granting that, I've had you as a possibility for a while now via PoE and doubt, but in the interest of confusing the humans with Sapph's theory I didn't make it clear until cozmik had defended one more player.
Do you have any reason to suspect me? Is there any behaviour which has struck a nerve that I might be able to explain? And is there anything that I can do to help with said rooting out of humans?
Yeah, mostly that I'm not entirely sure why tau is garnering so much suspicion. I don't really think that's reasonable, hence why I definitely support keeping him around. It seems far too convenient to cast him as a wolf, when we have other candidates for suspicion, including yourself (for domineering and such) and Nyght (just for generally behaving similarly to last game).Huh. Sorry got super bummed out about the game once LoS and Lau left. :'(Do you have thoughts at this time you would like to share?
Umm... I'll vote: TGN to get him to analyze and also to avoid inactivity lynch.
I'll also hopefully be available later in the week for actual analysis and stuff too :)
Yeah, mostly that I'm not entirely sure why tau is garnering so much suspicion. I don't really think that's reasonable, hence why I definitely support keeping him around. It seems far too convenient to cast him as a wolf, when we have other candidates for suspicion, including yourself (for domineering and such) and Nyght (just for generally behaving similarly to last game).Trying to prompt discussions is a good thing I'd say, domineering doesn't have to be a bad thing, I pushed against cozmik from being lynched multiple times for one, which definitely worked in our favor for the moment. Would you be able to describe how Nyght has been acting similarly to last game? I've actually thought he was acting differently, having more active participance and a general different feel. Legacy also had what I thought was a pretty good analysis of Nyght starting off, leading Legacy to town-core read Nyght.
Consequently, I'm far more comfortable with a Nyght lynch than a tau one, because the tau one seems WAY too convenient. And if there's anything that the last game has taught us, it's that convenience and surface analysis usually is the friend of the wolves (or in this case, the humans). That being said, I'm not particularly invested again, as I said, because no Lau/LoS, but alas.
So, if people agree with me, I'll go Vote: Nyght
I'm just really not seeing the tau stuff. Especially because Colby was clear. So... why is tau suspicious?
There's 3 humans total, so be sure to get rid of them before they decide to gang up and beat the hell out of all of you.I'm assuming that since the OP has stated there are 3 humans total and Doc and TGN are gone, the 2 Humans is merely a slight oversight, but maybe it would be good to get that checked because my view of the game will be dramatically changed if there are in fact 2 humans remaining.
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Roles:
2 Humans
4 Wolf Buds
OH WAIT... I'm dumb, I got confused by TGN being a "Wolf Bud" I feel stupid now, feel free to mock me. Alright I'm back to thinking it's tau and BSR. :pThere's 3 humans total, so be sure to get rid of them before they decide to gang up and beat the hell out of all of you.I'm assuming that since the OP has stated there are 3 humans total and Doc and TGN are gone, the 2 Humans is merely a slight oversight, but maybe it would be good to get that checked because my view of the game will be dramatically changed if there are in fact 2 humans remaining.
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Roles:
2 Humans
4 Wolf Buds
So I'm really confused by your analysis. Last game I did my best to keep quiet and make posts that were as vapid as possible outside of my first post day 1. I've been coming in each day and checking in. I've explained the reasons behind my thinking(flawed though it may have been.)Yeah, mostly that I'm not entirely sure why tau is garnering so much suspicion. I don't really think that's reasonable, hence why I definitely support keeping him around. It seems far too convenient to cast him as a wolf, when we have other candidates for suspicion, including yourself (for domineering and such) and Nyght (just for generally behaving similarly to last game).Huh. Sorry got super bummed out about the game once LoS and Lau left. :'(Do you have thoughts at this time you would like to share?
Umm... I'll vote: TGN to get him to analyze and also to avoid inactivity lynch.
I'll also hopefully be available later in the week for actual analysis and stuff too :)
Consequently, I'm far more comfortable with a Nyght lynch than a tau one, because the tau one seems WAY too convenient. And if there's anything that the last game has taught us, it's that convenience and surface analysis usually is the friend of the wolves (or in this case, the humans). That being said, I'm not particularly invested again, as I said, because no Lau/LoS, but alas.
So, if people agree with me, I'll go Vote: Nyght
I'm just really not seeing the tau stuff. Especially because Colby was clear. So... why is tau suspicious?
If anyone's up for a flash , I think we should make Sapph the wagon in that case. Throughout the game , he found tunnels , and supported his gun on someone else's shoulder. He has been a hideous sheep.I would join you, but I think the round has already ended as of 2.5 hours ago. Michi doesn't count votes after the deadline.
And not gonna lie , u always seemed suspicious Vro and I have ENE to blame in this case. If you turn out to be scum , who rubbed sand in our eyes , definitely it will not be much surprising. But with this level of activity , it seems impossible. Also the fact that Vro and Sapph switched votes just because I hit BSR(and also provided no reason) seems scummy to me
@Vroendal that message was more for youThis statement might have gone under the radar , but a wolf would obviously try subduing Nyght now.
Tau, who should I be voting today instead of you, and why?
However I am much inclined it to be either Vro/Sapph , because this is the best time for wolf to take out the top villager. Again , tau wouldn't possibly do that and draw suspicion. However the hard claim of Nyght not being a defender , was initiated by VroI don't think it's Vroendal because I think the evidence for Vro being on Hydra's seer army along with Laurentus is just too strong. Honestly, I still find Anubhav suspicious for not getting this in past rounds. (Then again, it's been a while since I've reviewed the evidence, perhaps it wasn't as strong as I thought, considering I was also convinced about Sapph's claim about Nyght.) I'm not sure about the day 1 seer check argument, I'm not used to games where people straight-up explicitly ask the seer to scan them so I'm not sure how to interpret that, alignment-wise.
Tau tried to build a wagon with Vro on it , do you think Vro that BSR and Tau will try to stay on the same wagon against you, if they are scumbuds, given their experience. Tau seems clear given this PoVAs I have stated repeatedly, I firmly believe (or at least believed at the time) that Vroendal was confirmed town. My vote was purely to avoid the mislynch on myself, it was literally right before the end of the day phase, there was no chance of actually killing Vro.
Well uh, I hate to do this but blatant self-preservation vote lmao
Vote: Make Vroendal Leave
Reasoning: lynch town is worse than no lynch
okay I am not letting Vro die,Tie wouldn't lead to Vro dying tho
Vote: taulover
I think that 95% of the time here the remaining human is tau. I want to hear him out first though in the interest of the 5%.Tau seems most reasonable as well. One last thing , do you think the last night, in which there was no-kill, on that night the defender defended you , and you were the one humans targetted?
I don't quite understand your point with the top villager, judging that I don't think there's a point where tau has been town-read by anyone, the top villager would be either Sapph or me, in your scenario of one of us being the remaining human. I don't think it's Sapph at this point in light of the way Doc attacked him in the phase Gerrick was lynched in, read back and look at it.
I don't think Sapph's voting times have followed any specifically notable pattern, he's pushed plenty of players independently from what I can recall.
I don't want to be hasty in cases where votes are locked, if you vote tau now that's fine, I think it's the correct choice. If I get a big revelation I can always vote with tau to make a tie and we wouldn't lose in the night phase.
You were actually the one to form the wagon on me, tau was the last to join it. I think tau's vote against me was motivated by his interest to remain alive and not because he claimed to suspect me, the purpose seemed to be to form a tie for No Lynch, ensuring tau's survival. So no this wouldn't clear tau, and in fact the two human buddies voting together to try and keep a human alive for another day phase would make sense so that actually incriminates tau.
Because I am putting it out there the only person the human will logically kill is Vro, our only confirmed town. Ends up with Anub, Tau and me and there’s bound to be suspicion three way. This is the last phase to win, period.The fact that Vro is still alive , while cozmik died is the only issue. I mean certainly , a defender cannot protect his target twice. So why not pick the most cleared town leader guy again , instead of the defender. But its of no use now, what's done cannot be undone here, so we can just hope Tau turns out Human , the most logical option.
I was curious how you all had decided on NyghtTo first question, LOS left Nyght, Doc and Lau in town core. Doc was misread, so I misinterpreted the last one as his defender buddy.
@Vroendal at one point you asked me if I thought Nyght was defender, was that you feeling out whether it was me?